www.CostaRicaTicas.com

Diego, I don't want to burst your bubble but my question to you is this. Was she smiling because she was really interested or was it something else? Perhaps she was smiling simply because she was flattered that she knew you (or any guy) was interested in her, but had no intention or real interest in ever letting you really act on it? Or worse, was she smiling because she was amused that some dirty old man was unobtrusively hitting on her? I don't know how old you are, but anyone much out of their mid-20's is old to most gringa 17 year-olds.

Here is where you and Rolex and King's statements have some real merit. If you're going to play the numbers game, while it is very important to have developed your game and to figure out how to fill your "pipeline", the real key is to know how to maximize your payout ratio so you don't waste too much of your time. Having an effective game is part of it. Knowing when to cut your losses is another. Having a full "pipeline" is important, but having it filled with the right higher probability candidates is even more important. 15% of young women that would CONSIDER an affair with an older man is a very small percentage to begin with. At least half that 15% or more are going to be 5's or less, which goes a long ways to explaining why they would even consider such a relationship. How many would actually have such an affair and how many would have it with you? What do they mean when they think older? Sure, some 22 year-olds MIGHT consider having an affair with a guy as old as his late thirties, many would consider an affair with an even older fit and elegant, graying at the temples type of sugar daddy, but how many would really consider an affair with a 40+ slightly out of shape guy like most of us? Add in how much larger a percentage of older guys would not only consider but jump at the chance to have an affair with a young woman and the fact that those young women are also pursued by guys in their own age bracket and finding that one young woman that you might score with is like looking for a needle in haystack.

Where various dating strategies offer the real help is in giving you tips on how to cut down those odds as much as possible, by knowing where to look, how to spot them, how to read the initial signals to determine whether potential really exists, etc. and then having the game to be able to improve your odds stil further once you've got the BEST candidates in your "pipeline". It still comes down very much to a numbers game that may or may not be worth your time, but at least you've made most efficient use of your time and efforts.

Personally, I think a far easier way of improving your odds and maximizing the effectivenes of both your time and money is to simply go to CR, where a) culturally May-December romances are FAR more common and socially accepted b) your gringo values viz a viz how we treat our women make us more appealling than most of the competition and c) your relative affluence certainly doesn't hurt.

While I agree it would be a sad day to see Britney let herself go, do you really think that this is something that is restricted to gringas? I've seen plenty of middleaged latinas, who have done the same thing. There's something about that diet of rice and beans that has a very unfortunate effect on many a latina's figure.

Joltin Joe,

You really hit on a lot of the things I've experienced.

I'm attracted physically to young gringas. While it may be possible to use certain techniques to "score" with such girls. It will still involve a ton of effort and even then will most likely not ever amount to more than a physical fling.

Women closer to my age are probably better prospects both in terms of the likelihood of success of "scoring" but also in the possibility of forming a relationship based upon more than just sex. The problem as you stated is that I just don't find many of those older women to be that attractive. Maybe the fact that I can get young hotties in CR has forever spoiled me.

First of all, as goal suggested, there comes a point in every woman's life where she decides to let herself go and/or loses the battle of keeping herself up. This is more of a problem in this country at all age levels given the epidemic of obesity and fast food. Secondly, most of the attractive and reasonably psychologically balanced older women are happily married. What's leftover are often embittered divorcees, fat wrinkled and sagging blobs or real-head cases who were either never married or whose husbands divorced them for good reason. Now, I should say that I've never been married either and don't think of myself as a head case. For me it was mostly a conscious choice. Women in general put a higher premium on getting married than guys do, so when they don't, there is usually, though not always, something else going on. This is not to say that most guys my age are any great prize either, though most seem to keep themselves up better than our female counterparts. The point is that the few really desirable single older women out there are going to be pursued heavily by all of us.

All in all, a very depressing analysis of the situation out there.

Okay guys, I'm done for now. Let's hear your reactions to all these posts.

Phuck it, I'm moving to Panama you guys are depressing me
Sparky

_________________
Sparky
Get in line to ride the lightning!!!


Almost legally single again! Voy a Colombia otra vece!!

Prolijo,
you never disappoint. I think your posts must be some of the most thorough, well thought-out posts at CRT.
A question for you...
Since I agree with you about not making fun of yourself but instead teasing them, what kind of topics do you think work best? For instance, you don't want to be trying to tease her a bit and end up totally offending her... though in a few cases that might actually work... what kind of things can be 'safely' teased about, in your opinion...? and what gets best response....

Also, you mentioned that most female interest, when out socially, comes when you are already with someone. That of course does not work. It makes you safe, since you can't go 'hunting' but it doesn't help, since you are unavailable. OTOH, if you are not with anyone, and therefore 'hunting', she may not give you the time of day because you are a social 'outcast' by coming alone. Or at least not 'safe', or probably a horny, over-eager perv. (yep!) Have you (or anyone here) tried going to events with what looks like a wedding ring, but no wife behind it?
Does this accomplish the desired approach / image, or can it totally backfire... anyone ever tried this? Maybe I can tell the girls I just wear it to keep away the barrage of women that come after me

In the end, the problem is that for all the damn effort that can go into getting laid, and the annoying female mouth 2-3 feet up from the 'magic triangle', are so annoying / boring / unpleasant, that it just makes it 'not worth it'. Easier to go home, pull a handy, and drink a beer quietly with a smile. Why kill ourselves to get that gringa experiance, with all the BS when we can pop into central america and have them kissing our ass for a change, with the language barrier a pleasant bonus (sometimes)

I would really like anyone's input on the 2 questions above... fire away!

-King Solomon

_________________
check yourself before you wreck yourself

Thanks all for sharing some great advice and thoughts. King Sol, Diego, Tman, Sparkchaser , and especially Projilo made several good points, especially that once we get a taste of the sensuous young Latinas of CR for less than the price of dinner and a movie for two here in the U.S., and I guess that would be a damn cheap dinner, somehow the gringa next door who you used to carry a torch for no longer seems so compelling.

A lot of this thread has been about May/December type romances, or whatever we call those relationships where there is a significant age difference.

Since I last visited this thread I have been giving a lot of thought to what is 'the age of descent'? This would be the opposite of the age of consent, the time when a young woman is no longer jail bait, usually 18 years old in most places. While some of these very young women are very attractive, given a choice such as available in CR, I prefer the 25 to 30ish age bracket. Sure, there are variables such as how well one takes care of themselves, so I'm referring to age in a very general sense.

So, the age of descent, a concept I use to describe that age when a person generally starts to have a more and more difficult time attracting the objects of their desire, when does that begin? For me, as I mentioned and Projilo clarified, available hot women over 40 that are not some kind of 'third rail' of romance seem to be few and far between.

Tman definitely has the right idea and is fortunate enough to not be stranded in the desert. For those of us who are, even though we can escape from time to time, this subject is pretty important.

Also, I wonder what gringas consider to be the age of descent for guys here in the desert. The reason why I would like to get a handle on this concept is purely a matter of percentages, and to some degree the preservation of self esteem. If my chances of getting something good going with a gringa in her mid thirties to early forties are virtually nil, I'd just as soon not waste too much time, money or energy chasing the uncatchable or searching for the romance version of the hold grail.

I admit that sometimes I browse through Yahoo's personals. What the hell, it's free. There are plenty of gorditas and desperadoes. I have to give some of them points for having the courage to post what they do. Sometimes I'll see one that looks worth consideration, usually posting an age somewhere in the mid to late thirties. If they say 39 I think 44

Anyway, in the part of the posting where they post what they're looking for, even the 39's usually are looking for someone in the 35 to 45 bracket. This amazes me, and yet at the same time tells me why they are available and resorting to something like Yahoo personals.

Several years ago I heard of a report that found that if a woman is either single or divorced and over 35 her chances of getting married were very slim. The divorce rate has gone up quite a bit since then, so I'm sure that's changed. Plus, maybe they're not looking for a spouse any more, but perhaps a f**k buddy or live in. Someone did mention earlier in the thread that they thought that marriage is probably more important to women, though. And even though it's 2005, I still think this is true.

Seems like maybe permanent escape to CR, or possibly looking for a nice 30 something Latina for an LTR might be the best remaining option.

Good luck all and Happy 4th of July!
JJ

Projilo wrote:



An Atkins version of gallo pinto might be the best thing to hit Latin America since the condom [/quote]

I'll take King's questions first. I believe someone has tried the ring thing. It was George Costanza in the third or fourth season of Seinfeld . What happened in his case was that in fact he did get hit on left and right by beautiful women who told him how attracted they were to him but also how disappointed they were that they could never act on it because of his "wife". Another comedy-show variation of this is pretending to be gay to seem less threatening and/or more of a challenge to a girl. It may sometimes work on TV, but I doubt it ever works in real life.

Telling the girl you're just warding it to ward off all the women will just let her know you're a BS artist. Telling her you're just recently divorced, seperated or recently widowed might work by garnering some sympathy but it just as likely might scare her off that you are emotionally not ready for other women. And you're still left with the problem of subsequent evidence showing up to reveal your lie.

All this highlights the problem of using any sort of deception to pick-up women. Such tactics might work in the short term if all you want to do is trick them into bed, but not if you hope to develop any sort of relationship with the girl beyond a few dates. You'll always run the risk of being "hoisted by your own petard" (to quote Hamlet). Sure women lie to us all the time too, but that doesn't mean we should do the same. Eventually it catches up with you. Better to be yourself and just make that work.

Now as to how to tease. I'm no expert. One thing I know when it comes to criticism in general is to only mention flaws that they can reasily do something about. For example, you can discreetly tell your buddy that his fly is unzipped or there's a booger hanging from his nose and he can fix those things, but tell him there's a pimple on the tip of his nose and he's only going to be self-conscious about it all night. In the case of women, you can tease a them about things that ultimately are of little consequence (how they pronounce a word, their choice of beverages, etc.) but not something much closer to their heart (such as their weight, their families etc.).

Even that isn't 100%. A lot of it is how it is delivered. There is a big difference between some light hearted gentle ribbing done with a smile and a nudge and plain old mean spirited insults. For example, just saying "you're stupid" is an insult that isn't even funny. But if she's blonde, try telling dumb blonde jokes instead. It is even better if the insults are obviously untrue. Telling dumb blonde jokes to a blonde PhD will still get a rise out her, but she might even start telling you some blonde jokes of her own that she's heard. Also more personal teases can be done if the comments are obviously untrue, for example telling a skinny girl she's fat (unless she turns out to be anorexic ). You also have to read the "victim". Is she laughing with you? Great. Is she getting pouty and defensive? Still not bad as that shows she cares what you think. Or is she getting hostile? BACK OFF.

Another possibility is to mix the teases with occasional reassurance. Let her know you actually think she's not bad looking, but that you're just trying to get a rise out of her. She'll realize you don't really mean any of it but you'll still get that rise out of her anyway. And always walk the fine line between being mildly irritating (read that - a sort of enigmatic challenge) and really ticking her off.

JJ,
I'm still not clear what you mean by the "age of descent". Do you mean the upper limit of when a girl is desirable? As in finding a girl somewhere between the age of consent (the lower limit) and the age at which they start to lose their appeal (the upper limit)(ie its all down hill from there). Or do you mean to contrast when a girl is simply legal with when she first actually starts to become realistic or appropriate for you. In other words, are you saying you would target the women below the "age of descent" or only those above it? OR are you referring to yourself? You say that your desired age bracket is the 25-30 year-olds. Were you referring to YOUR age of descent at which point YOU'VE become too old for such women?

I don't think a general rule of thumb for any of these can really be stated as their are so many variables besides the simple age of each party. Personally, I agree with your 25-30 brackets as being the best blend of youth, beauty and yet also emotional maturity. But that doesn't mean that I personally would normally have much success with that age bracket anywhere except in some latin country where attitudes and economics work in my favor. Others may favor women older or younger than that or if they favored the same age may have better or worse prospects with them.

How old are you? What state of fitness? How handsome? How rich? As TMan pointed out, how smooth a talker are you? How important to you are youth and beauty vs. finding some one at a similar stage of life? And on the other side, how well has the particular lady in question aged? All these things and more come into play such that different guys of the same age could have totally different realities.

One thing I heard recently, which I've also posted about before, is the rule of thumb taken from the Koran. In Islam, men are not supposed to marry women that are less than half their age plus 7. Thus, for a 50 year old guy that would be 32 (17 for a 20yo, 27 for a 40yo and 37 for a 60, etc.). Obviously, that still allows for some relatively young ladies. Unfortunately for me that turns out to be more the upper limit of desirability that I mentioned as well as the lower limit of practicality. Fortunately, the rule only mentions the age limit as it applies to marriage. They don't say anything (as far as I know) about any lower limits for just screwing around (at least not in the Koran)

That was a good one, Prolijo, and i'll fire away while I still remember your 3 points. (Composed this offline in Word, so forgive if it goes amiss in some direction -- lost italics, smilies, etc..)

Women are competitive; they want what they can't have. So if they see you with another, you've passed the attractiveness test, and NOW they're interested.

Yes, CR gives us both the actual fallback, and the aura of "I don't need you" That's what I was mentioning above, about playing with my expanded "chica aura".

And, “making fun” of them -- well, definitely don’t self-deprecate anymore -- Leykis is big on giving her insecurities another spin. Not sure I agree, closer to the middle ground. She’s looking for strength and confidence in you -- being A Man -- more than your two-edged sense of humor. I tended to overdo that before.

Now, it’s just STFU. If you stick your neck out enough, someone eventually, or often, is going to hand you your head as a reward. (My fault was doing that, and then not taking the nastiness as my clear signal to escape.) And we all know where nice guys finish, if they get to finish at all.

Prolijo, the post where you comment on the comments by Rolex and me doesn’t offer any solutions beyond “common sense”, “being yourself”, and “moving to CR”. (All of which I agree with, BTW.) Leykis is an entertainer, focused on HIS bottom line, but he’s gotten there by speaking some truths, and the main one I could throw in here is that, from the decades of anti-male propaganda (which we’ve internalized) in the good ol’ USA, we be F*#&ED trying to go after gringa females with any great chance at success and satisfying relationships. Something CRT members have gathered together to acknowledge, and adapt to. So -- that's our starting point, and we ain't gonna change it in our lifetimes.

In fact, Leykis has sworn off US women and prefers Latinas. (And Steele married one, age 22 to his 62, in L.A.) Who knows what Leykis actually does, off-air, but the attitude, while overplayed, is perhaps deliberately provocative as a corrective to what we’re actually living in. I would say “misogynistic jerk” is the publicity hook, but if you stop there, well, what does that say? The more intelligent listener can pick and choose -- and learn. He makes me think of the coaching fathers do not give their sons -- are afraid to, in fact.

Hell, why didn’t I listen to those Italian toughguys in H.S. who warned us against getting p***y-whipped? (No one else did!) .Two decades wasted. Of my supposedly “real” life. Coulda used a little misogyny myself, to lean against the romantic idiot who thought plunging into quicksand was such a great idea. Leykis didn't really stumble on to that message until less than a decade back, after his 4th marriage.

Anyway, I haven’t read the “materials” or “techniques” you’re describing, if you have, and actually CR has been more of a dodge to doing my own homework than I’d previously admitted, so that’s pretty much what hooked me about this thread -- wanting to aim at getting more solid where I am.

I think you would find Steele more to your liking. And, more targeted to those of us whose age has removed us from the bar/singles scene, but who still "always get it up for the touch of the younger kind" -- ("My My My Sharona").

Video store: Ah, you nailed it on #2. “flattered” but “no real interest”. Exactly! And I was not “really” pursuing her, just playing with the “chemistry of interest,” and she responded exactly the best I could have expected. Enjoying my attraction, and me staying on top of the wave that might bring me to a real possibility on a good day.

Remember -- our age and appearance ARE real factors, will be more so the rest of our lives, and I can’t change that -- only my attitude. I know that 9 out of 10 women under 30 are not interested. So I don’t torture myself over it, and I don’t expend vital energy. (It’s just like a walk through the BM after a good MP session!, dig?) It's called flirting, and it's been going on for 100's of 1000's of years, but I've only caught on lately.

OK, there you go -- in the paragraphs following, you outline very well the odds and priorities one must have. Yes, the 15% is real, and yes, 6s and 7s are the target zone, and yes, you have to be in your best shape and dress well (something you CAN have some control over -- women can forgive baldness better than a bad comb-over, can’t they?

But to say you might as well wait until you go back to CR (something my next two pre-purchased tickets have fully targeted) is to say “forget about any in-betweens”. (Hey, bro, remember, I’m just back two days, so I’m full of optimism -- you know how that works, I’ll bet. I tend to slip pretty low when things dry up; don’t even wanna think about it.)

Prolijo, I think your response to J.Joe is right on, though pessimistic-sounding (don't hear "wrong" in that), and I remember agreeing with his when I read it (hours ago), but all I can say is “Read Steele” and you’ll see the same kind of intelligent, reasoned, FEASIBLE thinking that YOU put into all of your writing. (It’s the practice that’s hard, and here I’ll ‘fess up to using CR as my shortcut -- so I admit speaking theory is not anyplace to argue from, which I'm not, so I'm just saying the thinking is something I think you’d appreciate.)

I think he says that the rollercoaster ride of an affair with a young gringa (like the Latina amusement park we describe here) is worth one's optimal effort. But, as here at CRT, knowledge is a pre-requisite.

Prolijo -- your last one there about “teasing” shows a good sense of finesse, sort of the template for all these difficult situations we’re talking about here. Remember, I’m only a guy talking about what he’s read for a few years, had a few glimmers of confirmation, and seems to fit with my own ideas of evolutionary biology (and what I see the animals in my backyard doing occasionally For example, those clothes piled on my treadmill...

And to KS, remember the “third way” between the CR girls and the gringas-- the indy pros around town -- making friends with them has helped me keep myself sane to where I might imagine making those minimal but optimal efforts at the ascent of Volcan Gringa. And CR has given me new perspective on how to relate to them. (More of a spectrum of involvement, than an either/or.)

JJ -- the question about age -- for anyone who’s raised daughters, “descending” to the legal age of 18 can be a pain in the ass, old buttons quickly pushed, even if it happened (though I must confess to being in the process of cultivating one right now, for more than a year -- interesting person to know, either way, so I don't push. "She chooses YOU -- always.")

Steele outlines the annual stages of a young woman’s life very astutely -- how she sees the world, and what she is looking for. Her maturity in being able to date A Man doubles about every year, from 18 on through 25. So, early 20s is really the sweet spot. And the post-divorce 35+ ,and 45+ bitter feministas is another desert to stay out of, for several good reasons. (Yes, better to hit Travelocity for SJO ticket, than Match.com for a bitter gordita)

Courting the early 20s, for a mutually-satisfying relationship is an art/science that many attest can be done. However, the prejudice in the US against over-50s men (she will have to hide you from friends, family, and boyfriends) in this, tilts the game back logically toward CR (and other vacation spots worldwide) for optimal results. We wouldn’t be talking here if it weren’t so.

The market price is higher in the US -- for everything -- it's where we make our money. And now we’re finding it worthwhile to outsource our needs to a lower-cost country. No surprise there.

Still, no saying you can’t play the Great Game -- wherever you are! Take pride in playing your best -- and play to win.

Now -- excuse me while I go “pimp my pad”. Never know when a hottie will want to come over and take a dip in The Grotto

Prolijo,

My references to the age of descent were just looking for opinions on, and this can only be very general, what is a typical age that a typical gringa starts to lose her allure. And, flip side, at what age, on average, do we gringos start to lose some of our attractiveness to gringas. This has to be approached as a singular question with no exceptions or variables. I share some of the observations you mentioned earlier about how our society is deteriorating into a fast food obesity tainted species, so maybe it's virtually impossible to age define this question. The variables will always be there, how fit, how smooth, how rich.

I guess what I'm trying to discern is how do people generally think about the opposite sex when it comes only to age. The extreme example would be if you asked most guys, would you sleep with a sixty year old woman, alright, how about fifty, forty five, etc. Visa versa, if you asked a random sampling of gringas would you sleep with a sixty year old guy, etc. What would the consensus age be?

There will always be exceptions. Cher might be a good example for some. To some she's still a sex symbol. What is she, late 50's, early sixties, dunno. Somebody must have done a lot of work there, so I don't know if the narcisism and silicone would do that much for me behind closed doors anyway.

If someone asked me what age gringa would be most appealing to me, I'd probably say mid-thirties to early forties. That would be at the top end of my estimated start of the age of descent. Drilling down into that age bracket (pardon the pun), I like women that age who don't try to dress or act 25, who take care of themselves, not just from an appearance perspective but also place some value on health and exercise. This is an integral part of their displaying healthy self esteem, and also that they may have some depth of personality and can contribute something to the relationship.

Thanks for the explanation of the Islamic approach to age appropriateness. I agree!

JJ,
Short answer to your question then is that most women do not age as gracefuly as most guys. Sure there are exceptions, but we're talking on average here. Also, as far as appeal to the opposite sex, physical attractiveness is not nearly as important to women as it is to us. Minor flaws of aging such as balding, developing a paunch etc. is not that important if the older gent in question has other qualities that appeal to women such as self-confidence, power, material success, etc. For us such things as sagging tits and belly stretch marks is much more important.

For me, IMHO, female physical attractiveness peaks in the 20's, declines somewhat but holds up reasonably well through the 30's, some women hold up well beyond that but many start to decline rapidly once they reach their 40's. I can't really say when guys really start to lose their appeal (since I'm not gay) but I would guess each of those estimates happen about 10 years later for most guys.

This is a great series of posts. I have been thinking more and more about my unwillingness to give a Tica financial support. I met a great woman through a friend during my last vacation.

When I consider the fact that I have habitually spent an average of $50 to $80 on a "date" with feminist gringas, I feel sick to my stomach. The worst case that comes to mind: I wasted a significant amount of money on a beautiful blonde (NFL tickets, countless meals, drinks, & numerous evenings at my place) and never had sex with the bi+ch!

For some reason, we tend to balk if a Tica asks for a few bucks to help her econmic situation. Note to self: A good meal for two with beers in San Jose can be had for $7 to $20.... And I'm going to get laid afterwards with no head games required.

As of this date, I'm going to play by Rolex's rules when it comes to Anglo-American broads. In the past, this has usually worked, but I was too dumb to realize this. For the past 18 months, I had a female friends with benifits, that I hooked up with about once a month. She knew I was seeing someone, but didn't care. We only went out for drinks twice during that time. It seems the less I send in terms of $$$ the more I get in terms of Sexo. Women are very confusing.

Good thread with a lot of great replies.

My 2 cents-

On Kings first question, lots of good topics but stay away from the same boring questions 99% of the guys ask hot girls. Don't ask how there day has been, what they did last weekend, what they have planned for next weekend, are they going to school, do they have a boyfriend, blah blah blah. I don't even want to think how many times these girls get asked this every day, tons. This stuff goes in one ear and out there other.

One of my favorite subjects is to ask them about sex. Ask them what's the wildest place they have had sex in and to describe it. Yea it’s a ballsy question esp. when you just met them but man I get some great responses. Ask them their favorite sexual position. Ask them if they could have sex with anyone in the world who it would be. These do a good job of breaking the ice and also tend to knock a girl off her game. They also create sexual tension.

If you’re not comfortable there move on to things like relationships, travel, books, etc. Ask them if they could live in one city in the world where would it be and why. Ask them what was the last book they read and to tell you a little about it.

On the teasing thing, this is something I wish I had done years ago. Just in the last 2 years I starting doing this after seeing a friend pick up girl after girl doing it. I think you can tease them about anything but you need to make sure it comes off as funny and that you’re just having fun.

I still remember the look a girl gave me when she asked how I think she looked and I said great but you could use some ab work in the gym, haha. I had a smile on my face and looked her straight in the eyes. She was dumbfounded and could not even talk, I continued drinking my beer and 10 minutes later she was all into me. I also love to tease when they yawn, roll there eyes, or for not smiling.

I was just teasing my hooters waitress today over the fact she didn’t have anything interesting to say or to entertain me with. She says "like I'm supposed to entertain you" and I follow with "yes you are so get to it". She throws out the "your not very nice" and I reply "no I'm not". We continued this for an hour, at minimum made for a fun lunch.

As Prolijo said I also think you should just be yourself. A lot of the dating stuff tries to make you things you are not but I think a guy just needs to find his niche not try to be someone he is not.

Also the Cocky Funny stuff is from David DeAngelo ( http://www.doubleyourdatinghelp.com/ ), terrible web site but some good stuff.

Flou

The beauty of San Jose and especially the Key Largo, is that even overweight guys over 50 can dance with the Latina of their choice all smiles and fun. Of course we have to keep in mind they are counting on us reserving at least $50 for their time with us . Guys in their 20s-30s shouldnt have any problem dancing with regular chicas in regular CR clubs. Just the realities of true dating dynamics...