www.CostaRicaTicas.com

A a follow up to my earlier post today about the new traffic laws going into effect tomorrow, especially the low limits on a DUI blow (.5) does anybody know what they do in CR if you refuse to blow?

In my state the law allows the police to take you to a hospital for a forced blood draw, but I have learned alot of hospitals tell the police "you do it", they don't want a lawsuit for a battery from non-consentual touching.

Baseball Hall of Fame catcher Carlton Fisk got pinched two days ago, asleep in his truck in a ditch with an open bottle. Refused to blow. Took him to the hospital. They wouldn't do it.

So, seeing how easy it is to get to a .5, that's like 3-4 beers in an hour or so for most bodies, what are the consequences of refusing to blow in CR?

Can't argue with that, driving drunk is criminal. But .5 (they really mean .05) ain't drunk.

Now, in all the states, .08 blow raises "a presumption". Used to be .10 in most states for years and years, and in alot of states .12 or even .15, but the Feds forced the .08 level on all the states by threat of loss of Highway Funds.

But 3-4 beers or 3 shots in an hour or so, which would take most body types close to .05, I don't see that as a crime or "drunk driving", nor do any of the United States. There's numerous websites where you can enter your body weight and height and sex, and then enter how many drinks you had in 1,2,3 hours and it'll give you an estimate of your BAC. I just used one. 3 Bloody Mary's, 1 hour, male, 170 lbs=.054; 3 beers .046.

So, does anybody know what the consequences are for not taking a breath test in CR because I know I'll be driving back to my condo from the beach at .05?

The blood alcohol limits in Costa Rica are measured differently from the states. When they say .5 they mean .5mg per liter of blood. According to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content), .5 mg/L (CR standard) would translate to 0.1 BAC (US standard) so actually higher than the .08 most states use to determine intoxication.

Glad I don't drink....

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The only thing that matters is happiness in all it forms...

Just a question. Why would you endanger others on the road besides yourself driving with any alcohol in your system ??.. Take a taxi there and back, or stop drinking a day (or at least several hours) before a long drive..

DGD, I really like you and enjoy your posts, but 3 -4 beers, or 3 shots in an hour - you would be legaly drunk; in the USA, or CR - figure 1 beer or one shot per hour; that the body can metabolize, especially if you drank a lot of water, and had a full stomach - but 3 - 4 of anything liquor related.....no way - and while you might seem/feel fine, I've seen enough shows about drinking, and read enough that you would be impared, US system or metric - sorry, its science, not my opinion

And while El Silencio may be a tad strident in saying abstain from alcohol for a day, but several hours would seem to be a good idea - if you have a drive like you described ahead of you, I'd bag the drinking, or take a cab, bus, or van - there is always tomorrow

I think you are off in your calculations on this one, my friend

Actually in the states if you refuse a breathalyzer or field test you automatically lose ur license for a year. How they do it in fla as told to me by a cop is that they then get a court order to take blood from you but by the time they are able to do that you are already sober and there case has gone to the shitter. So all that happens is you spend a night in the tank lose your license but that's about it. So remember if you ever te pulled over for DUI just refuse and tell em to take you away

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You do costa rica your way and I'll do it my way

Steve: That's if they are taking blood tests and not breath.

Actually, it is just a different measure of blood alcohol either in breath or blood. Read the link I posted...it will explain but in the short version... In the States, they measure blood alcohol content based on a percent. So a 0.1 is .1% of the total volume of blood is alcohol. In Costa Rica, they measure it by milligrams per liter of blood. Either of the two methods can be gotten from either a breathalyzer or from a blood test. That is why the limit here is 0.5 mg/L where a BAC (US) of .5 would risk death. The article you read and linked had it right and did not mean .05 as a percent but .5mg/L of blood.

Here is the relevant sentence from the wiki article:

An ethanol level of 0.10% is equal to 22 mmol/l or 100 mg/dl of blood alcohol.[32][33] This same 0.10% BAC also equates to 0.10 g/dL of blood alcohol or 0.10 g/210L of exhaled breath alcohol or 0.476 mg/L of exhaled breath alcohol. Likewise, 0.10 mg/L of exhaled breath alcohol converts to 0.02% BAC, 0.022 g/dL of blood alcohol or 0.022 g/210L of exhaled breath alcohol.

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The only thing that matters is happiness in all it forms...

Steve: Wiki can be waki. In the US, CR and world wide for that matter, alcohol levels tested via blood or breath are measured by litre. Metric is the norm for any medical issue world wide. You'll never see "ounces" or "inches" in any medical chart anywhere. It will always be litres or centimeters or grams. In a hospital chart in Africa or NY, booze level willl be in the blood test results listed as "ETOH" (abbreviation for ethanol) but the results will be metric.

Accordingly, with any breath alcohol testing machine and there are only a few used by the police in the US, 90% using the Intoxilyzer 5000 made by CMI, Inc., the results are displayed in grams of alcohol per 210 litres.

Accordingly, every DUI statute in every state incorporates that terminology when it defines the properties of the testing equipment. I remember posting my state statute for you about a year or so ago about this when you said in the US they didn't test by litre. I think you said you were from Tx. Look up the on-line Tx state statute on breath test equipment and you'll see. It'll be in litres.

We all know CR is metric. Whatever machine they are using will be based on litres. So the results are the same if you blow in San Ramon or NY. I doubt CR cops are pulling DUI offenders over and bringing them in for blood tests, absent a major accident with serious injuries. If so, there is an extrapolation that has to be made because of the difference in breath and blood testing.

So unless CR police are using a machine with a different type of breath test technology, the results will be the same as they would be in Dallas. When they are saying the limit in CR is .5 which would be fatal, really means .05, not double to our .10

It's not the Super-shuttle. If driving after having three beers was "endangering others" as you say, there would be a zero tolerance statute in every state.

Scuba, your posts are always thought out. I try too. My calculations that three drinks in 1 hour will get you near .05 but not drunk were based on several website "booze wheels" . Try this one http://www.intox.com/drinkwheel.aspx, or http://www.alcopro.com/resources/drink-wheel.html. Enter your data and see if you think they are reliable. I have never gotten drunk on 3 drinks in an hour. Mind you that I was not saying 3 drinks in consecutive hours upon hours, obviously. I say 3 drinks in 1 hour will not get you drunk by American .08 standards, but will come close to CR's new .05. That's why I want to find out what are the consequences of refusing to blow in CR when I know I will be near .05. That's 3 drinks in an hour for my height, sex, weight.

That first website's company has been making breath test machines forever. My county government hands out manual versions of it's "wheel" at the court ordered DUI classes. I guess they figure this will help drinkers pace themselves and stay out of the "red zone".

Here is my state's Supreme Court approved jury instruction defining "under the influence" that the jury gets in my state in a DUI case where there is no breath/blood test evidence, and I suspect every other state's instructions are probably very similar:

"A person is under the influence of alcohol when, as a result of drinking any amount of alcohol, his mental or physical faculties are so impaired as to reduce his ability to think and act with ordinary care". And that has to be beyond a reasonable doubt, of course.

Here is Connecticut's:

" A person is under the influence of alcohol when as a result of drinking intoxicating liquor that person's mental, physical, or nervous processes have become so affected that he lacks to an appreciable degree the ability to function properly in relation to the operation of his motor vehicle".

Here's a "limiting" jury instruction from California's Supreme Court's approved jury instructions:

"A driver is not nececesarily under the influence because he has consumed some alcohol."

All states have a "limiting" instruction like this. Otherwise guys like one of the posters would be getting jail time for one beer.

I've copied the text below directly from the new law which I found at http://alcance.gaceta.go.cr/pub/2012/03 ... 3_2012.pdf You can find the text in Article 145

Superior a cero coma cincuenta (0,50) gramos por cada litro de sangre y hasta cero coma setenta y cinco (0,75) gramos para cada litro de sangre; o superior a cero coma veinticinco (0,25) miligramos y hasta cero coma treinta y ocho (0,38) miligramos en aire espirado; en ambos supuestos para cualquier tipo de conductor.

Here, they make a distinction between grams per liter in blood and milligrams in air exhaled. The limits are definitely .5 grams/Liter in blood OR .25mg in respiration.

Looking at the owner's manual for a breathalyzer called the Bactrack S75 (http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/breathal ... nual-2.pdf), it says on page 6 under display options that by default it displays in BAC, the standard for North America. After that, it says you can change the reading to Mg/L as an alternate unit of measure. This seems to mean that a breathalyzer used here will be set to read in Mg/L as that is what the law is written as.

Also found this at http://www.ukbreathalysers.com/info/per ... al_faq.htm :
Whether that is BAC%, mg/L, mg/100ml or Microgrammes is irrelevant - different standards have been adopted by different countries and all are as valid as each other provided the device is used correctly and properly calibrated at the time. It is the same as weighing an apple in grams, pounds, kilos, stones etc - the apple still weighs the same!

So I submit that the standard in Costa Rica is different from the standard used in the U.S. and indeed, breathalyzers can be programed to display the results in whatever standard a particular country chooses. As to how Mg/L translates to BAC%, I have given up trying to figure that one out...

Thanks for the debate...always enjoy learning new stuff and you've really made me think. Pretty interesting since this topic has nothing to do with me since I just don't enjoy drinking alcohol.

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The only thing that matters is happiness in all it forms...

I was the original poster on this thread, and all I wanted to know was what were the consequences for a gringo if you tell a transito you will not take a breath test. That is still my inquiry. Anybody know?

I am in no way trying to defend drunk drivers, I hate them. But having 3 cocktails after work or when on vacation and then driving is not a crime, never will be, is not drunk driving, is normal, is American life style for millions before us and still the norm. But, this new taffic law going into effect today can mess you up, especially because it has a "border block" provision for non payment. Read Thursday's "Iniside CR"

Steve, you are the best and we both have put alot of time on this, hopefully for the benefit of the board.

Neither of us are sure which breath machine CR is using, but I know all of them have the capability to change their displayed results from BAC (US) to Mg/L (Int'l) so that the manufacturer can sell them in other countries. My info is that CMI, Inc is now the only co making the chip and then they sell them off to different brands like what the manufacturers do with Maytag and Kenmore and Whirlpool for fridges and stoves and washing machines. My hunch is CR is using gringo equipment. Regardless, even if a foreign manufacturer exists, the underlying technology is going to be the same.

My fear is that I think CR's new traffic law effective today re: dui and a level of .5 is really .05 BAC US standards which is roughly 3 drinks in 1 hour (not 3 drinks per multi hours). Knowing CR has the highest and horrible per capita motor vehicle mortality rate in the world as per the CIA fact sheet (check it out on line), I thought maybe the legislature reacted and passed a draconic law to stop the slaughter. Something has to be done for sure. I saw this .5 dui and jail time for higher blows. But regretably, I also saw very little dealing with the biggest jerks, the moto's. I did see big fines for typical violations with fines way out of budget for Tico's. My hunch is this statute is going to get shot down by the appellate courts. And as I told Steve in a pm and as published in Thurs Inside CR, camera's on the major highways are back Friday.

Steve may be correct saying CR's new law of .5Mg/L is really = the old US standard of a BAC .10. That is not clear to either of us. But, that would change my worries alot because although I'd never drive if I thought I was close to .10, I do drive if I have had 3 or 4 beers in 1 or 1.5 hours on the playa which would put me near .05. So again does anybody know what the penalty is for refusing to blow for alcohol level in CR?

It's beyond this thread to mention how so many things will skew and print a false result using these very fragile, high maintenance, specialty computer/breath machines. Do you think they get that high maintenance attention in CR? But here goes anyway.

Alot of things have been proven to skew the results of a breath test blow with these machines--read about them on line. Like if you have false teeth, or recently burped,regurgitated or gag'd, or have a fever (like chicks when they are in their cycle), or police radio/fax/intenet/other electronics near by, improper maintenance/no calibration--the main error (required within every 60 days in my state--in CR? ja-ja-ja); software updates; over blow by the suspect--often prompted by smart cops; operator error--these machines are not just push one button, blow in tube and then wa la, here's the print out; the list goes on and on, check them out on line.

They aint as bad as polygraphs but CMI, the main manufacturer of the chip, fought for years against 3 different state courts to not revealing their internal computer codes after lawyers showed there was alot of vodoo. CMI lost. Had to cough up. It's all on line if you want to read about the junk behind these machines. A high blow is no longer a 'gotcha'--you can win. After they were forced to reveal their vodoo internal computer codes, you can now beat the machine in a US court.

But, you have to have the $$ for legal fees and more importantly $$ for "expert fees". 95% of us can't do it. Mucho dinero for an expert to testify about the problems with the machine--$5-7k?. The big boys can and they will walk without even going to trial, the prosecution will cave. The State will not spend the $$ on defending the machine. And CMI, the chip manufacuter, wants no more exposure, so they don't want no part of it. But you need the dinero to show the state you have hired an expert to testify about the machine. Do that, if you can, game over, at least as it comes to the state using the machine as evidence.

But, the state can still say forget about the blow and the machine and not use it and proceed on the cop's visuals of you, i.e. you were totally drunk, stunk of booze, couldn't walk, talk, pissed your pants, drunk mug shot, hit a car, swung at the cop, whatever, mumbled, reaked, etc. So you still have problems. But if the state was not so lucky and you really weren't that phucked up and your visuals weren't bad--- that's where your good lawyer will skewer them and they'll cave.

Different in CR I think. My hunch is a high blow will kill you solo without more. But how bad? So we need to know about how all that works if their limit is .05 Can we leave the country? Can we challenge it? What's the options?

Again, I know all of the above reads like I am defending drunk drivers. No way. Hate them. But there's a reason there are no "zero tolerance" laws in the US or CR for adults (there are in the US for minors). The reason is that responsible adults can enjoy a few cocktails and are not a danger driving after doing so. Cell phone users/texters are far more a danger as well as people who just can't drive--like alot of women I know. Tailgaters, speeders, old citizens who refuse to admit it's time to hang it up, they are alot more dangerous.

Aside from all the above, we need a protocol on DWI in CR for gringos. Not justifying it if you are driving when you are drunk, but what do you do if you get jammed up should be a thread on this board.

In Louisiana, no problem to refuse to submit to an intoxilyzer. You automatically lose your license for 365 days for a first offense, 545 days for a second or subsequent offense. This is an administrative action. You can still be charged and always are - and based on your demeanor, your red, watery eyes, your unsure gait, your difficulty in standing erect, your slurred speech, your inability to follow simple commands......the list goes on and usually results in a DWI conviction (27 yrs as a police officer in La.). In a few cases it's reduced to reckless operation (have fun with your insurance after that). You can also appeal the administrative action in front of an administrative law judge. But you must bring a certified check payable to the officer for his time. How you going to win - you did refuse, right? Doesn't matter if you had zero to drink, this part is about the refusal. If not, where's the results? Always easy money for the cop and a pleasure to watch the drunk pay us for our time. Usually in & out in 30 minutes.

In the case of an accident involving a death or great bodily harm, the blood is drawn, with or without your consent. The same statute applies immunity to the health care provider taking the sample. There is no problem getting the sample.

In San Jose I drink on my "dia de placa" - Thursdays when I can't drive into town & have to take a taxi anyway.

/dddick


BTW- it IS a crime. After any alcohol you are impaired to some degree. The 0.08/0.10 BAC is a PRESUMPTION OF GUILT issue. I have won convictions & seen many others won on less than 0.08% BAC - all depends on the behavior of the driver. I've also let a lot go who had been drinking, were honest, and did not appear to be significantly impaired. It's a judgement call but the cop only needs probable cause. Even if it ultimately ends in an aquittal there will be a DWI arrest on your record for more than 10 years and there will be considerable expense involved. BTW - that's how we win our DWI cases against people on oxycontin & other pills - it's based on their behavior & our observations. Obviously they'll have a 0%BAC but will still be impaired. Just say no or take a cab, especially in SJO where it's so cheap.

For the record - take your shots; I won't respond. Seen way too many people killed by drunks who had only had one or two drinks - "I swear". Too many conversations with families, too many autopsies, too many critically injured innocents. Drink all you want then take a cab, it's simple.

I read in today's Inside CR that the police are using the hand held portable breath test machines (PBT's) to determine your BAC/sobriety and presumably not the stationary desk mounted units which are much more sophicated and will print out a result.

PBT's, in the US where they are also used, the results are inadmissable in your DWI case and are only used as a screening defice for the arresting officer, and only if you agree--no penalty for refusing that part. They are not quite junk but not acceptable, their reuslts can vary greatly, and are subject to manipulation.

Their inaccuracy is not in dispute by any science which is why their results are not admissable in US state courts--at least not in the DUI trial. And PBT's can be played games with, manipulated easily. Google "PBT alcohol admissable" and from the data decide for yourself.

But, in CR, that's what the Transito's are using to make their decision where you are at drink/drunk wise, and remember it is now .06 in CR and not .08 like in the US. So for all you SJ urbanites that say take a taxi even if you had 1 beer, and that's of course sound advice, consider this:

Alot of us do not live/hang in SJ but do in places where there are no ready cabs, but still like having a few brews. Normal, internationally. But transitos are like dog shit in CR. They are everywhere, even very rural. And assume you get stopped on a road side by a Transito way out in the boonies, like on the main drag Rt 34 going south of Parrita to Quepos where there are no people for miles and where the transitos love to hang, a tourist trap. And you had dinner and trees cervezas. I see them there all the time there at all hours. Assume you get stopped for no good reason and he asks you to blow because it's now midnight or whatever his bs is but you know you are not DUI.

Would you blow into a CRican PBT? That's my original point. What's the probability he is going to report it accurately or shake you? PBT's don't have a print-out sequence like the desk mounted/stationary based units. It's your word against his. He could put a drop of mouthwash in the plastic blow tube and the results will be you are drunk as a skunk. Or he could do his own blow first, he could be stiff. More probably, if he's corrupt, he can just delete and say what he wants that it digitized.

If he's corrupt, probably not going to go thru that much trouble, doesn't need to, it's his word against yours. Pull a battery out or short it and it's back to .000 history. They're junk in the wrong hands.. Probably won't affect alot posters here, most guys having a ball in the gulch and if one leaves SJ, it is on a bus or a cab or fly Sansa/Nature Air, or a van or a tour. But there are guys who do drive, car rent often (like me) 7-8x a year, or own a car. This is important to us.

We ain't dealing with alter boys with the local police. The Transitos have a well documented and recently re-documented historical corruption problem with motoristrs on CR roads despite CR high authorities trying to prosecute them: http://www.insidecostarica.com/dailynew ... 042701.htm.

I've seen reports that their salaries are as low $450-500 per month, sad, and explains the problem. They take the job to make a buck, not the salary. And that was not atypical of American police in years gone by, less and less as salaries increased in the 1900-70's and more modern "scrutiny". I know.

If you feel you're getting messed with on a traffic stop, an I-phone audio recording? Now legal in my major state for police involvement.If you have the presence of mine I'd say do it, and then find out if that's legal under CR Eavesdropping law later. If it's not, only you know.

That's why I want to know if anyone knows what are the consequences for refusing to blow in CR.

I was the OP in this thread. Not defending drunk drivers. Hate them. Crazy dangerous people. A huge problem in CR contributing to CR having the highest vehiclular related mortality rate in the world, per capita.

But there is nothing wrong with having a few beers and driving. How about the dangers of texters, smokers, cell addicts, speeders, dopes who can't drive, unlicensed drivers, crazy people, seniors who should have quit years ago but are stubborn like our moms and dads, people eating their lunch, people checking their computer data, girls putting make-up on in the rear view mirrow, people putting different cd's in, endless, people chedcking on thier K*ds in the rear car seats (a real rarity in CR). The odds are for a statistician, but I doubt they are lower than for a guy who had 3 beers in an hour. I never had a DUI after a zillion years of cocktail hours. And, I have been stopped for other stuff when if I was stiff at those times I would have gotten pinched. And like DDD I had 62 months on the job until I get a different license.

I just wanted to know, and still do, what are the consequences of refusing to blow into a PBT in CR? Anybody know?