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Tman
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:28 pm 
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ID...my mind is not closed. I just have to wonder what your agenda was in sending this out since you broached the subject in the first place. I have PREVIOUSLY read alot about these things...and tied to my verifiable experiences over 3+ years in CR...I dont think it is an issue of open or closed mind. As they said on Dragnet..."Just the Facts Sir, Just the Facts". These articles...and studies...are often devoid of the real issues...which is what some of us are questioning here. I'm just trying to offer some balance to what I think was a very tainted article...devoid of much substantiation.

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HolaB
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:38 pm 
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The Heritage Group is out of D.C.

The Global Competitive Report is based out of Geneva with supervision by the Swiss govt.

Political Economic Risk Consultancy Hong Kong based.
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Tman
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:16 pm 
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A couple interesting observations in just spending 10 minutes trying to be more "open minded"...

Interesting summary of world bank history for those interested...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Bank
* key quote from this page
Quote:
Development goals and strategies should be “owned” by the country, based on local stakeholder participation in shaping them


http://info.worldbank.org/governance/wg ... _chart.asp
Interesting to note from the sources of this report that CR has gone DOWNHILL in every meaningful category since 1998 in this graph...especially in the category of corruption. I guess maybe the intent of the article is in comparison to other countries. But to my reading, it appears they are proud that their corrupt practices havent gone as downhill as other countries apparently. That doesnt mean corruption has been reduced or inproved in the country...


And finally...
http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns ... t2001.html
Notable quote...

Quote:
For more than 50 years, the IMF and the World Bank have advanced a form of economic "development" that prioritizes the concerns of wealthy lenders and multinational corporations in the industrialized north while neglecting the needs of the world's poor majority. The institutions work as a kind of international loan shark, exerting enormous influence over the economies of more than 60 countries. In order to get loans, international assistance, and debt relief, countries must agree to conditions set by the Bank and Fund. Under the guise of promoting "free trade," market liberalization, and financial stability, these two institutions have forced cuts in health care, education and other social services for millions of people across the planet, thereby deepening poverty and increasing inequality. By elevating concerns about macroeconomic financial stability above all other competing values, the institutions have created a human rights catastrophe

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Irish Drifter
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:16 pm 
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Tman wrote:
ID...my mind is not closed. I just have to wonder what your agenda was in sending this out since you broached the subject in the first place.


There was no agenda. I just found it an interesting article that some others might also find it interesting.

Tman wrote:
I have PREVIOUSLY read alot about these things...


That is about a verifiable as someone posting I received 126 PM's of support of my posistion.

Tman wrote:
These articles...and studies...are often devoid of the real issues...which is what some of us are questioning here. I'm just trying to offer some balance to what I think was a very tainted article...devoid of much substantiation.


How can the article be tainted? It offered no opinion pro or con on the accuracy of the study it simply reported on it. I think your arguments are not only tainted by your personal experience but absolutely devoid of any independent substantiation. In other words the very things you find wrong with the study are the things you use to bolster your position.

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Tman
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:41 am 
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We all want to see what we want to see I guess...

No further comments.

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D2864
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:55 am 
BEST SOURCE I'VE EVER FOUND FOR CORRUPTION.



Transparency International (TI) - the global coalition against corruption

http://www.transparency.org

Corruption Perceptions Index 2006:
http://www.transparency.org/policy_rese ... s/gcb/2006


The annual Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI), first released in 1995, is the best known of TI’s tools. It has been widely credited with putting TI and the issue of corruption on the international policy agenda. The CPI ranks more than 150 countries by their perceived levels of corruption, as determined by expert assessments and opinion surveys.

15 - Hong Kong
17 - Japan
20 - USA
34 - Israel
40 - Jordan
55 - Costa Rica
70 - Mexico
84 - Panama (ut oh)
121 - Philippines (i love it!)

The higher the country is on the list, the less corrupt.


If you really want to dig:

Bribe Payers Index 2006:
http://www.transparency.org/policy_rese ... i/bpi_2006

Global Corruption Barometer 2006:
http://www.transparency.org/policy_rese ... s/cpi/2006


There is a ton of stuff on this site, have at it.

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SurfTown
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:03 am 
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Irish Drifter wrote:
Tman wrote:
ID...my mind is not closed. I just have to wonder what your agenda was in sending this out since you broached the subject in the first place.


There was no agenda. I just found it an interesting article that some others might also find it interesting.

Tman wrote:
I have PREVIOUSLY read alot about these things...


That is about a verifiable as someone posting I received 126 PM's of support of my posistion.

Tman wrote:
These articles...and studies...are often devoid of the real issues...which is what some of us are questioning here. I'm just trying to offer some balance to what I think was a very tainted article...devoid of much substantiation.


How can the article be tainted? It offered no opinion pro or con on the accuracy of the study it simply reported on it. I think your arguments are not only tainted by your personal experience but absolutely devoid of any independent substantiation. In other words the very things you find wrong with the study are the things you use to bolster your position.


ID are you sure you weren't a lawyer in your past life? Inventor of Trivial pursuit answers or maybe the guy who invented Wikipedia?
I do find your information very useful and in general accurate
Carry on with the vetting : :lol:
Besides I can settle all of your guys arguments right now with one line:
It depends what the meaning of is is.
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Irish Drifter
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:29 am 
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SurfTown wrote:
ID are you sure you weren't a lawyer in your past life? Inventor of Trivial pursuit answers or maybe the guy who invented Wikipedia?


Wikipedia? :roll: Whoever came up with that should be shot :lol:

And anyone who relies on it for factual information :roll: should be aware that it often contains glaring errors.

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Mia2Ewr
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:44 am 
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I concur with ID about Wikipedia, but mostly because I have a suspicion that Witkowski gets all of his information about whatever he posts from there (with the exception of the gay bars he seems to be so knowledgeable about). :)
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Tman
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:40 am 
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Quote:
Wikipedia? Whoever came up with that should be shot

And anyone who relies on it for factual information should be aware that it often contains glaring errors


I suppose insidecostarica.com is a more reliable source for factual information? :lol:

To me, the core of what we are discussing here is the reliability of studies, and media coverage "spinning" those studies. My responses have not been about Costa Rica per se...I would have the same response if a study or media report of that study tried to purport that Panama or Mexico were some incorruptible angel of a republic.

Lets face it, unfortunately, the text books most of us grew up with on American history are full of mis information or "watering down" of what really happened in the past...let alone current coverups of all that is happening in the present. Yet, a majority of people have never questioned the validity of what their history teachers or books told them...OR what CNN or Fox reports on a daily basis. Its a scary thing...

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Papichullo
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:51 am 
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What kind of Agenda would ID have for posting this and invoking discussion. I think someone else has the AGENDA!

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Irish Drifter
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:51 am 
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Tman, lighten up man.

Comparing a newspaper article with a supposed reference source is off the wall.

Wikipedia has at times been inaccurate and in fact has been sued many times for the inaccurate information that is edited into various articles by individuals with absolutely no credentials. Wikipedia itself has warned of the possibilities of inaccuracy.You want to quote information from there to bolster you point of view go right ahead. Just do not expect many others to take the reference seriously.

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VegasBob
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:01 am 
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OK I can't stand this any more. It really upsets me when "a person" with a real AGENDA accuses another person with NO AGENDA of having an ulterior motive. "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" and "I think thou doth protest too much" are quotes that come to mind. I hope this thread ends soon before I have to tell what I really know about AGENDAS and past performances. As was said...."Let's get back to talking about pu*sy.
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Tman
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:04 am 
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Guys...Im just trying to "connect the dots" here. Wikipedia was only one link mentioned for GENERAL information about the World Bank. Most of us realize it is just a general source that is updated by various individuals throughout the web in unscientific fashion. Yet for basic info and links to other sources on most any particular subject...it can be a great tool.

Again...no agenda on my part. I questioned the validity and meaning of the study and article...pure and simple. It was not personal. I am simply trying to warn unsuspecting readers or "opiners" to not think that CR is some mecca for honest, uncorruptible business and/or government affiliations based on this study. Jeesh...talk about lightening up... :roll:

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Irish Drifter
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:10 am 
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Tman wrote:
Again...no agenda on my part.


Whew, we can all breath easier now knowing that. :P :P :P :P

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