www.CostaRicaTicas.com

I have to agree with Sluthog on this one. I have a lot of friends who do S&R work who routinely say that the Salvation Army has their people on the ground, passing out hot meals while the Red Cross is still holding policy meetings on how to approach the situation.

Best comedy line ever: "My father was a Sargent in the Army. The Salvation Army."

Salvation army:

Being on location I can testify that the first organization I saw on the ground passing out food water and clothing was the Salvation Army. That said I must add that my view is very narrow. There could have easily been some other organization just a few blocks away. Even today there is very little coordination. In many cases organizations or for that matter individuals are arriving finding a piece of open ground setting up camp and going and find their own refugees.

An example: in the little community that I live in there is an airport for private craft. The organization that runs the airport and individuals that use it have literally taken pickup trucks driven as far in-to New Orleans as they can get and picked up whomever wanted to leave. They are even offering to fly individuals who may be stranded to their home cities.

Lee

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PS: DO NOT SEND MONEY!

I decided to delete most of this post for reasons of inappropriateness in this forum, however I thought I'd leave this last part in. It is not meant as any sort of political statement but merely as an interesting tale of how a past natural disaster had major impacts on the subsequent social fabric of the US and how this more recent event may yet affect us in ways yet unknown. Admittedly, it doesn't have anything to do with Costa Rica Ticas, but I found it interesting and I thought some of you would too.

Part 6 - The Great Mississippi Flood of 1927
As long as I'm throwing everything but the kitchen sink into this post, allow me to share one last thing that I at least found interesting. Hopefully you will too. Comparisons have been made in the wake of Hurricane Katrina to past natural disasters in the US, in particular the Hurricane that hit Galveston TX in 1900 (7000 dead), the San Francisco Earthquake of 1906 (500 dead), the Johnstown Flood of 1889 (2200 dead), the Okeechobee Hurricane of 1928 (1800 dead), the Labor Day Hurricane that hit the FL Keys in 1935 ("only" 408 dead so I don't know why they include that one), Camille which hit the same area as Katrina in 1969 (256 dead) and the much more recent Andrew (only 26 dead but 100K homes destroyed and $26-35B in damages). But the one I find the most interesting is the Great Mississippi Flood of 1927.

In the spring of 1927 the Mississippi River broke out of its levee system in 145 places and inundated over 27K sq. miles of land in water up to 30 feet deep. "Only" 246 people were killed but there was over $400M in damages ($4.2B in 2005 $). They actually used 30 tons of dynamite to blow up one levee to prevent New Orleans from being flooded. In the end, up to 1,000,000 were displaced including 330,000 blacks. Of course, this was the era of segregation so the whites were evacuated first and what supplies the blacks got were inferior to those given to whites. The blacks were moved into 154 relief camps, where the lived for months, many were detained and forced to labor at gunpoint during flood relief efforts.

This is where it gets interesting. There have been other natural disasters, some that were in many ways worse than this, but this one had many profound effects on the social fabric of America. No one expected the
government to help the victims. President Calvin Coolidge even refused to visit the area. As a result, the flood created and destroyed leaders: Herbert Hoover, Coolidge's secretary of Commerce, was considered politically dead until he took over rescue/relief efforts. His competence and public relations skills sent him to the White House in 1928. But his
duplicity in dealings with black leaders helped begin turning black voters from the Republican Party of Lincoln to the Democratic party of FDR in the next election in 1932. The massive federal relief efforts themselves set the precedent for federal involvement in social programs in the south that would later become the New Deal.

Wait there's more. Just as with this flood there was a lot of political posturing, finger pointing, corruption and ineptitude involved. However with that flood it was not in terms of the federal relief efforts which got generally high marks, helping Hoover. The screw-ups were in the events that caused the flood, the levee system that had been built up during the previous 75 years were in some places inadequate and in other places exacerbated the flood (sound familiar). It turned out that the levee that was blown up didn't need to be and ended up wiping out parishes south of N.O. Bankers and city leaders reneged on promises of full compensation to victims. Such backtracking was among the many resentments people in Louisiana had against the upper classes when they elected Huey Long governor in 1928.

As bad as it was in the relief camps for the blacks, it was still better in many ways than the poverty they were relegated to as sharecroppers. When it was all over, many of the blacks, rather than settle back as sharecroppers simply moved north, thus starting what is known as the Great Migration that radically transformed the demographics of the northern cities like Detroit, Chicago, etc. and effectively bringing to an end the planter aristocracy that had dominated the south during the antebellum era.

I just find it interesting that such a little known event could have had such far ranging impact. The events of this hurricane/flood could be as dramatic, probably in somewhat different and in as of yet unknown ways.

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Quote:
"Louisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/2000

'The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating'... "

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If New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, Democrat, and Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco, Democrat, had not ignored this disaster plan they could have save a lot of people.

Why didn’t they use the busses in this picture?

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...lpc21109012015#

250+ busses. 85 passengers each. Fueled. One one-way trip for each bus in the photo? They could have evacuated more than 21,000 people.

The Corp of Engineeers knew the levis were rated for CAT 3 because that is all anyone one for the last 40 years would provide the money and space to build them at. The Levis that broke were as strong as they were allowed to be by those in charge.

The buses however, were sitting there for their usage. The GOVERNER refused the federal request for mandatory evacuation 2x I think - her and the Mayor did NOT make use of ANY of the resources available, they did NOT provide for supplies at the evacuation points (SuperDoom, Convention Cntr, etc), the GOVERNOR did NOT mobilize the NG 3 days ahead of time which is typically required to get the members together and ready to go (they are civilians till that point - they were at home with THEIR families waiting for the calls and then in the same mess everyone else was), there was NO plan for proper use or stationing of the local or state LE, FD and other 1st responders OR their equipment. Local gov't in response to THEIR area getting hit by a hurricane was a sad and deadly joke. To have the mayor crying he needed federal help when he did NOTHING is pitiful.

They KNEW exactly what would happen if a situation developed as it did - they KNEW 100,000+ of THEIR poor and imobile would be left behind - BY CHOICE mostly, or circumstance, and yet THEY DID NOTHING. THEY failed.

That idiot mayor goes on TV the day before Katrina made landfall telling people to get out of the city. According to the city's Emergency Management Plan, he's 2 days late. For a Cat 3 storm, they have 72 hours. Here's the link to the city plan. Go ahead and read it and then come back and tell us if they didn't ignore the plan. Pay special attention to the tasks listing towards the bottom.
http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26

So, you think that FEMA has the legal authority to depose a governor and a mayor, prior to a hurricane's making landfall, and prior to the governor's having asked the Prez to declare the area a disaster area, making that area eligible for federal funds?

Bet your law school wasn't accredited!

Were you aware that Bush issued the disaster declaration BEFORE Katrina came onshore? That's an historical first. Bush got full cooperation from Mississippi and Alabama.

The declaration allowed FEMA to stage relief supplies ahead of Katrina, and begin the mobilization calls.

It takes two to four days before a full-bore federal effort can actually get underway. In part, this is because it takes time to find out who can do what where, and where, exactly, certain effort is needed. In the interim, it's up to local and state officials.

When the ostensible leader of New Orleans bails out and runs, chaos ensued.

In contrast to New Orleans, there was only minimal looting after the horrendous 1995 earthquake in Kobe, Japan—because, when you get down to it, Japanese aren't blacks. For example, the per capita imprisonment rate for Asian-Americans is about 1/30th that of African-Americans.

Nor is it surprising that the black refugees at the Superdome and the convention center failed to get themselves organized to make conditions more livable. Poor black people seldom cooperate well with each other because they don't trust other blacks much, for the perfectly rational reason that they commit large numbers of crimes against each other.

Indeed, as Francis Fukuyama's best book, Trust, makes clear, in most of the world—outside Japan and the more British-Germanic-Nordic parts of Europe and their overseas offspring like America—people seldom trust fellow citizens beyond their extended families enough to voluntarily come together to solve community problems. Force is generally needed to get them to work with each other. Which is why "civic society" is relatively rare.

(Why Mr. Bush wants to import vast numbers of additional immigrants from cultures where unrelated residents have no tradition of self-organizing as free individuals is a mystery for another day.)

But if all these disasters in New Orleans should have been expected, why did nobody at any level of government act as if they expected them?

Because to anticipate the problems would require noticing that racial differences are relevant. And that can ruin one's career.

Governmental bodies naturally decay rapidly in competence, especially when free discussion of unpleasant realities is suppressed.

New Orleans should remind us that we still live in a harsh world. The make-believe that passes for public discourse, even at the elite level, simply isn't adequate for protecting American citizens.

Rolex,
You raised a lot of extremely valid points here but I also quite a few that I would spin differently than the way you have spun them. I also want to state that I enjoy our political sparring and respect the fact that we both can do it WITHOUT getting personal and WITH the understanding that the other has the right to believe as they do whether we agree with each other or not. The fact that you and I are generally so diametrically opposed is actually what makes it so much more enjoyable. Whats the point in debating with people you agree with. There are not enough people out there who are both reasonably well informed and thickskinned enough to be able to have concersations like this.

That said we do tread on dangerous ground holding such conversations in a public forum that others will either a) get carried away and insulted by whatever is said or b) gets bored to tears having to listen to yours and my political diatribes. So rather than respond to you here publicly, I'll take this discussion to PM. If anyone else wants to continue to hear Rolex and my opposing views, just pipe in.

ok you two should get a room no just joking i am enjoying the phuck out of you twos posts keep it up and least something to read. after so much hype over the party and new ZB kittens , which of the 2 not much has been written so please continue , unless ADMIN 1,2 object . i think there should be free speach . i wish all of our sponsors were like ZB and the SPORTSMANS LODGE pura vida

YO Fellows:
Hell, I'm trying to sober up from the damn CR trip.......yea, right. Have not looked at the forum since last week. Lordy Prolijo, how do you get so many words on here before it cancels you out......you are a trip. You make valid points but I'm afraid you look through a political prism. Actually I enjoyed reading the debate between you and Rolex. Sorry, but I have to side with Rolex on this one......SURPRISE !!!

Actually I am so tired of the bashing going on when we need problem solvers, not monday morn quarterbacks that have no solutions. 99% of politicians are whores and not worth a cien. I have no trust in any political party......they all piss me off.

Please, I wish the mainstream press would note: THE CURRENT ADMIMISTRATION DID NOT CAUSE THIS PROBLEM and it is not a RACIAL THING as several politicians and the the NAACP are yelling.. Prolijo, it is the responsibility of the state Governor to call out the national guard.....not the president. And don't even try to equate this hurricane to global warming....Geezzzz. I don't care what political party he represents but the N.O. mayor does not have a clue and is just plain worthless. He should be former D.C. mayor, Marion Barry's roomie. The La. governor should find another line of work, she is pitiful. When florida had 4 hurricanes back to back our governor hit the gound running and got things in gear.....and I am NO FAN of his. Mississippi and Alabama leaders are finding solutions currently.....not whinning and crying. Remember how Rudy got N.Y. going after 911? Prolijo, we still have plenty of national guard units available in the country. BTW, there were close to 2,000 school buses that were available in N.O. and could have been used to take residents to safe areas....HELLO.

New Orleans is about the most corrupt city politically in the nation and they certainly do not hurt for lack of theives and murderers among the general population. The police force is not regarded as one of the better trained groups around. Why, especially in the last 40 years, have the elected officials, all parties, done nothing to upgrade the levy system? And yes, there has been federal money allocated for that......N.O. just spent it on other projects. Yes, this is the worst disaster for an american city but I have never seen a city and state act so helpless by blaming their woes on the federal government.

Yes, we can all point fingers and many enjoy the blame game. Yes, I do feel a lot of sorrow for the people that lost everything and the families that lost relatives to death. I plan on helping financially as best I can and will work to get other people to open up their wallets. This country is resilient and New Orleans along with the other destroyed areas will rebuild and probably improve as a result. It took Andrew to make the Miami area realize just how decades of abuse in housing codes created so much damage. I have more worries of the potential health problems that will be caused by this flood but that will be addressed as are the current problems. Time will heal along with a hell of a lot of work and money. That's what mankind has done since it's inception.

Here Here Circus! The most well written 100% correct assessment of the current situation in NOLA! And thank you for giving probs to Jeb Bush in Tallahassee, I am no fan of his either, but his reaction to the back to back to back to back blows in FL last year was amazing. Screw the national guard, send Jeb and Rudy to LA, ship Nagin and the Gov of LA to Iraq, and the problem will be solved.

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A Costa Rica Toast:
Here's to Looking like Movie Stars, Partying like Rock Stars and phucking like PORN STARS!

OK guys..... I really don't want to be the one to throw the fire on this, but guys I think we have convered enough ground here. We are all very sympathetic to the tradegy that occured with Hurricane Katrina and feel for its victims and I am sure our prayers are with everyone.

Now on the flip side.... without being unfeeling towards this but this has Nothing whatsoever to do with CR. Its time to put the political jousting, opinions and various contributions about the hurricane to rest.

I do not want to sound unsympathetic but based on the dozens of pm's and emails I have received stating nobody wants to read political opinions and contributions its time to move forward and let these particular related threads go to bed.

THANK YOU!

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Thank you for supporting CRT!

I guess that settles it. Mea Culpa. My apologies to everyone who comes to this site for discussion of Costa Rica Ticas and who hear enough of this BS on either side through other outlets. Sometimes in responding to things I read I get a little carried away Ya think?

YO Everyone:

Let's put this topic to rest. I started it and will be glad to end it. The great thing about some of us on here is that we can always find another thing to yack about. Thanks to all that contributed. Did I mention a "Send Circus to CR Fund" ?

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Damn if I'm going to repeat this shit again. I need a drink.
I've been drinking vodka every day for 45 years and I have certainly never found it to be habit forming.

Last word...
I was there. It took us twenty one hours on a bus to get to Houston. At one point we had only driven 10 miles after being on the road for twelve hours. When the storm started to hit I thought we'd have to ride it out on the bus sitting in a ditch. But, traffic finally opened and we made it safely before the levy broke. When I finally made it home I'd been up for two days. Just about every local we were working with lost everything so we wired them all back cash. Send them money directly if you can. It's easier for them. So F*#k it...enough said. I'm glad to be home and sorry I missed the CRT party.
Bigger

YO BTA:

Glad you are OK and made it to safe haven. Yes the party was fun but heck with that.....there will be CRT # 3 next year anyway. Besides, if you have grandkids one day, you can excite their eager young ears with the story of how you surfed the edge of deadly Hurricane Katrina to safety back in 05'. Sure beats the hell out of a story of going to a party to be around a bunch of drunk, sex starved, young and old gringos at a massage parlor.........hmmm......well at least in the company of young ones. Save the last story and add 06'for the old farts at the corner bar.

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Damn if I'm going to repeat this shit again. I need a drink.
I've been drinking vodka every day for 45 years and I have certainly never found it to be habit forming.