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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:10 pm 
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Either way, the point is that no political person is going to publicly support CD. The hobby is not accepted in the main stream. Republican, Democrat, Independent doesn't matter. None will support! The only chance is possibly for humanitarian issues being his age and in an overcrowded cell with true criminals not blogging criminals. But I suspect even that won't draw any support. There seems too be many large egos at play here even on this board.

So Fishwater you are correct...time to let it go!!

The takeaway should be for all of us keep low-key.. Open eyes and ears and shut mouths is a good rule of thumb.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:23 pm 
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Making a BLANKET statement like ... ALL prostitution is trafficking... That is pretty serrious. It goes way beyond the obvious... How our country and culture feels the way it does in regards to prostitution. No surprises here.

I called our esteemed brother BD out on it. He could not back it up with proof. So I call bullshit on that. Communication, the sender, the message and the receiver.... Can can phucked up in many ways. In this case I think the receiver's memory is faulty.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:04 pm 
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Point well taken but IMHO way too much focus on "all" the point is how this is viewed as evidenced by this article:

"This is powerful, since most of U.S. rhetoric on trafficking has focused on sex work and women, including erroneously, voluntary sex work;"

Maybe BD misspoke using the word "all". Or maybe he didnt. To get so uptight about it is unreasonable. At any rate public opinion at least outwardly is anti- prostitution in the United States.

So in the big picture that small three letter word doesn't matter especially to take it so personal.

I believe he made his point maybe a bit stronger than necessary to CaptainCohiba as CC was simply making a statement as a thought to what is occurring to our fellow American. Even though CD should have never done what he did he was almost daring the CR government to take action apparently forgetting our protections we enjoy as U.S. Citizens don't follow us out of our country.

Additionally I am in agreement with 911 that it is difficult for one to have sympathy for someone that brings unneeded and unwanted attention to something that brings so many of us enjoyment which is exactly what he did.

Did CD make extremely poor decisions.. Absolutely
Does CD belong in jail absolutely not
Should CD be banned from entering CR..probably

What we need to keep in mind is at anytime that could be anyone of us although not likely because most follow the rules and stay below the radar. But all it takes is to piss off the wrong person in power and your screwed.

Stay safe, enjoy and be careful!

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:13 am 
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Phoenix Rising wrote:
Making a BLANKET statement like ... ALL prostitution is trafficking... That is pretty serrious. It goes way beyond the obvious... How our country and culture feels the way it does in regards to prostitution. No surprises here.

I called our esteemed brother BD out on it. He could not back it up with proof. So I call bullshit on that. Communication, the sender, the message and the receiver.... Can can phucked up in many ways. In this case I think the receiver's memory is faulty.

A fair assessment, but make sure you add the caveat that you didn't even bother to read the link I posted. :twisted:

By the way, exactly how do you think that it changes "How our country and culture feels the way it does in regards to prostitution."?? Are you suggesting that it somehow becomes more acceptable in your rendition? If I was wrong (which I wasn't), how exactly do you see a cultural perception change with the inclusion/exclusion of the word "all" (in all of its potential connotations)? Perhaps you feel that 'your prostitution activities' would be not a part of the 'all' and somehow more acceptable to this "country and culture" that you speak of. Well, perhaps it would ... but not in my "country and culture". I still think yer a dirty ol' pervert ... just shy of cultural icon, for me. Keep up the good work! :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:29 am 
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Human rights commission calls on Costa Rica to end excessive use of preventive detention

By Timothy Williams – March 14, 2016

Many suspects awaiting trial are housed alongside convicted criminal in Costa Rica's La Reforma Prison, pictured. (ICR/CRS Archive)
Many suspects awaiting trial are housed alongside convicted criminal in Costa Rica’s La Reforma Prison, pictured. (ICR/CRS Archive)
The Inter-American Commission on Human Rights (CIDH), an autonomous body of the Organization of American States (OAS) headquartered in Washington, D.C. is calling on Costa Rica to end what it considers the excessive use of pretrial imprisonment in the country.

In January of this year, some 18 percent of the entire prison population in Costa Rica were inmates awaiting formal charges or a chance at trial, known in Costa Rica “preventive detention.”

Judges routinely order three to six months of preventive detention following arrests, though detention is sometimes extended to give prosecutors additional time to build a case.

In many cases, those arrested remain in jail on “suspicion” – but without formal charges – on hopes that prosecutors can build a case with sufficient evidence to bring charges against them. But many times, prosecutors fail to do so, ultimately declining to press charges and detainees are released after spending three, six, or more months in prison.

In a report of the CIDH, the Commission is calling on Costa Rica to only apply preventive detention in “exceptional” cases, saying that preventive detention should be the exception, not the norm, and should be applied while taking into account “the principles of legality, presumption of innocence, reasonableness, necessity and proportionality.”

“It (imprisonment) is the most severe measure that can be imposed on a defendant […] with all the real consequences that it entails for the person and his family,” the Commission said in its report.

The Commission also noted the “deplorable” condition in the La Reforma Prison, where many prisoners awaiting charge or trial are housed along with convicted inmates.

One American – who spent six months in preventive detention in Costa Rica before being released – has also been campaigning against the practice of pretrial imprisonment since his release.

Mr. Patrick Hundley, founder of Daystar Properties in Jaco, Costa Rica, was arrested in Costa Rica on February 17, 2014, after being accused of fraud by a former business partner. A judge determined that Hundley should be held in a prison in Perez Zeledon while prosecutors attempted to build a case against him.

He would remain in the prison for more than six months before being released without charge.

According to Mr. Hundley, he shared a cell designed to hold 22 prisoners with 60 other inmates – “some of them convicted murders,” according to Hundley.

Most men were forced to sleep on the concrete floor and 60 men had to share a single shower, Hundley says on a web site he set up to as part of his campaign to end preventive detention in Costa Rica, CostaRicaInjustice.com.

In an open letter written by Hundley while still behind bars in 2014, the American real estate developer, originally from west Michigan, described Costa Rica’s system of preventive detention as “broken and in need of repair.”

“[The system of preventive detention] is abused by overworked and sometimes lazy prosecutors as a way to buy time for their case. Unfortunately, men are sent to prison with no proof or evidence of guilt while the prosecutor builds his case. This goes against the laws of this country and against all human rights. A system that punishes without proof of guilt is indefensible. Under the [preventive detention] system people are treated as ‘guilty’ until proven innocent’ and we all know it should be ‘innocent” until proven ‘guilty’,” Hundley wrote.

“The current prisons cannot handle additional inmates. They are currently over capacity and the conditions are inhumane. For example, the cell in which I am currently located was built for 22 inmates. During my stay, we have had as many as 66 men. That is 3 times capacity. We are packed in like sardines in a can, men sleeping all over the floor. This overcrowding creates an unbelievable hostile environment. Plus, it creates an even more unsanitary condition. It overburdens the infrastructure. We have had countless days with interrupted water service. We had a 20 day period where it was necessary to fill a bucket with water to flush toilets and to pour water over you to take a shower. We have had complete days with no drinking water available. Frankly, the overcrowded and unsanitary conditions breed an unhealthy environment which leads to many illnesses and violent actions,” Hundley continued in the open letter.

“The access to medical attention is deplorable. I have seen many inmates go untreated for infections and gripe (flu) for many weeks. I believe it is due to an understaffed and overworked medical department. Most of the illnesses could be prevented if the overcrowding and unsanitary conditions were eliminated. In an extreme case I watched an older inmate have what appeared to be a heart attack. Several guards surrounded him and simply watched. I rushed to him to offer assistance because I am CPR trained. Thankfully he was having an asthma and panic attack and recovered. The point is, the staff is obviously not properly trained to administer any medical help if needed.”

Mr. Hundley was released, without charge in late 2014.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:47 am 
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Good to hear, but isn't this guy the scumbag that others were complaining of? If so, isn't this more of a 'he beat the system' kind of story?

Also, as the Costa Rican legal system is not built upon the same rock that holds the US legal system, does anyone know if "presumption of innocence" is a part of theirs? I honestly do not know.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:20 pm 
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BashfulDwarf wrote:
Good to hear, but isn't this guy the scumbag that others were complaining of? If so, isn't this more of a 'he beat the system' kind of story?

Also, as the Costa Rican legal system is not built upon the same rock that holds the US legal system, does anyone know if "presumption of innocence" is a part of theirs? I honestly do not know.


Not sure on the first part of your post and for the second:

I have no idea but I would venture a guess of no they don't just based on putting someone in jail while your cops put a case together. Seems backwards to me.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:14 pm 
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hless125 wrote:
I have no idea but I would venture a guess of no they don't just based on putting someone in jail while your cops put a case together. Seems backwards to me.

We all assume that the world is just like us. If you think 'due process' is inherent in our legal tradition, then explain Guantanamo. Also explain why certain 'detainees' in the US are denied bail.

The purpose of their 'detainment' is obviously to keep dangerous people locked away while the justice system has time to make it permanent. Sure, it sounds screwed up to us, with our bottomless pockets for quick justice legal system ... (yes, that was a joke). But when the alternative is to either just execute them without due process or let them wander the streets while justice slowly turned, then their method sounds acceptable from both the judicial and public safety sides.

And yes, some 'non-violent' people get caught up in the detainment thing too. However, the locals suffer the legal system that they deserve, just like the rest of us. And when someone knowingly travels to a country with more repressive laws than their home nation, they take on the full responsibility of their own safety and situation. I do not cry over the 'tourists' that sneak into North Korea and get caught, anymore than I do for CD and his predicament. He should have known about their detainment policies, and he should have known that, after passing that whack-a-mole law, that he could very well be a target.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:32 pm 
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If you research the case on Patrick Hundley, you will find that the victims were Americans from W. Michigan. He had a bond set. It was 3 million. He was accused of swindling investors out of more than 8 million. No doubt the investors would have preferred to get their money back or at least part of it than to see him go to jail and no doubt the Costa Rican government probably considered this a problem among Americans. I suspect a deal was made and it went away. As for Dave. This is not something of any urgency to the Costa Rican government. Everything here takes ten times as long as it should. Try getting a cup of coffee in the morning. It is called Tico time. If Dave had enough money behind him to grease enough of the right pockets, things would move more swiftly. As it is, the system has probably pretty much forgotten that he is there. Costa Rica tolerates prostitution. It is not something the country wants connected to it's image. The prosecution of Dave is a warning that our hobby is getting to be more visible than they want. There has not been other arrests or business closures. It is on the line with the annual raids at the Del Rey and mps. It is a show that the politicians, prosecutors and police put on to tell their constituents they are working to clean up vise. It is just telling everyone to keep their heads down. I suspect that it will be a long time before anyone else opens a website regaling their exploits with photos and how to do's. Hopefully Dave will be released soon. At this point there is little more to be gained by the government in holding him. The message should have been seen and understood by all. The last thing the government should want is for him to die in jail. This would be seen as a blemish on the countries tourist image.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:55 pm 
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BashfulDwarf wrote:
hless125 wrote:
I have no idea but I would venture a guess of no they don't just based on putting someone in jail while your cops put a case together. Seems backwards to me.

We all assume that the world is just like us. If you think 'due process' is inherent in our legal tradition, then explain Guantanamo. Also explain why certain 'detainees' in the US are denied bail.

The purpose of their 'detainment' is obviously to keep dangerous people locked away while the justice system has time to make it permanent. Sure, it sounds screwed up to us, with our bottomless pockets for quick justice legal system ... (yes, that was a joke). But when the alternative is to either just execute them without due process or let them wander the streets while justice slowly turned, then their method sounds acceptable from both the judicial and public safety sides.

And yes, some 'non-violent' people get caught up in the detainment thing too. However, the locals suffer the legal system that they deserve, just like the rest of us. And when someone knowingly travels to a country with more repressive laws than their home nation, they take on the full responsibility of their own safety and situation. I do not cry over the 'tourists' that sneak into North Korea and get caught, anymore than I do for CD and his predicament. He should have known about their detainment policies, and he should have known that, after passing that whack-a-mole law, that he could very well be a target.


IN A WORD "CORRUPTION"

Perhaps being a lawyer you would be better at answering why our criminal justice system and many lawyers and judges are so corrupt. Something tells me as Pops eloquently stated if Dave had money to grease the right people he would probably be out. Everything revolves around the mighty dollar.

The good old buddy system is alive and well in the U.S.

About Guantanamo I have no idea but I suspect 9/11 may have something to do with it. The way you do not cry over tourists who sneak in to North Korea ( by the way most detained arrive there legally ) I do not cry over the terrorists that are housed in Cuba.

By the way I am in complete agreement that Dave screwed up big time and is now paying a very steep price.

Props to POPS who hands down scribes the best reading on this site.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:14 am 
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There is a reason that prison is in Guantanamo Bay, so that it is OUTSIDE of the U.S. criminal justice system. Those people are held in military facilities. That is precisely what the dispute is about. Personally, I wish they had not taken them prisoner, the idea of war being to close with, and DESTROY, the enemy. Not capture them. And yes, while I can understand preventative detention of murderers, though not agreeing with it.

However, this discussion was not about a murderer, was it?? I thought it was a crime of the printed word. Big difference. Some rights of man are universal, sometimes even DESPITE the law.

Just a thought.


Last edited by Tipicaman on Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:17 am 
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This CD episode is a story of Ego and Hubris more than it is about dumb foreign laws and procedures. So focused on being Professor Poon and "The Go to Guy" that he didn't give a shit about how anything affected others or the CR Mongering community! He got dealt a hopeless crappy hand. But he was the guy dealing the cards!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:33 am 
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Accused are not presumed innocent in Costa Rica, nor for that matter in any most countries in Latin America.

Preventive detention is another thing... It is similar to being held before trial and not being able to post bail, or not being allowed to (in USA or Canada). But to be held for a long time in terrible conditions is not acceptable. But that is CR.

As for the law... it is CR and their country and they have the right to such a law. Not that different from a lot of stupid laws at home. The big difference is the severity of the punishment, length of time to even be charged, etc. I doubt that meets international standards... being held without charge for months in deplorable conditions. And for the crime of advertising essentially.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:01 am 
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Zeos wrote:
Accused are not presumed innocent in Costa Rica, nor for that matter in any most countries in Latin America.

Preventive detention is another thing... It is similar to being held before trial and not being able to post bail, or not being allowed to (in USA or Canada). But to be held for a long time in terrible conditions is not acceptable. But that is CR.

As for the law... it is CR and their country and they have the right to such a law. Not that different from a lot of stupid laws at home. The big difference is the severity of the punishment, length of time to even be charged, etc. I doubt that meets international standards... being held without charge for months in deplorable conditions. And for the crime of advertising essentially.

I completely agree with you.

It is funny, but the last two paragraphs applies to Guantanamo too! :mrgreen: Swap out 'advertising' with 'plotting' and you still have first amendment issues.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:51 pm 
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Tipicaman wrote:
There is a reason that prison is in Guantanamo Bay, so that it is OUTSIDE of the U.S. criminal justice system. Those people are held in military facilities. That is precisely what the dispute is about. Personally, I wish they had not taken them prisoner, the idea of war being to close with, and DESTROY, the enemy. Not capture them. And yes, while I can understand preventative detention of murderers, though not agreeing with it.

However, this discussion was not about a murderer, was it?? I thought it was a crime of the printed word. Big difference. Some rights of man are universal, sometimes even DESPITE the law.

Just a thought.


Excellent post Tipicaman. It is exactly about the printed word and not murder or anything close to it. As previously stated big egos at play.

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