www.CostaRicaTicas.com

Has the popularity of CR ruined the mongering scene with demand driven poosie price inflation? I know that others on the board are careful with too much talk about other destinations.

Or it doesn't matter because there are a limited percentage of mongers in the world?

Has the demand helped by bringing more venues/alternatives/chica choices to the scene for our mongering pleasure?

Back in the day were GFE's more common than today?

I write this in light of visiting other "less spoiled" destinations in central and south america. Is it good for us to talk up the pros and less of the cons? Should we be more tight-lipped about our destination? OTOH, I never would have found CR mongering if it weren't for Don Gordo's website and the connection to CRT. So, I for one am glad for the forums.

I'd really like to get the take from those more seasoned and wiser (maybe the ones who live in CR). I am going to skip a poll since few pay attention to them anyways... just looking for some insightful feedback. Thanks.

I'm going to have to go with the view that CR is a victim of its own popularity.

True in some ways the popularity has had a beneficial effect in some respects in terms increased number of venues and chicas. The traditional places like the BM and KL have more chicas than ever. Quality in terms of looks is both up AND down (meaning you get more 10's but you also get more chicas who have no business being in this business but are in it anyway).

OTOH, the negatives go beyond simple "demand driven poosie price inflation". It impacts quality of service. Having more 10's at the BM is largely meaningless if nearly all of those "10's" are mercenary Colombianas. I'll take a nice GFE-quality tica or nica "7" anyday. The problem is, at least at a place like the BM, more and more of even the 6's-8's have the seeming attitude that "I can easily get any guy to (over)-pay for my pu*sy so why should I make much effort at it". This is where RBC and others will jump in that there are other places than the BM and that is definitely true. The trouble is you now have a choice of either having to look for that needle in the haystack at the BM or going farther afield and going from door to door looking for that occasional diamond in the rough at one of the lesser known tico places. Either way requires a lot of work. Back in the day I think GFE's were more common. Now increasingly, no matter where you go I think its more of just a business.

Does it matter because there are a limited percentage of mongers in the world? It may be limited but that percentage is going up. The internet and the media have greatly raised awareness of international mongering among the general public. Amongst a certain segment of that population this has caused a puritanical backlash against our hobby that seriously threatens it as pressure is put on foreign governments to crackdown on sex tourism.

But in many ways a more serious challenge to the future of our hobby is presented by another segment more sympathetic to what we do. Disatisfaction with commercial and noncommercial sexual relations in the US, combined with rising disposible income on the part of aging babyboomers and greater international tourism options in general have led more and more guys to look overseas.

One only has to look at the gringo-chica ration at the BM. Despite increased numbers of chicas, that ratio hasn't really changed that much or perhaps has gotten a little worse. The reason there are more chicas is because there are more guys. The two go hand in hand and therefore I don't see much advantage in it. In fact, as I said before, because there are so many "cold cien" colombianas and delusional gorditas the ratio of truly worthwhile chicas to discerning guys may be even worse still.

The guys that come here and learn how to participate in our hobby in a responsible way add to the demand competition and to certain extent add to the inflationary pressures at the same time that rising supply keep them down. I'm far more concerned about all the guys who flood the Gulch each year with only a vague notion about what its all about and who either pay the ridiculous cien rates for substandard service (thereby raising expectations on the part of all the girls) or behave badly in other ways (witness the Prez's perceived need to enforce a dress code to keep loud and obnoxious monger guests in check). So far the problem caused by these guys is largely confined to the Gulch and primarily the BM but its only a matter of time before they go further afield. And even if they don't why should a really good looking girl work for very long at a place like Oasis when she can go to work at a place like NF, ZB and make much more or, even better, command ridiculous prices at the BM?

It should also be pointed out that changes to CR caused by newfound popularity among gringos is not confined to the sex market. Beautiful beaches are being overdeveloped and reshaped in the image of more plastic destinations like Cancun. Whatever happened to real ecotourism as habitat is cutdown to make room for more and more hotels and noisy tourists stumble down forest trails? Gringo expats bid up property prices to the point that most ticos can no longer afford the nicest places in their own country (or the nicest chicas). Couple that with the decline in the economy caused by high oil prices, intransigent unions and the inevitable crumbling of the social safety net and crime is quite expectedly on the rise, particularly crimes against tourists, not just in the Gulch but at places like MA and everywhere else.

Is it good for us to talk up the pros and less of the cons? Should we be more tight-lipped about our destination? I have always thought we should speak honestly about whereever we're talking about. Of course we should deal honestly about the cons and if that dissuades a few more guys from coming here so much the better. That question to me is a no-brainer. The second question is much tougher. Like you I recognize that you have to be willing to give if you expect to get. I discovered CR long before I heard of Don Gordo, CRS or CRT even existed, but I learned how to experience CR more intelligently thanks to sites such as these. MY other problem, lets face it, is that I can't keep my mouth shut anyway and would probably always end up sharing what I know even if part of me realized I was feeding the frenzy.

So the word is out on CR and it is no longer the paradise it was, where should we go next and should we make the same mistake about telling others about it? I think the word is already out on all the best places anyway, be it Rio or Bangkok or someplace else. These places are well-rounded tourist destinations in their own rights and already draw lots of visitors for a variety of reasons including mongering. The next "unspoiled" places are more likely to be much further off the usual tourist trail and it will take a while before the words get out on them and the newbies find their way to them. Our options are really only whether to try and keep those places to ourselves or perhaps our closest monger buddies or, failing that, at least staying ahead of the tourist curve and moving on to the next place when these new places get too crowded.

Consider some of the alternatives. Where else are you going to go in CA? Panama supposedly has some nice looking ladies but is even more expensive than CR. Nicaragua? It may be cheaper there than in CR but all the best P4P nicas already travel to CR. El Salvador has some promise and reportedly boasts some lovely ladies for cheap. The people there are supposed to be very friendly to foreigners. Of course they are because they don't get to see many foreign visitors. Wait until they start getting as many tourists as CR and see what sort of attitudes they have. And if you're like me, seeking somethings to do beyond pure mongering, what else is there to see and do in some of these countries?

RHM;
Not sure what you are asking about here. As you know, us locals never pay what a visiting monger pays. Most of the girls know who is local and who is not. I mean after all, we'd go broke paying what you guys pay. Also, a lot of the chicas are more comfortable with weekly or bi-weekly sessions in my apartment. They know what to expect and what amount you pay for repeat sessions.
Not sure if this helps but I tried.
LVSteve

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Just an old horney, fat gambler.

Of course, LVSteve is right. Its bound to be different for a local. I may be more "seasoned" than some others here but that doesn't make me "wiser".

Prolijo,

I am so glad to see you posting again. I was worried that something may have happened to you. I enjoy reading your postings and you have helped me more than you know over the years.

I think that it is the popularity thing for Costa Rica. I have to admit though that the other board was what kept me going back at the beginning and the more popular this board becomes, the more mongerers will be trained and introduced to CR. Especially since this board is about CR only. Except for the one section.

Have a Great Day,

Dave

I am only a two and a half year vet but during that time there has been some increase in the BM and Key Largo but the rest of the scene which includes 50 or more places I know of many with set prices have seen no change if you convert to dollar prices. Basicly increases are just to offset the decline in value of the colone.Costa Rica offers as good a value as any outher places I have visited with a slight edge to outhers in some areas and to CR in outhers. Only places I see with a major edge price wise and GFE wise would be the far East bsed on reports as I have yet to go there and most say less than two weeks travel costs cancel the edge cost wise.rbc100

_________________
In Search of Fine Kittens,
Please... Bring back the Muff

YO Ye Good Ole Days:

Ditto to most of Prolijo and LVSteve's commentary. Old Circus has basically burned out on CR but that is just my personal view although I still enjoy being in country. My amigos that live there have found the things in their lifestyle that enhances their enjoyment and satisfaction with the ever changing chicas and CR society. As for a monger that is an occasional visitor......it certainly remains a viable option in one's sexual gratification. Remember, if you only have a few trips under your belt or if you are completely new to the scene....then CR is your world to discover.

Being a CRT member is a real advantage but it also makes one think he is even more seasoned that in reality because of the continuous bombarding of material available on this site. Then there are the poor souls such as myself that can't ever seem to get laid in the land of OZ. Hell, best not listen to me......I'm an old phucked up individual anyway. Pitiful is as pitiful does I guess.

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Damn if I'm going to repeat this shit again. I need a drink.
I've been drinking vodka every day for 45 years and I have certainly never found it to be habit forming.

At only a year-and-a-half's worth of experience (with less than a year of actual mongering) under my belt, I'm hardly the vet that these other gentlemen are, but I prefer to see it as the glass being half full. I mean - look at the bright side: less than seven hours air travel from most U.S. cities, reasonably-priced and generally nice accommodations, great weather (at least in the central valley) throughout the year, great natural beauty (outside of San Jose), comparatively safe (both crime and STD-wise), gringo-friendly, and access to all kinds of exotic young women at a price that won't break the bank. What's not to like???

Well for me - the preponderance of diesel-powered vehicles, the fact that many domestic dogs are abandoned and left to fend for themselves on the street, and the tendency to take advantage of those same gringos they're so outwardly friendly towards whenever and wherever possible. But then, we're exploiting them as well, so that's to be expected.

And the place is hardly overrun with gringos - in fact, outside of the Del Rey, Sportsmen's, Zona Blue, and possibly New Fantasy and Idem (and maybe some of the high-end strip clubs that I have never visited before) the clientele for nearly every venue is still primarily Tico. Nevertheless, I would not like to see "the news" about CR get out any more than it already has at this point. So please utilize discretion concerning who you tell about this paradise we know as CR.

I would have to say that CR was great when it was a destination that few knew about and alot of folks were just downright afraid to go. I think some of the mystery is gone, but not all of it. Back in the day (85-93), the only gals in the KL were Ticas and the DL did not exist in its present state.

You really felt like you were walking a bit on the wild side if you were hanging out the the end of the bar in the KL, especally since there tended to be more European than Americans hanging out. It was really more of a novelty to be one of a couple gringos hanging out in the bar and the guys at the bar seemed to have more of an adventerous spirit. Some of the edisodes I remember could have been straight out of that Warren Zevon song, "Lawyers, Guns and Money". Now a lot of times it almost seems like a lot of the guys you meet are on some sort of extended Spring Break weekend junket or something.

I believe the going rate at the time, at least the rate the girls asked for was 40 or 50 bucks. CR wasn't as dangerous back then, probably because the drug scene wasn't so developed. Anyway, that is the way it always goes; I remember sitting in my favorite bar in El Salvador in 92 when a tour group of geriatric Americans waddled through the door; I realized it was time to move on down the road. Of course, I don't live in CR, but have been there about 20 or 25 times or so.

As always; that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Timbones,

Those were the days! I echo all that & really see things as good or better now than ever. Sure more old gringos around but it just has expanded the market. I took a lot of pictures of many of the Latinas all along so it is not just from memory that I draw my conclusions. I can actually say the quality is not only better but much broader (not meaning GORDA here). The biggest difference in change has come from attitude of some Latinas because of dumb guys not understanding or taking the time to understand market conditions that really exists. The way I get around most of this is simply know my way around the culture better & speak the language better. This combination is a huge benefit. I don't fool around with pros & this helps a lot.

This is how you can get it cheaper & with more zest. The trick too this to me has always been getting someone you barely know to really relax & feel comfortable with you in a very short time. One still needs to try to get inside their little head & push the right buttons to get peak performance. I have heard this many times from a Chica. I help them negotiate a deal with another decent fairly young guy that is very nice all the way around.. He looks better than me I feel but comes across somewhat akward or out of it. The Latina says I rather go with you as I feel your are a very good person. I may mention that he will probably pay you a little more etc, & she counters with it is not all that important let’s go. So some are different like we are they have those certain overall criteria that needs to be met for them but the biggest is money.

In comparing my old photos compared to now I like my new ones better & I am 20 years older now than then. Are these P4P Chicas ever really real?? NO!! Never have been & never will but they do make nice temporary pets just like I do to them but they get $$.

You felt like more of a foreigner back then than now. Some of my best friends were from Europe at that time & not a lot of Gringos. It was nice being a real stranger as many Ticos were very curious at that time & some still are today but we are common place now. It was the same old story with mainly Ticas back then. Not many Nicas & no Colombianas then. Latina had an early pregnancy out of wed lock & needs to feed the family. They had the usual stretch marks & signs of a tough life. Think it is easier for me to find fresh ones now than then because so many new ones come out & give this line of work a try. I feel over all it is cheaper & better now knowing what I know plus more flavors.

Women back then seemed to service more Ticos than they do today. I see more college part timers now than then. It could be dangerous back years ago but worse now. The only way to go in & out of Key Largo was through the gate that faces the Holiday Inn hotel. It was darker then & not lit up as well. All the cabs waited right there making runs for couples to the love motels. Many guys that were drunk were robbed before they got into the taxi or made it across the street. Many I heard of were put in a choke hold why another guy cleaned out his pockets. Drugs were not on the scene at that time that I ever heard about.

Happy Days was just down the street walking past the Iron fence of KL toward the Morazon Hotel. Nashville South was also very popular but never for me. KL was the high dollar place compared to the rest it seemed back then. Asking price was around 40-50. Some week day nights were not that crowded compared to now.

I think we make the time we have for the most part where ever we go. The new wears off & so many start to see the negative light of it all over time. I have reached a steady state of being with it all & happy I don’t have to travel to some of the other countries to try their women since so many nationalities go to CR. Most Gringos that I know that live in CR are more upset than me about the influx of so many foreigners. Many live on a fixed income & chose CR to retire in & this has made their $ less valuable I believe.

RHM,
Most men from what little I base things off of are not wired like most of us at all. Many have litte desire for women for many reasons. Many I know see women as not worth the time, trouble, exspense & pain. Alot of guys can barley take care of themself let a lone a nagging wife or girl friend. They have more money & freedom without them & love their other hobbies more than the inconsistancies a woman has to offer. These men will never travel into the obiss & unknown like we do. They live in a simple comfort zone they understand. Closet dwellers! So in my opinion we are a limited breed.

Many other men Are happy with one marriage & give up on the seas of possibilities of finding some fulfillment in excitement wiith some strange. A smaller percent I feel are truly in love & never see anything else as good as what they have & are truly content. We are the minority in this world I feel with high sex drives or the truly poisoned ones that are never content with what we have or have conquered.

Many men do not realize how the P4P scene really evolved in CR. I watched it struggle to evolve to where it is today. At one time some really bad management took over KL & they tried to strong arm their way with the scene. We owe a lot to strong guys like BIG JOHN & places like Idems along with the free spirit of the Latina that kept this from being dominated by these tactics.

To me KL started to be like the strip clubs like Josephines, Olympus (now Lipstick), Pure Plantino & Hollywoods. It started taking on the clip joint mentality where the Latinas where educated on how to rip a guy off for as much as she could doing as little as possible. This became much better after HDR let the Latinas operate on their own free will & just make money off the rooms, drinks & guest charges etc. The net effect of this was a Tica (non pro type) could run in & find a quick trick with a guy & still remain basically anonymous much easier than being a full time type of employee. Many Latinas don't want their family to know their little secret but this changes if they turn PRO!

This in turn brought out more of the type of Latinas I look for (girl next door type). These are non hardened women but just free lance amateurs. Of course there are many more full time hard types than any other but many of the type I look for would never have come out to play if the working conditions were not right for them. Most of the ones that I tend to go with tell me they have never & would never work in a MP. They want some control over who they go with & not have to go with whom ever walks in the door. Of course enough money tends to change their mind to a point. YMMV

The Sportsmen’s Lodge is one of the newest additions to the scene using the internet to its advantage very well. This concept goes along with what works there as it becomes more established. It is along the same principles that have proven itself over the long run & run by class people that offer men a good overall value with honesty.

This is just part of my take on it all but very happy to see the overall picture more like a known pickup bar that ladies of the night are very prevalent. One thing is a given too me. These poor young Latinas are not going to stop phucking around getting pregnant early in life & putting themselves behind the 8 ball. This plus the relative ease of extracting our money in short order with something they really don't have such a big stigma about doing will continue to grow this market to no end that I can see.

_________________
"Run silent, run deep"
Spunk glazed Chicas are the building blocks of the universe!

Zippy,
Thanks for the great post.

Things are changing....some for the better, and some for the worse. But, IMHO, we must play the hand we're dealt, and cross the bridge(s) of change when we come to them. But, for now, I'll just take it day by day, and trip by trip! Again, great post.
Mucho Gusto

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You ALWAYS have an option ....... "NEXT" !!!

Costa Rica SUCKS. It just sucks a little less than most ANY other place on earth.

A few more thoughts:

GR, you're absolutely right, although you've had extensive experience during that year and a half, thats still far too little time to get a good perspective on how things have changed. What seemed so great about CR that drew you there a year and a half ago is bound to not have changed that much. All those things you mentioned are what drew most of us to CR and the glass IS half full. But that is really not the question. Its not about what CR is like at this moment in time or even over the past year (that can be viewed subjectively in different ways), but in how it is CHANGING. Is the glass filling up or is it emptying out? That is also somewhat subjective as it is certainly getting better in some respects and worse in others. But how it is changing in balance can only really be seen clearly from the perspective of time.

You mention dogs and smog as 2 of the biggest negatives, but to me the biggest negative is the attitudes of the natives to us foreigners, which you also alluded to. That "tendency to take advantage of those same gringos they're so outwardly friendly towards" may have always been there to some degree or another but it is much more apparent now. This is reflected in a number of ways - the ridiculous asking prices and declining service of the HDR/BM chicas and the greater targeting of gringos in the Gulch and elsewhere.

Part of this change in attitudes of ticos towards gringos and in some veteran gringo CR travelers towards CR may be a case of familiarity breeds contempt. For the ticos part they see more and more gringos with their condescending and arrogant club-med mentality ("get me a drink Pablo") rather than the more generally more culturally sensitive experience of the earlier CR arrivals who were probably in general more international travel savvy. And for us old gringos part we have had more time to discern the thorns on the rose or perhaps to become jaded by the whole experience.

I also find it amusing, though not so surprising that GR wouldn't like to see "the news" about CR get out any more than it already has at this point even though he is one of those who probably would never have known about CR himself if someone before him hadn't let out the "news". That's not at all unusual. Most people always want to close the gate after themselves. GR and RBC et al correctly point out that beyond the usual gringo trail, there are many good venues that are still primarily tico. But the news is getting out on them too. Tthats RBC's big shtick though many of us, myself and GR included are also guilty of spreading the word. Remember when the SL was just a "secret" among CRT'ers? As the word on these other places gets out it remains to be seen how many of the currently newbie mongers will venture forth beyond the familiar "safety" of the HDR/BM and places like it. Will the rising crime rate around the Gulch scare guys away from CR altogether or will it make these places seem less foreboding by comparison?

TimBones is at the other end of the continuum than GR. He actually preferred CR when it was more of an unknown backwater. I can appreciate from where he is coming from. He has more the spirit of an intrepid pioneer and will probably always want to be somewhere out ahead of the throngs experiencing places that few other people know about. I'm not sure how much his price quotes support his argument. $50 in 1985 is equal to about almost $95 in today's dollars, so if the asking price has gone up it hasn't really gone up that much. RBC is correct from his much shorter time frame that most price increases just parallel inlfation and currency exchange rate changes. Some of Tim's other arguments are definitely valid. SJ is much more dangerous now than it was and you don't have to go back to the late-80's early 90's to see that. However, as he also alluded to much if not most of that has little to do with the huge influx of gringos as it does to other changes that have been going on in tico society.

Zippy's post is much more difficult to respond too or at least my reply would be much more nuanced. I'm taking a much more middle ground than either Tim or GR. I'll readily admit that in sum things have gotten better ... up to a point. Part of me misses that fringes of civilization feel that was already well on the wane when I arrived in the late 90's. I also like to see myself as a pioneer and an intrepid explorer on the cutting edge. I know that's largely a self-delusion compared to guy's like Zippy and Tim. However, I agree with GR that the increase in quality and selection brought about by the corresponding influx of guys has been mostly beneficial, including attracting in quality P4P chicas from neighboring countries. MY POINT IS at what point is that benefit acheived and the marginal benefit starts to become a net loss? Okay the chicas are here and coming. Will more and more guys hearing about CR and deciding to take the plunge themselves bring any further benefit or draw more chicas than there already are or will this influx of newbie mongers (increasingly its a different type of monger that arrives today) just continue to worsen the market for those of us who have gone before? I think CR has already peaked and become "largely" a market for beginners.

The challenges for us are twofold. First, we should try as much as possible not to feed the frenzy any more than it already is. This is why I try to only make my map available to experienced whorticulturists or at least guys who have shown through board membership and/or participation that they plan to become mongers one way or the other anyway. I don't want to create new mongers but I do want to see those that do plan on mongering at least educate themselves and conduct themselves as whorticulturists as much as possible. Secondly, serious whorticulturists should try to seek out the "real" CR that still exists as much as possible. This what relative "beginners" like RBC and others have done and I think it is to be commended. CR is "largely" becoming a beginners market, at least for those that stay in the Gulch, but it doesn't HAVE to be.

Zippy wrote:



Not quite sure what era you are referring to exactly but I certainly did not find the same scene in the early 90's. Myself and my wingman frequently walked, alone or together at all hours of the night or very early morning, from Key Largo, Happy Days or the old NY bar to the Presidente without any fear of being mugged or accosted in any manner. Some areas of San Jose were rough at night and you had to be very careful. Many times in those days we walked, always at least 2, at night from the Park Hotel to the Presidente. The area around Parque Central was somewhere you had to be careful of at night but overall the chances of getting into a bad situation were no where near as high as they are today.

_________________
Pura Vida
Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four
essential food groups:
alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat.
Alex Levine

Prolijo,

I agree that changing attitudes are my biggest concern off all. What tends to change these attitudes too me more than anything else is excess money for the chicas to get in trouble with consuming mind altering substances. This just turns people into trash overtime & ruins their natural beauty & wonderful smiles. Latinas have one big advantage to keep it together over many Gringos. This is the strong bond & sense of belonging to loving warm families that stay very functional.

When I think of a P4P type in the USA I see a very phucked up trashed out low life gringa on drugs with a shit for brains attitude. In Central America I find the exact opposite of this most the time. I suppose the percentage of drug abuse will continue to rise as some can now afford this but I still see so many that have no interest thank God.

Now I see Latinas walking down the street near HDR smoking a joint & this I never saw in the early years. Even though this has proven not to be that terrible of substance it is the acceptance of this that starts to change attitudes that spiral out of control. Typical stupid man with no limits on any control. If a little feels good a lot must be better??

Like MG points out we have the hand that is dealt to us it is up to us to learn how to play this hand to get out of it what we are looking for. The tools are all there to be used at anytime past or present. Up to us the find them & enjoy the right ones. They will always be there.

Irish,

You had a wingman & the guys that got robbed back then did not & were drunk. It is more common now to have problems but it did happen to a lessor extent back then also. I never have had any problems (knock on wood) but I really make myself very low profile & do not get drunk & never leave my back to anyone. Either I am very lucky in my life since all the different times I have had exposer to the elements or the bad guys find easier targets or both.

PS: The smell of money will always bring the Pretty little Spanish Flies to the shit that awaits them in the gulch. It is up to us to try & keep it as clean as possible.

_________________
"Run silent, run deep"
Spunk glazed Chicas are the building blocks of the universe!