www.CostaRicaTicas.com

I remember many years ago when almost all of the security guys and customs guys would make you turn on your laptop, cellphone, digital camera, etc. to make sure that the stuff was really what it appeared to be. You would be required to push the power button on all your electronics and let the security or customs dude watch it power up to prove that it really was a laptop, cellphone or digital camera. Otherwise, it might be a bomb that you're planning to use to blow something up.

Now, going through customs they freak out if you turn on your laptop, cellphone, or digital camera. They are afraid, when you push the button to power up your electronics, that you might be arming a bomb that you're planning to use to blow something up.


IRONY... you never see it coming

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Paris -- De Gaulle airport: I am going through security shortly after the liquid ban that the USA started and was very quickly adopted by many other countries. I have my little Ziploc bag with the tiny bottles less than 3.2 ounces each. The dude at security picks up the bag to look at all the bottles. Shampoo, toothpaste, mouthwash... but apparently not many people carry hand sanitizer (I do). He looks surprised and takes the little bottle out of the bag, and rotates it so he can read the ingredient label. "Oh, no sir. This has alcohol in it. Alcohol is forbidden on aircraft -- it's not allowed." I seriously almost busted out laughing, and the guy behind me was having a hard time keeping from doing the same thing. Honestly, this was so hilarious that all I could do was peep out 2 octaves higher than my normal voice, "OK, no problem, just throw it in the trash." I sit down in the second row when I get on the airplane and the dude that was behind me at security sits down right across the aisle from me. The FA comes through for the pre-departure drinks and I ask for a vodka and Orange Juice, but please don't mix it, just bring the OJ in the cup and the mini-bottle of vodka. The other dude didn't get it, but when the FA brought the vodka, I unscrewed the top and let it sit on the tray-table until dude looked at me. I gave him that "check this out" nod and smile, and poured the vodka into my left hand and rubbed my hands together, using it as a hand sanitizer. Dude laughed so hard he was crying and saying "oh man that is PRICELESS".

This is not, in a legal sense, true. Once again, we are dealing with a very muddy area here, and an attorney that is an intelligent expert in the areas of international and extraterritorial law can run circles around the USA government's attorneys for a lot of things.

I would first of all like to say that I am not advocating or encouraging anyone to engage in any kind of sexual activity with a minor. Personally, I find 18, 19, and 20-ish girls to be too young for me and boring. I get tired of hearing stories about the Kardashians and Britney Spears. But it is important to understand how the law works...

If you bring a laptop computer into the USA with photos of naked junior-high K*ds on it, and the Immigration or Customs guys find it, you're screwed. You brought physical photographic material that shows und***ge porn into USA territory -- totally illegal in the USA. On the other hand, if you actually had sex with, say, a 15-year-old in another country, it becomes a much more debatable issue. Maybe that country considers the age of consent to be 15 years. Maybe that is a specific religion's tenet in that part of the world. What did you actually do to abuse the 15-year-old? Or are you treating your new mate respectfully and in accordance with the laws of the religion which he (or she) practices? And of course, bringing a laptop with illegal photos on it into the USA is a crime that occurs on USA soil. Having sex with a person that just happens to be considered below the age of consent in the USA, while in another country, cannot technically be prosecuted. However, under the "effect" clause, the younger the person is, the more likely the DA might be able to get a conviction. 15 years old? 12 years old? 7 years old? You start to get my point.

It simply is not true that the sole practice of violating USA law while outside the USA is prosecutable. There must be other factors that make it have an adverse effect upon the USA, or it must be covered by an international agreement that declares it illegal in both the country where the crime is committed and the country of which the offender is a citizen. In the first case, hire a good attorney and the prosecutors will be wondering what the hell just happened as you walk out free as a bird. In the second case, you are probably completely hosed.

Actually, it can. You may want to review the US law 18 USC 2423....

http://www.justice.gov/criminal/ceos/ci ... cking.html

"Federal law provides “extraterritorial jurisdiction” over certain sex offenses against Ch*ldren. Extraterritorial jurisdiction is the legal authority of the United States to prosecute criminal conduct that took place outside its borders.
Section 2423(c) of Title 18, United States Code, prohibits United States citizens or legal permanent residents from traveling from the United States to a foreign country, and while there, raping or sexually molesting a Ch*ld or paying a Ch*ld for sex. Citizens can be punished under this law even if the conduct they engaged in was legal in the country where it occurred. For example, if an individual traveled to a country that had legalized prostitution, and while they were there they paid a Ch*ld for sex, that individual could still be convicted under this statute. The penalty for this provision is up to 30 years in prison.
Section 2423(b) of Title 18, United States Code, is a similar provision. Section 2423(b) makes it a crime for United States citizens or legal permanent residents to travel from the United States to a foreign country with the intent to engage in illegal sexual conduct with a Ch*ld such as rape, molestation, or prostitution. The difference between Section 2423(b) and Section 2423(c) is that Section 2423(b) statute requires proof that the defendant had formed his criminal intent at the time he began to travel. The penalty for this offense is also up to 30 years in prison."

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The only thing that matters is happiness in all it forms...

I am very familiar with Title 18, and not because I am trying to violate the law, rather that it was part of my training for international travel, especially as it regards the applicability and enforceability of USA law against USA citizens for suspected violations of extraterritorial law while outside the USA.

I hope the Admins don't pull the ripcord on this discussion. I realize that this is a touchy subject, but we are not here trying to figure out how to do something illegal or that many would consider morally incorrect, just trying to understand the law, so here we go with the law that you referenced...

READ -->
Section 2423(c) of Title 18, United States Code, prohibits United States citizens or legal permanent residents from traveling from the United States to a foreign country, and while there, raping or sexually molesting a Ch*ld or paying a Ch*ld for sex. Citizens can be punished under this law even if the conduct they engaged in was legal in the country where it occurred. For example, if an individual traveled to a country that had legalized prostitution, and while they were there they paid a Ch*ld for sex, that individual could still be convicted under this statute. The penalty for this provision is up to 30 years in prison.

NOW THINK -->
According to this law -- you can't rape, sexually molest, or pay a Ch*ld for sex (prostitution) in another country without being subject to prosecution when you return to the USA. Just for the sake of argument, since most of the people on this board are from the USA, we will assume here that a "Ch*ld" is a human under the age of 18 years.

What is this law really telling us? A good extraterritorial lawyer would tell you that it is completely legal -- IN THE USA -- for a USA citizen or permanent resident to rape, sexually molest, or pay a person considered "not a Ch*ld" for sex in another country. There's the rub -- having sex with a Ch*ld is not necessarily against USA law. The law addresses rape, molestation, and Ch*ld prostitution. That would be up to the courts to decide if the state decided to press the case. But there is no specific law forbidding it.

Someone always mentions Statutory Rape, which makes any sex within certain age parameters a crime. But the USA federal government has set a clear precedent that this issue is delegated to the individual states, and the states cannot prosecute a crime, without tremendous difficulty, that is committed on foreign soil

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Now with that information I'll let you interpret this section for yourselves:

Section 2423(b) of Title 18, United States Code, is a similar provision. Section 2423(b) makes it a crime for United States citizens or legal permanent residents to travel from the United States to a foreign country with the intent to engage in illegal sexual conduct with a Ch*ld such as rape, molestation, or prostitution. The difference between Section 2423(b) and Section 2423(c) is that Section 2423(b) statute requires proof that the defendant had formed his criminal intent at the time he began to travel. The penalty for this offense is also up to 30 years in prison. Finally, Section 2423(d) makes it a crime to be what is known informally as being a “Ch*ld sex tour operator.” This statute makes it an offense to profit by facilitating the travel of U.S. Citizens or legal permanent residents, knowing that they are traveling for the purpose of engaging in illegal sex with a minor

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Think about it. I'm not advocating any moral or legal activity, I'm just discussing the law. What does it REALLY say?

As I always understood it, under Federal Law, a person under 18 is considered unable (legally) to provide consent so ANY sex with someone under 18 is rape so IMHO, it is covered. State laws do vary with different age of consents but a State will never prosecute a Federal Law, only the U.S. Govt under those definitions. Best idea, just avoid the situation all together and you don't have to ever worry about it.

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The only thing that matters is happiness in all it forms...

Your totally wrong on this subject and probably shouldn't be posting. Your argument is absurd. It would be like a country says it is legal to kill one's spouse if they say they cheated on you or any other reason. You go to said country and kill your cheating spouse and come back to the US and say listen it is legal there because a cheating spouse isn't considered a person.

Bottom line, a US citizen is subject to prosecution for sex with a minor no matter where said sex take place. There is no grey area.

There are actually numerous states in the USA where the age of consent is 16, and there are many statutes such as the "4-year age difference", "Romeo and Juliet", and similar laws in some states that further cloud the issue.

FYI, the legal age of consent in Costa Rica is 15 years.

HOWEVER... when you start talking about paying another person for sex, you enter into an entirely different discussion of both domestic and international law. The vast majority of countries in the world consider 18 to be the MINIMUM age to participate in sex-for-money.

I don't really want to banter with you, because I think we are on the same page here, and I think that we are confusing each other with the points that we are trying to make that we think the other person does not agree with, when in fact I think that we do agree and are saying the same things from a different point of view.

As this is indeed a touchy subject, this is my last post on the issue before the Admins get antsy about this discussion. Once again, I was only trying to discuss the law and how it applies, not promote or endorse any immoral or illegal activity.

Check those ID's and have fun

Yes...this is how bad it's gotten..we are actually talking about this...


Cujo

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"Pain is the fuel that fans the flames of my pyre. A battle plan is only as good as the general carrying it out on the field. This is my war son, and I have the biggest bombs and the smallest conscience"...

The argument and interpretation is definitely over my head. IMHO, you may be right technically but the charges one may have to fight and the lawyers one would have to hire if charged would be quite substantial and very punitive even if you do win. Since such a high percentage of cases are settled with a plea bargain, this would probably end up with a person having a bad record and, perhaps, sexual predator status.

Personally, I would never be looking for and discussing technicalities for such a crime. Just sets a bad tone that it can even remotely be done with an "out" to the crime. iMHO, the board gains nothing by debating the legality or ineffeciency of the law for such a deplorable crime.

Have a Great Day,

Dave

OK, but I did have to respond to this one post:



I am very well versed in international law, I understand quite a bit about how it operates, and you are misinterpreting what I am saying.

First of all, the crimes against minors that you mention in the latter part of your statement are prosecutable by the USA, even if committed overseas, because it is specifically addressed in USA law as such. Also, there are international agreements allowing for expedited extradition in these cases. If you rape a minor in another country, you will not only be nailed to the wall in that country, but also in the USA when you return. But there is nothing illegal about the simple act of sex in many states of the USA below the age of 18.

But, if you kill your spouse in a foreign country, no crime has been committed in the USA. It is outside of the jurisdiction of the USA and the USA can do nothing -- without the consent of the country where the crime occurred. However, you DID commit murder in some other country and murder is probably illegal there. If someone from another country comes to the USA and goes on a shooting spree and kills a couple dozen people, that is a USA crime. The USA is not going to let that guy board a plane back to his home country and say "well, they'll take care of this guy." NO -- he will rot in a USA prison for the rest of his life and never see anything outside of the USA again.

If you do in fact kill your spouse in a foreign country, there are some provisions that I cannot specifically recall that provide for prosecution of a USA citizen/resident who commits certain crimes against another USA citizen/resident. Possibly a murder would apply in this case, but I defer to someone who knows more about this than I do. Now, as I mentioned earlier, if you murder your wife in another country and she is a secretary for some dude that works for the department of the interior in the USA, she's a government employee and you are phucked. The DA will put you in federal "pound-me-in-the-ass" prison for the rest of your life.

I don't really appreciate your insults and insinuations. I have been in over 100 sovereign states and am very well aware of how international law operates. If you are prosecuted and found guilty for something that is illegal in the USA, but you did it in a foreign country, where it is legal, and it is not SPECIFICALLY addressed as an enforceable extraterritorial law (keep in mind, the law that ANOTHER member -- not me -- posted above refers to rape, molestation, and prostitution, not simple sex), that simply means one thing: You had a terrible lawyer and a judge/jury that does not understand how extraterritorial law works.

And Dave, once again I will state that it is not about endorsing any illegal activity or helping anyone "skirt the law." This is about understanding law, how it applies, and nuances that may be involved in its enforcement. There are quite a few people (including me, maybe you) that are living in CR and it really, really pays to know the law and how it is enforced in a country you are not native to that has a national language that you do not natively speak. Personally, I find this a thought-provoking and entertaining discussion -- if anyone is getting angry or irritated about it, I think you might be missing the potential benefit of it.

Will have to agree to disagree. Personally, I cannot even remotely understand finding this thought-provoking and entertaining. Discussing this subject is entertaining! Sorry, I just cannot understand that.

IMHO, I will let a perpetrator in this find their own way out and I find no use in assisting in setting up a possible defense for him.

Have a Great Day,

Dave

There are actually numerous states in the USA where the age of consent is 16, and there are many statutes such as the "4-year age difference", "Romeo and Juliet", and similar laws in some states that further cloud the issue.

FYI, the legal age of consent in Costa Rica is 15

The age of consent in Costa rica is 18,there has been notices on several websites to that and to ignore any mention of it being as low as 15.However in New York state the age of consent is 17 and has been depicted as such in Law and Order which stars detectives specializing in sex crimes in NYC.
Also i,ve done my homework before my first trip and found the best way to avoid the un$%^age problem in Costa Rica is to pick up chicas in the hotels and casinos since they are screened for age among a few other things before allowed in hotels like Del Rey,Sportsmen,s and to avoid street scene at all.

Hi Folks,

I regret but this thread has degraded into a bunch of confusing information. Here are the only three things you need to know.

1. Offering anything of value in exchange for sex with a person under age 18 is a crime in Costa Rica.
http://ministeriopublico.poder-judicial ... les/01.pdf

2. U.S. citizens who travel internationally with the intent of having sex with persons under age 18 are guilty of a felony under federal law. http://www.justice.gov/criminal/ceos/su ... urism.html

3. Please See CRT Rule Number Two: Any person who attempts to discuss, promote, or receive information related to pedophilia or sexual conduct with Ch*ldren will be removed. Furthermore, CRT reserves the right to provide detailed personal information, computer logs and records for individuals who break this rule to federal law enforcement authorities in the United States.

As to the original poster's question about customs searches of files and photos on computer and portable devices, we know this happens because enough people have shared their own personal experiences. Please just do a search of the forum and you will find some examples.

Otherwise, this post is now being locked as it seems it may have already or is at least in danger of breaking CRT Rule Number Two. If anyone has any specific concerns, then please feel free to PM me for advice.

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