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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:22 pm 
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KenLee wrote:
The point here is being missed by almost everyone. It does not matter what the motivations of either player is but what is the result. ...
Have you even been reading the same thread as everyone else? It is PRECISELY the result that nearly everyone has been talking about, or at least those who are taking the position that this was almost certainly a fruitless and ineffective way to turn a chica away from becoming an HDR prostitute. According to those people the probably result is that this approach almost certainly does NOT work.

As for the less tangible "scientific" results of filling one's brain with endorphins and goody-goody feelings, you might have noted that I already basically said as much when I wrote: " the main thing this giver was probably trying to acheive was to make HIMSELF feel like he was doing a good and magnanimous thing and was making some sort of difference. And, in THAT regard, he probably succeeded. Go ahead, fella, pat yourself on the back.

Does the chica feel a greater sense of well-being, pride and self-worth having received a fatherly lecture on not becoming a slut along with a "pity-payment" (more accurately a "guilt-payment")? Maybe so. I know I wouldn't be entirely displeased receiving a $100 payment just to leave a place I didn't really want to be and a $100 certainly means so much more to a poor chica. That $100 certainly helps put that food on the breakfast table, but then so would have the $100 she might have earned if that some kind-hearted gentlemen had taken her back to his room for an hour and given her a chance to earn it. And her N*no's rumbling stomach certainly doesn't know or care where the money came from to pay for the food in it. Even more important, the act doesn't do any more than help her out for that day or week (assuming she didn't even turn around and return to the HDR later that night or week). She may have had a $100 in her pocket when she returned to her home that night and a LITTLE extra breathing room, but all the factors that "forced" her to turn to the HDR (the source of her angst) were still there the next morning and nothing had really changed.

And as for the waves of kumbaya spreading to all those who witnessed this incident, I should remind you he walked out with her (and everyone else inside the bar) thinking he was taking her back to his hotel. It wasn't until he was out on the sidewalk in front of all the hucksters, pickpockets and drug dealers that he opened his wallet and handed her the cien along with his admonishment, so the only people around to learn anything from it were not exactly the sorts of people who would take away the lesson you were suggesting. But even if he had done what he did inside, look at the reaction to his gesture in this thread. Many more guys would look at what he did as a hopelessly naive and foolish gesture than would actually be inspired to do it themselves.

The point which you have seemed to have missed is not that it was absolutely impossible that this might have some minor positive results. It is that this was an incredibly ineffective way to deal with the problem it purported to solve. If he really wanted to help poor women hoping to avoid a life of prostitution, he should have donated the same money to someplace like Fundacion Rehab, which provided retraining and other assistance for sex-workers seeking a way out rather than as a cash payment who, for all he knows may be short of money because her baby's daddy took her cash to pay his brothel bill. Furthermore, if he really thinks that what these chicas have to do is so horrible, then maybe he shouldn't be paying dozens or even hundreds of other chicas who are probably not that much happier to be there than the chica he paid off. When you're paying hundreds of chicas for sex, paying one not to have sex for money is practically meaningless and more likely amounts to a payment to assuage his guilt or make him feel better about all those chicas he doesn't help that way.

Going about things this way is so incredibly ineffective that, unless one is completely deluding themself, there have to be far better ways to make one feel better about themselves. And that brings me to my final point (in this post at least). If one thinks that by doing an action like this they're really making any sort of real difference, then they're really deluding themselves. In that regard, it is not so different from the guys who delude themselves into thinking these same chicas (who by your account all hate their jobs) aren't all really just about the money when they are with them.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:36 pm 
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Cujo'S wrote:
I think its hilarious for anybody to tell someone how to spend their money. We say don't honor RFM's due in part because we try and help those who we percieve as getting played. And rightfully so, since its usually the case.

But ANYTHING done in person, random acts of kindness etc.. is up to you.

Shit, I'll give a guy a $20 who's a bum and I know he will spend it on booze. I don't giveafuck, he's got a tough enough life regardless of reason why. I'm not here to lecture, "here man, go get some mad dog 20/20"..

If you are susceptiple to being taken advantage of by women, there's nothing I can ever say to change that...
I would work on the perception chicas have of you. These girls have manners, they know who they can pull shit on and who they can't, period.. :|

Cujo
Cujo,
I'm not telling me how to spend their money, but if they tell me they're giving away $100 like this, I AM going to say I think they're decision is foolish. Of course, they're probably going to do whatever THEY think is right regardless of whatever I say.

That said, I'm not sure I understand the distinction that you're trying to make between your stating your opinions on RFM's and someone else stating their opinions on direct hand-outs. In fact, I don't see the difference at all. If some fool wants to send money in response to a RFM, how is that any less up to them?

I also think your comparison between this case and your handing money to a bum is imperfect. You choose to give money to those bums without any preconditions and the understanding that they will most likely choose to spend the money you gave them on somethings that you might not otherwise approve of (but, hey that is their choice). In this case, the donor gave the money to the chica along with the "requirement" that they leave the HDR and NEVER come back. What's more, they did it with the naive hope that the chica would actually be turned away from turning tricks for any more than just a night or two.

Like you said in your last paragraph, if someone is susceptiple to being taken advantage of by women, there's nothing any of the rest of us can ever say to change that... These chicas know who they can pull shit on, but with the not so uncommon incidence of acts like this one, the perception amongst those chicas is that more of us are susceptible to being played.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:53 pm 
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KenLee wrote:
What I seem to see a lot on this board is the belief that all or a majority of these women choose to be in this line of work over a great many options that are available to them.

If you believe this and feel conflicted about it, then why do you come here? If you believe this, then aren't you taking advantage of their situation ?
KenLee wrote:
First, there just aren't that many options.

If you spent much time here you should know that 99% of the Costarricense female population does not work at the Del Rey. They do have other options and most of the women chose those options.
KenLee wrote:
I can not help but believe that given the opportunity to work in an office making a live-able wage that the HDR, SL and every other place in town would be extremely slow by compared today's numbers.


You should rest more easy to know that the HDR etc is slower than it could be. A vast majority of the women choose not to go there.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:01 pm 
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Prolijo wrote:
I also think your comparison between this case and your handing money to a bum is imperfect. You choose to give money to those bums without any preconditions and the understanding that they will most likely choose to spend the money you gave them on somethings that you might not otherwise approve of (but, hey that is their choice). In this case, the donor gave the money to the chica along with the "requirement" that they leave the HDR and NEVER come back. What's more, they did it with the naive hope that the chica would actually be turned away from turning tricks for any more than just a night or two..

I digress as I have not "fully" read this whole thread but rather bits and pieces. Now that you have caught me up, this certainly is an imperfect comparison..


Prolijo wrote:
but with the not so uncommon incidence of acts like this one, the perception amongst those chicas is that more of us are susceptible to being played.


That's why its up to each one of us to handle our own perception. No amount of hand holding will help anyway. Don't count on the act of others to change your own world, do it yourself.. :idea:

Maybe you took my comment as directed towards you, not so. Its really just a general opinion as is this one...

Cujo

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 Post subject: Berk is up to it again
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:27 pm 
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Well Well
Brother Ken has been put on the ropes
Remember who started this thread
I did not read all of Prolijo's essay but most of it I agree with it
You guys are trying to get into a womens head :shock: Not to mention a Tica women :D that may or may not be a pro :?:
Do what you want and makes YOU feel good
If you decide to blabe it to the board ... Hang on :D
Pura Vida Mi Amigos


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:45 pm 
Gringo Malo wrote:
I think it is probably kind of like killing people. The first time is the hardest.



Wow. this is a very creepy analogy. What is happening inside your brain dude?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:56 pm 
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[quote="Icantstayaway"][/quote]
If you believe this and feel conflicted about it, then why do you come here? If you believe this, then aren't you taking advantage of their situation ?
[quote="KenLee"] Believe it...Yes. Conflicted...No. Taking advantage...Yes.

But this changes nothing. If I want to piss away $100, $1,000 or even $10,000. Guess what I can. If I choose to give someone $100, guess what... I can do that too.

The issue is doing or attempting to do something "kind" or "nice" for someone else without ulterior motives. It does not matter if the girl came back the next night. It doesn't matter if she never came back. This person saw or at least thought they saw someone that needed a little kindness. Pure and simple. They did what they felt was the right thing to do and we will never know the impact of that act.

Pro...... Yes I do believe I am reading the same post....... hince the repeated comments. We will never know the particular outcome of this event. We know that the gentleman HOPED for a particular outcome but do we know if he expected a particular outcome? Do I have any notions that this girl up and walked away?..... No. I don't. I suspect she went back there the next night or she left there only to turn up some where else the same night.

Being kind to someone doesn't have to be about money, in this case it was. I don't think it even matters what the guys motivation was. The point of the matter is he took $100 out of his pocket and gave it to someone in the hopes that it would make a difference. That is kindness.

I agree in most cases it probably will not change someone's life but as someone else stated 99.999% is not 100%. Maybe just maybe the next person to be helped, will be.

The difference here is the girl never asked for anything. She came to work. She wasn't trying to hustle anyone such as a RFM. Come on guys surely you see a difference here.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:59 pm 
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I can't actually believe that people take p4p subjects so seriously. :shock:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:00 pm 
Ticas ask me for advice!
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Hank...LOL.... Naaaa I'm not on the ropes Brotha. I'm just glad I am not so cynical that I have lost all hope.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:07 pm 
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hell i'm happy that 1% works at the DR :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:20 pm 
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Mike321 wrote:
hell i'm happy that 1% works at the DR :lol:

Yes, me too. Society imposed "morality rules" keep the number so low. I have talked to girls that have asked me to hook them up with my friends because they did want the easy but didn't want anyone to see them in the HDR .

Some will go to the Key Largo but not the HDR to maintain plausible deniability.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:34 pm 
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I think it looks a little different if we give the original "gifters" the benefit of the fact that they were there, we were not. They didn't give the money to some random chica. They made a determination, based on their observations and experience, and decided to spend their money on something other than poosie. I respect that.

Whether or not it made any difference in the girl's life is a moot point, in my opinion. I have seen men give away hundred dollar bills because it was a girl's birthday last week or because they said something rude a few nights before. I have seen guys drop more than $100 buying drinks for bartenders or cigars they won't even smoke or betting on anything imaginable. Why should I try to analyze the validity of the expenditure? As compared to what?

If it made the guys feel better than an hour in the hot rack or a bottle of Goose in the VIP then I'm all for it! :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:50 pm 
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Cujo,
Of course, I understood your post wasn't directed at me personally and I actually think we're more or less in complete agreement on this subject. The spin I was trying to make on your comment was that, although we can and certainly should concern ourselves MOST about what we can do to influence the chicas perception of us INDIVIDUALLY (particularly as that is really all that we can at all control), we should also be aware that the collective actions of our fellow mongers can have a real impact on the GENERAL perception they have of us. And that can result in our having to work harder to overcome their preconceived notions of us. Some other examples of this include when chicas are reluctant to allow us to take pictures of them or are initially insistent on our paying them upfront because some previous gringo posted their pictures on-line without their consent or stiffed them on their agreed pay. Of course, with careful persuasion we can often (but not always) overcome those perceptions, but they DO effect us.
--------

KenLee,
You said yourself it was not about motivation but results and by far the most probable result is that it will make no real difference in the recipient's life. So what is the point? A ultimately meaningless act of kindness? What other point is there to any act of kindness other than to think it makes a difference for the person receiving it or simply to make the donor feel better about themselves? Beyond that it is nothing more than pissing in the wind. Sure, he probably MEANT well and that part SHOULD be commended. However, his act would have meant much MORE if he directed the same effort in direction that was much more likely to achieve the sort of results that he hoped for.

Did he expect the hoped for outcome? Actually, I'd hope so, or at least saw a higher probability of it than nearly everyone else here, otherwise it would have been even MORE foolish for him to give the money KNOWING it was virtually guaranteed he was throwing it away. You're saying that 99.999% is not 100%, but what the rest of us are saying is that when the odds are THAT slim then it might just as well be. If this guy REALLY wanted to make a difference with an act of "kindness" he could have done MUCH more with the same $100 by giving it to an organization that does REAL action to keep women away from a life or prostitution.
----------

Pac55,
And in all those other examples of monetary frivolousness, we also call those guys on their extravagance. Is it up to each individual on how they spend their money to feel better about themselves? Absolutely! That doesn't mean other people can't shake their heads because they think even those same people could find better more cost-effective ways to acheive the same result.


Last edited by Prolijo on Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:51 pm 
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Quite a few bottle Babi*s posting in this thread.

mh

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:02 pm 
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Prolijo wrote:
Cujo,
Of course, I understood your post wasn't directed at me personally and I actually think we're more or less in complete agreement on this subject. The spin I was trying to make on your comment was that, although we can and certainly should concern ourselves MOST about what we can do to influence the chicas perception of us INDIVIDUALLY (particularly as that is really all that we can at all control), we should also be aware that the collective actions of our fellow mongers can have a real impact on the GENERAL perception they have of us. And that can result in our having to work harder to overcome their preconceived notions of us. Some other examples of this include when chicas are reluctant to allow us to take pictures of them or are initially insistent on our paying them upfront because some previous gringo posted their pictures on-line without their consent or stiffed them on their agreed pay. Of course, with careful persuasion we can often (but not always) overcome those perceptions, but they DO effect us.
--------



If you handle yourself in a way that chicas won't try you, then the ladder takes care of itself. When the dust settles, make sure you take care of you. If we all do that then what becomes the general perception from chicas?

My point is, because we cannot control everything, if you handle yourself the right way, you'll worry less about others damaging your perception.. :idea:

The less you need to do to get desired results, the more you "got it". I'm younger then most of the wiser vets on this board, but this is just how I see it.. :|


Cujo

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