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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:28 pm 
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There seems to be a war going on between the airlines and the discount websites. I read about it yesterday and today I want to book a flight, and sure enought I am having some problems. AA seems to be the line involved in this. There could be others. Hotwire where I usually get good deals is giving me no flights at all. Other sites have directed me to AA's site. Is any one else having this problem and have any ideas on how to get around it?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:53 am 
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I don't see this as a big deal. Seems just go to a site such as mobbisimo or kayak or check the airline sites. Am I missing something ? Southwest , for example, has never participated and you have to go to their web site to find their fares.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:15 pm 
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Used Orbitz for my first trip down, figure I would get a better deal. Not the case, it actually was a few dollars more. What really bothered me was that I had to change the dates, and on top of paying the airlines fee, had to pay a $30.00 Orbitz fee. Since then I deal straight with the airline.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:00 am 
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Use Kayak and you wont have that problem. I always check the airlines directly if the website I'm using doesn't direct me there.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:11 am 
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The conflict between AA and Orbitz and Expedia is just the opening shot in attempt to make it very difficult for a traveler to find the cheapest fare. An article about this was in the online edition of Time today. If AA is successful and other major carriers follow their lead you will have to check every airlines website, that flies to your destination, individually to find the best fare and most convenient schedule..
Quote:
Thursday, Jan. 06, 2011
Why Travelers Could Lose in American Airlines' Online Ticket War
By Kayla Webly

An ongoing battle between American Airlines and online travel agents Orbitz and Expedia has played out for weeks with more fervor, unlikely alliances and backstabbing than the last season of The Apprentice. When American and Orbitz failed to reach terms on a new distribution agreement, the airline ordered its schedule dropped from the popular travel website on Dec. 21. Just a few days later, pre-empting its own distribution dispute, Expedia hid American's listings from search results, making it difficult but not impossible to book an AA flight on the website. Then, once Expedia's agreement with American ended Dec. 31, it dropped the carrier from the site, calling the airline's strategy "anti-consumer and anti-choice."

There's no question that part of American's motivation is to cut costs, which George Hobica, founder of Airfare Watchdog, says the airline is "desperate" to do. In bypassing the online travel agents, American saves on distribution costs, but can also raise its ticket prices more easily since its fares won't be displayed directly beside the fares of their competitors. (See the top 10 travel moments of 2010.)

And the airline may also be taking a lesson from its Dallas neighbor, Southwest Airlines. Southwest requires consumers go directly to its website to book a trip. That makes it more difficult for passengers to comparison shop, but Southwest has won customer trust, and loyalty, by delivering consistently low fares for decades rather than make consumers hunt them down. Capturing customers on it own website, also allows Southwest to get additional revenue from the ancillary items such as rental cars and frequent flier credit cards — a revenue stream American has undoubtedly taken note of.

At the heart of this kerfuffle is American's Direct Connect, a software system it has been pushing since December 2009 that bypasses the current global distribution systems (GDS) such as Amadeus, and Travelport that travel agents and web sites currently use to download schedules and fares. One GDS, Sabre Holdings Corp., a former American unit that was spun off in 2000, said on Jan. 5 that it will stop carrying American's flight information in August — a month ahead of when its contract with American is due to expire. Sabre's holdings include Travelocity.

Direct Connect, which Orbitz and Expedia have refused to adopt, would allow American to gain more control over its airfare search results. It all fits very nicely into American's goal to get middlemen to pay to distribute its listings, not the other way around. This way the airline could choose, at any moment, which fares and schedules to display and promote options that could generate more revenue for the company by letting it sell add-ons such as seats with more legroom. But it could also mean higher prices for travelers.

For its part, American insists its model will be better for customers. Cory Garner, American's director of distribution strategy, highlighted a perk of the system, saying customers would be able to view the total trip cost up front rather than be hit by fees on the day of travel. "Direct Connect gives customers visibility and control of their entire trip, especially the cost of the trip, as opposed to today's world where they can see only base fares," Garner told TIME. "Certainly there are disputes in the marketplace now, but I believe these are just growing pains." (See 20 reasons to hate the airlines.)

Still, American seems willing to lose passengers to get its way. "They're taking a huge risk here," says Kevin Mitchell, chairman of the Business Travel Coalition, which represents corporate travel departments. In a statement emailed to TIME, Orbitz spokesman Brian Hoyt reported the company generated about $800 million in sales for American in the last year. Based on that figure, Henry Harteveldt of Forrester Research estimates the much-larger Expedia generated about $1.6 billion in sales for American last year. (AA has total sales of more than $20 billion.) But in its Dec. 29 press release, American says it has seen a year-over-year increase in overall ticket sales since removing its listings from Orbitz — although traffic is generally improving for all major airlines.

Orbitz and Expedia maintain they will do just fine without American's business, making up for lost revenues by selling tickets for the airline's competitors. While Hoyt reported American accounts for about 5% of Orbitz's business, industry analysts suggest American accounts for as little as 1% of Expedia's business. That's because about 80% of Expedia's business comes from non-air products like travel insurance, hotels, cruises and rental cars. "Expedia has already diversified such that no single company can have an impact on their bottom line," Harteveldt told TIME. However, both Orbitz and Expedia's shares fell on Monday after Expedia dropped American.

For its plan to succeed, American has to convince its competitors to do likewise, which would force United, Delta and the others to create their own system, like Direct Connect and similarly thumb their noses at other distribution systems. It would not only mean the end of the price transparency that disciplines fares but it also could end some things that online travel agents do better than the airlines: flexible date search, last-minute deals on packages and coordinating multi-city trips where flying on different airlines for different legs is often more cost-effective. "It's already not that easy to find cheap airfare," says Airfare Watchdog's George Hobica. "This would just make it that much worse."

An industry survey conducted by the Business Travel Coalition at the end of 2010 shows, not surprisingly, that almost 98% of travel industry professionals don't want American's model. That doesn't necessarily mean the airlines will listen. "The reason we're fighting this is because this is an industry where competitors are often like lemmings," Mitchell says. "American used to be the largest in the world, so they're used to over-reaching and trying to impose their will on the marketplace." (Comment on this story.)

American happens to be very good at that sort of thing. The company, which is still in active discussions with Expedia, Orbitz and Sabre, has never been the kind that backs down from a fight. It has waged fare wars with competitors to protect its turf; it has used FAA regulations and legislation as a weapon against potential new rivals such as Virgin America. It has battled furiously and fractiously with its own employees. If the travel agents want a battle, American can certainly provide one.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:36 pm 
I can do CR without a wingman!

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I don't know how "they" are going to stop sites from posting carriers fares. There's a lot of services out there such as mobissimo, kayak, etc. I always check relevant airlines directly anyway.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:04 pm 
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Redfield10 wrote:
I don't know how "they" are going to stop sites from posting carriers fares. There's a lot of services out there such as mobissimo, kayak, etc.


How "they" could impact others was explained in the article. No one is saying it will happen but just that if AA has it's way it could happen.

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For its plan to succeed, American has to convince its competitors to do likewise, which would force United, Delta and the others to create their own system, like Direct Connect and similarly thumb their noses at other distribution systems. It would not only mean the end of the price transparency that disciplines fares but it also could end some things that online travel agents do better than the airlines: flexible date search, last-minute deals on packages and coordinating multi-city trips where flying on different airlines for different legs is often more cost-effective. "It's already not that easy to find cheap airfare," says Airfare Watchdog's George Hobica. "This would just make it that much worse."


Redfield10 wrote:
I always check relevant airlines directly anyway.


If you use a search engine like http://matrix.itasoftware.com/ you do not have to check every airline website individually. I am not sure how this scenario will play out with them because they do not sell tickets so are not a competitor for the airlines.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:56 pm 
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Again, it's gonna be hard to keep the public from finding out somehow which fares are most competitive. You just mentioned a way yourself, Irish D.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:07 pm 
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Redfield10 wrote:
Again, it's gonna be hard to keep the public from finding out somehow which fares are most competitive.


That is not the question. The question is will you be able to go to a central site and get all the fares for that market or will you have to go individually to each airline (ala Southwest) to get their fare to a particular market.

Redfield10 wrote:
You just mentioned a way yourself, Irish D.

What I said was"I am not sure how this scenario will play out with them because they do not sell tickets so are not a competitor for the airlines". At present their are still websites, including matrix ita, to go to that compare fares what AA is trying to do is eliminate them

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:19 pm 
I can do CR without a wingman!

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And what I'm saying is I wouldn't get worked up about not having any method at all to somehow find the best fare to a destination. I doubt it's going to come down to having to search tens of individual sites of airlines for the best fare. If it gets too difficult to price carriers, less people will fly and the whole industry will shoot itself in the wings.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:13 am 
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Now it's really getting crazy. In the period 3 to 5 months from now I am trying to book 2 trips to the DR and one to CR. When I started taking alternitive trips to these countries about 3 and a half years ago from where I am in Chicago my flight packages to the CR were in the mid to low 3's and sometimes as low as 2 and a half, but flights to the DR were just over 6. That's with no overnight layover, because I won't take those. Then about a year ago flights to the DR came down to the high 4's. Then 2 months ago when I booked a flight package to CR for next month, the best I could do was also the high 4's.

But now I see I can get flight packages to CR in the mid 3's again. But although I booked one of my flights to the DR for the high 4's just last week, I now can't find any flight packages to the DR without an overnight layover. Actually I saw one that was over 9.

But then as I was surfing around a site named Q-Trips came up. This had my flight to the DR in the upper 4's. But I have never seen this site before. Plus it was an AA-Cont combo packange which I have never seen before. So I am wondering if anybody has ever used this site or knows anything about it.


Last edited by Lomo on Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:55 pm 
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I too use Kayak. And I recommend it. Straight forward quick price searches. I have gotten used to using only a couple of airlines that I know have good prices to CR. I use Kayak and then from time to time, I check on the individual sites for the airlines. Bottom line, correct info and quick searches. The prices vary of course, that depends on things like the price of fuel and time of year. And American once told me that CR has input on how much they charge for the ticket. Makes sense. After the Earthquake in Sinchona, the tix came down in price. CR gov wanted more tourism dollars to help pay for the reconstruction.

Consider this just some info I've noticed in the last 3 years when I have averaged 6 yearly trips.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:00 pm 
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"it ( American airline) has used FAA regulations and legislation as a weapon against potential new rivals such as Virgin America."

I love that, I just hope we never hear from American CEO complain about government regulations unless he qualifies what he says to say he for against one that hurt him but for ones that limit ( hurt) his competitors

As for the search engines, several I review do not list all the airlines, so I already have to check several sites, But I buy my tickets direct from the airline in most cases.

However I do start at the Matrix .

emergency trip - 1 day notice-to Portland OR , Orbitz had my ticket at $250, but same seat with airline was over $900

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:01 pm 
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Xman00 wrote:
"...emergency trip - 1 day notice-to Portland OR , Orbitz had my ticket at $250, but same seat with airline was over $900


In this case it's still probably best to book with the airline if the they have a best fare/lowest price policy. In most cases you could book with the airline, jump through their low fare guarantee hoops (usually just a phone call) and get reimbursed for the difference and often also get a travel voucher for $50 or more towards a future flight. If for some reason your fare was not eligible, most airlines will give you a full refund within 24 hours of the initial purchase.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:26 pm 
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I use all the usual websites like Kayak,Sidestep,Mobissimo,ITA, but have found a new flight search engine that works well and is very flexible. Let me know what you think.

http://ca.skyscanner.com/

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