www.CostaRicaTicas.com

I admit, I have trouble with the, "Life is what you make it" sentiment. People, environment, comforts, safety, freedom, available sex, sense of community, proximity to friends/family, DO affect your quality of life. If that were not the case, then prison life could be just as satisfying as any other lifestyle, and that's absurd.

Sure, take the good from any situation and try to ignore the rest. But why not live where there's LESS bigotry, hate, racism, stress, yahoo's, and constipated gringas if possible? Obviously there are trade-offs, but if these sociological studies are to believed, the trade-offs don't "cut it." People in consumer societies have it all, but are less happy.

Am I fortunate to have been born to parents in a plentiful country, allowing educational and employment opportunities? Yes. Do I have to remain in the U.S. and beat my head against a wall because pain feels good? No. Am I obligated to stay and try to right the wrongs and change minds? Hell no.

I had a friend who was fond of saying, "If you don't like life in the States, why don't you get the phuck out?" I have. I just wish like VB, Tman, and others, I could make it permanent, or at least long enough to really make an informed decision. Maybe someday.

The U.S. is a great place to visit....

Jazz

_________________
"Don't never trust a woman, till she's dead and deep....One day she'll say she loves you, next day she'll throw you on the street."

"...and if men didn't have this unquenchable desire to have sex with women, then they wouldn't have anything to do with women at all. I certainly wouldn't..."

Good exchange here.However I have one comment to make regarding Zippy's post. If you are measuring the degree of happiness of a Gringo in The U.S. a casino isn't the place to do it. Since almost everyone is losing money,they usually aren't in their best mood.

Good points all. I think any place becomes too small and limiting after a while. For me the jist of life is variety...in just about anything. The best food gets boring in time if you eat it every day. If we only get to know ONE person, this is also very limiting. If we only know one culture or country, our horizons are also very limited.

I was thinking during my 2 week stay stateside last month that it would be nice to spend PART of the year there. Of course, I would want to bring my Latina GF with me. But, the only things I miss from USA are some family and friends who continue to have meaning in my life...and some of the first world roads, golf courses and restaurants with service that we sometimes take for granted. Services in general are much better in the USA...though like Jazz brings up...the nasty edge of stress is more and more evident in many service industry folks back home...especially airline counters.

The biggest lack I feel back home is of intelligent, informed conversation. I find the masses in the USA very one dimensional...totally focused on "things" or careers, with very little knowledge or INTEREST in things outside of their little worlds and for sure the world at large. I go back to a time in the late 60s and 70s when people DEBATED issues such as Viet Nam, religion, ...the meaning of life...and had well thought out positions even if they differed from each other. Now it is hard to find a debate unless it is about sports, which stocks are hottest, or their latest upgrades to their homes and where the best deals are. I find myself yawning in the middle of most conversations of that nature. Now, obviously, our monger GFs are not usually good for intelligent conversation...which is for me why long term relations with them are out of the question. But...the kind of guys that travel to these parts I find to often be the most colorful and interesting of gringos. THe stories they have to tell tend to be real...and the daily new discoveries in these cultures spur people to share and exchange info and ideas. I think that is great...and why I participate on this forum.

It continues to amaze me what variety of people we have on this board and coming to the CRT annual bash. In general I would guess we are more open and honest with each other than we are with our lifelong family and friends back home. This is very telling...and a sad reality of where we come from.

For me...a large part of happiness (beyond the obvious huge benefit of good health) is to know and be known...in a relationship of mutual transparency, honesty, and trust. This brings meaning, and is hard to find...but doable when friends are chosen with care.

Just wondering about this. Take an America and put him in Costa Rica as a native (legally he can do everything a native can do), he has to work, he has 10 $$ in the bank, he has to pay rent, he has 2 K*ds and a wife, he has been psychologically programmed to think like an average Tico too and........... he remembers the USA and knows he can return at anytime.

So he has the magical relaxed and stress free life that we seem to magically think exists in CR (and other countries). You know, as opposed to America, where people are uptight, stressed out, and unhappy, he now can give a shit about showing up on time, honoring his word, or doing a good job on the job (this attitude allows him to be stress free, happy and less than uptight).

What's the chance he'll eventually want to go to America?

What I'm getting to is that we talk like it is heaven outside of the USA, however I don't really think so unless we leave the USA with a lot of money so we don't have to live the native's life. None of us would want to go to CR to live in a Tico's shoes. There aren't too many Americans (even those who know Spanish) marrying a Tica so he can dump life in the USA for the magical stress free life in CR so this is sort of an indicator of the "REAL" Costa Rica to me - it isn't what some make it out to be.

Just as we don't think life here is all that special, I doubt the average Tico thinks his CR is ever so special either. And, I doubt he thinks his fellow countrymen are as relaxed and carefree as we make them out to be.

If this were a Brazilian board, I'm thinking people on it would be making Brazil out to be heaven on earth as well, but I know A LOT!!!! of Brazilians (educated and not so educated) here in the Bay Area that can deal with Brazil for about 2 weeks and then they are dying to get the hell out of Brazil and back to the land of stress, unhappy and uptight people. Weird, isn't it?

I love CR, but only as an American with lots of cash to burn... don't drop me off in CR to live a Tico's life (even after my Spanish gets better!).

*

TMan writes:





This may be the best post I've seen on this board in the past two years. TMan nails it completely as to why we come to CR and the current quality of life in the U.S.

Too bad we don't still have a post of the month. This is certainly deserving of that honor. Thank you TMan for your thought provoking post.

El Lamero

_________________
69 isn't just a number, it's a way of life

D2864 writes:



But that is precisely the point. There is probably no where in the world that any of us would want to live if we had to live like those who live like the "natives." If you were fortunate enough to be born in this country or came at an early age, it is almost impossible to compare it to anyplace on earth. We truly have the chance to be anything we want to be. But if you are living at the poverty level here, life is hell and unlikely to get better. The U.S. has many problems, as does every other country, including Costa Rica.

If however you manage to be able to afford living in Costa Rica on a retirement income, or finding work that can be accomplished just as well down there as in a Madison Ave office building, then you've got the best of all possible situations. You most certainly can live cheaper in other places in the world but I'd be hard pressed to name any that offer the unique blend of Costa Rica with it's near perfect climate, the diversity of it's ecology, and oh yes, the availability of a wide selection of willing cohabitants.

So for those who have discovered the Pura Vida of CR; Vegas Bob, TMan, Bilko and many others......the rest of us are envious.

El Lamero

_________________
69 isn't just a number, it's a way of life

The only advantage I see with living outside the USA is the availibility of young hot chicas. I see no other advantage at all. I want to live in CR, but only for the availability of chicas. If the availability of women, young women, were just as good here in the USA, I'd not ever consider living in CR. I'd not even have the desire to visit, but maybe once since there are better beaches available in places closer to the USA (the rain forest doesn't really excite me).

I have to agree, Tman's post is a good one though a bit broad in scope.

*

If you see no advantage to living outside the States with dollars, other than availability to chicas, then you should stay right where you are - maybe. But if the murder rate, politics, religious extremists, puritanical dogma, cost of living, frenzied consumerism, taxes, and erosion of personal freedoms bothers you, then visiting rather than living in the U.S. might be preferable. Foreigners who move here just may see the country through rose-colored glasses.

It's not simply a question of "implanting" chicas into the States, and then everything is all better. First, that ain't going to happen. Second, the gringa mindset runs deep, affecting men's domestic, social, financial and sex lives profoundly. The real question is, what if we had a similar culture here to that of our favorite countries? The chicas come along with the culture, one that doesn't over-politicize sex, religion, gambling, and truly affords personal freedoms, rather than paying lip service only. Now you're talkin'! A "culture transplant" for the red, white, and blue."

Where do I sign up?

_________________
"Don't never trust a woman, till she's dead and deep....One day she'll say she loves you, next day she'll throw you on the street."

"...and if men didn't have this unquenchable desire to have sex with women, then they wouldn't have anything to do with women at all. I certainly wouldn't..."

Looks like the Gringa's 11th commandment in the USA ! I sure wouldn't waste time debating this !

I think this is true of both directions as the grass is always greener effect. I have always felt more freedom in many Latin countries than my own. This maybe do to many factors.

1. I simply don't know all the laws & rules yet.
2. I have money compared to most natives of this country so maybe the rules get bent without my total knowledge.
3. I am living life with wreak less abandon with my Pinhead up Pretty Latinas skirts .
4. They simply don't have anyone to enforce all their ways on you.
5. Maybe it is truly a more live & let live society & is more open over all .

One thing you really need to do is compare apples to apples. No question the women put out easier for us overall but try & open a business there like you may have done in the USA & you will get a taste of what is real.
Also many of us live lighter in these other countries as we get our feet wet. This is more freedom in itself. Try living in a nice home out in the country & then try to protect it. Bet you don't leave the doors unlocked like some of my neighbors do here. The USA is a BIG country & many places are very different than others so YMMV but the one constant is Gringas are FAT & BITCHY NO MATTER WHAT WALMART YOU ARE IN .

If you really think the core of women is so different why are we not dating & having success with the wealthier Latinas of these countries. My guess is most of us go where the going is easy(my little Pinhead does) so we are fooling around with the more destitute side of town. When women are not pressed into service lets be honest the service is mostly non existent.

I am not complaining & happy it is just like it is . We better keep them hungry or they will stop being SNAPPERS !

Wow now this could get us really thinking !! My guess is if this was true we would not be so organized which in turn has taken away some of our freedoms & created STRESS. But you could also make a case that we would have just phucked around all our lives & not been organized enough to defeat Nazi Germany & we would be under their control instead of the BIG BROTHER WE HAVE NOW . Maybe it is all the same ?? I think I will take the good with the bad like it is, it seems to work for me. Think where we would all be if the USA did not have this economy behind us. We would be just another poor Latino & even though many seem happy I rather have our options & I believe most of them would also. Nothing is really FREE it seems but they sure advertise like it is ! I choose MOBILITY. http://www.thescooterstore.com/

_________________
"Run silent, run deep"
Spunk glazed Chicas are the building blocks of the universe!

Interesting and thoughtful conversation...two quick points l'd like to make:

1. Cultural differences - in my travels to other places, I've seen a great deal of difference in attitudes between Americans and foreigners - there is a sense of warmth and friendliness that often is lacking here in the USA. I'm surprised at the level of happiness among the poor population of many countries, and I think that happiness is actually due in part to a lack of choices; they're forced to remain in strong family bonds, in the same geographical area, which feeds them at a deep level. In contrast, I'm 1000 miles away from my closest relative and 3000 miles from my immediate family. That has an effect.

2. The paradise of foreign adventure is made available by the 'economies of scale' - in countries with poorer economies, we instantly become the wealthy class, and as we all know, the rules are bent or non-existent for the wealthy; we can lead a privileged existence and take advantage of those 'pressed into service'. BTW, how many of you have scored with rich Ticas, Brazilieras, Paisas, Thais, hmmn? Probably never.

I'll never forget one incident in Rishikesh...I get into a put-put cab seating 5 people - I'm the 5th person in the cab - teh cabbie sees me and kicks the other four out, because he caters to the wealthy American. It didn't occur to me what just occurred till the trip ended. That's the kind of power an American can have abroad, and it is based solely on our wealth. And that feeds into a possible mythlike and myopic attitude of the foreign land.

That doesn't seem to square with the facts, ie., multitudes of middle-class providers working the States and Europe. The worst part is, they're often not very good, especially in the U.S.



Zip, what other choice do we really have, unless we're retired or independently wealthy?

I certainly would not argue that we're a wealthy nation and it's damn hard to imagine life any differently. How we got here isn't pretty, but that's another discussion. However, this thread originated from a study by the New Economics Foundation, suggesting people are happier in smaller, less developed (poorer) countries. Would WE be happier living a third-world life like third-worlders, after growing up in the States? Of course not, but that's not the issue.

For me it's obvious. If I didn't have family and didn't need to continue working, I'd be out of the States faster than speeding bullet. For whatever reason, I find the "social climate" of other countries to be more in line with my tastes, but I understand that it is a personal decision.

_________________
"Don't never trust a woman, till she's dead and deep....One day she'll say she loves you, next day she'll throw you on the street."

"...and if men didn't have this unquenchable desire to have sex with women, then they wouldn't have anything to do with women at all. I certainly wouldn't..."

Two points...

First, it is my observation that the poor in third world countries are "happier" than the poor in First world ones like the USA. I'm sure much of this could be explained that it is harder to be poor when all around you the media and evidence in the street is that you are nobody...and looked down upon in a huge way. Thus the inner city ghetto mentalities and lots of gun crime etc. Unfortunately, we are exporting this part of our culture as well to these third world countries. In these countries, partially thanks to "the church", the poor continue to feel "blessed"...closer to God because of their humility. Whether true or imagined...not a bad fantasy or reality to have if you have no other choices. One could argue that the US violence all around is based on a lack of faith and morals on the part of the poor...AND the rich. Of course, thats a deep subject for another time.

Second, while some do-gooders will feel bad about being treated "special" as an American in foreign countries...I dont think it is a bad thing. And I in turn treat locals "special" because I AM a foreigner. Small example...taxis in Panama City are CHEAP...$1-2 per ride most anywhere in the city. Actually, its officially like $1.25 and $2.50. I almost always leave the change or pay them an extra buck for their service...much to the chagrine of my GF. Why? Because I dont understand with these gas prices how they can afford to do this...and in my small way I would like to contibute to them providing better/safer vehicles to ferry me in. Also, I help us Americans become PREFERRED customers here because we dont pinch pennies. Most every week when hailing a taxi, they obviously stop for me before the locals...and this comes in handy in the middle of a rain storm. They do this because they have experienced that we dont mind paying a little extra for the service. And of course, because we are all perceived to be rich...this preference plays out on most levels of goods and services. Its the old adage that "its better to be a big fish in a small pond, than a small fish in a big pond"...

Signed,
Happy to be living in LatAm

Zippy - really good post! You hit the ball out of the park!

Philo - good one as well... and btw, I'm also 3000 miles from any family which is good and bad.

Jazz - I live near SF and it really is like paradise so I don't really need Latin America. I'm living a comfortable existance - the religious extremists don't bother me, I can comfortably afford the cost of living, I buy mostly what I need vs. what I want so I ignore frenzied consumerism, for the most part the taxes I pay end up serving the people rather than in the personal bank accounts of corrupt politicians (like in Latin America) so whoopie though I do feel I pay enough taxes, I don't really feel any major personal freedom restrictions (SF area is very liberal - MPs operate in Oakland, SF and Berkeley), the murder rate here is next to nothing (Concord, California) so all I'm missing is a huge number of uneducated, poor and desperate Latinas (I like variety) who are willing to make it with a 43 year old so take the easy women out of CR and I'll pass on CR.... off to Argentina, Brazil, Thialand or the Phillipines instead.

If I talk negative about America without acknowledging the positives, I feel I'm stabbing her in the back. I mean, after all the positives in America are in fact what has enabled a move to CR so to stab her after all she has done for me doesn't feel fair. I realize America isn't perfect, but she isn't so bad either.

*

D2 - My sister has lived in the Bay area for 25 years and I've visited often. California is arguably the best state in the nation for a variety of reasons, and San Fran is arguably the best city in California. That means your perspective is bound to be "skewed," but that's not a bad thing! More power to you! It's just that if I were to move from Miami, I wouldn't choose California. I would look south.

As far as stabbing "her," that suggests America can't take it. No country is perfect, and for some folks, America just may be the right choice. But with traveling, one quickly learns the whole world doesn't share that view, as is sometimes suggested. And while the U.S. has given all of us opportunity, that doesn't exempt it from criticism, or explain how it can be in the dark ages on so many moral issues, including the one this board is dedicated to; SEX! Life is short, so it comes down to how you want to spend your time and money. Personally, spending time and money these last 3 months in Colombia and Brazil has been orgasmic.

Tman - I hear ya on the humility thing. People here couldn't be nicer.

_________________
"Don't never trust a woman, till she's dead and deep....One day she'll say she loves you, next day she'll throw you on the street."

"...and if men didn't have this unquenchable desire to have sex with women, then they wouldn't have anything to do with women at all. I certainly wouldn't..."

Fun exchange of thoughts here thanks too all .

Philo,

Any of us that have spent much time at all can sense the reality of their overall state of warmth, happiness & contentment. This has always blown me away how can this be??? I am not a very jealous person at all but sometimes I envy how they have so much fun with so little. They seem to get a natural high from just a family picnic . Reminds me of when I was a Ch*ld. What is the true reason or force behind this? How many of them are on anti-depressants or anti-anxiety or anti-psychotic "miracles of modern science" medicines ??? Maybe the Doctors & Pharmaceutical companies should study these "under privileged poor people" or is it a phenomenon & learn to bottle what they seem to have going on inside !

I always assumed where there is less stress there is more happiness. Where there is love there is contentment & less stress. Maybe it is lack of choices & they are forced to remain in strong family bonds? It just seems like we have overload of everything in the USA & maybe the human mind was not designed for this much Bullshitt . So simple is happy?

PS: Vegas Bob Yes VB this is probably a poor place to study happiness but I was losing my ass & still laughing my ass off. Maybe it pays to have a pointed head like mine after all !

_________________
"Run silent, run deep"
Spunk glazed Chicas are the building blocks of the universe!