www.CostaRicaTicas.com

Thanks to Alfred Kahn there is basically no regulation of the airline industry. For all those who waved the "free market banner" and cheered the demise of the CAB and the prospect of a "competition" fare structure they might rethink their position when they pay all these new fees that make the low competition fares not so low anymore.

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Pura Vida
Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four
essential food groups:
alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat.
Alex Levine

Maybe it's a bunch of BS from the CEO of Spirit, but I saw part of an interview with him on CNBC a day or two ago. He said that the average ticket price would decline by the cost of the checked baggage. I find it hard to believe, but we will see. He claimed that the extra weight on the flight adds to their cost and the people who bring 1 tiny carry-on bag are paying more than they should.

Unfortunately, Spirit is the only option out of Ft. Lauderdale. Probably still worth the extra cost instead of flying out of Miami for those of us who live in the West Palm area.

I guess one of them is trying to test out the strength of his molars...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36392217/ns/travel-news/

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Enzo

Now in High Definition!

Yeh right...who the hell is that???? One out of a hundred. i fly Spirit to LGa 2X a month and I see whats going on...the very people who are gonna shop around for low fares and endure their no-space coach seats are gonna stuff what they can into a carry-on to avoid the checked baggage fees. Now maybe they have backed us rats into the corner with this new proposed carry-on fee ...

And u know the other carriers are salivating at this to see if Spirit can pull it off...

if what LionKing said is correct Im a little worried. If they are slacking off on their payments what else are they slaccking off on... it does seem sometimes that no one gives a shit and no one is in control on board...Hell they dont even bother to see if your electronic devices are turned off anymore...

Its tough to make a buck right now. If you are in business you know it. Spirit needs to make money too and I don't fault them for it... I just can't stomach the bullshit like they are doing it all to save ME money...please! It's like these credit cards like discover who over you a low interest rate on a balance transfer then charge a 5 percent transaction charge....i guess there are a lot of suckers out there!

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Why settle for just one woman when you can enjoy them all?

Lets see. We are fighting a war in Afghanistan, we are concerned that Iran is developing a nuclear weapon and have to figure out how to stop that, we have maybe a million people loosing their homes, unemployment is at records levels, the Senate is going to have confirm a new for life Supreme Court Justice who decisions might change the way we live, etc, etc, etc, and this clown wants to take valuable time away from these problems to pass legislation dealing with a business making an unpopular business decision.

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Pura Vida
Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four
essential food groups:
alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat.
Alex Levine

[/quote]

if what LionKing said is correct Im a little worried. If they are slacking off on their payments what else are they slaccking off on... it does seem sometimes that no one gives a shit and no one is in control on board...Hell they dont even bother to see if your electronic devices are turned off anymore...[/quote]

I would be a little worried since this did come from the Pilots mouth. He is already looking at other airlines to work for before anything hits. Maybe the airlines will get some bailout money. lol On the other hand, it seems like all the Pilots are worrying about one thing or the other. Air Safety is the most talked about topic with these guys, and if there worried I'm worried.

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"You can only keep a secret between two people if the other one is dead." Ben Franklin

Deregulation may have created a crazy free-for-all with an impossible to understand rate structure (may have? it did do all that), HOWEVER before you rethink your position based solely upon the relatively recent emergence of various nickel and dime fees you should ALSO consider a few OTHER facts.

Before 1978 (when Kahn oversaw deregulation as chairmen of the CAB), today's bargain basement no-frills airlines didn't even exist. Back then the market structure of the airline industry was much more oligopolistic, with regulators essentially splitting the market between a relative few major carriers and approving sufficiently high fares to cover their costs. Secondly, I'm pretty sure if you compare the average airfare back then ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION with the current airfares (even with all the assorted new fees included), you'll find that current airfares are still a relative BARGAIN. In fact, if you look at the more recent upsurge in the cost of jet fuel (probably the largest component of the airline's expenses) relative even to overall inflation, it is surprising that airfares haven't risen even more so recently than they actually have (again, even including the various fees).

It is an undisputable fact that deregulation led directly to greater competition and the airline price-wars, which actually has not been so great for the airlines but has been fantastic for general public. Since each airline had to LOWER their own fares to match the competition, those price wars meant lower revenue ppm without any corresponding increase in total passengers and as a result formerly profitable airlines were suddenly operating at a loss. This in turn lead to several of the original market giants going completely out of business (such as PanAm, TWA, Eastern, etc.) AND the emergence of fresh start-ups (such as Spirit, JetBlue, RyanAir, etc.) who were able to compete by keeping their costs way down to match their fares. The direct effect of deregulation, all these lower fares and new competitors has actually been to open up air travel to a much wider segment of the public due to greater affordability. The more recent move by most airlines to increase their revenue by adding these various fees is very unfortunate for us travelers (especially for those us who don't really remember the pre-deregulation era), but is also an unfortunate necessity for the airlines in order to return to some level of profitability (particularly in the face of more recent increases in jetfuel costs and other expenses). The only other alternative is for more of these airlines to fold and that really doesn't help any of us.
---------

THAT SAID, despite the logical and really inescapable necessity for the airlines to raise their revenues enough to somehow cover their costs, I really think the way they're sometimes going about it is really phucked up. I can appreciate establishing or raising special fees for some things that most travelers can easily choose to do without (like seat selection, pre-boarding or check-in luggage). But how can most travelers manage to travel without even a small carry-on bag (particularly if they don't check any bags) or sit through a long plane flight without once having to use the rest room? Okay, I'll grant you that they should enforce the EXISTING size and weight limits for carry-on since many travelers have simply resorted to packing more in their carry-on bags to avoid check-in fees rather than actually reduce the total amount that they choose to carry. I'll also grant you that, at least for SHORT flights, it should be simple enough for most passengers to relieve themselves in the so far free restrooms at the airport before they board their plane (much as out parents always told us to do before long car trips when we were K*ds). But that is about as far as I'll go.

If the charge is for a component of service that can not easily be avoided then it should be included in the BASE amount you pay for the ticket. Anything else is just a cynical way of trying to disguise the fact that you really AREN'T the "low-cost" airline that travel search engines suggest you are. In fact, how can we really rely on travel search engines anymore when we're no longer comparing apples and apples, when a "low-cost" airline like Spirit comes out ahead of its competitors on search engine results only because the "low-cost" they quote doesn't include all the things that the other airline might, such as at least 1 free checked on bag, seat selection, a rest-room without a coin slot and a free coke and a 2nd bag of peanuts ?

For the CEO to suggest they're doing this in order to be able to lower the price a person with only minimal carry-on has to pay is complete disingenuous bullshit. First of all, if that person has only a tiny carry-on it is probably only because they CHECKED everything else. And if they checked everything else they probably had to PAY for those checked bags. All this really does is force you to pay one way or the other, while at the same time POSSIBLY allowing Spirit to lower the BASE fare that the consumer has to (or would have had to) pay and that they can put on search engines in order to still SEEM to come out ahead of everyone else.

Last comment, at the risk of stirring the ire of some of our heavier members, one of the rationales you sometimes hear for raising rates on check-in and now carry-on bags is the extra weight and space they take up. I'm NOT suggesting they start charging more for overweight passengers (unless perhaps they're so big that they can't even fit into the seat allotted), however my own weight and total cubic inches even WITH my carry-on bag is less than many of these guys I sometimes see on these planes even before their carry-on is added. SO, until they start charging those guys more, with or without any additional carry-on beyond their spare tire, I don't think it is really fair to use weight and space as a rationale for adding these new fees.

....I may be short, little, old, and fat...but my shoulders, ass, and hips fit into the smallest of airline seats. Keep your fat ass shoulders, ass, and hips on your side of the arm rest. Elsewise, I'll make it a point to lean into you for the whole fuckking trip; I might even spill my refreshing beverage in your direction.....

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"Actual happiness always looks pretty squalid in comparison with the over-compensations for misery. And, of course, stability isn't nearly so spectacular as instability. And being contented has none of the glamour of a good fight against misfortune, none of the picturesqueness of a struggle with temptation, or a fatal overthrow by passion or doubt. Happiness is never grand."
- Aldous Huxley, Brave New World, Ch. 16

Do you honestly think anybody wants your grizzly Adams self rubbing on them? At this point, be glad some women still exchange money for sex with you.


What's next from you, kissing advice?



Cujo

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"Pain is the fuel that fans the flames of my pyre. A battle plan is only as good as the general carrying it out on the field. This is my war son, and I have the biggest bombs and the smallest conscience"...

Why the hell the airlines don't just set rates where they can make a profit is a mystery to me. That's what most companies do. They have rates for air travel, so if you're not making a profit, your business model is messed up and you need to have ore profitable rates. Nickle and dimeing people to death for stuff like carry-ons, checked bags, using the bathroom, meals, etc is just going to piss them off. Raise your rates if you have to but don't charge them for things they have to have - luggage, a place to pee, something to drink on a long flight....

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Man I'm living life like a great white shark swimming with minnows! It's all about panocha, great scotch, fine cigars, loud-ass rock music and speed, speed, speed - plus spending as much time as possible in paradise on earth, Costa Rica!

I believe with some degree of certainty that it is because little boys and now girls are making their way up the company ladders....sometimes even being in charge (God help us) while us old guys who have put our own old asses out to pasture so as to "enjoy" what time we have left have created something of a brain drain.....and then there are the old asses amongst us who still want to work and control stuff, but are forced into the pasture by the little ones. These punks ride around in leased Lexus'; live in high fallootin "penthouses" (!!!); and are rather leveraged; they'll drown in that debt in the next many years, too....mark my words....*shrug*. They think they're business tycoons....."Say, James, let's start charging to take a piss on our planes....tee time is at 2:30pm today....."

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"Actual happiness always looks pretty squalid in comparison with the over-compensations for misery. And, of course, stability isn't nearly so spectacular as instability. And being contented has none of the glamour of a good fight against misfortune, none of the picturesqueness of a struggle with temptation, or a fatal overthrow by passion or doubt. Happiness is never grand."
- Aldous Huxley, Brave New World, Ch. 16

Cujo, I think Steven1's point was that if you DON'T want his "grizzly Adams self" rubbing on you, then damn well make sure you fit into your OWN seat and don't spill over into his. But you are right that he wasn't exactly painting a very pretty picture.

Steven1, before you spill that refreshing beverage on the jerk next to you, maybe you should consider that on your next flight you might be paying dearly for that formerly complimentary drink.

K-Pax, the economics of the airline industry is very complex but there are actually some very sound reasons why they price things the way they do. Its not like their basic dynamics operate exactly the same as other businesses. For one thing they HAVE to operate some flights at a loss or even mostly empty in order to re-position their planes so that they wind up in the right city for other flights, so even the fuel costs on those flights is really largely a fixed cost. For another thing, they have exorbitant fixed capital costs. Those fancy Airbus and Boeing jets cost a shitload of money and the purchasing decisions for them need to made years in advance. Sometimes their forecasts work out, but sometimes they're stuck with either planes they don't need, are too big, too small, not as fuel efficient as newer jets, etc. And the interest on those jets run whether they fly or not, or are full or not. Often it is better to run a plane half empty or to sell seats "below cost" in order to fill more seats, so that they can cover their variable costs and at least SOME of their fixed costs.

As for their newest "trick" of adding all these little surcharges and special nickel and dime fees, it may be as irritating as hell to us as the fare-paying public but they know EXACTLY what they're doing. It is their way to raise revenue while still being able to at least claim that they're keeping (base) fares down (and, not so incidently, keeping THEIR flights high up in travel search engine results). Sometimes they go way over the line, as they did when RyanAir first proposed charging for bathroom use and as Spirit might be doing now, but they're going to continue to try to push that line as far as they can without causing too much backlash. Part of it is also testing to see whether the other airlines will try the same thing, in which case it doesn't matter so much whether passengers are upset or not since they won't have much other choice. In a way this is sort of the flip side to the airfare wars of past decades, when one airline lowered prices and the others were essentially FORCED to match it, only this one is working in the other direction with the other airlines having a choice whether to try the same thing or not and the flying public possibly left with no other choices (other than perhaps to squeeze their legs together during the flight and wear the same clothes every day during their trip).

I agree with the point, why not just include basic necessities into the base fare and adjust the rate to make a profit?

Airlines like Virgin, who put a strong focus on customer service and providing the needs and wants seem to be doing OK. Airlines like JetBlue and Southwest who opted to not charge for ridiculous things seem to be turning profits.

Charging for every little item only works for so long. Eventually you push the limits to the point you lose the respect of your customers.

In Asia the owner of Air Asia airlines has a bunch of hotels out where you literally pay for everything. Turn the lights on and you have a rate for that. Watch TV? A rate for that. Didn't take a shower or use any towels? Cool, you don't get charged for them. Mind you it works, but it comes to a point where is this even really a vacation anymore; constantly having to watch what you do and prepare to avoid all these insane costs?

What seems to confuse me is these airlines constantly point back at the weight/extra fuel/cost argument. You check a 30 pound bag, so its more weight and thus costs more fuel. I get that. So everyone now somehow manages to take the bag they use to check into the cabin. I'm not that old but I remember when someone use to stop you before you boarded and check that your bag fit into the little metal casing. Whatever happened to that?

If weight is really the issue, and lets assume it is. Why the hell is a 120 pound girl paying the same as a 300 pound man? Why does my 10 pound checked bag cost the same as someones 40 pound checked bag? Why is my laptop bag cost the same as someones bareeeeely legal size carry on?

I understand this is America and we have laws and rights groups for every imaginable thing. But if weight is such an issue why not go OK your allowed a passenger weight of 175 pounds, anything after that its 1$ per pound, permitting you can still fit in the seat. If you can't fit in the seat, you will be forced to pay for 2 seats, and thus the 1$ per pound over restriction will be waved ( assuming you dont weigh over 350lbs). There, you get to charge your stupid fee's, and your not jewing over the clientelle that is really causing you no issues.

On the issue of washrooms, I could care less if they charge for that. Even on my Asian flights I usually take a piss before I go, and don't get up during the flight. But, if they start charging for the washroom maybe it will cut down on the assholes who feel the need to get out of their seat every 10 minutes. They could offer FF travelers 1-3 washroom tokens when they check in to avoid any loyalty issues, much like they do with drink coupons in the lounge.

Start charging people to check-in in person. I'd hope in this day and age everyone had the internet.

Some one in Congress has introduce a bill that will prevent spirit airline from charging you for carry on bag. I think this is a good start..

http://dailyradar.com/beltwayblips/stor ... -charging/

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"THE TRUTH IS' EVERYBODY IS GOING TO HURT YOU. YOU JUST GOTTA FIND THE ONE WORTH SUFFERING FOR"
Robert Nesta Marley

I think I'd much rather get "jewed over", whatever that is supposed to mean, then have to deal with all the hypocritical self-righteous christians that we have in this country (who can just as often be pretty cheap themselves). In fact, Isn't Baldanza (the CEO of Spirit) a catholic italian name?