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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:55 am 
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I have tried to learn Spanish ten times over 20 years and quit every time. I finally broke through that first difficult stage, have no desire to quit, and I am learning more every day. You need to speak Spanish. There is no way around it. Stuff the excuses and make a plan. I have tried many techniques and would like to give my opinion on what worked for me and what didn't. If you are a smart guy, but have a busy life and find maintaining motivation difficult then my tips may help you. This is how I made it an everyday part of my life. This is how I learned several hundred words and how to express what I want and need- but not by memorizing phrases. I can now speak a little Spanish- but by that I mean I can actually speak a little, as in express original thoughts and ideas (roughly). Once you get to this point the frustration vanishes. If you can make it to here you can go as far as you want. I am not claiming to speak Spanish well, nor have any experience in teaching. This is just how I managed to break through that first level without quitting (finally).

Step 1- remove all music sources from your car. All of them. CDs, satellite, antennas, everything. This step is critical if you're anything like me.

Step 2- Get a fun and engaging set of audio discs and put them in your car. They don't have to be particularly good, but they do have to interesting. I like Spanish in 10 Minutes per Day. The narrators are excellent and it isn't "immersion" style, so it won't overwhelm you. There are several lessons on each disc, and yes- they are roughly ten minutes long. I have also tried Behind the Wheel Spanish, Spanish for Dummies, and a couple of other audio sets. They are all OK, but Spanish in 10 MInutes per Day was superior for my purposes. Get the one you find amusing, not the one that will teach you the most Spanish. The tourist Spanish on these discs is not your goal, so it doesn't matter where these discs lead- they are only to increase your curiosity, provide a little vocabulary, and most of all get you in a routine that includes learning and practicing Spanish every day.

Step 3- After a month of CDs in the car you will start getting frustrated because you will be able to repeat a lot, but that's about it. That isn't bad frustration, that is good frustration. You are longing for a more comprehensive Spanish course and starting to feel held back by the tapes... good! Now get Rosetta Stone levels 1-5 all t once for about 700 bucks. Just do it. I know, 700 bucks, right? Do it. If you need to speak to a live person to practice, it has that. If you need to see pictures and build vocabulary, it has that. Need to learn the basic syllables that lead to better pronunciation? It has that, too. It isn't perfect, but it is pretty damn good. Start with an hour per night on Roseatta Stone. The program will only ask you to speak about 10% of the time. That's BS. Repeat everything they say, every time, and speak while you type written answers, as well. Speak Spanish, speak Spanish, speak Spanish, and don't put any music back in your car (well, a little Tejano in if you must, but no English).

Step 4- It has been about 8 weeks total since you decided to learn Spanish. Have you finished units 1 and 2 in Rosetta Stone level 1? That's halfway through 1 of 5 levels, or 10% of the way to being conversational (Rosetta Stone does not make you fluent, but is that really your goal?). Nice work so far. Now, buy a few boring basic Spanish books. McGraw Hill publishes the "practice makes perfect" series. They are cheap and straight forward. Stop doing an hour of Rosetta Stone every night. Start doing 45 minutes of Rosetta Stone and then 15 minutes of verb conjugation or other "basic skills" on paper. Try writing out all of the things you said during your Rosetta Stone session. Don't study from language instruction books more than a few minutes per day. If you're like me, that is the path to quitting.

Step 5- As you approach the 3 month mark in your journey, it is time to stockpile motivation. Take a trip to CR, or Colombia, or DR, or where ever. Make it someplace you have been before so that you can compare with your English only trips of the past. It will be far more awesome now. You can discuss price and activities in Spanish. You can interact with hotel and restaurant workers, as well as drivers, all in Spanish. Yes- your Spanish is all present tense (e.g. Aprendo español) with a smattering of easy future tense thrown in (e.g. Voy a aprender más español). But that's OK. Your'e trying, and chicas around the world will be impressed that you are bothering to try. They will stop using their very limited English in bed. They will start to whisper, or say, or scream things in Spanish instead. This will make you very happy. This is your motivation. Stockpile it. Stockpile it a few times per night, and maybe once or twice in the morning. Be sure to stockpile that motivation good and hard- now go home and keep studying. Try to remember to use articles and prepositions instead of skipping them. Try to remember to skip pronouns when appropriate instead of using them. Those are two very big differences between Spanish and English and if you don't discipline yourself early, it will really slow you down. Training your brain to skip the pronouns takes time and practice- but do it. By this point you should be able to say "vamos a jugar en esta cama toda la noche" instead of "nosotros vamos a jugar en esta cama toda la noche". Is it perfect Spanish? Nope. But was that your goal? It isn't mine at least not right now.

Step 6- Keep on keeping on with that Rosetta Stone. You have knocked out some verbs with your McGraw Hill basic books, so now you need more nouns and adjectives. Buy some vocabulary flashcards. The best ones have words and sentences. Don't practice saying barco when you see a picture of a boat. Instead say "Voy a comprar un barco verde" or something else interesting. Write it down. See if you remembered to assign your adjectives the proper sex- we don't do that in English and it is really easy to forget. Keep a scratch pad of all of the things you are trying to say- if you are expressing your own thoughts then you won't be able to use a book to easily check yourself. You will need a buddy who speaks Spanish to look over your scratch pad once in a while and tell you if there are any mistakes. Perfection isn't the goal. Communication is the goal. Try buying K*ds books- you won't learn a lot of vocabulary that way, but K*ds books have amazing flow and meter. You should be able to knock out "huevos verdes y jamón" pretty easily now. It isn't about any one thing- you need Spanish in your day to day life, and there is no single magic method (not even Rosetta Stone, which is pretty awesome). My very last piece of advice is to buy "10 años con Mafalda". That is a compilation of a decade of a very popular comic strip. By now you will be able to "get" about half of the jokes. Stop and congratulate yourself. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to understand humor in another language? You are doing it, and this time you aren't going to quit- and that's about as far as I can help you get.

Step 7- I can't help you here. Step 6 is as far as I have come. I am continuing my Rosetta Stone daily, and still listen to Spanish CDs in the car. I think I am past the dangerous time for quitting. I didn't claim I knew how to teach you Spanish- only how to get you past the frustration stage. I enjoy my Rosetta Stone time every night at this point. It isn't a burden. I read Mafalda with my morning coffee. I watch ESPN and the news in Spanish- but I won't lie, without the images I would be lost (I cannot, for example, listen to Spanish radio and catch everything). I am not conversational yet, but I can get by, and I am learning more every day and it is no longer frustrating. The point is that I broke past the quitting stage, and you can do. Good Luck.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:08 am 
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Thanks, I needed a bit of a push. I think I am a little behind you and doing most of what you say other than the Rossetta Stone part. Perhaps that is why I am behind you. lol

But Like you, I have started and stopped, many times. And today I needed the push you just gave me.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:36 pm 
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Great motivational post. I have been trying to learn Spanish for the last 10 years.
Still struggling to get into a daily routine. Glad to hear your success story.
I will try to emulate it but I confess to cringing at the thought of shelling out $700 for the Stone.
Lets see ......

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:00 pm 
Ticas ask me for advice!

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Fantasic post by Billy. As a former Spanish/ESL teacher, I can only suggest modest changes.

1. When you complete the, Spanish in 10 minutes a Day, book & CD, advance to Rosette Stone or the many other similar programs. Begin to search for a Spanish native-speaker who is learning English. Schedule an intercambio for 1/2 hour, at least 3X a week.

2. Listen to Spanish=speaking radio and TV. Focus on listening to the rhythms like music. After awhile, try to listen for words. Try to hear the structure of the language.

3. Incorporate opportunities to use Spanish into your daily routines. Small steps, leading to larger steps.

4. Remember not to overthink. Find a way to say what you want to convey. For example, don't worry about using the future-tense use, "Voy a..." I am going to...

5. Talk to Ch*ldren. They speak slower, are more understandable, and like the attention.

6. Be willing to make errors and laugh at yourself. Others will think better of you.

As you gain competency, the rewards will follow. Mainly internal, but Ticos will respond to you differently than before, mostly for the better. They will respect you greatly, and see you differently from other gringos. It's not that they look down upon non-spanish speakers as many are English-speaking, but they respect the effort you have made.

You will begin to learn more about Tico customs and habits, and the subtle ways of expression.

For those living here, let me know if you want to obtain, "Spanish in 10 minutes a Day" book. I distribute them here.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:08 pm 
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Whosear wrote:
Fantasic post by Billy. As a former Spanish/ESL teacher, I can only suggest modest changes.

1. When you complete the, Spanish in 10 minutes a Day, book & CD, advance to Rosette Stone or the many other similar programs. Begin to search for a Spanish native-speaker who is learning English. Schedule an intercambio for 1/2 hour, at least 3X a week.

2. Listen to Spanish=speaking radio and TV. Focus on listening to the rhythms like music. After awhile, try to listen for words. Try to hear the structure of the language.

3. Incorporate opportunities to use Spanish into your daily routines. Small steps, leading to larger steps.

4. Remember not to overthink. Find a way to say what you want to convey. For example, don't worry about using the future-tense use, "Voy a..." I am going to...

5. Talk to Ch*ldren. They speak slower, are more understandable, and like the attention.

6. Be willing to make errors and laugh at yourself. Others will think better of you.

As you gain competency, the rewards will follow. Mainly internal, but Ticos will respond to you differently than before, mostly for the better. They will respect you greatly, and see you differently from other gringos. It's not that they look down upon non-spanish speakers as many are English-speaking, but they respect the effort you have made.

You will begin to learn more about Tico customs and habits, and the subtle ways of expression.

For those living here, let me know if you want to obtain, "Spanish in 10 minutes a Day" book. I distribute them here.



I was going to post something like that; Gringos are proud people who hate to look foolish and the key to learning any language is using it, which means you gonna make mistakes and look stupid, but if you just grin and bear it you will get better. :D

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:29 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
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Immersion is the key for most. Definitely for me. I will learn spanish when i am firmly in-country. i have learned 3 languages, but lost it all in the USA after 3 months.





just curious, what part of the USA were you in where you were not immersed in spanish?

I too thought I would lose a lot of my spanish skills when I left the foreign country of beautiful, downtown SoFla and moved back to beautiful, downtown Washington, DC area......but I was surprised to find my spanish almost in as much demand here.



:lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:22 pm 
Masters Degree in Mongering!
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I have original Rosetta Stone 1,2,3 Spanish that I bought a few months ago.

I will be in SJO first week of Dec.

If anyone is savy enough to copy, let me know and I will bring down for you. $ minus $700 :wink:

I guess it works, if you use it :oops: :oops: :oops:


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:42 pm 
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I bought Rosetta Stone 1-5 from a guy on craigslist for $120. There are also torrent sites where you can get it for free.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:15 pm 
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This is a great post - I would only modify to say - start with the motivational trip - spend your time with only spanish speaking people. If you run into english speaking chicas move on. Spend all of your time in bars and bed with spanish speakers. Within 2 days - you will be fluent in Phucking - spend enough time in bars- you will be fluent in drinking - spend more time in bars you will be fluent in fighting as well.

Within one short week - you will be able to drink, fight, and phuck!!!!! Then buy Rosetta Stone and do all that other shit.

Peace, Love, and hablando espanol para todos,

Don Rico


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:00 am 
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For those who want to get REALLy serious, welcome to the world of FSI. Created for emabasy workers- both the progrmatic and basic courses (created ten years apart), do an outstanding job of teaching advanced gramatical patterns, which are what leads to conversational fluency. Work through the workbook and listen to the tapes, and watch your Spanish fly...

Also make sure to work on improving voca through word lists, reading, and electronic or physical flashcards...

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:26 am 
Masters Degree in Mongering!
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I was only sayin....don't spend the $, I'll give it to you for free.

Cujo will kill me but... It's all about the love bebe, en espanol o en english :wink:

If u cant get laid in...fk it...


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:34 pm 
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Hank Daman wrote:
For those who want to get REALLy serious, welcome to the world of FSI. Created for emabasy workers- both the progrmatic and basic courses (created ten years apart), do an outstanding job of teaching advanced gramatical patterns, which are what leads to conversational fluency. Work through the workbook and listen to the tapes, and watch your Spanish fly...

Also make sure to work on improving voca through word lists, reading, and electronic or physical flashcards...



Forgot tyhe link..Yes, it is free
http://fsi-language-courses.org/Content ... ge=Spanish

Also, there is no such things as an "exotic" verb form. The more one learns, the more they realize how each tense and "mood" is needed to express yourself fully, and to understand all media (i.e. literature, news, ect) fully. If all you want to do is express how you want you wee wee spanked- no need for anything other than the present, past and mabye a bit of the future. For more interersting posibiliites, the more fluent you are, the more enjoyable our game is. At least that is my expereince.

I think anyone will find that if you run trough either of the FSI programs, you will improve greatly.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:23 pm 
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Hank Daman wrote:
For those who want to get REALLy serious, welcome to the world of FSI. Created for emabasy workers- both the progrmatic and basic courses (created ten years apart), do an outstanding job of teaching advanced gramatical patterns, which are what leads to conversational fluency. Work through the workbook and listen to the tapes, and watch your Spanish fly...

Also make sure to work on improving voca through word lists, reading, and electronic or physical flashcards...


This is on the FSI site:
Quote:
Welcome to fsi-language-courses.org - the home for language courses developed by the Foreign Service Institute.

These courses were developed by the United States government and are in the public domain.

This site is dedicated to making these language courses freely available in an electronic format. This site is not affiliated in any way with any government entity; it is an independent, non-profit effort to foster the learning of worldwide languages. Courses here are made available through the private efforts of individuals who are donating their time and resources to provide quality materials for language learning.


This is the general link for all languages:
http://fsi-language-courses.org/Content.php

Have you used FSI? Would you say it's best for intermediate and advanced learners rather than for beginners?

Hank Daman wrote:
Also, there is no such things as an "exotic" verb form. The more one learns, the more they realize how each tense and "mood" is needed to express yourself fully, and to understand all media (i.e. literature, news, ect) fully.


True to an extent. There are verb tenses that are just not used very often in everyday speech, and in some languages there are verb tenses that are only used in literature. Of course if fluency is your goal, then all are necessary.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:19 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
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8ball wrote:
I bought Rosetta Stone 1-5 from a guy on craigslist for $120. There are also torrent sites where you can get it for free.

Here's one such listed in this Thread. A free registration site that I haven't tried lately:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34195&hilit=megaupload
Here's another Thread with embedded link:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33586&p=373528&hilit=megaupload#p373528

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:44 pm 
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Kickstand wrote:
Hank Daman wrote:
For those who want to get REALLy serious, welcome to the world of FSI. Created for emabasy workers- both the progrmatic and basic courses (created ten years apart), do an outstanding job of teaching advanced gramatical patterns, which are what leads to conversational fluency. Work through the workbook and listen to the tapes, and watch your Spanish fly...

Also make sure to work on improving voca through word lists, reading, and electronic or physical flashcards...


This is on the FSI site:
Quote:
Welcome to fsi-language-courses.org - the home for language courses developed by the Foreign Service Institute.

These courses were developed by the United States government and are in the public domain.

This site is dedicated to making these language courses freely available in an electronic format. This site is not affiliated in any way with any government entity; it is an independent, non-profit effort to foster the learning of worldwide languages. Courses here are made available through the private efforts of individuals who are donating their time and resources to provide quality materials for language learning.


This is the general link for all languages:
http://fsi-language-courses.org/Content.php

Have you used FSI? Would you say it's best for intermediate and advanced learners rather than for beginners?

Hank Daman wrote:
Also, there is no such things as an "exotic" verb form. The more one learns, the more they realize how each tense and "mood" is needed to express yourself fully, and to understand all media (i.e. literature, news, ect) fully.


True to an extent. There are verb tenses that are just not used very often in everyday speech, and in some languages there are verb tenses that are only used in literature. Of course if fluency is your goal, then all are necessary.


I really cannot seeak to FSI's usefullness for those at the begining,but I suspect it would be good in combination with a clase or self study of verb forms. I have used it, and it has moved me from an advanced to near the point where I can preform nearlly all work tasks in Spanish. The concept of fluency is complex and contested, so I won't go there.

As far as verb forms and moods, I had an interesting realization a few years ago. A Nica with a 6th grade education said she did not know what the subjenctive mood was, and claimed she ever learned it. However, she used it extremly frequently- she just did not know that he used it. At the very least, to really be able to understand excactly what someone is saying at all times, you really have to understand, at least, all the verb forms, and have a heck of a vocabulary...I work on mine daily..

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