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United Airlines bumping bigger passengers?

Staff Report

April 16, 2009

United Airlines may bump severely overweight passengers from sold-out flights.

Passengers who are too large to fit comfortably in a coach seat will be required to buy a second ticket or upgrade to business class, where seats are larger, if United's flight attendants can't find two open seats for them.

The Chicago-based carrier said it decided to adopt the tougher policy after receiving more than 700 complaints last year from passengers "who did not have a comfortable flight because the person next to them infringed on their seat," spokeswoman Robin Urbanski said.

Most airlines in the U.S. spell out similar rules in a legal document called the "contract of carriage" that establishes services and charges for flights, airline analysts said.

Southwest Airlines requires passengers who can't comfortably lower their armrests to purchase tickets for two adjacent seats. Southwest will refund the cost of the second seat if a flight isn't sold-out.

Although the policy has been on Southwest's books for a quarter-century, the low-cost carrier faced widespread backlash when it reminded consumers of its standards for larger passengers in 2002, as Southwest switched from plastic boarding cards to electronic tickets.

Passenger issues of weight and proximity have become more sensitive in recent years as flights have become fuller. But as airlines adopt or toughen policies for obese passengers, some question how they can enforce such measures fairly.

"How do you eyeball someone and decide they're not going to fit?" said aviation consultant Robert Mann, president of R.W. Mann & Co. "From a knees-to-seatback perspective, I don't fit. I'm 6 feet 4 inches.

"We'll first try to re-accomodate you on another seat on the flight," Urbanski said. "If the flight is full, and that's not often the case these days, you'll be bumped from the flight."

If this occurs, passengers will be forced to either find a flight with open seating or be required to buy two seats or an upgrade to a class of service with wide seats.

If seating is not available and a passenger decides not to travel, the ticket will be refunded without any penalty, even if it is a non-refundable ticket.


Personally, its about damn time more airlines adopt this policy. Nothing worse then sitting next to someone and having to cram yourself into a ball for the duration of the flight because the jackass next to you cant fit into his seat properly.

Well now, could the problem really be that airlines pack more seats into a plane than it was designed to hold? To me this is another screw you from the airline industry.

Being a fat person I called United's customer service to get an understanding of their new policy. Here is a link to the policy. It does a good job of thouroughly explaining it. Personally I don't think I will be affected by it but I do find it disturbing. After all airlines don't charge extra if someone needs extra space for a wheel chair or other such device. http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6722,52985,00.html

I'm sure many here will concure with Jmacaula comment and I can appreciate his concerns. What does bother me is he referes to the fat person as a "jackass". It seems to me Jmacaula thinks it's okay to deminish someone because their fat. If he were refering to a person of color, a woman or someone with an obvious disability; that would be considered wrong. I'm not trying to be all politically correct or anything but it does point out the general attitude towards fat people. These are the same people who are often addicted to alchohol, drugs and nicotine. It's sort of like the pot caling the kettle black. Just sayin'

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"Guess what?! I've got a fever, and the only prescription... is more cowbell!"
Christopher Walken

Nope. The problem is that the seats were designed for people, not draft horses. If we have allowed ourselves to get so big that two seats are required to contain our bulk then we get to pay for two seats. Yay!!!!!! It is about phucking time!

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Disclaimer: The above is merely the opinion of the author unless specific scientific data is included.
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I hope all airline are considering it; I sat in the middle of a row from England to LAX. a 350# on the wright (started eating before in the air), and a 330# woman on the left!!! It was no fun - and no other seats free; except first class!! They should pay double for sure...
Duessel

Airlines do not put more seats into an airframe then it was designed to hold. Different airlines order the same model airplane with different seating configurations from all charter (less pitch then airline coach) to a mix of first/business/coach.

Not to restart the thread about weight that went on for pages here awhile back and got somewhat heated but I think the policy is fair and needed. A standard seat belt and one extension will fit many overweight individuals. Those who exceed that profile certainly cause discomfort to other seated next to them. Additionally the policy is only enforced when there are no other seats that can be used to solve the problem and they waive the penalty on non-refundable tickets. Sounds fair to me.

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Alex Levine

A majority of the people, not all this is true... can do something about their weight that is why people are harder on larger obese people that make the flight uncomfortable for 10 hours for the person next to them because they just think about the next cheese burger. Being fat is NOT like being disable because in 90% of the cases you can do something about it, the other 10 maybe they cant. So yes it is unfair to that other 10%, but the other 90% can show some restraint and hop on the treadmill.

This gets at me since i am a big guy. Why don't we just charge extra for someone being black, brown or white? Seems to me its the same difference... discrimination...

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The difference is Brother Squirrel88 that some discrimination is legal and some is not. And by the way, Southwest Airlines has had this policy for 28 years--it's only now that the other airlines are picking up on it that it made the news.

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"Amen, brother"-ED

To start off, I'm about 6'1 and 260. So I'm a big dude. And I've never had a problem with the seats. But I've had people who were at least double my size try to squeeze into the seats, and I will be truthful in saying that I wouldnt want to be the person sitting next to them.

When you buy a seat on an airline, you're buying that space for X number of hours. You, and the people around you, should be comfortable. I really dont think any person will have any issues with this policy unless they are very height / weight un-proportionate. And speaking as a big guy, I think its a very fair policy designed with all individuals comfort in mind, not only one person.

Those are some fascinating statistics you've got there HunterS. What was your source for them? Was it the CDC, Johns Hopkin's, Fox News or an episode of House? Just wondering.

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"Guess what?! I've got a fever, and the only prescription... is more cowbell!"
Christopher Walken

If your way overweight and these policies affect you-GO ON A DIET!

I think that the others effectively countered Slim's earlier objections about whether the airlines provide adequate space and such. I'll only add that we all know what is healthy and normal or even what is average (which these days tends to be a bit above what is considered healthy) and the airlines seats are perfectly adequate for that. It is only when a passenger is significantly larger than average where seat overflow becomes an issue.

HOWEVER, as to the Jackass comment, while there certainly can be unfairly negative general attitudes towards overweight people (sometimes by people who face negative attitudes themselves by others), this is NOT a case of that.

First of all, the airlines seem to be doing everything they can to make this as fair as possible for the passengers affected (both the overweight passengers themselves AND the completely innocent passengers who are forced to sit in the seat next to them). They're not bothered at all if the seat next to them is empty. If it isn't they're allowed to move to some other contiguous seats that are. If that is not possible, they're allowed to change to another flight that has the space if one is available or are given refunds EVEN IF the ticket they purchased was a non-refundable one. It is hard to imagine what more they could do to accomodate these passengers short of continuing to allow them to diminish the flight experience of the completely innocent passengers who were unfortunate to get the seat beside them.

Secondly, ALL of the above accomodations made by the airlines really go BEYOND what they "owe" the overweight passenger who only books one coach ticket. Most people have flown before and KNOW whether they can properly fit in these seats and. even if they haven't, they KNOW that they are SIGNIFICANTLY overweight and that the real possibility exists that they won't be able to fit in those seats. So, knowing all that, if such a person goes ahead and books a small coach seat figuring that if someone gets stuck beside them that will just be too bad for them and they will have to suffer then, I'm sorry, they ARE a jackass. They're not a jackass because they're overweight. They're a jackass because of their lack of consideration for their fellow passengers

A person that is severely overweight may not "choose" to be that way, just as a person of color, a woman or someone with an obvious disability does not choose their particularly status (although in the case of the morbidly obese there ARE usually some things they can do about it). But, unlike people in those other groups, they DID choose to book a space that is inadequate for their needs which also negatively physically impact those around them.

I disagree with Hunter that this is unfair to the "10% who can't do anything about their weight". I also question where he got his statistics. But, whatever those exact numbers are, EVEN IF they can't do anything about their weight, they should recognize that they are what they are and that 1 coach seat may not be adequate for them. And so they should also recognize that there may wind up being some consequences if they try to get away with just booking a small seat. Overly large people can't fit into Miatas either does that mean they should get a 2nd Miata for free or have Mazda adapt the Miata so that larger people can fit inside or does it mean that those large people should just buy a different car?

Its completely different. Leaving aside the whole question of whether being grossly overweight is an elective condition or not (personally I recognize the huge difficulty for some overweight people on doing anything about their condition due to glandular, metabolic or psychological factors), unlike another person's skin color, a fat person spilling over into another seat who can't even put down the armrest PHYSICALLY AFFECTS THE PERSON NEXT TO THEM.

An interesting analogy that I heard was the case of a single person living in a studio apartment with a family of 8 living in the same size apartment right next door. In that case, you wouldn't figure that the family of 8 had the right to move into the single guy's living room just because they needed the extra space. Or would you figure the large family should just move to (and pay for) a larger apartment that could accomodate all of them?

Now if you want to talk about other "conditions" that might warrant similar restrictions, now that we've started down this slippery slope, there are some other arguments that I've heard put forward by people who think these policies are unfair that I think have SOME merit. If we're going to "discriminate" against morbidly obese people because of their negative impact on their fellow passengers then why don't the airlines institute similar policies against families with screaming Babi*s or tall people with long legs that continually knee the person sitting in front of them in the back? And where does it end? How about a surcharge on seatmates who refuse to shut up while you're trying to just get a little sleep? Or people with B.O. who like to fart a lot and people with annoyingly cloying perfume or cologne? Or people who CHOSE the window seat even though they insist on getting up 50 times during the flight forcing you to get up to let them out? Or people that carry WAAYY too much carry-on luggage (which they also have unenforced rules on and is also a "weight issue") for clonking you in the head, shoulder or knee as they try to negotiate their big load down the aisle and then take up all of the overhead space? Or how about those loud drunk obnoxious gringos 3 rows back that you hear talking about their sexploits in CR while you're sitting with your wife and Ch*ldren? Should the airlines be allowed to serve them more alcoholic drinks? You can see where this is all going.

To further explain my comments.
I wasn't saying your a jackass specifically because your fat, Im saying what many others here have attempted to explain; you booking a plane ticket with the knowledge it affects me the passenger next to you is a jackass move.

IMHO few others make a flight as uncomfortable as an overweight person next to you. No one is discriminating. They are saying when airlines have already designed seats to maximum efficiency and you stick someone who doesnt fit "average" or close to it into that seat, it usually results in a negative way.

Someone argued its the same as disabled people. I beg to differ. If you have never noticed. In most cases disabled people are situated at the front of the plane. Would it somehow make you happy if all the overweight people were in the back of the plane? I doubt it.



I had to laugh, Im sorry. It just reminded me of the TV shows where you get the overweight girl cursing up and down at the skinny hot chick about how she looks all sick shes so skinny, and how shes insecure, and all the guys want a real woman that aint' afraid to eat.

Alcohol, drugs, and nicotine has nothing to do with it.

I think they should give overweight people their own
section on the plane.
" Ladies and gentlemen at this time we would like
all the FAT ASSES to board the plane".

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