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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:01 pm 
Masters Degree in Mongering!

Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:06 pm
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It is hard put a project like this together on the ground must less from here. You have done a great job and I commend you. I have donated to this cause, and will donate a lot more once a plan is in place. You would think with as many CRT members we have that we could do a least one good thing for our hosts.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:13 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
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Location: Robinson, TX
FYI:

I had a request for the first return of a donation last night. I put my personal check in the mail this morning to cover the full amount. From what I was told I could have credited him from the PayPal account, but it is my desire to have as much as possible go to the K*ds. I am committed to covering the full $ 3,300.00 from my personal account, if necessary, and continuing with the gift to the Ch*ldren of CR. My good name, and helping the Ch*ldren is worth much more than any monetary amount will ever be.

I know that times are tough, if anyone else wants to have a return on their donation please PM me with the name on the donation, the amount, and your mailing address. I will mail you a check from my personal account within 24 hours of verification of your donation, which will usually be the next day. If there is any doubt in your mind about me, or where the money will be going, please request a return of your donation.

This has become a real test for my psyche. I realize that most of you do not know me. I have never ripped off anyone in my life, and it is not my intent to start now, especially over a measly $3,300, that is going to support some K*ds, and possibly have a life changing effect on a Ch*ld.

Happy holidays to all....

Steve - Santas Bro

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:33 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
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Santa Bro,
I have met you and have no doubt at all about your good intentions or integrity (I'm not so sure however whether my personally vouching for you helps or hurts the cause :roll:). Anyway, you do NOT have to return my donation. I'm sure the money will be safe in its interest bearing account until such time as you find a worthy and reliable way to put it to use. I'd be MUCH more concerned about the integrity of some of the aid-dispensers if we were to hand the money we've collected out too hastily. That said, I would rather you spend your efforts finding a good way to spend the money rather than to spend it worrying about whether we're second-guessing you.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:04 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
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Santas Bro,

I echo what Prolijo said. And there are many CRT members who have met you, and would never question your honesty and integrity. I am certainly one of those. There's not too many people I know that are more honest than you.

If there is any member out there - who has doubts about your character, then hopefully they'll voice their concern in this thread. Then, those of us who know you - can pacify their emotions.

Happy Holidays to all,
MG :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:51 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
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I have no reservations about the character of SB nor of any of the other guys. :D

I do however have concerns about the character and integrity of the people we're trying to help.

I have asked and have been assured of a refund from SB of my paltry $153.00 donation, not because I distrust any CRT player involved; I just think I should wait to get behind a charitable effort where we won't get jerked around.

Let's be clear: Everyone wants to help orphans. But despite its name, literally translated as "Hospice for Orphans of San Jose," this isn't really a huerfanato (orphanage). It's more of a family crisis shelter.

Considering that some of the women clients of the Hospicio are fleeing from abusive males, how did we expect that they would welcome the help of whoremongers? Even the association with Johanna late of SL might mark us as sex tourists. Is this the problem?

Forgive me if my presumptions and questions are ignorant or incorrect. And please do correct me if I am mistaken. :)

I will put my resources and efforts into any charity decided upon by the membership, but for now I have to take a pass.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:08 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
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El Ciego wrote:
...I have asked and have been assured of a refund from SB of my paltry $153.00 donation...

This is truly disappointing... :( For the 1st time in a long time - I'm speechless. :? Image

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:42 pm 
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Mucho Gusto wrote:
El Ciego wrote:
...I have asked and have been assured of a refund from SB of my paltry $153.00 donation...

This is truly disappointing... :( For the 1st time in a long time - I'm speechless. :? Image


And I can understand your disappointment.

My original intention was to "repay" all the wonderful charity I myself received from CRT members in 2006, penny for penny. I do this not out of any misplaced sense of obligation or because I don't appreciate the gifts and donations I myself received. Quite the opposite;
now that I am on somewhat better financial footing, I want to pass the charity along to others.

The money is not the issue at all. This is more about lack of communication between the "orphanage" and those of us who donated, mixed signals from the Hospicio's administrator, the "bait and switch" nature of their interactions with us.

Rest assured, the money will be there when/if we can find a worthy and worthwhile charity.

As I said above, and I mean it sincerely: I am ready and willing to help. Let's just make sure that our efforts are not misplaced.
Only a fool gives his help to those who don't want it, and from all indications, the Hospicio does not really want our help. :(

:cry: :(

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:49 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
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Santa's Bro: I am here in Costa Rica and will soon have a vehicle. How can I help?

I know there has got to be a way/place that really needs our help and support. How about if I do a little research and let you know what I find...

By the way, I in no way question your integrity. Together, we can get this done. Hang in there.

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but your love don't pay my bills,
I NEED THE MONEY!" - John Lee Hooker

Disclaimer: The above is merely the opinion of the author unless specific scientific data is included.
Your mileage may vary. https://costaricaticas.com/phpBB2/viewto ... 978#206978

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:02 pm 
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In Costa Rica, it's very hard to get anything accomplished if you live there, much less if you are only there 3-4 times per year. Steve is doing his best, but the lack of communication (they don't speak English) and fact he's only there for a few days every few months makes it hard to get anything accomplished.

I don't know if this was a typo but Steve wrote that they are looking for $45,000 to renovate some old building. It seems they have loftier goals for what can be done, that amount is a bit out of our range. With almost $3,000 in the fund, we should be able to get the building painted or get some new desks/tables/chairs, if we can get local prices.

It would be good to have somebody local (like Pacifica55) who could oversee the work while Steve is away.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:08 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
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Pacifica55 wrote:
Santa's Bro: I am here in Costa Rica and will soon have a vehicle. How can I help?

I know there has got to be a way/place that really needs our help and support. How about if I do a little research and let you know what I find...

By the way, I in no way question your integrity. Together, we can get this done. Hang in there.

Pac55,
I'm sure I speak for many others when I say "Thank You". Anything you can do is definitely needed and would be greatly appreciated. You're a good guy for stepping up here. Good karma amigo!

And I don't care what they say. In this situation .... IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY !!! :o :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:12 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
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Orange wrote:
In Costa Rica, it's very hard to get anything accomplished if you live there, much less if you are only there 3-4 times per year. Steve is doing his best, but the lack of communication (they don't speak English) and fact he's only there for a few days every few months makes it hard to get anything accomplished.

I don't know if this was a typo but Steve wrote that they are looking for $45,000 to renovate some old building. It seems they have loftier goals for what can be done, that amount is a bit out of our range. With almost $3,000 in the fund, we should be able to get the building painted or get some new desks/tables/chairs, if we can get local prices.

It would be good to have somebody local (like Pacifica55) who could oversee the work while Steve is away.


I see the above as a problem. No Orange, the $45K is not a typo.

When offered money to make basic, necessary repairs and to help the orphans, the orphanage folks (I am told) turned down the gift and requested $45K to renovate a school building they own, which they would then rent to a nearby hospital, thus garnering a monthly income for the Hospicio (and I would bet, its administrator). To me this is unreasonable and is in effect, biting the hand that's feeding you.

I'm sorry, but if the stories I've been told are true, the Hospicio is treating us like hated gringo idiots, not like decent guys who are just trying to help. It angered me, and yes I did request my donation to be returned. Sorry if that rubs folks here the wrong way. I've already fielded three "hate PMs" since posting earlier this afternoon. Sorry to anyone who can't understand my POV on this.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:09 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
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I received another request for the donation to be returned, which I will mail tomorrow, pending the name clarification, mailing address, and amount on PayPal from the CRT brother. It is not wrong for any man to request that his donation be returned. Again, I will return the money personally. It would have been my choice not to have named those asking for a return of their donations. It does not make them wrong, nor bad. I'm sorry that ElCiego has named himself, I would not have, just as I will not name anyone asking for their donation to be returned. ElCiego's check was put in today's mail. I have asked him to PM me when he receives it.

As far as I know, the Hospicio never turned down any help from CRT. They did however want us to raise the $45,000 (that was not a typo) for the TI on their old school building. My belief is that my limited Spanish skills and their limited English skills lost much in translation. At the same time, there was some problems with Johanna with one of our members, and myself, that limited our support through her. I don't think that Hospicio even knew where we were from. Most certainly CRT was never brought up in any meeting I have ever had with them. Johanna does work with them through others, so I doubt they would connect her with mongering. I have tentatively set up a meeting with her in January, although I think now my first choice would be helping Hogar de Vista del Mar should that be possible.

We did meet a lady who is possibly the Administrator at Hogar de Vista del Mar, in Vista del Mar, at Hospico while we were there. It is an actual orphanage. This is more of interest to me, especially if it is the same woman. She owns a car rental agency, buys houses, puts a nun in them, and gives several Ch*ldren a better life. DiegoC is trying to find out much of what there needs are at this time. with it being the holiday season, it is taking some more time.

Pacifica55, thank you very much for your most generous offer. I'm not sure if you know DiegoC or not, but he unfortunately will be out of town for much of the time I will be there in January. Maybe if you two can meet and find out where the Hogar de Vista del Mar is located that would be a help. He has been in contact with them, and hopefully will give us some insight into what their needs are. Any research that you can do, and find a deserving Ch*ldren's organization would be appreciated.

For those of you who truly wish to donate, and do not care for using this avenue, there should be nothing that keeps you from doing something on your own.

I am so very sad that this has taken the turn that it has. Please, please do not get into flaming wars over this. I ask that you offer constructive criticism to me about what can be accomplished, and how I can better serve the K*ds of CR with the generous donations aquired.

No one is a bad guy in this scenario.

Happy holidays....

Steve - Santas Bro

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:22 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
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Philanthropy today is much different than it was years ago when people just sent money to a pot and hoped good would come of it. All contributors, including small givers, such as the CRT fund, want to know some basics about the organization to which they entrust their hard earned funds.

“Trust, but verify.”

That is particularly true in a nation renowned for lining the pockets of managers and executives at the expense of those for whom the funds were intended. Let’s face it, three of the last four presidents have been charged with corruption involving illegal payments. While none have been convicted, it should be noted that one of the former presidents won’t even return to Costa Rica. Additionally, ugly rumors swirl around the current administration.

There are a few things that should be decided on before anything else goes forward.

Peter Drucker, who was one of the best known of all business consultants and is considered the father of modern management, was also keenly interested in meaningful philanthropy (emphasis on meaningful). Peter wrote five questions that should be asked of every potential charity recipient.

1. What is the Mission?

Does the organization have a clearly defined purpose for being?

2. Who is the Customer?

Whom do they serve? This includes both direct and indirect customers.

3. What does the Customer Value?

What do they need, what do they want, what is important to them? In giving, there has to be a union of what you (the giver) wants and what the recipient wants. That includes the strings that you attach to the gift. For example, my father gave a sizable endowment for scholarships, included in that endowment was a clause which required a member of his family to be present during the formal ceremonies where the scholarships were presented.

That which El Ciego wrote above is painfully true: “Only a fool gives his help to those who don't want it . . .”

4. What kinds of Results have they had?

Is this some kind of knee jerk group that wonders aimlessly doing all good to all people and in the end, doing nothing? Or have they examples of both successes and mistakes; have they established a learning loop where they are growing from their mistakes? What have they done? What do they have to show for?

5. What is their Plan?

If they don’t know what they need and want, then walk away because they have failed to do the most basic task of organizational development: they have failed to define their mission, in other words their purpose for being. That is important because everything else flows from the mission. When they do not have a mission, they don’t know who they are, where they are going and what they really need.

Down here, I would add number 6:

6. Is the “charity” recipient a legit organization?

Included with that is the fact that I would never give a cash grant. Down here giving cash is an open invitation to fraud and pocket lining. As Santa’s Bro suggested, if they need a stove, buy them a stove and make sure you watch it get installed.

If you expect to become a permanent contributor to the charity, then insist on regular inspections. Not formal like a DI in the barracks, but show us what you need now and by the way how is that stove we bought you last year?

It should be clear what you expect and it should be written down as a memorandum of understanding. Not for the recipient alone, but for other mongers who may want to give, they need to know this shit is real and their dollars are actually helping. Photos help document.

I have served on several non-profit boards of directors and have no fear of challenging staff. I told one board who was going to foolishly waste money that I would not only resign from the board but would write a newspaper article about their foolish spending and then seek out every donor I knew and convince them to stop giving. They weren’t going to do anything illegal but they were sure going to spend the money irrationally and unwisely. They were just being stupid and selfish. Had they gone forward, they would have breached their fiduciary responsibility as board members.

When you know where you money is going and you get regular updates then it is usually okay. But just like everyone else, no one wants to fork over hard earned cash to line the pockets of some sleaze ball disguised as manager of a charity.

Santa’s Bro is an honorable man and is working hard to do something good for some needy K*ds. That should never be doubted.

Maybe we could get together and craft some ideas so those of you who do want to give can feel assured that your money is going to actually help K*ds. I will volunteer my time and efforts but only as an assistant to those who have gone before me.

My passion would be helping the orphans of police officers killed in the line of duty. These cops don’t make squat and when they get killed in the line of duty, they are just dead. There is no help, no widows and orphans fund. We complain about the police down here but they have nothing to protect them like the PBA in New York or the memorials in most states across the nation, which focus on helping the K*ds of slain police officers.

Just some thoughts.

Merry Christmas everyone! :D


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 4:42 am 
Ticas ask me for advice!
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Phuck it I'm still in and will send another pay pal donation this weekend, My vote you guy's now have people on the ground to do serious legwork (thanks Pac) I would be happy with whatever the majority says but if this place doesn't work out I'm sure in a country as poor as CR there is the one that would be thrilled. If it takes longer so what the kitty just gets bigger and we can do more and better things.
Merry Christmas Bro's


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:40 am 
PHD From Del Rey University!
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I understand El C's thinking. His refund request was not a reflection of any distrust of Steve as much as his distrust of the Tico's behind our original choice of charities and a desire not to leave his donation just sitting around while things got sorted out. However, I take a different view on things, one more like Smelvis:

a) if the original orphanage is dicking us around, lets not waste any more time on them. There should be plenty of other parties that would appreciate a pot of money like ours and be willing to provide the assurances we need to see the money is well spent.

b) the larger our pot of money is in the meantime, the more those charities will sit up and take notice and be willing to make those compromises (meaning now is NOT the time to take back donations).

I understand the inherent corruptness endemic in many tico institutions, but there have to be some altruistic individuals involved in charitable work in CR who really do it for the good of the parties they purport to help rather than any personal enrichment. And to the extent there aren't or that those types of people are difficult to distinquish from the ones who aren't, there are other things that can be done on our side to insure the money is well spent. Some examples have already been mentioned, such as making the expenditures for items ourselves and giving items rather than cash, and then following up (and letting them know we will be following up) to see those items in use.

Toward that end, perhaps as a seperate charitable effort, I'd like to propose a "Toys for Tots" program. Someone recently suggested a donation box at the SL. It is definitely much too late this year for such an effort. At least so much as the idea would be to distribute for Christmas, but the idea, though belated, is something we should not overlook again next year. The Admin just proposed a holiday party for next year around the Feista de Luz (mid December) and I think that would be the ideal time to distribute Toys brought by guys down for the event as well as those dropped off by others during the preceeding months. There are lots of brothers who come down for Thanksgiving and even Halloween which would be a good time to kick-off the drive. (I'm sure the SL doesn't want a big empty box taking up space in their lobby for the entire year). Of course, some mechanism would have to be in place to see that chicas didn't dip into the box early, but I think something could be done about that. Then we'd need to discuss whether this is something that should be done for Ch*ldren of the chicas (with all due credit to CRT as a whole to help counter the unfavorable image we have amongst many chicas) or directly to the Ch*ldren from the original orphanage we were working with down the street. Also, should some CRT representatives take the toys to the orphanage to hand them out to the K*ds (to make sure the orphanage administrators don't take them home for their own K*ds or resale :roll:) or perhaps organize and host an afternoon Ch*ldren's party at the SL where chicas can bring in their K*ds for games, prizes and presents. Maybe that would be a horrible idea with all the public concern that we're not only disgusting sex tourists but also pedophiles. but there would be plenty of responsible people around to make sure everything was G-rated for the couple of hours the K*ds were around. I don't know but I'm throwing it out for discussion.


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