www.CostaRicaTicas.com

El T,

I did not mean to make it sound like I'm the great white knight defender of TV working "girls" nor did I mean to make it sound like I thought these "girls" were model citizens. I find them creepy too. All I meant to say was they're certainly no worse than any other denizen of the streets and probably actually more harmless IN GENERAL than most.

OTOH, your read on that A.M. Costa Rica article was entirely different from mine to the point that I wonder if we were even reading the same story. Let's start with the article's title "Police sweep directed at city's unpopular workers". The complaints you have made about fights and robberies and drug dealing could just as easily be made against ANY of the denizens of the street, not just the Trannies. In fact, one could easily argue the problem is far WORSE amongst the regular tico men whose PRIMARY source of income is drug dealing and robbing rather than mainly by turning tricks. However, this sweep was "directed" specifically at these "workers" rather than those guys whose sole "work" is the robbing and dealing that you refer to or even towards the street population as a whole.

Next you quote the article as saying that "about fifty people were interviewed" and that among those interviewed were not just transvestites, but "security guards, those who watch vehicles and apparent female prostitutes." You then seem to conclude that because "not all the transvestites were interviewed and not everyone interviewed was a transvestite" that the Trannies were not really the sole target of the sweep. However, how many heterosexual gangmembers, drug dealers and other ladrones were detained and questioned? It seems that the only non-trannies who were questioned, were not really any other suspect or target of the sweep but rather only potential witnesses against the trannies themselves.

Then you mention how the article also talks about "one case, [in which] a transvestite prostitute was stabbed to death by a man who arrived in a pickup truck near Hospital Clinica Biblica." and state that "We really don't know if this had anything to do with the operation." Aparently, you failed to understand the entire context of that remark. Actually, we know that it DIDN'T have anything to do with this latest operation because the article also said "A week later the man returned in the same truck seeking to pick up a prostitute." And, in fact, "Friends of the murder victim quickly pointed him out to the police." The thing that we actually don't know is whether the police did anything about it when the victim's fellow trannies pointed the murderer out to the police handing him to them on a silver platter. My guess is that they probably did nothing. The point that the author of this article was actually trying to make with that specific case was that Trannies are "sometimes are objects of violence. Several have been killed in recent years, presumably by customers who act out of self contempt." and that there "are lesser humiliations every night." "Sometimes [some in the Tranny community] respond by roughing up passers-by and doing small-scale street robberies." but clearly the authors viewpoint seems to be that the Trannies themselves are as often as not the victims of crime rather than just the perpetrators. Of the stories you read of guys being robbed on the street, how many of them are actually robbed by Trannies and how many are robbed by "normal" crooks? My guess is that robberies by Trannies probably makes up a relatively small portion of the total crime.

Finallly, you state that "As far as use of resources is concerned, AM Costa Rica does not say how many police were involved in the operation. It could have been fifty. It could have been five. We don't know." My own guess is that it probably was more than 5 if they were able to interview as many as 50 people. But whatever number it was it was still probably a waste of whatever resources were spent. Despite all those detentions and questioning, NOT ONE arrest was made. If the sorts of crimes that you claim are so rampant among the TV's, really are that rampant, one would think that these Keystone cops would have managed at least one arrest. and even if it were just 5 cops involved, the time of those 5 cops could have been much better spent seeking out and disrupting congregations of youth gangs and/or suspicious persons loitering on the streets with no apparent purpose. At least you know the TV's are there mainly to turn tricks, but what business does a young normally dressed male have hanging out on the street (not going anywhere) during late hours?

So much for your reading of the A.M. Costa Rica article, but what about your charges of "damned-if-you-and-damned-if-you-don't" hypocrisy in regard to some of our views towards police actions. No one said the police haven't done ANYTHING AT ALL about the problem of crime in the Gulch (and elsewhere). What they have suggested is that the police have clearly not done nearly enough, since a serious problem persists. A big reason for that is not completely the police's fault, namely the limited resources they have to work with (and also significantly a struggling economy and the transfer of drugs through CR on its way to the US). However, the thing they're doing here with regards to the Tranny sweeps really doesn't do anything to protect us (especially because, even IF the trannies were responsible for all the crime on tourists in the Gulch, they were all back about and on the streets the following night) and especially because the police resources are so LIMITED that it makes ANY waste of those resources (which is how I'd characterize these fruitless efforts against the Trannies) particularly egregious.

Pro,

I'll give you that my suppositions about the Clinica Biblica incident were a bit of a stretch, if you give me that your "First they talked to the Trannys..." vision of Costa Rica's very own Hitlerette (kind'a, sort'a) is also a bit of a stretch.

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It's faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, and more money--Tom T. Hall
No man is a failure who is enjoying life--William Faulkner

I MIGHT give you that my "First they talked to the Trannys..." vision was a bit of a stretch, IF I knew what the heck you were even referring to or you could tell me where I ever even said anything about "First they talked to the Trannys..." I did a word search for "talk" on the last page just to make sure I wasn't crazy and the only instances of that word that turned up were in your post.

I was referencing the famous Martin Niemöller quote:

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up."

and thought that you were pretty much saying the same thing:


Comparing the police action the other night to Nazi Germany seems like a stretch to me. But, who knows, you might be right. Maybe they'll come for me one day.

Meanwhile, I'm gonna watch the Celtics beat the Lakers.

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It's faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, and more money--Tom T. Hall
No man is a failure who is enjoying life--William Faulkner

Bob:

You're not thinking this through. Looking at it strictly from your point of view if they were to close the bars and MPs there would still be a huge supply of young ladies in need of financial assistance. You said many times that you're not a big fan of MPs and let's face it most nights your home by dark. So the biggest effect the worst case scenario would have on you is you would have to hire a young lady to answer your phone for you because it would be constantly ringing with young ladies wishing to provide you with company in exchange for a very reasonable amount of cash. If they close everything down just another reason to move to San Jose.

Lee

_________________
PS: DO NOT SEND MONEY!

El T,

At least, we're in agreement on the Celtics, though its not looking particularly good for our team at the half.

But as far as the subject at hand, if there is a bit of a stretch going on here it is in comparing what I said to Martin Niemöller. First of all, I think I made it quite clear that there was a major difference in degree. You conveniently neglected to "bolden" the part of my quote immediately before the part you did where I said that "'the Rodent' is not sending these transvestites to any extermination camps". Secondly, I never said Chinchilla was going to work her way up Niemöller's hierarchy all the way to the Jews let alone to where no one is left to object. All she has to do, as far as us mongers are concerned, is work her way up to us, and unfortunately that is not a huge stretch from the tranny SW's for her (or her many supporters among the Tico citizenry).

All that I WAS suggesting was that there were certain similarities in their basic politically easy tactic of going after the most unpopular minority groups (ones with little or no political power) first before turning to somewhat more powerful minorities, not because any of those groups were actually doing anything illegal or harming anyone else but rather because of a) a personal prejudice against those groups and b) creating a bogeyman for the masses to blame for all their problems has always been a convenient way for demagogues to consolidate those masses behind them. In both cases one of the first groups that both leaders chose to demonize were the already unpopular gays (LGBTs). To that extent the analogy holds up very well. In the case of Hitler's Germany it was the communists, trade unionists, intellectuals and finally the Jews who were next. In Chinchilla's case it was (or will be) the MP's, casinos, bar girls and ultimately the foreign sex tourists themselves.

If my analogy breaks down anywhere it is that it has not been a perfect progression. First it was the smaller MP's, then the larger casinos. The independent bar girls at the HDR have LONG been the target of periodic immigration raids (usually netting little results other than to temporarily disrupt their work) though the number and pace of those may be on the increase. Most recently, they've also started to increasingly hassle gringo sex tourists over their immigration paperwork (even though, unlike foreign hookers, we bring considerable money into the CR economy and there is little evidence that there is any significant problem of any gringo sex tourists being in the country illegally). So in a sense they ALREADY ARE coming for us. Not to send us to any concentration camps or anything like that, but certainly to make it more of a hassle to come to CR to do what we do and to discourage us from coming back. The pressure is still somewhat limited and unlikely to dissuade many of us, but if that "progression model" is any guide the tactics and pressure could quite likely gradually increase until either they acheive what they're after OR (hopefully) the pendulum starts to swing back the other way.

Hypothetically speaking off course, It someone picked up a tranny on a corner and later returned that said tranny to the same corner, assuming the tranny didn't rob the guy and the guy didn't kill the tranny (out of self contempt), there would be no need to give the tranny taxi money, right ? Wait what it the client was a taxi, Could he keep the meter on and deduct it from the tranny-fee ?

Where do trannys go during the day ?

Does prison gay count ? Ok , what if you weren't in prison but only in local detention for about an hour ?

Do Colombian trannys charge more for less in CR than they do in their home country ?

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* These are the "Good Ole Days". Enjoy Them.

* RENT but, "Don't Buy a Home in Costa Rica" until you have lived here for THREE years.

Interesting questions Brother ICSA poses, even if he was kinda pulling our collective legs (the 2 longer ones, gang).
Somebody here ex-LE need to back this up, and I understand the deep divide between OIJ investigators and the FP, but wouldn't it have been smarter if actual police work were intended, to have gathered some intel (undercover or otherwise) before proceeding with a mass sweep of this nature? Therefore, one can reasonably conclude the object was purely and simply harassment, playing to the press and the sweaty masses.
It's the nature of demagogues to appeal to some mass group that they are the only answer to whatever that society's ills are AND to demonize some other group as "The Anti-Christ". Most start relatively benignly but as first efforts don't solve the problems (which they rarely do--the demonized are rarely the sole or root cause), these demagogues increasingly move on to harsher, more desperate methods and new targets. They frequently cloak themselves as reformers (and may actually start that way, then get corrupted by power). Prime examples: Huey Long in Louisiana and Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe. They can come from any part of the political spectrum.
BTW, I hereby rescind any comparison between a sitting President and a psychopathic German leader. I just broached that in the first place as a demonstration of the "slippery slope" theory but was widely misunderstood. I do appreciate the Rev. Niemoller quote--that is a universal truism.

_________________
"A man accustomed to hear only the echo of his own sentiments, soon bars all the common avenues of delight, and has no part in the general gratification of mankind"--Dr. Johnson
"Amen, brother"-ED

DAMM

NYG

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Damm that water is cold!!!
And deep too!!!

No wonder Spanky never posts any of his pictures.

_________________

Living well is the best revenge
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwUtj_YnNoY

NYG,

I was thinkin the same thing too when I read that, but figured it might be best for all those involved to just let that statement pass. Now I'm thinking it might be interesting, if just to satisfy our sordid curiousities, if we did like livincr suggested and snap pictures of the CRTers in question and posted that along with their handles here on CRT (though then we wouldn't be any better than the authorities who are harassing and victimizing that community).

I HAD always figured it was mostly local tico men who went for these trannies OR perhaps the occasional openly GAY sex tourist. Yes, they do have GAY sex tourists and there is a surprisingly large number of them in CR, which is one of their favored destinations also, though my understanding was that they mostly stay with their own travel "partners" in places like Manuel Antonio rather than hang out in SJ. OTOH, the Scotland Apartments had been known as one of their favored places to stay while in SJ (and the Cafes Mundo and Olio their favored restaurants). Frankly, that's a whole 'nother underworld that I'll confess I just don't understand or know much about.

Anyway, were these CRTers who were seen partaking of the Trannies newbies who didn't know what they were getting or experienced vets who swing both ways and really were looking for something different? Would they care if they were "outed" for picking up a Tranny and should we even care ourselves who they are? Talk about the "walk of shame" only this time the shame would come from being seen by their fellow mongers rather than by disapproving eco-tourists.

OK guys it's time to "fess up"... I am not now,nor have I ever been a member of the Communist party,or any other party hosted by men who prefer to dress like women,or surgically alter their bodies to please those persons who are attrracted to such enhancements.

Passed a couple,getting it on last sunday nite,they were in the shadows of ice bldg.....on the way to castillo...i think i disturbed them...my wingman said one was a tranny....i just kept on walking..

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Jaco is called little USA by all ticos

The gay sex tourist are typically not looking for trannies. I was in no way talking about "outing" any CRT members. To each his own. My point was they are out there becasue they do get business.

Most of the noise is the result of young Ticos on the way back from El Pueblo stopping and yelling insults at the Tranny's and them responding.

Brother Jazzbo and I were coming back from an evening of drinking and music and did see a guy benidng over a tranny and giving it to Her/He right on the sidewalk.

To my knowledge the park incident s of tranny muggings seem to have stopped a few years ago. There have been no recent reports that I am aware of.

BKTUNA/Boyd
I am never going home

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BKTUNA/Boyd
I am never going home

As I said, I don't know much about the travel-habits of the gay sex tourists but figured they mostly brought their own partners with them and went elsewhere in CR. I should also clarify that I wasn't really being serious about outing any CRTer. I agree, to each his own.

But mostly I wanted to say that I'm glad you clarified that the noise you were complaining about earlier was as much the fault of regular ticos hassling the Trannies (and the Trannies responding) as anything else. This underscores what the AM Costa Rica article was alluding to about the Trannies being subject to a lot of scorn, humiliation, discrimination and persecution. Again, it should be noted that the police sweep was directed entirely at the Trannies who are mainly just trying to mind their own business (and those in a position to see what the Trannies are doing) rather than at the young drunken hooligans who are hassling them and probably are really the ones committing most of the crimes that occur in that area late at night. So I'm also glad that you added that the perception of the Trannies as the source of much of the robberies that go on after dark is based on old and outdated information if it ever even was a significant portion of the robberies at all.

Your take on the behaviors of the Trannies is based on nightly firsthand close observation since you live and work directly in the heart of the area where the Trannies hang out and so I would be a lot of stock in what you have to say on the subject. Your description is in marked contrast with this depiction by El T:I've never seen the trannies congregating in groups of 50 or more every night in a relatively nice neighborhood, making noise continuously late into the night (though that description might as easily and accurately be applied to the mongers at the SL bar). They do hang out in smaller groups (for mutual protection) and they do shout back in response to taunts by drunken homophobic young ticos. They don't get into fights with each other any more so than the gangmembers who also hang out in that neighborhood and probably much less so. Though they probably do have to occasionally fend off assaults by their clients (like the one in the pick-up) and/or homophobic gay-bashers (like the young ticos BK described). And any incidents of robbing and drug-dealing amongst the Trannies is also probably far less common than it is amongst those gangbangers. Or at least there haven't been any recent reports about Trannies being involved in those things even as the amount of those sorts of crimes occurring late at night in those neighborhoods continues to be very high. So IMHO the above depiction by El T is a prime example of the sort of unfair and higly inaccurate stereotyping and prejudice that these Trannies face and which is used as by pols like Chinchilla as an excuse to persecute them further.