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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:02 pm 
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Prolijo wrote:
Hank wrote:
I have walked many a times after midnight from the Presidente to the Del Rey. I feel safer walking that getting in some of those cabs. In going down the hill I am walking very fast with my head on a swival. However this was from 2001 to 2005. Don't stay there anymore
That may have worked when the crooks were following you after you walked out the doors of the HDR, but now that they've become more sophisticated in their methods and text ahead to their cohorts waiting at the bottom of the hill that would only mean you're walking faster into the arms of your would be attackers

RoyB55 wrote:
In June 2006 a guy walks out of the Del Rey with a Tica, they leave and turn to the left, proceed about half way down the block when two ticos tried to rob him. The guy would't give up his watch so a Tico wacks him with a machette cutting off his hand from the web between his thumb and index finger to the outside wrist bone. I don't know what become of the guy or if they reattached his hand but apparently he was saving money on a taxi fare......Crude comment? You decide.
That sounds like an urban legend to me. Do you know this for a fact? I had heard about a guy who was mugged by guys with machetes and that they even took a slash at him as he resisted (or fled, not sure about that part of the story). But the version I heard was that he escaped any serious injury because it was a glancing blow, he had on some sort of jacket that muffled the impact and I guess the blade must have been dull. HOWEVER, even IF your version of the story were true, its not like there has been a rash of crude amputations or that events like that are very common cuz I don't recall hearing of any similar incident since then.

Also consider the supposed facts of your story. If he was with a tica then a) he was with someone who probably could not have run so easily (particularly given what many chicas wear as footwear when going to the HDR), b) they were probably walking much more slowly than if he was doing it on his own or with wingmen and c) he was probably at least splitting his attention between her and what was going on in the street when he should have been completely focused on the street (e.g. head on a swivel as another poster mentioned). Also, once he allowed himself to get within slashing range of a guy armed with a machete, why was he even foolish enough to resist? I'm guessing, if he was coming from the BM and he did what he did, he must have been partially or very inebriated to have done anything so foolish. Or, if he was mainly sober, he must have been carrying much more money (or too valuable a watch) than he should have out on the street at that time of night if he felt compelled to defend it at such great risk? Unless he was gambling at the casino and had a lot of winnings (in which case he should DEFINITELY have taken a cab), there was no reason for him to have more than just leftover beer money and cabfare (i.e. no more than $10-20). Since he was heading back to his room with a chica, there was absolutely no reason to have his session money on him, since that should have been left in his roomsafe and taken out only when it became time to pay her to leave. If it was just about the watch then why would he wear such an expensive watch out on the street in a noted high crime area? IT should have gone either into his pocket where it would be less visible or, better yet, left back at home or in his room in lieu of something serviceable but cheap or no watch at all. My guess, if this event happened as you said, is that it was some combination of having had too much to drink AND carrying too much in valuables, or else it was just plain stupidity.

My point is that in practically all of these cases there have been plenty of contributing factors. That certainly doesn't mean that one won't EVER become a victim of crime short of taking cabs everywhere you go at night, but it does mean you can seriously cut down your odds of being the one who is hit or the consequences if you are hit. If there are 7 guys walking away from the HDR in the course of the night and 6 of them are stumbling drunk, escorting a chica in high heels, or sporting a gold watch and/or a wallet bulge in their back pocket (as many of them often are) and the 7th one is walking briskly and alertly making it harder for anyone to sneak up on him or even walking it with wingmen, who do you think are more likely to be the 6 victims? And if 5 of those guys simply give up their cash and the 6th guy resists, who do you think is most likely going to be the only victim that is seriously injured? If there are on average "only" 6 crimes per night in that area, then there have to be some number of guys who somehow manage to make the walk relatively unscathed.

I DON'T mean to suggest that attempting to do this is without risk. All I'm saying is that stories like the one above suggest that walking in that area at the time means serious risk to life and limb, which I think is REALLY unlikely and grossly overstates the case. I think, if one does decide to chance walking that route at night but at least practices some other precautions, it is much more likely that at worst they'll suffer being out $10-20, maybe a bump on the head or a bruise from being pushed down on the street and, of course, being unnerved by the event ... IF they wind up getting hit at all. Of course, I wouldn't want even those things to happen to anybody, but they're clearly not nearly as bad as what allegedly happened to the guy in the above story. On the plus side, at least you'll have a good battle tale to share with your friends as you're having a drink back at the bar to steady your nerves.

In short:
1) if you have any items (cash, jewelry, etc.) that are so valuable to you that you wouldn't be prepared to readily give it up to spare yourself possibly being shot, stabbed or slashed, then definitely take a cab
2) if you've been drinking, as most of us usually have by that point in the night, and are drunk or even just buzzed to the point that you're not as clearheaded as you need to be to be alert to any approaching danger, then take a cab.
3) if you're with a chica, particularly one in high heels, unless you're prepared to look like a complete cheapskate (or cad in the event that you have to run and ditch her), then take a cab
4) if you're seriously overweight (as many of you really are) or out of shape and are not able to run yourself if that were to become necessary (to prevent getting within slashing range in the 1st place), then take a cab.
5) if its raining out, which is not uncommon at certain times of the year in CR, then that certainly helps tip the scales even more towards springing the lousy buck for a cab even for short distances like the one in question when added on top of the security concerns.
6) if you don't have a wingman, who is also reasonably sober and able to fend for himself, to help watch your back (and make you both appear as more daunting targets) then I won't say you absolutely need to take a cab, but I will say you at least need to give some very serious thought to it, even for such a short distance, given the number of crimes that occur in that area.
7) And, as others have said, don't use the taxis at the curb in front of the HDR, which are there to rip off gringos with inflated fares, and don't use a pirate taxi (non-red without the triangle insignia and number on the door) unless possibly its one you know and deal with regularly. The official red taxis pass by that corner all night long and if you can't get their attention and flag them down from the door of the HDR, you can easily get them when they stop for traffic.

That all adds up for most of us most of the time to spring for a cab that late at night and this is coming from a guy who usually falls in on the side of taking his chances walking the streets.

BTW, call me a cheapskate if you will, but I don't think the usual meter fare for such a short ride (510 colones or ~$1 for the 1st km) is such a bad deal for the cabbie since the ride takes less than a minute and he can be right back to the exact same position he was before he picked you up a minute after that. Heck, theoretically, if he did that all night long he'd be making over $30/hr which is damn good in CR. The cabbies probably even prefer those short fares over ones that go further and take longer before the meter amount starts going up. While we're not talking about a huge amount either way, I don't see why one would feel compelled to tip those guys nearly 100% for doing something that they're probably perfectly happy to do anyway. If those cabs were hard to get, it might be a different matter, but they're not. By that point in the day, I always have at least 1 500c coin and/or several 100c ones and I think just handing the guy a couple of coins and letting him keep the smaller change is more than adequate. As it stands now, with all you guys paying 1K colones for a 500 colone ride, the cabbies are probably EXTREMELY happy that crime is as bad as it is in the gulch.


Prolijo
You are abolutely right, don't take a taxi, save the money, I was wrong. Stay at the Dunn inn, it's part way uphill to the HDR but comiing back it's part way down hill to the hotel. Take a short cut thru Morizon Park and say "Hola" to all the pretty girls along the way...And thanks for sharing your insights and wisdom. No need to respond to this post because I won't be back on this post again.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:35 pm 
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Prolijo wrote:
I think, if one does decide to chance walking that route at night but at least practices some other precautions, it is much more likely that at worst they'll suffer being out $10-20, maybe a bump on the head or a bruise from being pushed down on the street and, of course, being unnerved by the event ... IF they wind up getting hit at all. Of course, I wouldn't want even those things to happen to anybody, but they're clearly not nearly as bad as what allegedly happened to the guy in the above story. On the plus side, at least you'll have a good battle tale to share with your friends as you're having a drink back at the bar to steady your nerves. .


I`d just as soon take the cab than go in it thinking, "Well I`ve taken all precautions, but even if I get robbed they won`t get much money, and even if I get hit it probably won`t involve any more than a bump on the head." One hit with a blunt object can cause a lot more than a knot but death or serious brain injury. And if they are into hitting and shoving who knows what the limits are? And the fact that I`d have a war story to tell later provides no redeeming factor at all for me. Each to his own.

We had a guy in here about two years ago who was a frequent walker all over the city. He started a thread to tell us about getting attacked from behind and choked out. He was pretty much horrified from the experience. Stuff like that has a way of sticking with you. Forgot the guy`s username but some here probably remember the thread.

And btw, and this is just a statement that is completely unrelated to what Prolijo had to say, but worth noting. Cooperating with robbers offers no immunity from them messing you up. It`s true that it increases the chances they will let you go unharmed but there are times they mess the victims up for kicks, out of frustration because they didn`t get as much money as they hoped, or whatever other reason may reside is their distorted skulls.

And again, under the said circumstance I`d recommend the cab. :)


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:02 am 
Just Learning The Gulch!

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DiegoC wrote:
I think the real question is why would you stay at the Presidente instead of your regular places – Castillo and Dunn Inn?

Mostly for a change of pace and to try something new. Also, I am assuming that the rooms are newer and nicer at the Presidente- may be a bad assumption on my part. Not sure if it is worth the extra $$$ but I figure I won't know if I don't try it once...


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:25 am 
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Why all the hostility and sarcasm? I was just stating my opinion on the matter. It doesn't mean you have to agree with it. You also misread it because I was substantially in agreement with the bottom line expressed by most posters in this thread. I concluded by saying that under virtually all circumstances it makes sense to just hop in a cab. All that I was disagreeing with was what I consider the over-the-top "reasoning" given by some for taking a cab. To suggest hat some vague account of 1 person who ALLEGEDLY had his hand amputated several years ago (and after resisting), means that there is anything more than a VERY remote chance that something like that might happen to anyone who dares walk that stretch of road IS a GROSS overstatement. To suggest that even IF you get hit or pushed down that there is more than a slim chance your injuries would be so severe that they'd require hospitalization is also a bit of an overstatement as well.

Yes there is some risk and yes even the most likely consequences IF you get mugged are more serious than the really VERY minor (but certain) consequences to your wallet if you take a cab instead, but there are risks, rewards, and consequences in just about everything we do. We risk getting HIV and suffering from or even dying horribly from AIDS by having sex with prostitutes too, but we all do it because we have determined for ourselves that the certain rewards far outweigh the liklihood of those negative consequences. We can do a similar assessment of the risk of walking vs. taking a cab too, and for most of us the conclusion will be most likely be to not to risk it. If that is the case, no one has to oversell the case by citing only the worst (and really relatively very rare) outcomes as some sort of scare-tactic. Our decisions should be based on a coolheaded and balanced understanding of the REAL odds, risks and POSSIBLE penalties involved and not HYPERBOLE and EXAGGERATION.

BTW, I've been the victim of violent crime my self when I (rather foolishly in hindsight) fought off a thief who was trying to rob me in S FL, so I do know a little bit about what it feels like to be in and have been in that situation. OTOH, in all my walks around SJ, including some I probably should not have done late at night, I have NEVER been robbed. I'm not saying that means it could never happen, far from it. Maybe I've just been lucky or maybe the other factors I've mentioned have helped lessen (though not eliminated) my risk. I don't really know. All, I'm saying is that the odds of it happening to me haven't proven thus far to be as great as one would think it would be given some of the talk around here.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:47 am 
I can do CR without a wingman!
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I visit SJO about once a month for about a week. Had one problem, one time, about a year ago. Walking down the hill from the HDR area to the Presidente. Two Ticos approached from behind at a running pace. My novia saw them out of the corner of her eye, pulled me towards the wall & in about a half second a hand was in my RR pocket & in my RF pocket & out & they were running down the hill laughing. I was immediately more concerned about my novia so the 2 seconds it took me to make sure she was safe was waaay too much time to react towards them. I keep my small bills in my strong-sided pockets so they got off with a dozen or so 1000C bills & that was it. My novia was very upset; it the end it was no big deal from my end.

This was at 11:45 AM with people everywhere.

/dddick


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:02 pm 
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Prolijo wrote:
Why all the hostility and sarcasm? I was just stating my opinion on the matter. .


I`ve not noticed any hostility to this point, but just some sarcasm from one poster. And like you, that`s all anyone else is doing is expressing their opinion on the matter, and some of us took exception to the tone and content of parts of your post.

Prolijo wrote:
All that I was disagreeing with was what I consider the over-the-top "reasoning" given by some for taking a cab. To suggest hat some vague account of 1 person who ALLEGEDLY had his hand amputated several years ago (and after resisting), means that there is anything more than a VERY remote chance that something like that might happen to anyone who dares walk that stretch of road IS a GROSS overstatement. .


So the guy shared a story. I also alluded to a story here in the forum by a thread starter, a personal testimony from a guy who was attacked from behind and choked out, but neither Dan nor I spoke to probabilities, the chances of this happening. It was though noted that the Gulch these days is a high crime area, a point that no one has disputed... But regarding "very remote," so it`s down to mincing words, semantics. You could say the same thing about any number of extremely low crime suburban or rural areas in the states, "walk a couple of blocks, very remote chance of getting robbed," but the two are not equal. True, the chances are you`d make the walk from the Pres to the Del Rey at night successfully, but at the same time, Gringos are a target for robberies in the Gulch, especially at night. It is not a low crime area so the chances of running out of luck are considerably greater than many other two block walks. Therefore just like the other posters could be accused of overstating, the same charge could be leveled at you for understating, when comparing that particular two block walk to many safer ones you could make. But once it`s all said and done, why not just turn what you call "very remote" into "virutally nonexistent" by coughing up a measley 1000 colone note and talking a cab. Even better, split it with a wingman or two then even the cost becomes virtually non-existent...


Prolijo wrote:
To suggest that even IF you get hit or pushed down that there is more than a slim chance your injuries would be so severe that they'd require hospitalization is also a bit of an overstatement as well. .


Like I said, depends on what you are hit with. A couple of punches with fists, you are correct. Many punches with fists and feet the chances increase considerably. However a blunt object and the chances go way up, hospital or the morgue. You used the phrase "bump on the head" right? Well that gave me the impression that you were thinking in terms of of getting "hit over the head and robbed." This is often done with a blunt object, and if struck in such a manner chances aren`t so great that you`ll afterwards go straight to the bar and laugh it off with your buddies over a beer. That`s taking optimism to it`s extremes, and really for no reason. Just take the cab for a buck.

Prolijo wrote:
Yes there is some risk and yes even the most likely consequences IF you get mugged are more serious than the really VERY minor (but certain) consequences to your wallet if you take a cab instead, but there are risks, rewards, and consequences in just about everything we do. We risk getting HIV and suffering from or even dying horribly from AIDS by having sex with prostitutes too, but we all do it because we have determined for ourselves that the certain rewards far outweigh the liklihood of those negative consequences. .


True enough, so what are the "rewards" for skipping the cab and taking the walk from the Pres to the DR at 10 p.m.? The exercise? You save at the most 2 bucks? :lol: Based on statistics you could call the prospect of catching AIDs from a single heterosexual sex act with a stranger "very remote" if you want to but they are still considerably more than if wearing a condom. Most of wear condoms though and hopefully most spend a buck or two on cabs these days rather than walking around the Gulch at night.

Prolijo wrote:
BTW, I've been the victim of violent crime my self when I (rather foolishly in hindsight) fought off a thief who was trying to rob me in S FL, so I do know a little bit about what it feels like to be in and have been in that situation. .


I`m sorry to hear that. In case you didn`t know, robbery by it`s legal definition is a violent crime because it involves the threat or use of force to perpetuate larceny. I myself have also been a victim and my physical injuries were considerable. I also took the passive role, start to finish, but full copperation didn`t work that time as the perps were quite upset that I had little money on me. I`ve also heard other testimonies like my own, so, though cooperating improves your chances no one should consider it anything like a guarantee...


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:42 am 
I can do CR without a wingman!
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Not sure if this is something others do, but I share in the thought that a cab from DR to Pres isn't always the best bet. The cabs at DR give me concern. Pres to DR is easier (less monger-only customers), but I'm usually at DR late at night going back to the room.

Two good things about the walk from DR to Pres. A couple stops, and downhill for quick run if needed (I'm fairly fit for the ripe age of 44) Oh, never get totally drunk if your walking!

Go from DR to Monkey. Stay a couple minutes... Monkey to NY Bar, stay a couple minutes. Monkey to down the hill, make the right turn and keep that head on a swivel. (If at any time it looks like you're being stalked, find some friends and stay a little longer at Monkey or NY). Just a tactic. Nothings perfect, but it gets you past that immediate crowd hanging outside the DR and hopefully off the radar.

Oh! Sometimes NY is closed if too late, so not always available.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:01 pm 
Just Learning The Gulch!
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Theres to many factors involved in walking to DR to Pres. no body knows what will happen. Keep your life simple take a cab with three wigman, no problem maybe?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:11 pm 
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Go from DR to Monkey. Stay a couple minutes... Monkey to NY Bar, stay a couple minutes. Monkey to down the hill, make the right turn and keep that head on a swivel.

man, that's very cloak & dagger, like being followed by Russian spies!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:31 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!

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How damn amusing that it takes 25 posts to tell a newbie NOT TO WALK FROM THE HDR TO THE PRESIDENTI late at night. :shock: :shock: :shock:

Berk.....

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:37 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!

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Prolijo wrote:
Why all the hostility and sarcasm? I was just stating my opinion on the matter. ...


Maybe it's because you took 1,620 words to express your opinion. Gee wilikers. Have you ever heard of "Cliff Notes"? :shock: :shock: :shock:

Berk...

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:33 pm 
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Berk2302 wrote:
Have you ever heard of "Cliff Notes"? :shock: :shock: :shock:

Berk...

Or as promised long ago but seldom fulfilled--"Executive Summaries"? We're busy people here- -I personally have toe-nail trimming, nose-hair excision and various other activities which demand my utter attention.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:55 pm 
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Berk, if it is too long for you then don't read it. Nobody is forcing you. Evidently you did have enough time to word count it.
---------
Sincity, I'd have to agree with you that returning via that circuitous route does seem a bit involved (and time consuming) just to avoid taking a cab, unless perhaps one wanted to stop by the Monkey Bar and the NY Bar any way to check out what was there.
---------
Express321, I was mainly referring to RobRoy and, to me, sarcasm = hostility. Perhaps he was just reacting in turn to the tone and content of parts of my post as you suggest, but c'mon now. IMHO, that hand amputation story, which I seriously doubt is even true or even IF it was true was just one very isolated and never repeated case, was way over the top and much more of an exaggeration in its direction than anything I've suggested in mine. Again, I've never said that any sort of injury is absolutely impossible, just that the sort of serious injury he was talking about is extremely unlikely to the point that it can almost be ignored. Obviously, I don't have any hard numbers to back that up (any more than you guys have anything more than anecdotes of nearly always much less serious incidents occurring out of 100's of trips) but I think my assessment is much closer to the truth than there being anything more than an extremely remote possibility that one would suffer anything as serious as a hand amputation (like that only happening MAYBE to 1 guy out of the many thousands who have walked the area in the last several years).

As for the case you referred to, I believe that happened DURING THE DAY to a guy walking in an entirely different area. Does that mean we shouldn't even walk anywhere in SJ even during the day? Obviously not, as most of us seem willing to at least take that much of a chance. Is it a lot riskier for the particular route and time we've been talking about in this thread? Absolutely! And that is why most of us would draw our personal line somewhere between that and walking during the day. But that is a judgment call each guy should make for themselves based upon their own risk tolerance and an objective understanding of the risks involved (probabilities of different outcomes). Personally, in nearly all circumstances I would just hop in a cab to play it safe just like everyone else here, but if I were sober, alert, not carrying much if any cash and all the stars were properly aligned I MIGHT just make it a quick walk and in all probability nothing at all would happen.

BTW, there are nearly always contributing details to these anecdotal incidents that people leave out. In the case of the chokehold incident that I think you were referring to the person involved had just left a bank with a sizeable sum of cash and thinks he was probably followed. Most of the other incidents you here about, came after a night of drinking, involved the victims losing large sums of money or valuables that they should never have been carrying if they were walking around or happened in other areas or even during the day, though few would use those cases as arguments that one shouldn't walk around during the day. In any event, I've always said if you have to carry a lot of dough or anything else that might make you a target (e.g. a laptop case, a fancy watch, etc.) or have been drinking more than a light amount then obviously you should take a cab at any time of the day or part of the city.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:54 pm 
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Personally, I have never had a problem in SJ but I don't walk at night other than perhaps the walk up to Amistad once or twice. Having said that however I'll share with you a little story about some guys I met on one of my first few trips. I actually met the guys on the plane from Lauderdale. There were three of them and they were big dudes, and I mean big dudes. I'm 6' and 200lbs and these guys made me look like a pup. Anyhow, I ran into them one late afternoon around dark at the DR in the BM. We shot the shit for a bit and they had met another dude although he was a small oriental, there were now 4 of them. As it turns out one of the guys I met on the plane was a professiona football player for Miami and he was by far the biggest of them all. I'd say he must have been a the very least 6'-5" / 6'-7" and I can't even guess a what kind of weight he was pulling but it was muscle. I'm couldn't care less about football or celeberties... Just not my thing so I can't tell you his name but trust me when I say big... I mean BIG.

After a bit the guys tell me they are going to walk up the street and get something to eat and want to know if I want to go. I declined and instead I continued to do what I came to CR to do...... chase pu*sy. Anyhow, later that night I run into the the little oriental guy and ask him where the other guys are and he tells me...."Dude, you aren't going to believe what just happened. Some crazy Phucker just tried to rob us a knife point." I'm thinking "holy shit, either the robber was whacked on something or he was plain crazy." I ask him what happened and if everyone was okay. He explains that this dude just walks up to them with a huge knife and tells them to give him their money. I guess they figured there are are four of us and only on of you so they told him to Phuck off. The guy starts swinging the knife and the oriental dude hauls ass. Now, its 3 against 1.

I leave on Sunday and the three guys are on the same flight as me so I get the rest of the story. The long and the short of it was the three guys chase the phucker down and drag him back down to toward the DR where they find a cop and tell him what happened. They end up spending a few hours at the police station and their night is f'ed up. After all of that, they tell me the night after the incidence they see the same guy on the street again and he flashes a gun at them. The police apparently just let him go.

The point of the story is, you may think you are safe, you may think you are the biggest baddest mf'er on the planet but when a junkie needs a fix or someone is desperate enough they will do what they think they have to do. Be safe, be smart............ TAKE A CAB WHEN YOU TRAVEL AT NIGHT.

KenLee


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:17 pm 
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Over the years,a lot of guys i have met who were robbed,mugged in the gulch were,young,athletic type's and a fall to the sidewalk might not harm them as much as us older guy's..take a cab..oh and don't expect presidente security to rush to your rescue either.....

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