Control Tower Snafu or Who's on First?

LAdiablo · **Joined:** Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:48 pm **Posts:** 4583

Srilm wrote:

LaDiablo wrote:

flight back to LA in feb i saw a light aircraft pass just under the left wing of taca 604. it scared the shit out of me as it was the middle of the night and i was half conscious. the guy in front of me heard me gasp and turned around with a look like did you just see that? if it had been light i would have seen the pilots face.
is there any website or agency that keeps track of these near miss things that i can look it up?

Very common at LAX, and usually not a problem. TACA comes in from the south and often ends up on a low-altitude arrival that passes over Orange County and Los Alamitos. Even if you're not on that arrival, you still end up pretty low on final within 10 miles of the airport. Lots of small aircraft in this area at these altitudes. Controllers and pilots generally use 500 feet of vertical spacing. In the air, 500 feet looks CLOSE. In the LAX B airspace, it can even get closer because the controllers will keep the airliners at the floor of the B and the non-participating aircraft will operate just a couple hundred feet under the floor of the airspace. Since there is a transponder requirement in most of this airspace, if there had been a real collision hazard TCAS would most likely have commanded a maneuver that I guarantee you would have remembered.

As Pac said, visual separation is often used also and the close-spaced parallel runways at LAX are often used with heavy airliners just a few hundred feet apart. I was riding in a 767 landing on the south side (25R) a few months back and the 767 landing on the other runway (25L) was so close I couldn't see the whole airplane through my window.

SR

thanks for all the info. i would be guessing based on the timing but i doubt we had entered california airspace. there was still a good two hours of flight.
but yes i am sure if it was that close the maneuver to avoid would have been abrupt. that is providing the pilots were awake. :shock:

Pacifica55 · **Posted:** Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:21 pm

Once years ago I was riding the jump seat in a B-737 (right between and slightly behind the pilots), We were en route at FL350 (35,000') when we were issued traffic, a heavy jet, opposite direction at FL330. We spotted the heavy easily dead ahead with a closure rate of around 1000mph. We knew he was 2000' below us but it looked like we were going to meet head-on...bug, meet windshield.

I spent many years investigating aviation incidents/accidents. It is amazing comparing the pilot account of an occurrence with the radar data (which is very precise). Visual estimations of range are notorious inaccurate from my experience.

Is aviation safe? Anytime you take something soft made mostly of water, like a human, and propel it at 600mph there is the chance, however remote, that it will come to an abrupt stop with predictable results.

Californicationdude · **Posted:** Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:00 pm

why the shortage of controllers?

just curious, how long does it take to properly train a controller?

how much do they get paid in wages?

would the costs of an extra employee on a midnight shift impact the budget of a major airport?

thank you.

Pacifica55 · **Posted:** Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:50 pm

That is hilarious! As if management does not now which facilities are staffing single-person mids. Geez, the union was arguing that two person mids were necessary back before Bush tried to bust the union. The cost of the publicity campaign to try to keep the Administrator from looking like a tool probably cost more than staffing the mids with two people.

I love the reactionary posturing...so typical.

LAdiablo · **Joined:** Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:48 pm **Posts:** 4583

Srilm wrote:

And just for the record...

-------------------
I have directed all radar controllers to contact air
traffic control towers at those airports to confirm that there is a
controller prepared to handle the incoming flight.
------------------

I am a radar controller, and I have recieved NO SUCH direction. I worked a mid-shift last night. Typical management idiocracy.

SR

jesus they need to call ahead and schedule an appt. with a controller? that is just shocking anyone would suggest it is the solution. peoples lives are at stake.

LAdiablo · **Joined:** Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:48 pm **Posts:** 4583

starting to become common place?

AP

RENO, NV -- The chief executive of a Nevada airport says a medical flight with at least three people aboard was forced to land without help from air traffic control after the lone controller on duty didn't respond to repeated contacts from the plane and airport staff.

Reno-Tahoe International Airport chief Krys Bart tells The Associated Press no one was hurt in the incident about 2 a.m. Wednesday.

Bart says she was told one air traffic controller was on duty in the tower at the time. Bart says she doesn't know the status of the controller.

Bart says the Federal Aviation Administration has been notified and she has been promised a full investigation.

The Piper Cheyenne plane is a twin engine turboprop with seating for five.

(Copyright Â©2011 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

Californicationdude · **Posted:** Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:56 am

now it appears that there are immediate orders for two controllers (minimum) at all times......

but, I am curious, could some of the members that work in the controller field or have knowledge of the profession, describe a typical work week or schedule.

swing shifts?.....12 on/12 off...?....quick turn arounds...?....what kind of schedules are common?

also, is the standard wages/salary around 160K annually for controllers?

this would be decent wages in major metropolitan areas and absolutely great money in lower cost areas.

thank you for all the replies to this thread.

Californicationdude · **Posted:** Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:11 am

great info. thanks. always good to hear stuff from those in the know.

now that the manning scales have increased, and lots and lots of controllers are retiring, how many new controllers could be hired in the next year or two?

does the number of 15,000 plus new controllers sound correct?

how will they bring so many new ones on board at the same time?

I am way past the retirement age, but how does on get the chance to work as a controller?...what kind of background is needed, or will they train anyone with the aptitude to pass the training?

Californicationdude · **Posted:** Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:52 pm

excellent article/link

thanks for the insightful post.

Californicationdude · **Posted:** Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:41 pm

I am curious as to benefits....what kind of vacation time is accrued each year.....do you get uncontested sick days/personal days....?....how many a year...?

overtime rules......time and a half?....double time?.....

how do you guys work holidays...?....double/triple time?......

how about medical coverage for single or family coverage?

pension benefits...?....matched contributions?.....just standard 401K....?...how many years to vest and how early to retire with or without penalty...?

some of the engineer jobs I have worked in the past had some/similar type benefits,

JazzboCR · **Posted:** Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:48 pm

Brother Srilm has given an excellent overview of the Federal/Postal post-1984 retirement system--anyone thinking of entering this sector can use it as a baseline for benefits, pension possibilities, etc. That "mando 56 y/o retirement age" also applies to Federal LEOs as well and can't be waived (though you can buy back military service to add time to your pension timeline--for example I had 23 years actual service + 6 years MilDep buyback = 29 creditable years). One small caveat--the FERS (401k equivalent) has more investment choices than mentioned and the max one can contribute per year is $16500 (this resets yearly).

Californicationdude · **Posted:** Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:14 pm

Thank you Brothers....

ps...I would push for triple time for Holidays on the next contract.

:lol:

Pacifica55 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:03 pm

I see Fam flights are back...

Xman00 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:48 am

Ok what are FAM flights? must have missed this in the post, reread and missed it again sorry

Californicationdude · **Posted:** Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:01 am

Familiarization flights?

like checking out the flight from Miami to San Jose?

Every 6 months?.....not sure.

www.CostaRicaTicas.com

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