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 Post subject: Some "Ugly Americans"
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 10:50 am 
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From this mornings Inside Costa Rica.


Two Americans Detained For Paying a Minor for Sex
Officers of the Organismo de Investigación Judicial (OIJ) de Quepos, working with officers of the Sección de Delitos Sexuales detained two American men at the Herradura hotel west of San José, suspected of having paid for sexual relations with minors.

The two men were identified only by their last names, Lewis and Wischta, 25 and 26 years of age respectively.

The detention was a result of an investigation begun last Sunday when a 15 year old girl in Quepos told police (the OIJ) she was approached by two men who offered her a great deal of money to accompany them to a hotel in Manuel Antonio.

Once the hotel, the girl said, there was a "personal" discussion between her and the men and decided to go to police and make a formal complaint

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:13 pm 
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Alot of questions pop up in my mind based on this article. Did they indeed pay, or was it just discussed? Also, did they indeed know this girl was only 15? I have seen some 15 yr olds here that look older than alot of the Delrey pros. My point is, I think anyone who knowingly solicits a minor for sex should have the book thrown at them. BUT...there are known instances where underaged women (and men) are out in the street propositioning sex for pay. WHile it is obvious the law puts the onus on adults to verify they are not a minor...you cant always ASSUME these were ugly AMericans preying knowingly on minors. Sure it happens...but there are lots of "setups" in this country also. Let the "buyer" beware... These guys were in their mid 20s? THere are marriages going on here between men older than that and minors with consent. I'm not condoning...but just looking for balance of reporting.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 3:24 pm 
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TMan wrote:

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I'm not condoning...but just looking for balance of reporting.


I fail to see how the reporting was unbalanced. The newspaper reported what the police allege. They did not make any assertion that this was the only side of the story and the men arrested were guilty.

Obviously we have only one side of the story but unfortunately that is the side that will make the headlines and be remembered. Fair? No, but that happens in news stories everyday. Even on networks that boast of fair and balanced reporting.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 3:52 pm 
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If these guys knowingly propositioned an und***ge girl and paid her for sex as this story suggests, then it goes without saying they deserve whatever happens to them. Anyone who has read my posts or the introduction to my website knows I come down as hard as anyone on any jerk that exploits Ch*ldren. If that is what happened here, I don't want to appear to in any way excuse these guys. However, but I have to agree with TMan that some aspects of this story just strike me as kinda fishy. At the very least there may be some lessons for us here.

The 1st big lesson is that propositioning girls on the street, who at best appear of questionable age, is a risk that is just not worth taking. As TMan pointed out there are young girls who look older than 18 and there are also 20 year olds that look younger. Unless you're with a women that is clearly well past that 18 mark, you can never be completely sure. Only picking up girls that are allowed in bars or work in MP's at least provides some greater assurance, since presumably mosts bar owner safeguard against that sort of activity occurring in their business for their own legal protection if not for yours. Personally checking their ID's before paying them anything provides even better assurance.

That brings me to the 2nd big lesson. We all know we should pay them to leave, ie after sex. Certainly we wouldn't pay them before we even got up to the room (and after the ID check in the lobby). These guys are accused of paying this girl for sex, not simply propositioning her, and yet they never made it past the lobby. Could they really have made such a rookie mistake? Possibly.

This series of events may have happened just as the girl described, but here is what I think happened. Was SHE approached or did she approach THEM? Not that that matters much since, in any case, the guys propositioned her or took her up on her offer. Did they know she was und***ge? Maybe or maybe not. Maybe they should have at least suspected. But if they knew or suspected, what did they think was going to happen when they brought her back to the hotel? Maybe they didn't know hotels check ID's or maybe they did but didn't consider the possibility the girl's ID wouldn't check out. At the very least, if the girl was obviously und***ge they'd have realized it would raise a lot of eyebrows trying to march her through the hotel lobby. This analysis by itself suggests to me that these guys probably didn't know she was und***ge or at least didn't stop to think about it and were guilty of stupidity more than anything else.

What happened next? They brought her back to the hotel and when it came time to check her in discovered they had a problem. Either they didn't realize her ID would be checked or they were really innocent and had genuinely thought she was legal. In either event, at that point they now knew with certainty she was a minor and they would not be able to take her up their room.

So why did they pay her? Did they really pay her in advance for the sex they thought they would be getting in the room? Seems less likely to me. Much more likely was that they were paying her off for her inconvenience and as hush money not to complain about the mistake they had made picking her up? I think the "discussion" was how much was it going to take to keep her quiet.

She told the police SHE was approached and that there was a "personal" discussion between her and the men before she decided to go to police and make a formal complaint? That makes it sound like she simply changed her mind about prostituting herself and just decided to do the right thing and report them. I don't think this girl was innocent as she makes it out. This was not just some church girl. Whether they approached her or she approached them, she knew what they thought she was going to do for them back at the room.

Did they give her any money. If not and they simply made the mistake of misjudging her age and offering her money but did not follow through for whatever reason, do they really deserve to be locked up as Ch*ld molesters? If they paid her money but it was to keep her quiet, then she was basically blackmailing them and depicting herself as a complete innocent in this affair is not altogether accurate either.

I know these guys definitely made a huge mistake that they deserve to pay some sort of price for. But of all the parties involved the one person you can say with certainty that knew the girl wasn't legal was the girl herself. I don't think this girl was some wide-eye innocent. She knew what she was doing all along and deliberately played on these guy's stupidity. She probably knew she'd never make it to the room and had blackmail in mind from the very beginning. I think TMan was absolutely correct. Can you say SETUP.

The lessons:
    1) Don't proposition girls on the street - bars, MP's and clubs are safer and don't cost much more. Getting caught with a minor is just one of the added risks you run.

    2) Picking up non-pros are a slightly different case, but then normally you might offer dinner but not money with them anyway. Still its probably best to avoid any borderline non-pro chicas as well,. You never know when you might find yourself in "he said-she said" situation.

    3) Unless the girl is clearly in her 20's or above, always check ID's, particularly before you proposition girls you meet on the streets, but also before you take any border-line girl back to your room.

    4) Don't try to circumvent hotel security or chica fees. Its a small price to pay for an added level of protection. Or if you do sneak around realize that you're on your own.

    5) Always pay at the end, never before. If you're stupid enough to get caught in a compromising position, don't figure any amount of hush money is going to get you out of it.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:23 pm 
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Ding Dong wrote:
...Once the hotel, the girl said, there was a "personal" discussion between her and the men and decided to go to police and make a formal complaint


Did anybody else notice how she agreed to go to the hotel with them, then after their "discussion" decided to go to the police?

It sounds like a setup to me. Not by the police. Seems like this chick was trying to get a nice payday, then after they talked at the hotel (about money I assume) she decided to instead go report it to the cops.

I hope my point doesn't come across wrong (as if I condone this type of behavior) but this girl didn't seem to have a problem with it until after their "discussion". Could she have been trying to blackmail these two idiots?

-Orange


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:55 pm 
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Prolijo wrote:

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They brought her back to the hotel and when it came time to check her in discovered they had a problem. Either they didn't realize her ID would be checked or they were really innocent and had genuinely thought she was legal. In either event, at that point they now knew with certainty she was a minor and they would not be able to take her up their room.


Quote:
These guys are accused of paying this girl for sex, not simply propositioning her, and yet they never made it past the lobby. Could they really have made such a rookie mistake?


Where does any of that information appear in the article?

They met her last Sunday in Quepos and took her back to their hotel in Manual Antonio. They were arrested presumably on Thursday or Friday at the Hotel Herdura west of San Jose.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 5:20 am 
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Quote:
I have seen some 15 yr olds here that look older than alot of the Delrey pros.
Some say that Ch*ldren who are sexually abused do age more rapidly since their innocence has been stolen.

Dildo Man


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 Post subject: ugly
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:58 pm 
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Why are we using this forum for the discussion of under age sex? Guidelines Article 1A. SEAHAWK

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 4:30 pm 
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Guidelines Article 1A:

1.A Any person who in any way shape or from attempts to discuss, promote, or receive information regarding illegal activities as it relates to minors will be banished immediately. Furthermore this person will be reported to the Costa Rican Authorities!!!!!!!!



I fail to see how anything posted in this thread violates that guideline either in actual content or implied content.


Admins, please delete this entire thread if we have unwittingly violated any CRT guidelines as any violation was unintentional.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 5:55 pm 
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YO Fellows:

QUESTION. Can anyone point me to an article written as to where other nationalities (names of individuals) including CR Ticos have been charged with und***ge exploration. I'm sure there are but it just seems like they mostly report about sick gringos. Anyone that practives this crap should be put on the public square.....and hung.....I would purchase tickets.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 10:00 pm 
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Ding Dong wrote:
Where does any of that information appear in the article?


First of all the title of the article was "Two Americans Detained For Paying a Minor for Sex" not "Two Americans Detained For Sex With a Minor". In CR, if they had sex with a minor it doesn't matter if it was even paid/free or consensual/forced. If they had actually sex it would be Statutory Rape or what they call "Corruption". Article 167 of their penal code says: "Three to eight years prision time shall be applied to whoever should promote the corruption of a person under sixteen years of age, by means of sexual acts of a perverse, premature or excessive nature, even if the victim should consent to participation or witnessing."

The article also said "Once the hotel, the girl said, there was a "personal" discussion between her and the men". If sex had taken place what would be the relevance of a "discussion"? Why not just "After going to the hotel, she decided to go to the police"?

If money did in fact change hands like the story itself states and if no sex had at that point transpired, which I inferred, those guys WOULD have been making a rookie mistake. This time I quote from Article 1 of the monger code which says "we don't pay for sex, we pay them to leave" meaning pay after sex, not before. Of course, they may indeed have been paying her to leave (without any sex), because she was renegotiating or because they realized she was und***ge and decided they didn't want to get caught with her. There could have been any number of reasons. That issue doesn't really impact whether they made a stupid mistake. In the end they did get caught, so even if it was just hush money it did them no good and may have done them some hard since they're now charged with paying.

Lastly, I assumed the issue came to a head in the lobby for a few reasons. I'll grant that inference may have less validity than my other ones. However, most hotels check cedulas before allowing gringos to bring any chicas back to their rooms. Presumably this would be even more likely if the chica were of a questionable age. I suppose the discussion could have occurred in the room. Maybe they all walked all the way back to the hotel and up to the room and then either they or the girl suddenly had 2nd thoughts or tried to renegotiate the "contract". It just seemed to me that having to come up with an ID was more likely to have been what brought everything to a head.

Of course, even if the discussion did occur in the room, it has no real bearing on the basic thrust of my argument. Did any sex actually occur? Who was it that had 2nd thoughts? What was the money really for? etc. DD even admits that all we have here is "only one side of the story". This article at the very least raises more questions than it answers. If these guys really "corrupted" this girl (and that very well might be the case) they deserve at LEAST 3-8 years in jail if not the public hanging that Circus suggested. But it would certainly be easy enough for a girl to make a formal complaint for reasons such as those suggested above, particularly if the accused is stupid enough to put themselves in a compromising position. Personally, I think that probably both sides are guilty. These guys knew or should have known she was und***ge and went ahead anyway and she took advantage of that. None of us really know based just on this vague article so we should not rush to judge.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:51 am 
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Quote:
Where does any of that information appear in the article?


Very simple question where did that appear in the newspaper article?

Inquiry minds would like to know. :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 1:57 am 
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Quote:
In CR, if they had sex with a minor it doesn't matter if it was even paid/free or consensual/forced. If they had actually sex it would be Statutory Rape or what they call "Corruption"


I have talked to many Ticas working at HDR and massage parlors, and I have realized that most of them had K*ds when they were und***ge. The fathers (Ticos) never went to jail, heck they don't even pay for alimony.

Dildo Man


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:31 am 
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Ding Dong wrote:
Very simple question where did that appear in the newspaper article?
Very simple answer, duh, in the title. What's your point?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:54 pm 
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Did not realize you would not be able to understand the question so I will elaborate.

Projilo wrote:
Quote:
These guys are accused of paying this girl for sex, not simply propositioning her, and yet they never made it past the lobby.


That is either pure supposition on your part or you have access to information not in the article.

Projilo wrote:
Quote:
They brought her back to the hotel and when it came time to check her in discovered they had a problem


Another point not mentioned in the article.

I have no problem with anyone voicing what they assume the situation might have been. My objection to your post was that you made assumptions, or had inside knowledge that you did not reveal to back up those statements, and then posted them as fact instead of qualifying your comments.

I am not going to get into a long wrangle with you over this or anything else. If you are offended by any of my comments I apologize in advance and will not post anything further on this matter. Pura Vida.

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