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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:19 pm 
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A very interesting discussion.


Last edited by Witling on Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:27 pm 
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Pacifica:

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However, gringa women are readily available willing and compliant as long as we retain the power. They like manly men who are not afraid to tell them to pound sand and walk away. They are so used to getting their behinds kissed that it makes them wet with shock when a man tells them how it is, take it or leave it. It's all a power game.


Well said, bro. Sounds like right out of the "Dr. Love System" he pitches (askmen.com). Being a challenge is what gets gringas going, no argument there. But you know what..it's still not the same. I have a 30 y.o. civilian girl in Rio studying law who I'll see in a couple of weeks. She's a maven in the sack, and all woman. No games. She's made it clear she wants to be with me short-term or long-term (after her studies), but no phucking around, or she'll dump my ass in a heartbeat like she did her last boyfriend of 5 years. One lie, and I'm out. No second chance. Needless to say, I have some pondering to do.

I bring her up not because of the particulars, but only to suggest I haven't found a 30 y.o. here who is in her league in brains, looks, or between the sheets - and this is the important part - who interests me! There are 30 and 40 y.o. women here who are available, and I run into them at work, in the gym, at the internet cafe on Sobe, even in my building. They're either fat, talk too much, have a funny glare in their eyes, etc. Where are the comparable girls here? They're married or otherwise hitched most likely. But in Latin America, there are tons of single (by choice), smart women, and they like American men. If you can go fishing in a lake full of trout, why would you opt to fish in a lake overcrowded with other fishermen and one that has a history of picky fish? On top of that, the p4p thing is icing on the cake, unless you choose it for your main course.

We can say there is no difference all we want - until we convince ourselves we're the problem - but it truly comes down to culture. If that were not the case, then Iran should be no different than Colombia for hot dates. And the Taoists in 900 A.D. who had concubines of six and seven women would be fiction. Of course, it's not fiction. It was the culture of that age in China.

If the culture here ain't what you're ready for, go out and find another. If you're like me and find sport in rubbing gringa's faces in the litter box they carved for themselves, well, every little bit helps. Change is long, change is slow. It took the women's (bowel) movement 40 years to get us to this enchanting place in our history. It's not going to change for the better in 5 minutes.

Even if you find a hot, younger American babe who's into your company, it's doubtful she'll be enough to keep you out of an airplane. The mystique of the Latina is simply too tantalizing...

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"Don't never trust a woman, till she's dead and deep....One day she'll say she loves you, next day she'll throw you on the street."

"...and if men didn't have this unquenchable desire to have sex with women, then they wouldn't have anything to do with women at all. I certainly wouldn't..."


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:48 am 
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Hey,I have to reply to this one my woman batterd mind needs to vent .
I have to agree with almost everything JAZZM said in here .Every woman Ive dated or married placed me in a role in her life I had a job with them and if I didnt do it good I would be punished .They felt they are entitled to it ffor what reason I have no fuckin idea.there like Treat me like a princess but Im not doing anything to deserve it . When I stopped being the ultimate employee they look for the bigger better deal .Well DOC LOVE says the airplane of love has only one parachute and fellows I took it this time .

As for latin woman My only experience is online dating ,I can tell you that they lie and play games and think all guys are players ,they judge you fast and have alot of little secrets .I hate then as much as gringas hopefully after planting a few in july my attitude will change and I can surrender my membership to the heman woman haters club/


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:09 am 
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Jersey - I think once you get down there, you'll be all right. Online dating compared with ground zero is like CBJ's with two condoms, vs bareback with traga...

Wit - Damn, I saw the pic of your systems engineer. She rocks and is also elegant. Those Colombianas...man. Can you imagine if that was doable here? But had she grown up here, she'd be different, sure as shit. And she's not with you for the reasons often cited, regarding coming here, moochin', lookin' for a free ride, etc. It's similar with my namorada in Rio. Actually I've met more hot Latina civilians in the last 4 years who didn't want to come than did. It's as though we need a reason to justify their behavior for going with us. How twisted is that? It's called growing up and groveling for crumbs; living the laws of gringas.

Thanks for sharing your story. You've been around the block and have a basis beyond theory for your words. You've lived it and still are. And it looks like you may have hit gold.

I didn't want to rebound after my divorce 3 years ago, which Pacifica correctly referred to as a mistake. It's tempting to get hitched to the first warm body you encounter after a long marriage and divorce. I know you've been lookin' for a steady, and you know I've been on the fence several times. But it's nice to stay in the game in the meantime, and there's lots of game in Colombia.

Good luck and hope to see you in Cali sometime.
Jazz

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"Don't never trust a woman, till she's dead and deep....One day she'll say she loves you, next day she'll throw you on the street."

"...and if men didn't have this unquenchable desire to have sex with women, then they wouldn't have anything to do with women at all. I certainly wouldn't..."


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:44 am 
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JerseyGringo wrote:
I can tell you that they lie and play games and think all guys are players ,they judge you fast and have alot of little secrets .I hate then as much as gringas hopefully after planting a few in july my attitude will change and I can surrender my membership to the heman woman haters club/


I don't hate women or blame American girls. I think it's self serving to pretend they are all bad. If you can compete, you win. If not, you spank. But I don't want to work that hard. We all know it's totally unnecessary with CR, Brazil, Colombia, even Europe as options. Anyone on this board still getting their ego hurt by American women need to snap out of it.

I completely agree that we need to recognize when/if a girl needs to be reeled in and taught a lesson. Sometimes that's hard to do. Sometimes we lose control. But the fact probably is that for the overwhelming majority of us whatever faults a girl has deep into a relationship, it was telegraphed while we were just dating- probably within the first couple months. The love or infatuation drug our brain pumps to create the likelihood of copulation conveniently allows us to overlook that. Then, when it all wears off and we feel abused we ask ourselves how this could have happened. The fact is, she didn't change at all. I know guys who have dramas and challenges with working girls they see on a regular basis. Relationships are relationships and women are women to a large extent.

I can empathize with Wit's ventures and success in Colombia. I imagine it's out there. I imagine there might even be a larger percentage of honest, sincere, sweet, available women in Colombia compared to the US. But it's not likely that drastic. A major component of the difference is the lack of materialism in Colombia and the girls not expecting as much, not needing as much. But to the extent that we also are Americans we are affected by that also. It's not only the girls. It would be wrong for us to pretend like plenty of good hearted, honest American girl don't exist. It would be more honest for us to admit that by and large we're looking for girls to Phuck and enhance our ego; meet our approval needs. And when they don't do that, look out. If you're sincerely looking for a single girl to have a nice relationship, you will find one. Chances are they are out there but you really aren't looking for that. Girls can smell it when you're just trying to get in their pants. The fact is, if a girl is attracted and we're in the ballpark, we'll have our shot. It's a bitter pill.


On a side note, was out a couple months back watching a band play and met a group of Colombianas, from Bogota. There were a couple ladies(moms), some daughters, a son, and a Colombiana friend of the family who was a knockout(probably a model). We hung out and I was more or less accepted in the group. A daughter was there with friends from school(UGA) and they were having fun and the little Colombiana was just like any American girl- letting her stuff show, teasing, all that. She was nice to say the least. The pretty model looking friend was also nice overall. Thing is, I tried to stay in touch with her and see if we could do something sometime.. She kind of shot me down although it was no big deal. But if I wanted I could form a lot of conclusions in my own mind none of which would probably be accurate but would certainly suit my own needs to shield myself from the simple fact that she probably just wasn't attracted to me. It happens but I'm not down on Colombianas over it, that's for sure.


Last edited by TicaFan on Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:49 am 
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Wit and Jazz ,You are truly an ispiration .thanks for the insights . Jersey


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:01 pm 
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The situation that exists today between the sexes in this country could not have happened without our help. We "enabled" it by going along out of simple insecurity. When women decided patriarchy was evil in the '60's and '70's, we were collectively caught off guard, agreed, and blamed ourselves. When the women's movement insisted on androgyny, we felt awful for all those years of being animals with women, even though they were having orgasms left and right. And today there are plenty of men who still blame themselves, unlike most of the "enlightened" on this board.

Below is an interesting article written by a sharp woman a few years back. She talks about phucking and oral sex, problems since the woman's movement, and even mentions the third world in a positive light.

Enjoy.

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No Intercourse, Please -- We're Enlightened

Sensitive, feminized and resentful, today's young men no longer have the sexual authority to please a woman -- no matter how much oral sex they perform.

By Ann Marlowe

It was after seeing "Thirteen" and noticing the display rack of handcuffs at Sam Goody on Sixth Avenue that it hit me: The polymorphously perverse, gender-is-just-a-construct future that radical feminists and academics used to dream of has actually arrived. Men no longer have any authority, either in their own eyes or in women's, the genders are distinguished socially mainly by stuff they buy, and eroticism has fled from the bedroom to the store. It's sexier for most of us to go shopping than to make love, and so we do. As a friend said when I told her I'd spent much of the weekend in bed with a man, "Who has time for that? The weekend is the only chance I have to do my shopping."

And handcuffs -- well, seeing them at Sam Goody made me wistful. Once upon a time, you could still shock a guy by pulling them out. I suspect that there's a connection between the collapse of masculine authority and the mainstreaming of S/M; neither gender is too good at distinguishing power and authority, and nostalgia for male authority can translate into fetishizing symbols of power. Women secretly want men with authority, but they fall for insecure passive-aggressive guys who view every aspect of life as a power struggle, or for cranky killjoys or petty sadists.

The collapse of the patriarchy was supposed to make women happy -- we were supposed to get more sex, freer sex, better sex, more loving sex and better relations between men and women. If you went to an Ivy League college in the last 20 years or had a professor who did, you probably heard something about this.

But instead men treat women worse than ever, women are retreating to 1950s notions that sex is something men like, and the nearly successful effort to stamp out gender contrast has made upper-middle-class American sex miserably dull, with or without handcuffs. Men and women are just too much alike stylistically now for much erotic energy to arise from their conjunction.

This is especially true of those in their 20s. Here's a relevant confession: Ever since I've been in my early 30s I've tended to date younger men. I'm now 45, and in the last five years I haven't been able to get interested in men in their 20s, no matter how cute or buff. Men in their 20s -- well, the Ivy League, professional sorts I meet, with their yoga classes and exquisite sensitivity about treating a woman any differently from a man -- just aren't masculine enough to be bedable.

 Thus the legacy of two decades of feminism in academia. Younger people have bought into the idea that your lover or spouse is a friend of the opposite sex -- although one who will exhibit bad manners you wouldn't expect from your friends' pets, much less your friends. The bad manners and androgyny go hand in hand; along with the erotic aura, tenderness and respect have disappeared. These young guys feel free to admit to physical fears, grooming preoccupations and social anxieties their fathers had the good sense to conceal, if they had them. They dress like overgrown toddlers, in oversize T-shirts and baggy pants, clothing that begs you not to take them seriously as grown-ups. They're pussy-whipped and tamed by 30, but just below the surface they seethe with hostility and resentment at women, because they're quite aware that their girlfriends or wives treat sex as a commodity to be doled out in return for something better. Neither the young men nor the young women enjoy it as much as they were told they would. Maybe the situation is worse for the women because, after all, it's the men who are more like women, not the women who are more like men.

The women have won, if you've won when you have worse sex than your grandmother did. Secretly they don't find these men very exciting, either. And they don't feel feminine when they're with them. What does "feminine" mean anyway, besides the result of a lot of grooming rituals drag queens can do too? Maybe it means having a baby. Sex is for corralling a man long enough to secure a "commitment" and then a baby.

The new joylessness: Talk with someone in their 20s about marriage and they bring in the word "work" in the first three minutes. I didn't think like that when I was with a man for seven years in my 20s, and I don't recall that my friends did either. This "work" goes along with the ubiquitous use of the word "relationship" in the romantic sphere, a word first used for a sexual connection in 1944, according to the OED; before that it was only used in a business context. And now that the patriarchy's gone, everything isn't pleasure, as radical theorists imagined, but business.

It makes perfect sense that the most popular sex act among younger people is oral sex, which lends itself so well to exchange. One for you, one for me. Check any online dating service and you'd have the impression that the male sex organ was the tongue. A recent scan revealed that of the 4,108 men on Craig's List seeking women for "casual encounters," 209 used the word "Phuck" in their ads, 219 referred to their "tongue" and 363 to their "oral" predilections. Heaven knows what the rest of them planned to do in bed.

Oral sex is what American women say they want, and they have their men trained to do it, but do either men or women really prefer it to intercourse? No one dares say it, but the clitoral orgasm might be as much a myth as the vaginal -- or as little. If you return to the original article that debunked the idea that women enjoy phucking, Anne Koedt's "The Myth of the Vaginal Orgasm" (1970), you'll notice that she gave no medical evidence for her belief that the clitoris rather than the vagina is the source of female sexual pleasure. You'll also notice that she has a strong aversion to the vagina. It's one thing to say that women only have clitoral orgasms, but one doubts the sanity of someone who writes that "women need no anesthesia inside the vagina during surgery." Who's first in line for that?

My bet is that just as many or more women have orgasms from phucking as from oral sex while many others don't have either and fake them. That's right, they fake the clitoral orgasms their boyfriends congratulate themselves on having the sensitivity to bestow. If we're ready to believe that many women fake vaginal orgasms, even over many years with their husbands, why are we so sure some women don't fake their clitoral orgasms too? It's likely that many men believe they can tell more easily that way -- and that, not some extraordinary new access to kindness and generosity, might be the source of the new male "enthusiasm" for oral sex. But pin them down and they'll admit they can't be sure.

Meanwhile, women who have orgasms from being phucked have learned to be quiet about it. phucking is a suspect preference these days, as handcuffs used to be; after all, everyone knows that penetration is politically incorrect, involving all sorts of issues of gender difference and dominance and submission. Women who want a man to do what only a man can do in bed have to stick to over-40s or men from the Third World who haven't heard that they're supposed to pretend to like cunnilingus. But most American men have to pretend if they want to get laid, just as many women over the millennia have pretended to enjoy intercourse.

 Nothing I say is meant to deny that oral sex is pleasurable for some people to give as well as to receive. But cunnilingus can be interpreted just as phucking can and neither is simple. Each has a cultural role. And just as some people like phucking partly for its cultural baggage, some people like cunnilingus for its associations or its lack of them.

The new American ideal is an equal relationship, satisfying our craving for justice and for simplicity. When I hear American women in their 20s and early 30s talk about their boyfriends, they seem preoccupied with whether they do 50 percent of the dishes and whether they spend 50 percent of the time talking about their problems and anxieties. Of course this is compensation for years of institutionalized unfairness, but it also sounds a lot like a defense against the powerful feelings they have for the men they love. And so with oral sex. It fits the 50-50 ethos better than phucking.

It also fits our new suspicion of deep emotions. Another reason phucking is out of fashion is that it makes us feel too much. Part of the appeal of oral sex -- and why it is rapidly becoming a favorite of teenagers -- is that it's lite sex. No one loses control, loses track of where they are, forgets that music is playing, screams, or weeps, when someone performs oral sex on them. But phucking stirs deep emotions that go to our core as animals and humans. And with the absence of tenderness and trust between men and women, we're more and more inclined to banish deep emotion from our post-patriarchal lives.

What's often lost in the insistence on equality is quality -- how the people feel about each other, how much love they can give each other. We now feel queasy about the romantic language of our ancestors, who used the metaphors of slavery and devotion unabashedly. But is there another language with which to speak of love? Love does involve two people putting themselves in the power of each other. We've forgotten that what we are looking for between men and women is fairness and compassion, not identity, and there can be justice between people who acknowledge that their balance of power is unequal. The heterosexual act of love does involve women putting themselves literally in the power of men. And we no longer trust enough to do so.
 

_________________
"Don't never trust a woman, till she's dead and deep....One day she'll say she loves you, next day she'll throw you on the street."

"...and if men didn't have this unquenchable desire to have sex with women, then they wouldn't have anything to do with women at all. I certainly wouldn't..."


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:59 pm 
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Jazz interesting read. For all her rhetoric she seems very unfulfilled too me. Imagine trying to please that, it I mean her :? ! You think this woman would every be content with ANYTHING for long?????????? She is way too complex for her own good is my opinion. I believe simple people seem to be happier & stay more satisfied than the overly complex. Goes back to don't wish for what you want you may get it.

Women over analyze here just like men. Sometimes it is just nice to forget all the BS, stop all the crazy dances & confusion & just hold somebody all night long like a Latina. They squirm in the right way for me anyway. Their energy wears you out in a good way not in a frustrating way generally I find. I believe Ticafan is right on with his posts & I do not hate gringas. I just rather leave the gringas to the guys that want to torture themselves. The risk reward factor is much better in Latina based countries for what ever reason.

I think I am a guy who hates mindless games & rather get to more meaningful deep issues than the latest drivel that so many women are into. A little is ok but so many women live in a "zone" I want nothing to do with. I don't hate them for this I just do my thing & they do theirs. I accept that just fine, after all it simply is what it is. The most important part of it all to me is my thing gives me total control over my life to be with whom I choose down south.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:26 pm 
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I have news for the lady that wrote that article, there are PLENTY of teenagers still having sex. I'd like to see her data and demographics. All you have to do is look around at the young minority girls hauling their Babi*s around and you start to get the picture. Educated and upper class K*ds are probably engaging in oral sex as a preference because it gets the job done, cuts down on pregnancy and disease, and lets them keep something special for down the road when they make the mistake of getting married. ;)

If this were a board of normally single men who were just trying to get some good, honest dates and have some nice relationships, ok. If you're actually trying that and it's not working, I feel for you because that sucks and we all deserve respect. I just have a hard time believing that what most of us are really struggling over and frustrated with is good old fashioned, honest relationships. And certainly my experience is that if it's what I wanted before I started hobbying it's far less important now because I don't need it. How noble are your advances towards women? Are we upset that we cannot get 20 year old girls to spend time with us, probably. But can we really do that in any other country outside of the P4P world? A little maybe, but not much at all. Most of us are not out there with the best of intentions. We want to screw girls and a lot of them. We want them to send signals that we're interesting and sexy. We want them to drop what they're doing and revolve around us. The situation is not nearly as drastic as it could be painted and knowing what we all do know to find pleasure and satisfaction in other places, it's a nit if you ask me. If I run into an American girl that thinks I can't have better than her I would laugh. I sure as hell wouldn't waste any time trying to prove it to her. If there are so many latin girls available, just waiting for a nice American guy to rescue them, why aren't we all doing that? I have a feeling part of it is that it's so much more fun playing the field in a well-stocked P4P environmentl. After all, it's great to be the king. I feel so lucky that on my first trip to SJO I met a guy that shared the existence of CRT and the Sportsmens Lodge with me.

Where I think men truly get screwed is by the law in situations that result from relationships and the dividing of assets. And when a women uses K*ds to hurt a man or make his life difficult by not giving him time, it's criminal in my book.

By the way, what are the Latin girls in South Florida like.. I can't imagine they are all so "Americanized" that they forgot their rather modest ancestry and culture. I know one guy from the board PMs me and says he does quite well with them and that they are readily available with just a little big of game. Is that about right?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:00 pm 
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Today as my Colombian novia and I were chatting I mentioned all the things I need to do to make myself more desirably to her (grow taller, lose weight, grow some hair, get lasik surgery, etc). She said those things weren't important to her.

She said, "only i need that you really love me... the other things i don´t need".

I asked her what it was she looks for in a man.
These were her responses:

1. que sea amoroso - that he is affectionate
2. que me trate bien - he has good communication with her
3. que sea trabajador - is a hard worker (like has a job)
4. que le guste estar en casa - likes to stay home (not out chasing skirt)
5. que le guste viajar - likes to travel
6. ir a cenar - likes to go out to dinner
7. al cine - likes to go to the movies
8. a caminar - likes to go walking
9. que me ame locamente - is crazy about her
10. que no fume - doesn't smoke
11. que beba poco - doesn't drink too much (she's had problems in the past)
12. que le guste el sexo - enjoys sex (one of my strong suits).

I think I can handle all of these.


Last edited by Witling on Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:28 pm 
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Wit...congrats on your find. I think you both are lucky to find each other. Of course that never would have happened if you hadnt MADE it so. Thats what a lot of guys in this world dont understand anymore. You have to go GET what you want...and dont settle for less. Sure, it means some solo nights, liking yourself enough to not have to be in constant companionship with someone you dont really like, and having some "game" when it comes to the list of things you mention above. I think some of us guys have to anaylze if we and our ways are partly to blame for women...and even gringas...to lose interest in us. If we are just a complacent puppy dog...they wont respect us. If we are just a plain DOG...they wont like that either. But if we treat them like a queen...but still retain our 'kingship"...they can and will love us forever in some cases. And as we both have found out, the Colombianas make better Queens. :twisted:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:52 pm 
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Witling wrote:
Today as my Colombian novia and I were chatting I mentioned all the things I need to do to make myself more desirably to her (grow taller, lose weight, grow some hair, get lasik surgery, etc). She said those things weren't important to her. I asked her what it was she looks for in a man. These were her responses:

1. que sea amoroso - that he is affectionate
2. que me trate bien - he has good communication with her
3. que sea trabajador - is a hard worker (like has a job)
4. que le guste estar en casa - likes to stay home (not out chasing skirt)
5. que le guste viajar - likes to travel
6. ir a cenar - likes to go out to dinner
7. al cine - likes to go to the movies
8. a caminar - likes to go walking
9. que me ame locamente - is crazy about her
10. que no fume - doesn't smoke
11. que beba poco - doesn't drink too much (she's had problems in the past)
12. que le guste el sexo - enjoys sex (one of my strong suits).


13. doesn't let his white hair and beard grow out so much that he ends up looking like Rip Van Winkle... :wink:

Kudos to everyone who's contributed on this thread - the quality of writing and congenial give and take truly represents the best of what this board has to offer.

And appreciate TicaFan's injection of some cold, hard reality into the normal "gringa bashing" dialog. Sure, American women have changed as society has changed, and perhaps have become a little less accessible as a result. But rather than cast 100% of the blame their way, I think we may need to look inside more and examine our own motives. Is an honest, single relationship with just one woman what most of us are truly seeking? Or rather - like TicaFan (and myself) - now that we know what's available in CR and elsewhere, is it that we just don't want to work that hard? Especially when we can experience what seems like the best of all possible worlds with several close simultaneous PFP "relationships"?

I congratulate Wit on his new found Colombiana love, and certainly wish him all the best. Personally though, as fond as I am of Latinas, I'm pretty sure that if I ever again decide to take the relationship plunge, it will be with someone with whom I share a strong native cultural bond, with similar views on politics, tastes in entertainment, preferences in leisure activities, work experience, points of reference, etc.

In other words, a gringa (oh the horror...) :shock:

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Last edited by GetRhythm on Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:07 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:24 pm 
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Tman,
Thanks for the comments. I think it will be an interesting adventure. We'll all have to hook up in Medellin sometime.

GR,
Actually it is amazing how many things she and I have in common. We often are thinking the same thing at the same time. We are both in the computer business and have similar long-term goals. She has more education than me, works harder and if she eventually moves to the USA she will be making more money than me.

We both enjoy the items listed above as well as sports (her ex-husband used to take her to the soccer games in Medellin). All I have to do now is teach her to love football and NASCAR and it will be perfect.

Our music, movies and travel tastes are all similar. Outside of the fact that I'm not Catholic we are very much alike. But I've been in that situation before and it's a non-issue for me.

I thought I had a good marriage with la Caleña (mas o menos) but I have seen so many little things about this Paisa that are even better.

Of course it could all turn to crap someday but for now it's looking good.
Wit


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:35 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 8:22 pm
Posts: 1188
Zip and Tica,

I got a kick out of the way this woman writes. She doesn't threaten me; on the contrary, she sounds like a 45-y.o. I'd do that weekend-in-bed thing she referred to. She recognizes that we're not androgynous and that part of what makes life worth living is differences between the sexes. The "Ill do 50% this, you do 50% that" talk that men live with in this culture is still absent in Latin America, and the silence is deafening and very obvious when with Latinas.

Talk of what "women want" bores me. That's because having grown up in the '70's, I've heard enough, I've adapted enough, I've compromised enough, and I've changed my fundamental "male nature" enough to last several lifetimes. Latinas in their native land are exceedingly satisfying to me - including non's - because as Marlowe correctly states, .."phucking stirs deep emotions that go to our core as animals and humans." Latinas demonstrate they know this and are not as leary of the appearance of being sexual. Generally I find them more sexual, more willing to phuck/suck with abandon, have far less "rules," are more willing to experiment, are more accepting of men's kink, and the list goes on and on. Of course if you have a girlfriend down there, you're still going to have to lie, fabricate your schedule, etc. if you want to monger, just as you do here. But even in this area, there seems to be a "You know how guys are" kind of attitude on the part of many Latinas, which, if it existed in the '50's in this country, has long since become another bit of evidence supporting feminist's views of men as chauvinist pigs. Age is an important issue too. We all get old, which is why I found it insightful she referenced men over 40 and the third world as where American women with healthy appetites for animal phucking need to go to. Of course it was tongue and cheek, but there's a grain of truth. These men in her estimation are less likely to have been ruined by the dreck that's been shoveled our way by the women's movement over the last 30 years, imploring us to be sensitive women with dicks.

Here's how I see it; don't apologize for being a man. Call it as you see it. Don't be afraid to say gringas are wrong, misguided, and self-serving if they are. Perhaps being a product of this culture is the culprit, but who has time for fancy explanations. I don't. And if p4p is better down south, go. If your experience with non's is better, go. If you find the women more accepting of you, go. If you find the women more passionate, go. And while biding your time here, obviously do the best you can. You won't find girlfriends or p4p'ers on the order of Latin America, but with novel approaches, especially using the internet, mixed with putting yourself in situations Pacifica talked about, such as taking courses, hitting the library, doing a wine tasting, taking a yoga class, hitting the gym, etc., you should be able to find enough action to tide you over so you don't have to "spank" it. Hanging out on the sofa is about the worst thing you can do. Ten days until Cali. I'll report if anything has changed.

I'm pretty sure it hasn't. 8)

Jazz

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"Don't never trust a woman, till she's dead and deep....One day she'll say she loves you, next day she'll throw you on the street."

"...and if men didn't have this unquenchable desire to have sex with women, then they wouldn't have anything to do with women at all. I certainly wouldn't..."


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