www.CostaRicaTicas.com

RHM,
It was not meant to be an argumentative question or a slight on anyone here. It WAS meant as a rhetorical question. Obviously, its not fair to say that one is bad and the other is good. The point is that most of us make moral compromises. We don't like it when straight people in the US cast moral judgements on us. Unless we want that, we shouldn't cast moral judgement on others (as long as our actions are between consenting adults and do not directly harm another person). The only possible harm would be if the husband finds out, but no more so than if our wives, girlfriends, employers or friends back in the US find out about what we do. The only real difference between this case and what we do in CR, is that we are breaking promises made to our wives, whereas subatomic is made no promises and owes nothing to this guy other than some vague unwritten male code.

I would rather tell my parents who taught me morals that I go to CR to release steam to save my marriage and keep my sanity than I screwed a married woman simply because I could. Everyone should have some level of morals.

Dave

Dave,
That still sounds like rationalization to me. Although it may not be your motivation for doing it, maybe by screwing this married woman you're helping her release steam to save HER marriage and helping her keep HER sanity. And to be fair do you think the married guys going to CR, really have saving their marriages on their minds or just getting their rocks off with hot chicas? And do you really think, lying to your wife and going someplace to screw a bunch of prostitutes is the best way to save a marriage? We could go around like this all day.

You have now stated the difference between what Subatomic did and what the mongerers do in Costa Rica. In Costa Rica, the girls make themselves available, for pay, for us to let off steam and, perhaps, save our sanity and marriage. Subatomic had no idea of the her motivation whatsoever. Again, you are guessng. And, I absolutely believe that many of these gentlemen here would not be in their present relationship or have the sanity that they have if they did not have the opportunity to let off steam. Come on, it only makes sense. You are not getting p*ssy at home and you go elsewhere to get it. This allows you to put up with not getting it at home. If you could not get it anywhere, I am sure many here would leave their relationships. May not be the best way but it does work for many.

Better with a professional than the girl next door or a co-worker. Too close to home.

I will also venture to say that many wives would not want to know about it and would be happy with it if it enabled them to stay in their relationships. Sometimes, not knowing certain things is better than knowing.

Dave
Dave

Just who is doing the guessing here? How do you know the wives wouldn't want to know or would be happy about it if they were kept in the dark? How do you know that wife DIDN'T have the exact same motivation of letting off steam or saving her sanity or marriage. More importantly, what is the bigger issue, their unknown motivations or what really motivates us. This wife clearly made her own decision for WHATEVER reason. Subatomic wasn't luring her into infidelity or preventing her from finding some other guy. And do you think it really matters to most wives whether the girls their husbands cheated with just did it for money?

I also think you are comparing different roles here. I did not mean to compare subatomic with what mongers do, at least not directly. What I was doing was comparing what mongers do with what that WIFE was doing (and saying it was basically the same thing or perhaps even slightly less immoral) and THEN comparing what she did with the comparatively innocent actions of subatomic who was not even a party to any marriage contract. Are you saying it is worse for a single to accept sex from a married women than for a married person to go out and have sex outside their marriage? Also, are you now saying it is somehow better to have indiscriminate sex with multitudes of relatively high risk prostitutes than to have an isolated affair with some guy off the street? Are you saying that if one really wants to save one's marriage it is better to lie to your spouse rather than try and work through the problems that are driving you towards cheating in the first place?

I definitely agree with you that "everyone should have some level of morals". I just think it is often hard if not impossible for one person to categorically define that for another. As "mongers" we should all be sensitive to this problem. There seem to ME to be plenty of inconsistencies in your own personal definition (as I've pointed out), but I wouldn't presume to say your choices are wrong for you.

My own personal guideline is a) all parties involved choose to involve themselves freely and b) no one gets harmed. It could be argued that the spouse (husband or wife) is indirectly involved or harmed, IF they find out. But you yourself created rationalizations that could justify that risk that could equally apply to either the male or the female involved in the infidelity. Drawing further distinctions and splitting more hairs would be just more rationalizing.

Prolijo,

Your questions have been answered in my responses. You just do not desire to accept my opinion. That is fine and I can accept that. You have a great day and have the morals that you want. I have stated my opinions and your throwing back at me the same thing in different terminology doesn't place your opinions above mine.

I will only say that I do not desire to be in the company of any person that does what Subatomic did. Or even those that feel what he did was proper. That certainly is my right.

Let it die. You will feel better. In my humble opinion.

Have a Great Day,

Dave

Prolijo, dave...

Sorry to interrupt your fascinating and well-thought dialogue. I will attempt to answer your question.

This is simply my own reason for playing outside the marital dyad. Before any moralists here decide to jump on me and call my reasoning "rationalization" or "making excuses," I'll just go ahead and accept that both characterizations might be correct, but only in part.

Why is it cool for mongers to monger and not cool for guys to bang other men's wives?

For me, I do indeed save my marriage by seeking outside sexual outlets. Just as there are many kinds of people, there are many kinds of marriages. I persoannly know three couples where the man is either impotent or disinterested in sex. In all cases, the couples want to perpetuate the dyad, but do not want to deprive the other partner. No one ever talks about the wives' infidelity, and no verbal permission has been granted, but the men tolerate their wives' infidelity, trusting their beloved to keep herself free from disease and emotional involvement.

In another case, a close friend gave his wife unspoken permission to screw around, simply because he understands that she is inherently polyandrous; one man simply isn't enough. He and she are fine with it.

Another couple with whom I am very close actually are completely honest with each other about unsatisfied needs, and have each other's explicit permission to "cheat."

Some marriages are non-sexual; the couple are fine with the situation, because friendship and a close business partnership are enough.

In my own case, and in my unique situation (which I won't reveal in full), my wife understnds that I need more than I can get at home. She trusts me to continue to love her, to keep faithful my promise to remain with her, and to protect her from unwanted complications (such as disease, pregnancy of another, etc.). Does she want to talk about it? Uh...no. Do I rub the situation in her face? Never. Do I screw around close to home, thus prompting gossip and perhaps, confrontations and anger? Never.

So before any of us judges the other, let us please remember that the intricate and intimate details of each marriage or permanent relationship are beyond our understanding and certainly beyond our moral judgements. And in fact, they're none of our phucking business. SubSonic came to this forum rather than a confessional; we should calmly listen as priests, and while stating our own moral truths gently reply...

"Te absolvo, te absolvo, te absolvo."

_________________
Pura Vulva! Wandering through the dark, I am El Ciego.

El Ciego,

Thanks for the response. I, too, know of couples where either the wife or husband has an unsaid "go" to satisfy needs that the other either doesn't want to or can't satisfy. That was my point about sometimes it is better to be in the dark. It wasn't guessing, it was my experience.

Thank you also for posting about you mongering in order to save your relationship. I believe that many here monger for the same reason. Also, saving sanity.

Your post is well thought out and I appreciate your input.

I gotta say that I will disagree vehemently with anyone who indicates that what Subatomic did was even remotely innocent, even comparatively. He slept with a married women. That is on him. Not anyone else.

Have a Great Day,

Dave

Where did SubAtomic go?

Well, Sub, if nothin' else, I can say your story elicited more posts in a 24 hour period than any I have seen in a while!

Now, come clean with us!

Was this a story out of your imagination, messin' with us? If so, you did a good job & I enjoyed the story & the analysis!

-Goph

El C,
Thank you for being the one to give a clear and specific answer to my question and realizing that your reasoning. like many of ours, may have an element of rationalization to it. You should also acknowledge that your answer really only applied to the specific cases you mentioned. I'm sure there are many cases like yours and your friends and I can appreciate having tacit permission but not wanting to rub it in the face of the spouse, but I suspect that isn't the usual story going on with most married mongers. There is too much talk of cover stories and to many tales of embittered divorces. Are we to believe that there were never any pre-divorce infidelities on the monger's part? Or that the cheating on their spouses with the intent of saving the marriage consistently fails so miserably? Well maybe yes there. What you didn't answer is how my question would be applied to the more typical married monger. Finally, even if we were to make the dubious concession that extramarital sex by mongers are always innocent, there would still be the larger question that society faces us with concerning the basic morality of "mongering" or of essentially taking sexual advantage of the impoverishment of desperate third world women.

Personally, if I had a wife and I loved her I would never cheat or lie to her because I know how much it would hurt her if it ever got back to her. Unfortunately, I realize there are plenty of people trapped in loveless marriages due to Ch*ldren or finances, etc. Fortunaely, I can't personally speak on that. If I was faced with Subs situation, I'm not sure what I would do. I know I would be tempted, but I might pass it up for any number of reasons, let alone the question of morality. However, I DO monger. So, realizing that others judge me (unfairly in my view), far from putting my opinions over anyone else's, I actually apply my moral values SOLELY to myself and I encourage others to do the same whether with me or with Subatomic or anyone else. If I've been rephrasing or simply repetitive its because apparently this basic point I've been trying to make has not been understood. I wasn't asking anyone to accept my moral values, only understand how others might add up various situations differenet ways. I'm sure I've shared the company of others whose value systems I didn't exactly share and, unless, a person is a known pedophile, murderer or crook, I have no absolutely no problem with that.

Wow, Subatomic really crossed the line. I can't say that I wouldn't have done the Tica, especially after her "life as a caged bird" story. I will say that I could never have done her in some other guy's bed.

Holy sh*t, that's some dangerous stuff.

Little head, big head - it's all about which one's in control.

Since Subatomic has a business relationship with esa mujer, this story is probably far from over.

Underdog

I AGREE WITH EVERYBODY!

AS long as no one gets hurt what can it hurt & like pointed out maybe it can help?

I just wish pure joy didn't envolve so many WORRIES & RISKS?

This is the very reason that I don't post very often. The wordsmithing that others must do to even the simplest of posts is very frustrating. On one hand, "thanks for the specific answer", which, if you read my posts, I have already answered it the same way. Then, it is followed up by "You should also acknowledge that your answer really only applied to the specific cases you mentioned." And, of course, this was a rhetorical question, so I have no idea why it even had to be answered. El Ciego, guess you should edit your post.

Have a Great Day,

Dave

I can only add that ya all better leave my girl alone!!

While I cannot judge anyone elses behavior, for ME I would not accept as right sleeping with someone in a marriage or other committed relationship in THEIR bed or house. I also wouldnt if I knew that person was still active in the relationship sexually. Some people stay in marriages for other reasons and have open sex lives. That is everyones own business. Yet I dont condone the macho "would kick anyones ass I found doing my woman in my bed" routine. I also wouldnt take violence on my supposed woman. I would simply assume neither of them had any morals and for sure no respect for me. Therefore...They would both leave my house immediately. THen again in the US there is a hitch. If you cohabitate with a woman more than X amount of time, you cannot simply "kick her out". There is due process and they have a right to the shelter of the home whether you are married or not. Roomates the same way...laws differing by state. Moral of that story is...be careful who you take into your home and for how long.

If I was the guy in this TIca relationship/marriage, I would be scared shitless to stay around her at all. No one even mentioned if protected sex was involved, but many woman in USA claim to be on the pill and I know many guys will have unprotected sex. This is very scary within the hetero married community.

I also agree that we cant moralize too much against this Tica's actions outside of having this fling in her husbands bed/home. Most of us have mongered within our relationships...so we have no stones to throw. BUT...I like many here draw the line at WHERE I would have the affair. And I would never seriously date a working girl...or most Ticas I have known. Sorry...just dont trust any of them...

Have a Great Day, Dave.

I really don't want to fight with you and am sorry you seem so offended. Obviously, we aren't communicating effectively with each other so I'm just going to let it drop.