www.CostaRicaTicas.com

We all have opinions. Mine happens to be that it is inappropriate, for a number of reasons, to denigrate the United States before a group of non United States citizens in a third country.

Naturally you have the right to disagree and voice that disagreement without resorting to capitalizing the "you" when referring to the person you disagree with.

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Pura Vida
Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four
essential food groups:
alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat.
Alex Levine

What difference does it make that the guy is openly gay? Well, I'll tell you.

I've had contact with dozens of gay men (okay, okay...take the joke and run with it, butt holes). What I have observed is that men who are compelled to share their homosexuality with others, who have kicked down the closet doors and who are militant about gay rights are, well...annoying. They seem to believe several falacies:

1. Everyone is intrested in the fact that they're gay, and
1a. Everyone wants to hear intimate details of their sex lives or romantic struggles.

2. Their opinions, especially regarding style, food or entertainment are never wrong.

3. Straight men are either insignificant or potential butt-buddies.

I have listened to voices made artificially strident and feminine, screeching ill-considered opinions about everything from Martha Stewart to Iraq. Yes, Irish Drifter... I believe in this context that CTG wasn't gay bashing, just pointing out the very irritating behavior of a loud-mouthed queer who mistakes his "courage" at being openly gay for intelligence and validity of opinion.

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Pura Vulva! Wandering through the dark, I am El Ciego.

I tend to agree with El Ciego,

Hopefully the issue was not that he was gay, but that he was an asshole. I personally could care less about someones sexual orientation.


BKTUNA

Hey big boy..... Do you really mean that !?!?!?
MG

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You ALWAYS have an option ....... "NEXT" !!!

Aye, same here. Anyone who is vocal to the point of annoying others or making them uncomfortable is an asshole, whether they're an openly gay "flamer", a bible thumping preacher, a doom and gloom conspiracy theorist...it's all the same. Yes they all have a right to their opinion and freedom of speech but come on...on a tour in CR openly bashing America? How could this possibly be welcomed and appreciated by anyone?
Niko

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Asian women are still women.

Niko your comments seem to show that this discussion has drifted off course to the point of being misinterpreted.



I can not find a single posting in this thread where anybody indicated they thought that bashing the United States was welcomed or appreciated.



That was my the point of my original post. Pointing out that the person was "openly gay" added nothing of value to the situation. As you rightly point out had they been a "bible thumping preacher" or had the poster used some other pejorative terminology it would have added nothing to the point of the posting which I believe was that he had confronted an individual who was making disparaging remarks about the the United States on a tour in Costa Rica.

Hopefully the thread can deal with the issue raised of the inappropriate behavior of the individual rather than the side issue of what he may or may not have been.

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Pura Vida
Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four
essential food groups:
alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat.
Alex Levine

Perhaps a reminder to this "gentleman" that we're all on vacation to get away for a little while and to enjoy the beauty and splendor of Costa Rica. Then ask him "Isn't that why you're here?"

If a subtle reminder doesn't work, then a more direct request would be in order. Something in the order of " It's unfortunate that you have issues with the U.S. but we're not there now, we're on vacation in Costa Rica. All of us are on this tour to enjoy the sites and sounds of this country, not the country you're from. Please extend us the courtesy of enjoying the tour rather than the problems you're having in a country we're not even at right now."

If he still doesn't get the message, I'd go to the tour guide and ask him/her to address the "gentleman" or demand a refund because the tour is being ruined by a loud, obnoxious individual they allowed on the bus. After all, I paid for a tour, not to hear someone spouting off their political views or personal vendetta about his own country. I'd also tell the tour guide that I would no longer being using their services again and would not recommend any of their tours to others either. Business is business and I want to be a satisfied customer.

If that got no results or if the tour guide did nothing about it, I'd then go to my last resort and confront the individual. I usually have two or three wingmen with me on my trips to CR so I'd probably have my "flight" with me to reiterate my point. After accomplishing my objective, at the end of the tour or on the next day at the tour desk, I'd bring my concerns to them and demand a refund. I'd encourage everyone else on the tour who didn't have a good time to do the same. If the tour guide can't control the guests on the tour, they'd better have a contingency plan. Again, business is still business and I want to spend my money on an enjoyable tour. Since you just can't walk away in the middle of the tour, nor should you, it's the responsibility of the tour company to ensure that you're having a reasonably good time.

Anyway, that's my long-winded view on a situation like this. Since the tour company brought us together, they have some responsibility in keeping the customers happy and under control.

Americans have the right and sometimes the duty to say what they want where they want in front of who they want. It is called free speech. Although I agree it was inapropriate to go on and on in front of a captive and disinterested audience.

I find it ironic that those who talk so much about freedom and such things are so offended when people exercise those freedoms.

I am all for the right to free speech, especially in my own country. I demand and protect this right every day at work. But the reason we often hear the phrase "ugly American" is because we impose our "rights" and "beliefs" in other countries without thought to the very citizens of the country we are visiting. We assume, as Americans, we have the "best" way or the "only" way. Remember, we're visitors in a foreign country and we have no right to impose our American "rights" or "beliefs"in a country not even our own. As guests in Costa Rica, or any foreign country, we need to be gracious and polite to our hosts.

That is why I suggested the business route to address the problem. We all have the right to choose or not choose a business based on the service it provides. If I am dissatisfied with a service, I have a right to address the issue with the owners of the business. However, while discussing the issues in Costa Rica, I cannot impose American laws or practices because it wouldn't apply. However, any good business owner catering to tourists would recognize and consider the needs of their clients if they want to continue a successful business. And that is not just the "American" way to do business, it's international.

Freedom of Speech is an American right and I value it. But on vacation in Costa Rica, no one has the right to impose or expect this privilege unless you're in the U.S. embassy.

'Nuff said !!!

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You ALWAYS have an option ....... "NEXT" !!!

Many intersecting responses here. It is a tough question. While we Americans value free speech to the extent that we have it written into our Constitution, we don't always recognize its limitations. For example, free speech does not exist in a private context. The constitutional guarantee only prevents a government from restricting our speech. We do not enjoy any sort of free speech right in the example given in this thread. Which leads to another issue, already pointed out, that CR might not have such free speech rights. In any event, USA laws do not prevail in Costa Rica.

The Dixie Chicks got themselves into a public relations nightmare by bashing the president, overseas, while America was in the initial stages of war. I think most of us would agree that this was a huge "no-no" on many levels. It was stupid business sense, alienating to much of their fan base and anti patriotic. I think the anti patriotic sentiment is what bothers us about ChiTown's example. For those of us who have served in the armed forces, the America bashing resonates even deeper.

Reading in between the lines, I first note that ChiTownGino was not referring to the gay USA-basher as the Ugly American; rather he was referring to his own reaction. In other words, both of the people on the tour who were loud and opinionated were Americans. I am not saying that ChiTownGino's response was inappropriate under the circumstances. But I have been in many circumstances where I have observed Americans overseas who tend to "stand out" from the rest of the crowd in a loud and noticeable manner. Perhaps that is part of our charm? Perhaps it is a carryover of our belief that we have a right to free speech wherever we go. Personally, I try to ratchet down my considerable obnoxious tendencies when I am overseas. I realize that I am in another country and the same laws don't exist. Also, I am an ambassador for my country and people are watching me. Lest I sound preachy or self righteous, I do recognize the hypocrisy in what I am writing. After all, the primary reason I am in Costa Rica is not to emulate Mother Theresa, but rather to Phuck ticas. Nevertheless, while I am sitting there with my young tica, I try and act as a gentleman. Of course, after several drinks, most bets are off.

Guys, this ain't about free speech! This is about manners, plain and simple.

The ugly American's behavior was rude. He negatively affected the enjoyment of the tour, by imposing the sound of his voice over that of the tour guide, by calling attention to himself and being a distraction and an impediment to the rights of others. As paid participants, these others on the tour had a right to certain expectations, not the least of which was to be able to listen to nature's sounds around them.

Many guys have laughed at the notion of any of us being gentlemen, implying that we have some sort of code in force. Well, perhaps we do. A gentleman, no matter how compelling or righteous his message, would keep it to himself simply to admit bird song and the sound of rushing water.

Call me the Emily Post of CRT, but I believe we all benefit by comporting ourselves with consideration for those around us.

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Pura Vulva! Wandering through the dark, I am El Ciego.

YO Ciego:

Well stated and precise to the point. Being polite and not boisterously bashing people or governments in public is the best policy expecially when in a froeign country.

You Horny, can't get enough macho gringo Slut you.

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Damn if I'm going to repeat this shit again. I need a drink.
I've been drinking vodka every day for 45 years and I have certainly never found it to be habit forming.

IRISH DRIFTER you and I are in agreement, here. What I was trying to say was that I couldn't understand how the rude guy could possibly think that kind of behaviour would be acceptable. I'm not a very eloquent writer, it seems.
Regardless, you and I are on the same channel, here.
Niko

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Asian women are still women.

El Ciego: that is exactly why I put in the he was openly gay. How can you try to describe someone and leave out the biggest part of there personality