www.CostaRicaTicas.com

Perhaps, President Obama will open up the doors to many new venues in the world for us mongers.... and, the world may change it's attitudes towards us and welcome mongers.....thoughts?

I would say that even if he were sympathetic, and I have no reason to know either way, making the world safe for mongering would be very low on his list of priorities.

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"The only normal people are those you don't know very well." Joe Ancis

i highly doubt one man can change the attitude of the world, but who knows I don't go to many places, but I promise, I will try to monger in all, and see what happens

Like Bilko said, Barrack may be very inspiring but he is not the messiah and he won't magically transform the world overnight. Even if he does bring about change over time, he's got so many other much more important issues to deal with right now that it would be ridiculous to think that making the world more welcoming to mongers would even be in the top 1000.

In fact, as "liberal" as he might be, it is politically untenable (suicidal really) for any politician to come out in support of our little "hobby". First of all, even ignoring all the religious values conservatives who voted for McCain, you've got centrist independents and Democrats who may not make it their central issue but who still hold certain values and mongering is not well regarded even by them. And then there are the liberal Democrats. Do you really think many of them are supportive of what we do either? "Anti-mongerism" (aka "anti-trafficking) is driven nearly as much by leftist women's rights groups as it is by conservative religious organizations.

Does that mean Obama won't have ANY impact on what we do? Actually, I think he might but not so much from anything he will actively do to support it. It will probably come as much or more so from what he does NOT do AND from what he has ALREADY done. First, what he has ALREADY done by simply getting elected is reverse the declining image of the US in the rest of the world. This by itself should make not just mongers but all international traveler from the US a bit more welcome than they have been in many parts of the world. Secondly, what he will probably NOT do is make imposing our conservative religious values on the rest of the world a high priority for his administration. That means no longer will sexual abstinence over condom use be a requirement for developing world family planning programs in which the US takes part. And no longer will the US bully foreign countries in other areas that are really not our business.

That said I do think there may be a few areas where Obama policies might actively (if indirectly) make things better for us mongers. Obama is willing to sit down with our enemies to seek to resolve our differences (while not conceding anything without getting something in return). As the saying goes "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer". The one enemy that is already geographically closest to the US is also the prime example of the longest running FAILED foreign policy of the US. Nearly 50 years of embargo and attempted isolation has failed to bring the Cuban government to its knees but it has made life impossibly hard for the Cuban people (forcing many to illegally immigrate to the US). Perhaps it is time to give dialog a try. Maybe we won't be able to get them to renounce authoritarianism, but we will get them to open up their economy to capitalism the way that China has gradually opened up in the 30 years since Nixon's famous visit. Or maybe dialog and trade with them will help bring about democratic and economic change in much the same way that Glasnost helped bring about change in Russia (from which they're sliding back). Its hard to see what will happen in Cuba in the long term, but it seems pretty clear that the last 8 years of stronger enforcement of the "Helms Burton Act" (named of course for the 2 Republicans who were responsible for passing it despite several Democratic filibusters) will be reversed and it will be easier for mongers to travel to Cuba with much less fear that their travel documents will be scrutinized and they'll somehow be fined and charged with "trading with the enemy". In fact, it is not outside the realm of possibility that the embargo will be rescinded entirely thereby opening up Cuba for business development by US investors, who must be drooling at the possibilities now, particularly in the area of tourism. And despite the best goals of either government it also seems likely if and when that were to happen that mongering opportunities are likely to blossom alongside any increased tourism development just as it has in just about every other developing country with tourism from the developed world.

To truly open up Cuba will require the passing of the current generation of ideologically-based Cuban leadership. Once they're gone and are replaced by more technocratically-oriented, more pragmatic leadership, we can have genuine dialogue. It took 25 years and several major spasms in China, for example. A major stumbling block in Cuba will be what to do about the expropriated property--who ownership would pass to, etc. And don't forget the anti-U. S. counterforce of Hugo Chavez. I believe the Cuban-Americans in the U. S. are becoming less rabid--they were more anti-Castro than anti-communist and the 2nd/3rd generation sons and daughters will be more open to reason and some kind of accommodation with a non-Castro Cuban leadership.

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"A man accustomed to hear only the echo of his own sentiments, soon bars all the common avenues of delight, and has no part in the general gratification of mankind"--Dr. Johnson
"Amen, brother"-ED

I disagree slightly with Jazzbo here. I think it is quite possible that Obama may relax sanctions on Cuba, and possibly even allow legal visits there by US citizens. From a purely mongering perspective, this would be great, especially for the Floridians. Hell, you can almost paddle your surfboards there. If this should happen, it might change things in CR. As a left coaster, I had never met so many Floridians in my life as I have living here. How would they respond to 20 minute, 75$ flights? How many might choose Cuba over CR? And if that did happen, most importantly of all, would those accursed high-priced Colombianas become affordable to guys like me?

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"The only normal people are those you don't know very well." Joe Ancis

I, for one, would love to see Cuba open up as another "travel" destination. And for us Florida residents, it'd almost be TOO close, and TOO tempting to fly (or take a boat) over there once or twice a month. Damn - the possibilities...........

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You ALWAYS have an option ....... "NEXT" !!!

Brothers Bilko and MG--I admit I was presenting a worst-case scenario and I so want you to be right. All by themselves, the possibilities of genuine excellent Cuban cigars with a mojito-y-Cubana combo gives me a stiffie.

_________________
"A man accustomed to hear only the echo of his own sentiments, soon bars all the common avenues of delight, and has no part in the general gratification of mankind"--Dr. Johnson
"Amen, brother"-ED

I would be interested to know what % of anti-Castro Cuban-Floridian-Americans voted for Obama. If the pct. is small enough, he may risk offending them and lift some parts of the Embargo.

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"The only normal people are those you don't know very well." Joe Ancis

Opening Cuba to mongering would be a nice benefit. Atl to cuba would change my CR schedule a lot. Damn, I knew there was some upside. I just have to do it before my wealth is redistibuted.

I seriously doubt there are many if any PRO-Castro Cuban Americans in Florida or anywhere else. The real dividing line is not whether they like Castro or not but what they think we should do about him and that dividing line is largely generational as Jazzbo suggested. Where I disagree with Jazzbo is that I think this shift is already starting to reveal itself. Sure you still have politicians like Lincoln Diaz-Ballart and Ileana Ros-Lehtinen and fossils like Jorge Mas Canosa of the CANF, but their political base is dying off and/or becoming acculturated and you also have pragmatic politicians like Raul Martinez, long-time Democratic mayor of Hialeah.

Think about it. You have Cubans in Tampa who have mostly been here since the turn of the last century (circa the Spanish-American War, Teddy Roosevelt, San Juan Hill) when they came over to work in our cigar factories. Of course, they care about their homeland but not like one who was born there. Then you have the Cubans who live mainly in S. Florida who came over after the Cuban Revolution of 1959. They were the monied class, who lost almost everything when they fled the island (think Bacardi, Cohiba, etc.)and I suspect they're motivated almost as much by the dream of getting back what was nationalized as anything political (more on that in a moment). The problem is that those who were old enough to really remember Cuba are now 60 or even older and are greatly outnumbered by their Ch*ldren and grandchildren who were born here. Those 2nd and 3rd generations Cubans are heavily acculturated. Although they still may share a lot of the attitudes that they were raised with they are far less passionate about it. A lot of them recognize the existing Cuban policy for what it is, an utter failure that hurts their cousins back in Cuba far more than it hurts the Cuban government. Next you have Cubans from subsequent waves of immigration including the Marielitos of 1980 (think Scarface). They never had the pre-revolution wealth and know firsthand the trials and tribulations of their Cuban brothers and sisters back home. Many of them are as rabidly anti-Castro as any of the older generation, but a most of them are much more concerned about a) making a new life in America (and sending money back home) and b) bringing relief to the brothers and sisters they left behind whatever it takes. They better than anyone understand the effects of the Cuban Embargo. Finally, you have a HUGE and growing population of Latinos in Florida who aren't even from Cuba but come from other places like Colombia, El Salvador, Nicaragua and Mexico. Their attitude towards Cuba are probably not much different than any of ours except they are probably even more likely to feel that Cuba gets too much of our attention relative to their own countries (and that Cuban exiles can unfairly more favorable treatment by US immigration).

If you look at the exit polls for how Latinos voted in Florida you will see how this bears out. Overall, Latinos went for Obama by 57% to 42%. For white voters it was the exact opposite. Latinos 18-29 years old went for Obama by 76%, 45-64 year olds went Obama by 62%. Interestingly, it was the 30-44 year olds that were split 50-50 but all those age groups greatly exceeded the corresponding percentages for whites.

Diablo said:



Change its attitude? What does that mean? Mom and Pop are going to pat you on the back when you say you're going to screw some hot bitches in CR? Your K*ds will tell their friends about your "hobby?" Folks at work will ask about the details of your last trip and be smiling and enthralled?

It's an interesting statement and it made me chuckle a bit. Something in it begs understanding and acceptance, but we, the invested, are clearly not understood or accepted. It's an optimistic and wishful thought, however, but attitudes will not change. You may think other cultures tolerate prostitution and the men who pursue it, but in reality, it's just as frowned upon as it is in cultures where it's illegal. The difference is you don't get popped by the police in countries where it's legal.

We're so close to the subject that after a while, practicing the lifestyle almost seems mainstream. I don't want to appear self-loathing for something I do, because I'm not. I think the "exploitation of girls in the third-world" argument is overdone and dramatic. But in truth, the spectrum of where we mongers fall, from being hated to barely tolerated, is as good as it gets. If it's acceptance and understanding you crave, take up volunteering at homeless shelters, or even golf. Enjoy the "sleaze" factor of mongering.

Then you'll be happy.

_________________
"Don't never trust a woman, till she's dead and deep....One day she'll say she loves you, next day she'll throw you on the street."

"...and if men didn't have this unquenchable desire to have sex with women, then they wouldn't have anything to do with women at all. I certainly wouldn't..."

FYI: It remains illegal for citizens of the USA to travel to Cuba. I wouldn't discuss it until it's legal. It's easy to get to and from Havana from San Jose and there are many, many nice little and most affordable packages in high quality hotels; All inclusive deals for 4days 3nights, etc. Still, it's just not legal for a USA citizen to visit Cuba, irrespective of where you travel from. Getting hit with the fine will only redistribute your wealth all the quicker.

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"Actual happiness always looks pretty squalid in comparison with the over-compensations for misery. And, of course, stability isn't nearly so spectacular as instability. And being contented has none of the glamour of a good fight against misfortune, none of the picturesqueness of a struggle with temptation, or a fatal overthrow by passion or doubt. Happiness is never grand."
- Aldous Huxley, Brave New World, Ch. 16

Reading all these posts just made me wonder....Whatever happened to one of my favorite Latinas.....Daisy Fuentes

Steven, it may be illegal for most US citizens to travel to Cuba, but many do any way and, without giving away too much, it is not illegal to talk about it.

Also the package deals are NOT the way to go for us mongers in Cuba because you can't bring any chicas back to the regular hotels that come with those packages. Besides, those official state hotels are not even really that nice. The way to go is to stay at one of the many private homes called casa particulares that the state allows some citizens to operate. They tend to be nicer than the official hotels, certainly more friendly. Like everything else, they're heavily regulated and the owners have to pay heavy taxes to the state but you can usually bring back anyone you want.

As for getting fined, that only happens if you get caught. Cuban law now forbids immigration officials from stamping US passports (their visa stamp goes on a seperate tourist card). You also want to avoid getting any extra departure and re-entry stamps in your gateway country. That can definitely be done in other countries like Mexico but I'm not sure how that works in CR. Even if you get an extra CR entry stamp, the US officials are unlikely to notice it among dozens already in your passport. Several hundred thousand americans travel to Cuba each year, most illegally, and only a small handful get caught (usually for something stupid like leaving a Cubana Air tag on their luggage). Even on those relatively rare occasions where someone slips up and foolishly reveals where they went, the worst that usually happens is that they get a little intimidation by the ICE agent and a humongous fine that can fairly easily be negotiated down to $500-1000 or better yet tied up in appeals until it is dropped entirely. Some agents won't even bother to enforce it (particularly when what tripped you up was a bunch of Cohibas that he can then "confiscate").

See:
http://www.cuba-junky.com/cuba/vamos_UStravelinfo.htm
http://www.cubatravelus.com/Travel_Tips.htm
http://www.cubatravelusa.com/Travel_Tips.htm