www.CostaRicaTicas.com

For the last 5 years that I have been living here as an ex-pat ,many of my friends have been extoling the advantages of obtaining residency. I have declined because it is generally a pain in the ass.The ONLY advantage for me since I don't work here,is that I don't have to leave the Country for a minimum of 3 days every 90 days. Well I enjoy visiting my family in the States so it's not a problem.

Now comes the newest change........ read todays page1 at www.amcostarica.com and tell me what you think about our beloved President Arais' latest proposal which appears well on it's way to punishing those who have gone the residency route and ignored the "Perpetual tourists"

As an unaffected non-resident, I'm not sure I have the qualifications to comment on this issue like you ex-pats do. But I've never let something like that stop me before so why should I start now. I do have a few OPINIONS:

1) You mentioned having to leave the country for 3 days every 90 as the trade-off for being a "perpetual tourist" but you forgot a couple of other very important ones: a) not having as much legal status for being able to complain about their immigration laws since you're really already violating or at least severely bending one and b) being subject at any time to their deciding to enforce their laws and limit the number of times you can renew your tourist visa.

2) After they came out with an endorsement of John McCain I swore I'd never read AMCostaRica again but already broke my vow to read that article. They seem to like to play it both ways a CR news outlet making endorsements on the internal politics of the US and at the same time as resident aliens commenting on the immigration policies of CR which really should be entirely up to the CR people. I guess I'm not the only one who is guilty of sticking his opinion into the business of others.

3) I think $600/month was perhaps too low, since I think very few gringo pensionados could really live on that little in CR. OTOH, $2000/month is too high since few tico's make that much and even a gringo doesn't NEED that much to survive in CR without becoming a drain on their society. And the $1000/month requirement for rentistas was reasonable enough but $5000/month is totally outrageous. Not only do few ticos make that much, but most gringos in THE U.S. don't make that much either and you DEFINITELY don't need that much to live in CR

4) Some of you might recall that there was a similar big to-do something like 15yrs(?) ago when CR eliminated the $10K waiver on imported personal luxury goods subject to the import taxes for expats. I forget all the details of that and whether existing expats were grandfathered in but perhaps some of the oldtimers around here could remind us. Anyway, my point is that each country has always been free to set its own immigration policies. CR's have already been much more stringent than its neighbors and yet in spite of that has continued to get many more immigrants than those neighbors. They made a calculated decision that the advantages of living in CR outweighed the negatives and that they could get away with making it harder to move there. The history during the past decade has proven them right. It remains to be seen whether they've just gone too far this time, but I strongly suspect they have.

5) There are already a lot of gringo perpetual tourists in CR. I agree that this will only shift even more into that category. The problem is that CR has to realize this and that any effectiveness of any changes to their other immigration catgories will be greatly limited unless they also crack down on that unofficial category. And even though no rules about perpetual tourists are included in the draft legislation, the article states that "another aspect of the draft law is to strengthen the immigration police, and this could mean a crackdown on those tourists working for pay or running businesses this could mean a crackdown on those tourists working for pay or running businesses." Does that mean that if you're a perpetual tourist who doesn't work or run a business (like VB), then you don't have to worry. I wouldn't bet on it if it were me and this legislative direction would be making me a bit nervous about my ability to continue the game I've been playing.

6) The part about the 25% tax on homes/condos valued at more than $150K don't exactly make me upset even though the article SAYS that most homes owned by gringos in CR are worth more than that. First, I don't think that is true. Many rent and many own places worth far less than that. Secondly, my house in Florida is not worth that much more than that and it is valued above the median value of homes in my area. $150K in CR is REALLY a luxury home and I'm not about start making any collections to help those "poor" homeowners out. Just as declining home prices were a risk that many homebuyers ignored in the US with their 110% ARM mortgages, buying a luxury home in a poor country should also have been understood as a calculated risk they shouldn't have taken if they couldn't afford it.

OTOH, even though conspicuously rich gringo landowners don't get my sympathy, I do agree that CR might be killing the golden goose. Higher end land prices have already been battered by such factors as overdevelopment and speculation, rising local crime and environmental problems and, not the least, the declining world economy. Suddenly leveeing a ridiculously high property tax on them could be the final nail in the coffin that will lead to a total collapse of THAT SEGMENT of the housing market. Whatever you might feel about such gringos and their effect on the egalitarian social fabric of CR, they do bring lots of money into the country.

7) "The Arias bill is being touted as another weapon against crime". I'm sorry but I don't get that one at all, unless they mean that if there are fewer rich gringos in CR there will be fewer potential VICTIMS of crime. People that can afford $150K houses do not need to commit crimes and they are the ones who will most likely LEAVE the country because of this law. Even resident aliens who have just $600-$1000 monthly declared incomes are not likely the ones committing the crimes. That problem comes from either poor native born citizens or illegal immigrants from neighboring poor countries who do not have even $600 per month in declared income.

As is usually the case, once Prolijo has done an analysis, there isn't much to add. But my own reaction, as a rentista, is that if they implement this law as it stands, there will certainly be one person changing his address. I am very close to getting social security, but no way do I have 2000 a month coming from that. I might be able meet the 5000 a month rentista bit but it would tie up most of what I have in an investment I do not really trust. Assuming it would be the same 5 years deposit, that would be a 300k deposit. So, K*ds... IF this thing actually passes, idiotic as it is, There will be a few vacancies in my apt. building. I'm thinking Colombia, Peru or maybe Panama. Any other suggestions in Latin America? (no steambath climates please)

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"The only normal people are those you don't know very well." Joe Ancis

What about Nicaragua? Personally I am going to look into Honduras, since I spent a few years there more than a decade ago. Honduras would have too many drawbacks for most people. But Nicaragua seems like it could compete with Panama and maybe even Columbia. What do you think of Nicaragua?

There are parts of Nicaragua that aren't sweltering hot. I believe Esteli and Matagalpa have livable climates. I am a little concerned about the infrastructure, though. Up in the hills of Nicaragua I suspect broadband internet could be a problem, but perhaps I'm wrong. Mongering would be out of the question, from what I've heard. The same is true of Chiriqui in Panama, though I think they do have broadband. I'm going to do a little research, see what residency requirements and immigration policy are in some other places. I'll get back to y'all.

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"The only normal people are those you don't know very well." Joe Ancis

Like the Central Valley of Costa Rica, the Esteli/Matagalpa region of Nicaragua being higher up in the mountains does have a pleasant climate (and is also a very attractive part of Nicaragua), but it is not super close to Managua or the central part of the country where the better infrastructure exists and you don't see hardly any gringos in that area. The parts of the country that are more popular with gringos are either on the Pacific coast or the western lake shore (Grenada) and can be very sweltering. As bad as crime is in CR, I believe it is still much worse in Nicaragua. And as screwy as the real estate market is in CR, it is even crazier in Nicaragua. Land prices are much cheaper but land TITLES are incredibly mixed up due to years of various land reforms/redistributions. You have to be REALLY REALLY careful or you might find the land you just bought is claimed by someone else. In fact, that might happen even if you're very careful.

Panama has much more going for it in terms of security, healthcare and other infrastructure AND the policies of the government vis a vis would be gringo immigrants. Unfortunately, being mostly lower elevation than the central valley (I hear even Boquette is pretty hot), it doesn't have the moderate climate of the central CR. OTOH, if you were considering coastal property in CR anyway, then these other places might make more sense (due to much more affordable pricing if for nothing else).

ColOmbia? I heard they don't allow you to move there until you learn how to spell it (:P sorry chesscat, could't resist). Seriously, though, where do you think a lot of the worst criminals in CR come from? Mexico is another popular destination for gringo retirees but it too has some serious crime/security issues going against it. Honduras and El Salvador also have bad reps for crime and violence, but personally I've never felt so paranoid about my security as I did while I was in Managua.

Frankly, I think your best latin american candidates might be further south such as in Ecuador, Peru, Chile or Argentina.

Every place will have its pros and cons. I wouldn't say that CR should be completely ruled out at this point based on where its at now, but I don't like where its heading and lets face it for most of us this move won't be happening for at least the next year or two and probably much longer than that and the time you'll be living there will probably be even longer still(particularly if you buy property).

Prolijo said


OK...some of these statements have lulled me into the conversation. I don’t know why Prolijo takes exception to "rich land owners" since that is what has driven the growth and marketability of Costa Rica this past decade. Without new revenue and an active investment market, nothing is going to grow or go anywhere in Costa Rica. It amazes me that even now with all the unprecedented "emerging" Costa Rica has experienced these past years, they now take these ridiculous steps to kill the fattened goose...foreign immigrant investors. The Ticos had nothing but Coffee and banana plantations before the immigrant tourists arrived. Now with their new immigration laws and huge increase of taxes on the "rich land owners", they are basically preying on the foreign rich in my opinion to support their largely socialistic system and government. The pendulum swings are always unrealistic in that and other Latin countries down here. There is no rhyme or reason to really understand their policies...and the minute they realize the pain their policies will cause, they reverse totally to the other side again. If you live in that system, it is enough to make one dizzy watching the ping pong ball of bad ideas batted about government.

I think VegasBobs approach has been vindicated this past 5 years. To be a legal resident in CR, and even Panama, is a continual pain the ass. The rules change every few months and people making the rules have no class or education. It usually just feeds the frenzy of immigration fraud and black marketeering which is a huge part of these economies. I had hoped to find this aspect better in Panama, but to be honest, it is another version of the same bullshit. There is nothing illegal or illegitimate about being the "perpetual tourist"...and I would argue the cost of leaving every 90 days is cheaper than posting big bonds to back up a superfluous residency. And if someone like Bob wants to relocate to another country here, he doesnt have to worry about selling off or recuping his investment deposit with the government of the day. If one wants to abide by all the crazy rules down here as a gringo...God bless ya. But once you become more "Latino" you realize all rules are made to be bent or broken. It's WHO you know, not WHAT you know down here.

As for Panama...there are many cooler places similar to San Jose CR. Boquete is probably about the same climate wise though probably a little drier during rainy season. It IS quite remote though, so you really need to appreciate a small and growing gringo community if you want to live there. The city or within an hour of the city is where you still want to be in Panama as far as infrastructure and things/women to do. Just be advised that immigration laws are changing here as well...with just about the same lack of rationale as CR. I think they are all trying to give away the tourism and biz development to Colombia. We are seeing significant increase of interest in Colombia's fast emerging economy and tourism. You are even seeing large ads on TV now promoting Colombian tourism. Many Colombians in the USA are looking to return and prosper in Colombia in recent weeks based on the continued financial debacle and unfriendly immigration environment there. So...keep all that in mind.

Viva la "perpetual tourist"!

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All that a man achieves and all that he fails to achieve is the direct result of his own thoughts...

Can't leave this one alone especially as I have rough plans to retire here in 2 or so years...
>>>First off, a close reading of that article shows a decimal point in front of the 25--it's .25% (1/4 of 1%) tax rate which is what it is now. What may change is the self-evaluating, self-reporting aspect of it. This has lent itself to rampant fraud and not just or even primarily by ex-pats. They may in the future have Government appraisers assign a valuation to land and homesteads and assess taxes based on that.
>>>Second, this is only draft legislation subject to change in the political process. One can hope that the harsher anti-immigrant aspects will be softened.
>>>Third, about "...no input from ex-pat organizations...". Officially, no, but all legislators aren't rabidly xenophobic or hopelessly stupid. Besides, how much input do you think the U. S. Congress would stand for from those people or organizations not politically-connected. Do you think CR is different?
>>>Fourthly, frustration tinged with rage has been expressed here but are you a member of/have you expressed your concerns to any of the ex-pat info and advocacy organizations here (ARCR comes to mind)? I am and I have.
>>> Lastly, What better place is there in Latin America, overall? That as was pointed out, might not change overnight? Even Argentina is currently in the tightening grip of the Peronistas and Pres. Kirchener grows ever closer to Venezuela (we know about that $800K bag of cash that was stopped--how much else got through?).
No, for me the choice is CR or the Ozarks with frequent trips to Latin America---although Malta looks good too.

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"A man accustomed to hear only the echo of his own sentiments, soon bars all the common avenues of delight, and has no part in the general gratification of mankind"--Dr. Johnson
"Amen, brother"-ED

ARCR has posted on a Yahoo group that they will lobby against aspects of the proposed changes to the immigration law that negatively effect their members. ARCR has, in the past, been able to effectively lobby against changes in the immigration law. It is in their self interest to have gringos migrate to Costa Rica and become dues paying members so they work very diligently to keep the law reasonable.

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Pura Vida
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Alex Levine

Any consideration of the Arias Bill as a weapon against crime is a non sequitur. Perhaps the legislature sees logic in its actions and, if there is logic, it is well hidden. In a nation with rampant violent crime which does not appear to have any serious, organized opposition, the legislature and the executives are tuning up their fiddles just in case San Jose burns.

Maybe they have seen too many of their own promotional videos to realize that there are other options for Americans and Canadians.

Aesop was so wise when he wrote of the goose and golden egg.

I've been here for 9 years. Please, anybody, give me one example of logic in CR in the last decade.

Third It used to be that citizens paid a higher airport exit tax than did tourists. That was illogical. The law was changed and now the tax is the same ($26) for both citizens and tourist.

That is one. Do I hear two?

It will take deep and concentrated thought to think of another. Not sure there is another, but maybe.

Not treating prostitution by adults as a crime, in fact not codifying it all, is CR logic at its finest. Makes more sense than making it explicitly legal. Or have I got that wrong?
But seriously deaccessioning a lesser country in favor of a stronger, rising country also makes perfect sense. Taiwan vs. China. "What have you done for me lately? What are your prospects in the future for helping me?" is pure realpolitik logic at its finest. India, Egypt, Indonesia played that game successfully for decades.

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"A man accustomed to hear only the echo of his own sentiments, soon bars all the common avenues of delight, and has no part in the general gratification of mankind"--Dr. Johnson
"Amen, brother"-ED

Unphuckingbelieveable.......another nation is going to tax its' people into prosperity. Looks like they want to get your stuff before the home invasion robbers or at least get what was safely(?) in the bank. Good to see your voice VB....I worry when I don't read you for awhile.

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My life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming...." MAN....WHAT A RIDE!!!!"

I have been here for 3 years as a tourist, and have no plans to leave... However one of the reasons I never bothered applying for residency is that Costa Rica has been going downhill over the last couple of years in terms of crime, cost of living, and general friendliness towards foreigners. If it continues at the same rate I'll probably be trying a new country in the next year or so.

The only advantage I can see from residency is the ability to acquire a concealed carry permit... As far as everything else goes you're better off as a tourist IMO. As for leaving every 90 days, I end up leaving more often than that anyway.

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