EXECUTIVE SUMMARY:1) This should not be a pro or anti prostitution issue. The more important issue in this campaign should be crime and the economy. BB57 says Ticos see prostitution being a major source of crime in SJ, but are they nuts? 2) I offer several reasons why the real crime problem in CR has little if anything to do with prostitution.
3) I play Devil's Advocate and suggest eliminating or vastly curtailing the high profile gringo-oriented prostitution might not be such a bad thing. 4) Most Colombiana's would go home but poor ticas and nicas will still need to make a living and will somehow offer P4P. 5) The disappearance of CR's image as a sex-tourism destination will lead to fewer amateur mongers coming in and messing up the market. 6) I specifically enumerate the ways a crackdown on gringo-oriented P4P will change the character of the market in possibly positive ways.
7) I flip it around and list ways a crackdown might be very negative and difficult to get around. 8 ) There might be tighter restrictions on chicas at hotels. 9) Sites like CRT could be used against us. 10) Immigration shakedowns targeting monger types could increase. 11) Dual pricing for gringos could increase at Tico MP's.
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BangBang57 wrote:
The real concern for most TICOS should not be whether she is for or against prostitution (or just gringo-oriented prostitution) but why that is even considered an important issue, given all the other much more serious problems that CR has going on. You made a comment in another thread which I found EXTREMELY interesting and I'm really surprised it has not elicited more comment. That was that this is NOT just about the fact that most ticos see this as a serious blight on the image of their country, but rather it is ALSO largely seen as "a major reason for the crime problem in San Jose." Crime SHOULD BE the major issue in this campaign (along with the economy). But do they REALLY think that the crime problem would be seriously impacted if they did away with Gringo Gulch area prostitution? Maybe TICOS erroneously do, but what do the rest of you think?
Personally, the only way I see this affecting the level of crime is that there will be fewer gringos walking around downtown with money for robbers to steal. Of course, that also means that there will be fewer gringos walking around downtown with money to spend. And it will mean all those robbers will have to step up all the robberies that are already happening every day in places like Desamperados, Hatillo, Tibas, etc. where few gringos ever go. Few if any gringos participate directly in the drug trade in SJ which IS a major reason for the crime problem. Some of the prostitutes do, but even they are just a small part of it. And all that will still be there, even if they did away with all the gringo-oriented prostitution venues ("GOP", if I can create an acronym).
Sunny Isles wrote:
Just to play Devils Advocate NO I really don't want an argument, ....
I'd like to play the Devil's Advocate for just a moment too. I don't doubt Chinchilla's intent but I might question whether it would be so bad for even us if she did partially succeed in what she seems intent to do. What I'm talking about here is not a total elimination of prostitution which would probably be impossible anyway but a PARTIAL elimination of prostitution leading to the curtailment of the more blatant "GOP" places and a major change in CR's IMAGE.
Because of CR's increased popularity as a mongering destination, there has been a vast increase in the amount of "GOP" at places like the HDR and more recently the SL. This in turn has drawn in many chicas from other countries as far away as Colombia and the Dominican Republic, which admittedly has been a good thing for us as mongers. If CR shuts down as being a draw for gringo mongers with lots of money, then those Colombianas and others will probably all go home. OTOH, I think there will always be a sizable number of Nicas in CR's P4P trade, just as there are poor Nicas throughout CR's economy. Nicaragua is just so poor and the border so porous that will always be the case.
CR's image as a sex-tourism destination has also drawn in a lot of new inexperienced mongers (some of whom may have been some of us just a couple of years ago). That has changed the pricing and service environment at "GOP" places. Because so many newbies don't bargain down from Cien por Hora or even pay more than that (since some girls are now shooting for more than that) and because they don't understand about working up a girl but just leave the bar quickly for what turns out to be a quick one-shot and back to the bar session, many chicas at these places are more reluctant to keep their prices down and are more anxious to get back to the bar in order to go after that more easy money. Of course, this is not 100% and in most cases it is just a somewhat increased tendency for the chicas, but it has increased to the point that I know of many vets who no longer bother fishing at the HDR or do so much less.
The argument in the above paragraph has been made many times before on this forum and I don't wish to revisit that debate here. The question I'd like to raise is what would it mean if CR's image as a sex-tourism destination ended and these "GOP" places found their business severely curtailed.
1) New guys who haven't been to CR yet would be far less likely to go.
2) Newbies who have been once or twice but don't know much more about the P4P options than the BM and other "GOP" places would be far less likely to come back.
3) Some CR vets would move on to other mongering destinations as many ALREADY HAVE begun to do.
4) Some CR vets would continue to come but would spend most of their time pursuing chicas at the TICO-oriented places, as many ALREADY ARE.
5) Those who aren't true fans of CR to begin with will be the most likely to move on, but there will still be a core group who love CR and will find a way to continue to enjoy it.
6) With a reduced market of rich gringo mongers and reduced ease in finding those gringos at "GOP" places, many chicas will leave the seller market, particularly the highest price Colombianas, but with the reduced number of gringo buyers, particularly the highest spending ones, prices shouldn't change much or may even go down.
7) The Tico-oriented places might be hassled too, PARTICULARLY IF CERTAIN GRINGOS LEAD HIGH PROFILE TOURS to them, but as long as there is TICO demand they'll continue to exist. It should be pointed out that these places didn't just suddenly pop-up because of the business we were bringing them. They've existed all along and we're just discovering them.
8 ) I haven't heard any talk about this in CR, but one thing that happened in Rio, which btw is STILL a major monger destination, was increased restrictions on unregistered overnight guests at hotels. This is something that MIGHT theoretically happen in CR, if they're trying to target "GOP". Rio mongers responded by increasingly staying at apartments or just sessioning on site at the termas. Similar adjustments might have to be done in CR, but the point is they could be done.
9) To avoid hassles by the policia or inflaming any further public indignation, we will probably have to be much more discreet in our PDA's and other actions with chicas when out in public, but that is something that I've been arguing we needed to be doing ALL ALONG, as is evidenced by this political movement that we face now. It may not have changed anything but it couldn't have helped the situation and I wonder whether some of those wringing their hands most at the situation now weren't some of those who insisted most strongly on their rights to behave any way they so chose.
AGAIN, I'M ONLY PLAYING DEVIL'S ADVOCATE HERE. Much of this depends on the manner in which they choose to attack "GOP". Will it be more of the same or increased hassling of businesses catering to "GOP" or will it be more serious and wider challenges that affect all of us more personally?
I already mentioned the possibility of changes to chica policies allowed at hotels. We might find alternatives but what will that mean for primarily monger oriented hotels like the HDR or SL and the meeting spot they provide? Even if they don't change the laws for hotels, will the decreased volume of monger business relative to regular tourists cause these hotels to change their policies in much the same way they have at the Presidente?
What will it mean for sites like this one which are a major source of "GOP" info? They can't shut it down, but any info provided publicly on-line could be used by CR authorities to target any P4P business that becomes popular with us. The Tico MP List will definitely have to go back-channel.
Will most immigration enforcement (such as raids at the HDR) continue to focus on chicas or will they start to be used to hassle gringo mongers? Already we see more shakedowns on the street of single guys in areas where mongers frequent. Will we see more? Do they similarly hassle any other sorts of tourists or tourists in other areas? I haven't really heard about it.
And there is already Gringo pricing at some of these Tico-oriented places. Will that become more common and the price differences increase to offset the hassles that our presence can potentially bring down on them? Will gringo pricing become so bad that it no longer becomes worthwhile for any gringos to bother with it?
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No TICO would vote for her 
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