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This topic was covered very well Junkyard Dog and others on 19 June '05 (I couldn't bring it forward as it's locked and wouldn't as there were comments by an anathema to the board-let lying dogs sleep) but it has resonance due to the current situation in the Dominican Republic. Great violence visited upon Haitian immigrants, some of whom have been in the DR long enough to be "Hispanicized". I'm reminded of the picture and article in AMCostaRica last year(?) of some San Jose street punks spray-painting anti-Black epithets on a wall. Seems to be a sad but universal human failing. Even my own Celtic people are prone to this (fair-skinned lighter-haired vs. the "black"Irish) and though I'm nowise competent or comfortable discussing it, I understand such lighter vs. darker complected prejudice exists in the African-American populace as well. We have some deep-seated need to demonize others and such as skin is the obvious lamentable way to do it.

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"A man accustomed to hear only the echo of his own sentiments, soon bars all the common avenues of delight, and has no part in the general gratification of mankind"--Dr. Johnson
"Amen, brother"-ED

if you want to witness similar prejudice first hand just watch the people who enter the DR...the only ones patted down or checked with a wand are Latin American looking men or Black men

gringos walk right in..

Patting down Latin American men is certainly logical.The key to public safety and security is to try to think about what does not fit.DR is a primarily an establishment catering to Western tourists.I doubt many ticos make it thier favorite watering hole.So the odds that these guys are there for purposes that are a threat to the guests are very high.I have never seen an English speaking African-American patted down. Seen several Dominican guys patted down.I have only seen gringos patted down at Molino Rojo. Seems fair to me.

Each trip I get patted down the first few days(a slight Dominican look)after that im cool

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But mama, that's where the fun is

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Same here. Never been patted down in the DR or KL, and I am obviously black, but way to big to be confused with a tico from Limon.

My wife and I stayed in the HDR together in the summer of 07. I thought her blond hair and blue eyes would be enough to keep the security bulldogs off our tails.....but the first few times we walked onto the elevator, the guards were there to greet us. and I would annoyingly growl, "Mi espousa." After they saw her ID, they were cool, and then learned who were were and stopped the hassle.

I'm not one to welcome this type of intrusion from big brother...but if the security is associated with a private enterprise, I don't mind a little inconvenience to secure my safety.

The assumption of the gringo as less of or not at all a security risk happens everywhere in CR. Another example besides those already given is the El Pueblo complex of which has had numerous problems with shootings and stabbings. I go there often and there is at night always a long line waiting to be friscked or wanned by the electronic thing but they just point at me from back in the line and let me in. Every time this happens I think of all the lawsuits that would be filed if this was the usa.
Predjudice against blacks in latin countries seems to be widespread and open or at least much less hidden than us gringos are accustomed to. Remember the statement by Vincente Fox when he was president of Mexico saying something like this, and I forget his exact words, "the mexicans in the US do jobs that even the blacks wont do". There was a big fuss in the USA with Sharpton but I am not aware of a fuss or never heard of a fuss in Mexico. I have several tico amigos who are certain and not ashamed to vent their opinions that blacks are inferior to them and wish the 1948 law was never repealed which for the first time let blacks in SJ.
I try not to judge them too harshly as this is a sensitive subject and at least in my opinion there is not one among us or anybody anywhere without racial opinions of some sort or another. Mi dos centavos! JD

Livinincr just gave a very bad example (not really an example at all). I wouldn't characterize the HDR/BM pat-downs as an example of prejudice so much as basic racial profiling. And while you could say that there is an element of prejudice in racial profiling, you could just as easily say that there is also a rational basis in it as well. I seriously doubt that it reflects a belief on the part of the HDR security crew or its management that ALL hispanics or non-western blacks are somehow bad or not to be trusted or even most of them. It does reflect an acknowledgement of the reality that:
a) wealthy gringos are first and foremost where they make their money whereas chicas are just a tool toward that end and any local (and usually relatively poor) tico more often than not has no good reason to be in sych an expensive gringo-oruented bar
b) wealthy gringos down in CR on vacation (and having gone through airport security) are much less likely to be carrying any serious weapons
c) over time locals are much more likely to have been able to have acquired weapons somewhere and
d) on the streets outside the HDR there have been very very few cases of gringo on gringo or gringo on tico violence involving weapons (if any at all), but latino on gringo or latino on latino armed attacks are a daily occurence.

A much better example of hispanic on hispanic prejudice would be tico attitudes towards nicas and colombianos. The case of nicas in particular is analogous to the original example that Jazz cited regarding the french creole speaking Haitians in the Dominican Republic. In both cases, the prejudice is not so much racial or ethnically based as it is economic. In both cases you have economic (and usually illegal) migrants from a much poorer neighboring country coming in "stealing" jobs from locals through their willingness to work for much less money or overwhelming the already precarious social safety net or in the worst cases the criminal justice system. BTW, does that sound familiar to anything here in the US? Colombianos are a similar example except that they come from 2 countries away. Also with Colombianos there is a much closer association with narco-related violence and crime.

Beyond such examples as haitians in DR or nicas and colombianos in CR there are much better examples of hispanic on hispanic culturally or ethnically based prejudice.

CR is probably the one latin country where you would find the least of that. What makes CR somewhat unique is that from its very beginning there was very little indigenous culture. What this means is less indian blood got mixed up in the tico genetic make-up and that early spanish colonists had to work their farms largely by their own sweat. If course that eventually changed but large-scale importation of immigrant labor didn't really occur until as recently as the late 19th century (mostly chinese and jamaican immigrants for work on the railroads and banana plantations). As a result CR culture is much less diverse and much more socio-economically egalitarian than most other products of the former spanish empire. That is not to say ticos are completely free of racial prejudice. Being "whiter" or more purely hispanic than many hispanics of neighboring countries and coming from a much more peaceful and economically successful country, they can often look down their noses at other hispanics.

However, hispanic on hispanic prejudice is pretty rampant in many other places in latin america (and even in the US). A big part of it is racial in origin. I already alluded to the issue of indian or mestizo blood. To that mix I'd also add the issue or of african blood (aka black). This latter aspect is not so much even just a hispanic issue. We're all probably familiar with Michael Jackson's alleged skin-bleaching. In N'awlins black society there has always been something known as the paperbag test - if your skin was lighter in shade than a brown paper bag you had enough white blood to be considered to be part of the upper tier black society. I've seen much the same thing in my time in Haiti where the mullatos rule economically and culturally over their darker fellow countrymen. And the same thing occurs regularly in many more purely hispanic countries. In Colombia for example, "whiter" Bogotans from their capital in the highlands "look down" on the Cartegenans on the coast, who also happen to tend to be much darker (less Castillian).

Aside from these prejudices WITHIN a particular country, there are definite hispanic differences BETWEEN countries. Some of this may be related to the relative presence of former slave blood or mestizo (native indian) blood in the overall population but part of it is probably cultural as well. I already mentioned the natural suspicion that colombianos receive whereever they go in latin america as a result of all the narco-crime and violence in their country which they often (or at least sometimes) bring with them. But there is also no love lost between colombianos and venezuelans (with both sides looking down on the other) and much of that predates any drug-related violence probably dating back to several wars between the 2 countries. Both of those countries also look down more on hispanics from places like Ecuador and Peru which are much more heavily mestizo.

Cubans are another group that seem to be at the top of the hispanic pecking order. For example, I know that in Miami (where I lived for many years), Cubans look down on Puerto Ricans (and Nicaraguans and El Salvadoreans and whatever large hispanic group you can think of that lives there). In fact, Cubans from the "first wave", the mostly upper and middle-class who came over in the early 60's right after the revolution, consider themselves to be superior to the poorer and more "backward" Marielitos who came over in the early 80's (also often more criminal since it included those released from cuban jails).

There is also a cultural divide between "New Yoricans" (Puerto Ricans who either emmigrated to or were actually born in New York) and "real" Boricuans who still live and remain on their native island.

And then there are differences based on language of all things. There are many regional differences in how spanish is spoken in all these countries. And all of them are much different from the way castillian spanish is spoken in their native spain (though some remain a little closer to that than others). Some countries, such as Mexico for example, have so much native colloquialisms that at times it seems like a different language altogether.

In closing, IMHO this is not a hispanic phenomenon. There is a natural human tendency to align ourselves in groups (or tribes). Witness the phenomenon of sports fandom. Even if we didn't have racial, language or other cultural differences we would still find some other basis for dividing ourselves up.

What he said. No, seriously, I brought this topic back specifically to get Sr. Prolijo's analysis for my benefit and those of the other newer members. Another good job and another (free) benefit of this Forum, this organization.

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"A man accustomed to hear only the echo of his own sentiments, soon bars all the common avenues of delight, and has no part in the general gratification of mankind"--Dr. Johnson
"Amen, brother"-ED

Been that I just had to take my corporate diversity and sensitivity training been taught by Caucasians. And BTW, been myself Hispanic, I will repeat the same thing I commented on at work;

If you are White, shut the Phuck up. You do not have ANY idea what you are talking about. If you actually empathize with us, keep your opinion to your self. When we need your help, will ask. My $.02

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Hit them fast, Hit them hard and NEXT!
A good chica is like a good carpenter - No wood gets wasted!!!

Are you suggesting that, just because you're part of a minority in this country, you or your ethnic brothers can't be JUST as guilty of prejudice as any anglo (whether here in the "diaspora" or back home where you're the majority)? Get real! I think it is YOU that doesn't have ANY idea what YOU are talking about. Suggesting that someone, just because they're white, should "shut the Phuck up" and not be allowed to express their opinion or views on matters that can effect everyone regardless of what color they happen to be, is actually evidence of extreme prejudice on YOUR part. Thank you for help proving my point.

Just because you apparently feel that you're somehow a victim as a member of a poor misunderstood and discriminated minority, doesn't give you the right to come off the way you just did. As it happens, I am also a member of a ethnic minority (one much smaller than hispanics in the US) and have encountered more than my share of prejudice as well. I just don't carry a chip on my shoulder about it.

A much more positive response, if you really believed I don't have ANY idea what I'm talking about, would be to help educate me. Instead you seem more interested in sweeping the phenomenon of hispanic on hispanic prejudice under the rug.

I really do not have the time nor the energy to give this issue a complete dissertation and I though you will take the hint and stay out of the subject but here it goes;

WTF will you know? Have you ever been racially profile to your disadvantage?


Make up your mind, it is or is not prejudice or more likely racist? Unless you are non-white, it will be very hard for you to see or understand. Not only you do not understand but you are trying to justify racism. Stay off the subject.


And you know this because you read their minds? Again, talking without having the faint it of ideas while assuming a conclusion.


Sir, you may live there but you are still a visitor to their country and their culture. Do you actually believe that the CR economy is based on HDR? Do not try to justify ignorance on their part and passed for something else. This is just YOUR superiority complex speaking.


This is so high in the BS area and racist to boot that is hard to refute. I just going to said, any the data on this assumption?


I will hope so, even here in the USA that is true. Heard about the 2nd Amendment. Maybe they are learning something from us.


This one really got me rolling. Let me tell you a secret, pssst, get close, it is a latino country, duh!


Dude, you even making my point here. This happens on every country, white, black, Hispanic, Asian. Everything you quote or even hint at, it is a mix of the bable-caca that is communicated through the masses. Most of the so call prejudice that you are referring too is just ignorance of the masses. Either hang around with higher educated Hispanics or try to educate those that spew this garbage.


And how many different Latin countries have you live at? So again, spewing conclusions without any base.


Yeah, have you ever heard of Argentina or Chile? Dude, your ignorance of the subject is just amazing. We are all proud of our original country and are prejudice against others. That is life. Try to get a tica/tico to Mexico and you think the Mexicans will receive them with open arms, because they are “whiter”? NOT!


The rest of the bable-caca on the post is just that, garbage. You are just perpetuating stereotypes and local prejudice. Your only grace and ray of hope for you is your last sentence.


Like, I said, STAY OUT THIS SUBJECT!

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Hit them fast, Hit them hard and NEXT!
A good chica is like a good carpenter - No wood gets wasted!!!

Gee I wonder why the old thread got locked?

Shrug, it's HDR policy that every female entering the building be checked for ID. If a single woman in there hasn't been checked, someone's wife or not, it's the guard's ass. I would actually have a problem if the guards let female tourists in without ID based on what they looked like. It's a good policy that protects all of us (ie. you can count on the fact that everyone inside is 18+).

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heredia porn king

if US airports would use similar logical profiling we could all move through the airport in a reasonable manner.