www.CostaRicaTicas.com

In my opinion it has to be American Airlines. They are late more times than on time and just yesterday, I was at SJO to pick up a CRT member and the flight was diverted to Liberia. I found out that the air traffic controller wanted them to circle one time before landing and AA did not have enough fuel to do so. Our CRT Brother missed his dentist appointment because AA does not carry enough fuel. I am saying that if you have an option of another airline or route, you'd better take it. And don't schedule a dentist appointment on the same day you are flying into SJO on AA. What's you guys experiences with the airlines?

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Not sure I agree with this one. I've flown from Miami to SJO (or Liberia) around 60-70+ times on American Airlines. Out of all those flights, there's been minimal problems with delays or cancellations. You might want to check statistics on Spirit Airlines. I've personally never flown with them, and based on what I've heard and read - I'd rather have my ass kicked by Mike Tyson than fly with Spirit. My "getaways" are much too important to me to put into the hands of a nickel-and-dime-broke-dick airline. My dos colones...

MG

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You ALWAYS have an option ....... "NEXT" !!!

Or maybe didn't have a gate or a ground crew or something else? The no fuel thing for one circle sounds a little scarey to me. Anyway Sid, do you know what eventually happened to the flight? Went to Liberia, refueled, and then the up and down back to SJ which had to be a several hour pain in the ass not to mention people missing flights to other destinations further South maybe on a different airline.

The fuel question does make me think abit?
AA flies to SJO from two of its hubs
If fuel is cheaper in CR than FL or TX they might come in light, and I bet the go go juice is not cheap in chepe They might take on fuel in Caracas
A crew timed out has happened to me on a deversion to Managua
A jet with to much fuel onbourd cost money to the airline, but it must have a certain amount based on distance, weigh,and type of aircraft.
When was the last "crash" of a large jet that ran out of fuel???
I hope a pilot will chime in

I will chime in. Not a pilot but did work in flight dispatch for an air carrier.

First question that has to answered before anyone goes anyplace with this is where did One Lucky Dogg get this



There are a lot of checks and rechecks before an aircraft is dispatched. That is not to say mistakes do not occur but one of this magnitude is very very hard to conceive. If in fact the aircraft was on approach to SJO and did not have sufficient fuel to make one go around it is hard to imagine he had sufficient fuel to get to LIR.

Would really like Lucky Dogg to give us the source of his information before this gets to far because it is a very serious matter..

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Alex Levine

ID i recall when i was in MX control and the dispatchers sat in front of me the requirement is enough fuel for destination + alternate + 45 or an hour ( i forget ) Minutes cruise so that doesn't make sense to me. Now if one of the fuel quantity indications were inoperative.
meaning the fuel in that side has to be metered in ( ie . known quantity ) taking in to account the fuels specific gravity a mistake could have been made, unlikely but it is possible. Whenever I had to do a known quantity fueling i always told the feeler to give em an extra 50 gals or so as I didn't wanna have him short. I had to also sign the fuel slip and some times the MX log as well, if they came up short you got an instant 3 days off no pay. I never had one short .... so far

I would think there was another problem that they diverted for.

Bobby

30 years in airline aircraft maintenance

The more I think about this the whole thing reeks of bullshit.

Any pilot that low on fuel would have declared an emergency and ATC would have given priority landing clearance. No delay, no unnecessary vectoring and certainly no go around.

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Pura Vida
Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four
essential food groups:
alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat.
Alex Levine

That was my impression but you 2 guys know alot more of what else could have made the AA flight divert to Liberia. If that part is legit and Sid seems on top of flight schedules etc, that had to mess up alot of plans.

So, just out of curiosity and assuming the SJO flight did get re-routed to Liberia, what are the most likely reasons?

Not enough fuel to circle around SJO just one time but had enough to go to Liberia. Sounds like big BS. Is it Friday yet for funny jokes?

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Couldn't circling at constant altitude burn more fuel than slowly decending into an adjacent airport? 45 minutes does seem like a big stretch but I wouldnt be surprised if it was possible with a shorter distance.

This is the internet age boys:
http://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightRat ... umber=1071

This is a sample flight from JFK on AA. I assume we could have someone go through all the flights going into SJO

First...Thanks Sid for picking me up to and from the airport....I have to agree with Muchogusto when I plan my vacation I fly with United and they seem to have the best service ,the best planes, and the schedules...I can tell just by entering the plane that they arent as aged like AA...My last flight from Maf to SJO was 1250.00 which is kinda high...I flew AA once for 620.00 but I was really wondering if it was going to make it....when we would hit turbulence the lights would come off and on...the tv monitors were the old analog tv ...there were four for the whole plane and they would shut off everytime we hit a speed bump...I was sitting on the row where the exit is and I looked up and couldve sworn there was some sort of rust or it looked like water stain above where the overhead compartment was, its was about four feet long between the compartment and the side wall....The stewardess ate my CRT bother's ass out for asking for a beer...she was a real bitch...about 70 yrs old and cranky...Aleast on my last United trip it was actually pretty comfortable....Im not going to chance it anymore...

Most common reason is weather which has caused visibility to be below published limits or has restricted visibility causing arrival delays. This would cause flights to seek an alternate airport if they lack enough reserve fuel to wait out the expected clearing of the weather or the anticipated amount of the delay. This was a somewhat frequent occurrence at SJO before the new approach lighting was installed. Based on the weather at SJO this time of year that scenario would be a real stretch.

A very remote possibility is a incident at the airport that resulted in the runway being unavailable for flight operations. SJO having only one runway there would be no alternate should an incident close the runway. There appears to be reports of any such incident at SJO recently.

Some airport restrict operations when a VIP is scheduled to be arriving or departing the airport. Again no mention of that at SJO lately.

Certainly not the case here but there are times when a mechanical problem occurs in flight and the aircraft is diverted to an airport where the carrier has maintenance facilities and staff who can handle the problem. That is when at the original destination airport the carrier lacks the staff and facilities to handle the anticipated repair.

Another case, not relevant here, is when an emergency occurs in flight and the destination airport lacks the physical capability or the human resources to handle the emergency and the flight is diverted to an airport better equipped to handle the emergency.

There are other situations I am sure that will come to me when I really think about it but these come to mind immediately.

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Pura Vida
Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four
essential food groups:
alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat.
Alex Levine

Sid, One Lucky Dog Transort Sid, regarding your thread, the "no mas petro idea", es mierda.

One Unlucky Dog this time. Who was your source that this flight was low on fuel?

What did your CRT client who you were to pick up say that the flight deck broadcasted on board as to why the flight was being diverted to Liberia--there's the answer.

Anyone else on the CRT board ever get diverted to Liberia?

FAA regs state you must carry the following amounts of fuel:
1) enough for the expected trip (taking into account weather at departure/arrival airport as well as inflight and any expected delays)
2) enough to divert to another suitable airport
3) 45 minutes of reserve fuel at normal cruising speeds

There are times when weather or something at the airport prevents an immediate landing. It is up to the pilot to decide if he has enough fuel to hold however long the ATC asks him to. If he doesn't feel he has enough fuel, he will divert to his alternate airport. I've seen flights from almost every airline that flies here divert at one time or another, sometimes stopping early in Managua or even on to Panama City. Liberia is also (obviously) an option...

There is definitely more to the story as most airlines SOP include 15 minutes of 'hold time' fuel at destination. If the airport ask for more than 15 minutes delay, it is entirely possible the pilot decided to use his alternate airport (Liberia). One circle of the airport wouldn't be enough to cause a diversion. However, running into your 45 minutes of reserve fuel will ALWAYS open an investigation and most pilots will do whatever they can to make sure they never get that low.

Every airline follows the same rules and since they don't make anything hauling around extra (at substantial cost) they carefully compute what they will need by law then any more the SOP of the airline requires. There is little to no difference in this regard from airline to airline as the minimums are defined by law.

Just keep in mind, even during a diversion to another airport, you have plenty of fuel on-board. Last commercial flight that ran out of fuel and crashed was an Avianca flight from Colombia to New York in 1990. This was due to the pilots continuing to hold (73 minutes) and deciding to wait out a storm instead of diverting to their alternate, Boston. In the end, they made an approach but wind shear caused them to go around. During the go around, they ran out of fuel and crashed.

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