www.CostaRicaTicas.com

Welcome to the #1 Source for Information on Costa Rica
It is currently Wed Aug 13, 2025 9:53 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 63 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

What is your age group?
under 21 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
21-30 13%  13%  [ 19 ]
31-40 27%  27%  [ 39 ]
41-50 26%  26%  [ 38 ]
50+ 33%  33%  [ 48 ]
Total votes : 145
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:32 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:26 am
Posts: 2176
Location: Sex Felony State (most other places p4p is just a regular daily activity!)
A lot of the young bucks act disgusted by it although I think many just don't understand it and/or haven't had a enough negative life experiences from gringas to realize their eventual fates. :twisted: :lol:

Coming back from MDE this PAX on the flight (hispanic but non Colombian) just about slammed all men 50+ automatically labeling them all Mongers going on and on and on... I made one statement not very confrontational and he got pretty upset. Not raging but just upset so I just shut my lips then a late 30s Colombian mentioned how he married his secretary 15 yrs. to his younger and then the non CO quieted down after that.

The non-CO male was a college student finishing 4 months foreign exchange internship in MDE and a generally nice and friendly guy but young and bit naive. He also felt strongly he was going to get his dream job (wine taster) in California in this economy.....

Enuf said, the young really think they know it all.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:17 am 
PHD From Del Rey University!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:56 am
Posts: 3985
Location: Tampa, FL
JOsie,
First of all, I can see that you edited something in your post, but I can't tell what it might have been. The non-guideline conforming personal comments that I was referring to are all still there. What's more, not only didn't you change the non-conforming parts but now you add a post where you call me a mentally disturbed blowhard, like that is any nicer.

Secondly, I don't see how my 2nd post proves any point for you. You made a 17 line long post yourself earlier today which is about the same length as my last post and much longer than my first one which prompted your initial remarks. Beyond that, show me where it says anywhere in the forum guideline that anyone has to limit their posts to one-line zingers or insults.

Thirdly, you're seriously confused (or logic-challenged) as there is absolutely nothing "self-contradictory" about that line you quoted. It is your contention that anybody who doesn't share your belief that all CRT polls are 100% devoid of any informative content is in need of professional help (presumably psychiatric) not mine. Besides, there are MANY guys around here who routinely support their positions with even less definitive ANECDOTAL evidence. I guess we all need professional help.

Fourthly, I may have made a post which you found so offensive because it was a whole 7 lines long, but at least it was completely on subject and was not personally attacking anyone else. Meanwhile, you make not 1 but 3 seperate posts insulting me and having little if anything to do with the subject at hand. Since you've in turn called me a blowhard, an ass and mentally unbalanced, I've felt compelled to defend myself. Which is more of a waste of space, my 7 line post or the exchange that YOU initiated? Clearly, more sensible guys like Jester and AngryPirate would prefer to see this thread get back on track. So I suggest if you have any more insults to hurl, you spare all of us and PM me with them. I guarantee I'll give any PM from you the attention it truly deserves (click delete).


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: pot calling the kettle
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:39 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:08 am
Posts: 1498
Location: wriglytown
J0sie wrote:
Prolijo wrote:
"Dude",
I may think you're an asshole too, but I'm not going to start casting insults at you (like you just did at me) as that would be a violation of forum guidelines. Can I assume you weren't joking now because you didn't include any emoticons this time (or that just because you included emoticons before you can post anything you want and it won't betray what you're really thinking and I shouldn't find it insulting)?



First, I edit my previous post to be forum compliant. Secondly a big THANK YOU for actually making my point. You lack of brevity is mind blowing to say the least. (Pun indented).

Prolijo wrote:
It doesn't mean that 100% of the polls posted are done JUST as some sort of joke or that many if not most of those who start those more serious polls don't hope to at least get some idea of how things break down even if the non-scientific nature of the poll limit their reliability.


This is where blowhards get into trouble. Too much talk will always make you contradict yourself. BTW – Any person taking a CRT poll seriously at any level needs professional help.


josie wrote:

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:59 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personalmente creo que la mayoría de todos estos que no hablan español nunca van a poder comprender lo que se están perdiendo. ¿Como carajo le van a pedir a una chica sus mejores fantasías? ¿Como van a comprender lo que le gusta o no le gusta a ella? Sus limites, sus deseos, tus limites, tus deseos.


El hombre sin el lenguaje es un ser socialmente mutilado. Y, cuando hay defectos en esta cualidad, viene a ser no solo un impedimento para el habla, pero también para el resto de su vida.


http://www.razonypalabra.org.mx/anterio ... andez.html

“ La palabra es el hombre mismo.
Sin ellas, es inasible.
El hombre es un ser de palabras.”
Octavio Paz
Hombre y lenguaje, imposible hablar de uno, sin la presencia del otro. Es el lenguaje la más grande creación concebida por el hombre en todos los tiempos, pues a través de él ha logrado capturar el pensamiento, la acción y sentimiento de seres de distintas épocas. El hombre es el único de los seres vivientes que tiene la suficiente capacidad para representar simbólicamente la realidad. Esta afirmación será el punto de partida de mi reflexión sobre el papel que juega el lenguaje en la conformación del ser humano.
El lenguaje es el medio por el cual nos expresamos, es la comunicación que consiste en emitir e interpretar señales. Las señales forman parte de un código o sistema y esto nos permite entenderlas: Las señales de los sordomudos son un código: (lenguaje mímico), las señales en calles y carreteras son un código: (lenguaje gráfico), el alfabeto es un código: (lenguaje oral o escrito).
Hoy podemos viajar a través de los tiempos: Desvestir al pasado, descubrir el presente e inventar el futuro, el uso del lenguaje nos permite eso y más.
La lingüística es la ciencia que estudia todos los aspectos de las lenguas, tales como su origen, evolución, características, utilización y relación.
El lenguaje es universal ya que permite una gran diversidad de formas o maneras de expresión que conllevan al establecimiento de la comunicación. La estructura del lenguaje en su calidad de modo de comunicación está relacionada con otros elementos de particular relevancia.
La lingüística estudia el lenguaje en sus dos ramas principales: el habla y la escritura; no obstante, el lenguaje oral y el escrito son tan sólo uno de los múltiples lenguajes que el hombre utiliza para comunicarse.
La expresión verbal es una forma directa de hacer llegar un mensaje, de hacerse comprender, motivar, etc., a pesar de que el sujeto no esté físicamente frente a su interlocutor. El empleo de la voz como medio de comunicación produce importantes efectos, pues las vibraciones de la voz son capaces de conmover y de emocionar a toda una audiencia.
La palabra escrita, por su parte, es otro medio de comunicación valioso, cuyo propósito fundamental es dejar huella y registro de mensajes que pueden referirse a un pasado remoto o cercano, a sucesos de actualidad, e inclusive a especular sobre el futuro. Obviamente este medio implica mayores exigencias en términos de redacción y estilo que las de expresión oral, puesto que la escritura permite afinar el mensaje y en consecuencia incrementa las posibilidades de estructurar un contenido, evitando confusiones respecto al significado.
Por lo anterior, el lenguaje es el vehículo de comunicación más eficiente, en cualquiera de sus formas y maneras de expresión; de ahí que el lenguaje y la comunicación vayan de la mano.

Lenguaje y comunicación
La comunicación humana es un fenómeno intrínsecamente social. Desde las primeras comunidades humanas (la horda, el clan, la tribu) el hombre ha tenido necesidad de comunicarse para interactuar en su grupo social y así resolver los retos que desde siempre la sobrevivencia le ha planteado.
El ser humano es gregario por naturaleza, es decir, se une a otros seres semejantes a él y convive con ellos participando en la evolución y desarrollo de su grupo. De esta convivencia se desprende la necesidad de comunicación, la cual, en un principio, era rudimentaria, con base en gestos y gritos indiscriminados, es decir no seleccionados; después, al evolucionar el hombre y ser capaz de aprender de sus aciertos y errores, se llegó a una forma de comunicación únicamente humana: El lenguaje.
“La primera actitud del hombre ante el lenguaje fue la confianza: El signo y el objeto representado eran lo mismo”[1], cita Octavio Paz, y comparto su afirmación, pues históricamente, el hombre fue capaz de hablar cuando, a partir del momento iluminado en que discriminó los sonidos, los aplicó, primero, a determinados objetos que formaban parte de su entorno y, posteriormente, a ideas cada vez más subjetivas y abstractas que emanaban de sentimientos y vivencias que formaban el bagaje de experiencias de que era objeto y sujeto. Esto ocurrió dentro del contexto social en el que interactuaba, ya que como ente social no puede vivir aislado.
Paz escribió que “Al cabo de los siglos los hombres advirtieron que entre las cosas y sus nombres se abría un abismo.”[2] El argumento que encuentro es que se descubre una de las características inherentes del lenguaje: su arbitrariedad.
El lenguaje es arbitrario porque los creadores de una lengua usaron su arbitrio, no la relación lógica para nombrar a un objeto de acuerdo al gusto o a la circunstancia, lo cual es arbitrario, aunque se debe comprender que era imposible que los hablantes primitivos pudieran sentarse a discutir cómo nombrar los objetos, pues carecían de los elementos básicos de la lengua articulada, es decir, las palabras.
Es claro entender que las expresiones iniciales y primitivas no las conocemos en la actualidad, pues una lengua es algo vivo, como la comunidad que la utiliza, y varía desarrollando diferentes cambios a través del tiempo y del espacio.
Con la confección de los más sencillos instrumentos de trabajo surgió la necesidad de comunicarse con los demás hombres en el proceso de la actividad laboral y de empleo de los instrumentos; así nació el lenguaje articulado.
Puedo afirmar que la creación del lenguaje oral antecedió con mucho al lenguaje escrito y que ambos surgieron tanto del desarrollo del pensamiento humano y sus diferentes estadios evolutivos, así como de la conciencia paulatina desarrollada en el hombre de cubrir sus necesidades de cualquier tipo, incluidas desde luego las de comunicación.
Con el lenguaje escrito, el hombre dejó la prehistoria y entró al periodo denominado historia. Desde el momento en que deja piedras labradas, rollos, documentos que relaten sucesos vividos por él y su grupo, se convierte en un sujeto de la historia.
La lengua escrita está supeditada a la oral, aunque cada una de ellas cubre diferentes objetivos, pues la lengua hablada es por excelencia el mejor instrumento creado por el hombre para realizar su comunicación y la escrita es la forma mediante la cual el hombre conserva su pensamiento por medio de las letras o grafías, a través del tiempo y del espacio, lo cual nos lleva a considerar un rasgo fundamental de la palabra hablada, ser momentánea.

Estamos hechos de palabras
“El hombre es un ser de palabras”[3], Paz nos descubre al hombre como un hacedor de palabras, a partir de la realidad que vive, sin embargo, es tan subjetiva esa realidad de un ser a otro, que se atreve a asegurar que “las palabras nacen y mueren, como los hombres”[4].
Las palabras son los elementos del lenguaje que nos sirven para expresarnos, y debemos tener especial cuidado en elegirlas, ya que de esto depende, la eficiencia de nuestra comunicación.
Durante muchísimo tiempo, al hombre le bastó, para sus necesidades comunicativas, el lenguaje oral; sin embargo, al continuar la evolución humana y al complicarse el pensamiento humano, se necesitó otra forma de expresión que fijara las ideas, y consignara actividades de su vida práctica y económica. Se llevó a cabo un largo y paulatino proceso de desarrollo de la lengua escrita.
La lengua escrita surgió mucho tiempo después que la oral, cuando el pensamiento del hombre ya había evolucionado enormemente, y sus necesidades de intercomunicación se fueron complicando también cada vez más, sobre todo en las actividades económicas.
Aún cuando la lengua escrita tiene como principal ventaja preservar el pensamiento, es indiscutible que al morir un hombre, mueren con él sus palabras.
En el mismo caso de Octavio Paz, gran ensayista mexicano, se cumple esta afirmación, pues tras su muerte recibimos como legado sus escritos, sin embargo, el valor que retoman éstos ante nuestros ojos es distinto al que tenían mientras vivió Paz, pues sabemos que estas obras literarias podrán ser sujetas de los más completos y eficientes análisis, pero no tendrán oportunidad de defenderse de críticas o enorgullecerse por las alabanzas. Al morir Octavio Paz, mueren con él sus nuevas palabras.
Cuatro siglos antes ocurrió lo mismo con las palabras de Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz, hoy sus poemas forman parte de infinidad de bibliotecas que Emerson define como “Gabinetes mágicos en los que hay muchos espíritus hechizados, que despiertan cuando los llamamos; mientras no abrimos un libro, ese libro literalmente, geométricamente, es un volumen, una cosa entre las cosas. Cuando lo abrimos, cuando el libro da con su lector, ocurre un hecho estético”.[5]
Significa, pues que aún cuando la palabra escrita ha logrado traspasar la barrera del tiempo, sin un lector ávido sólo es un objeto más, como los muchos que rodean la realidad del hombre actual.
Esta reflexión nos lleva a la idea de que “Si la literatura es expresión, la literatura está hecha de palabras y el lenguaje es un fenómeno estético”[6], y aquí nuevamente cuestionaría la objetividad de cada escritor u orador al hablarnos de su realidad, pues es innegable que al comunicarnos procuramos la belleza de nuestro mensaje, dándole más importancia a ésta, que al contenido.
Borges, en su libro Obras Completas III nos presenta el análisis de dos textos: Un famoso soneto de Quevedo, escrito a la memoria de Don Pedro Téllez Girón, duque de Osuna, y otro de Enrique Banchs en apariencia, dedicado al espejo. En ambos análisis pone de manifiesto como estos dos poetas disfrazan y disimulan una realidad, en el afán de crear un mensaje bello a la vista y al oído. En ambos casos no existe la mala intención de alterar la realidad de los casos que exponen por un obscuro interés, sino el de crear un poema bello en su estructura.
Es apasionante observar como los lingüistas, junto con los psicólogos, los sociólogos y los especialistas en etnografía, han ido interesándose en las dos últimas décadas por el hablar, por el uso del lenguaje humano en situaciones sociales determinadas.

El análisis del lenguaje en función de las relaciones interpersonales exige distinguir con infinito cuidado las distintas situaciones en las que se producen los enunciados, los propósitos del hablante y la relación con los distintos hábitos culturales.
“Toda palabra implica dos: El que habla y el que oye”[7] Bajo este contexto, es mi intención dejar claro que para que exista la comunicación, que el lenguaje esté en una práctica real, debe configurarse el binomio emisor-receptor. La eficiencia de un mensaje será medido en tanto se logre la comprensión en nuestro receptor sobre el mensaje que dimos a conocer.
En el momento en que somos partícipes en un proceso de comunicación, y asumimos el papel de emisores, debemos pensar en quién será nuestro emisor, y a partir de él, estructurar el contenido de nuestro mensaje. Es así que se logra la eficiencia y pertinencia del lenguaje.
Y esta afirmación también se aplica en la comunicación escrita. “El hombre pone en marcha el lenguaje”[8], funge como su “creador”, y por lo tanto, es responsable directo de sus implicaciones en el receptor.
Es importante poner de relieve que el hombre es el único de los seres vivientes sobre la Tierra que tiene la suficiente capacidad para representar simbólicamente la realidad.

Texto y discurso

“El sujeto que habla no sitúa el mundo en relación consigo mismo, no se sitúa pura y simplemente en el seno de su propio espectáculo, como el artista, sino en relación con el otro”[9].

Lévinas fortalece la idea de que al momento de expresar un mensaje, debemos pensar en nuestro receptor, a quién nos estamos dirigiendo, el emisor no es autónomo, pues la producción de sus mensajes está siempre supeditada a su receptor.

Los hablantes de una lengua han interiorizado un conjunto de reglas que les permiten emitir enunciados que presentan una estructura gramatical y que son semánticamente aceptables para los demás hablantes de la misma lengua, igualmente, pueden distinguir estos enunciados de los que no están bien construidos desde el punto de vista gramatical o que no son aceptados significativamente. Una narración cualquiera o una conversación están formadas por un encadenamiento, no puede producirse de una manera absolutamente libre, sino que tiene que obedecer a un conjunto de reglas y propiedades.
Las narraciones escritas o las conversaciones de la vida cotidiana presentan características que las hacen comprensibles para el lector y para los hablantes. Existen elementos y propiedades como la claridad, coherencia y orden que van generando lentamente la coherencia término técnico que sirve para designar el fenómeno que supone que la correcta interpretación semántica de un enunciado no solo depende de él, sino también depende de la interpretación de los anteriores.
Roland Barthes define la lengua como un “corpus de prescripciones y hábitos, común a todos los escritores de una época, lo que equivale a decir que la lengua es como una naturaleza que se desliza enteramente a través de la palabra del escritor”.[10] Partiendo de esta reflexión, podríamos afirmar que el escribir en la misma época histórica supondría similitud en los escritos entre una y otra persona, sin embargo, se involucra el estilo que el mismo Barthes categoriza como “un secreto”, dado que lo concibe como “un producto natural de la persona biológica”[11].
Si observamos a nuestro alrededor, veremos que aún entre las personas que hablan un mismo idioma, no todas lo hablan, ni lo escriben de la misma manera, encontramos que dentro del mismo idioma, existen diferentes lenguajes: Uno es el que hablan las personas cultas, y por eso se le conoce con el nombre de lenguaje culto; otro es el que hablan los profesionistas entre sí, y se conoce con el nombre de lenguaje técnico o científico; otro es el que se usa en poesía, por eso se le llama lenguaje poético; existen también palabras que se usan dentro del hogar y que forman el lenguaje familiar; por último, existe un lenguaje que usan las personas sin educación y sin cultura, que forman lo que se conoce con el nombre de vulgo, y a ese lenguaje se le da el nombre de lenguaje vulgar.
Esta diversidad de tipos de lenguaje propicia la proliferación de estilos, maneras muy personales de ver y entender la realidad del ser humano.
“Lengua y estilo son fuerzas ciegas; la escritura es un acto de solidaridad histórica”[12]. Esta afirmación de Barthes coincide con la visión del lingüista más famoso de los tiempos modernos, Ferdinand de Saussure, quien define a la lengua “como un sistema en el que todas las partes pueden y deben considerarse en su solidaridad sincrónica”.[13]

La lengua es un sistema que no conoce más que su propio y peculiar orden.
Algo en lo que coinciden los escritores de una misma época, es que aún con estilos diferentes, narran una misma realidad, desde sus muy particulares apreciaciones.
“El lenguaje nunca es inocente,”[14] a partir de que el emisor decide comunicar su pensamiento, se estructura la intención, es decir, el porqué de ese mensaje. Esta intención despoja al lenguaje de su inocencia, pues cada palabra elegida para formar nuestro mensaje está envuelto en significados intencionales. Su utilización se sujeta a los caprichos del emisor, quién crea expresiones que sirven de espejo o velo a su pensamiento, pues una palabra puede ser pura y correcta, pero puede estar mal aplicada para significar lo que queremos.

¿Adiós a los libros?
Roger Chartiér nos presenta una trayectoria de lo escrito en distintas épocas, y expone una seria advertencia: “El libro ya no ejerce más el poder que ha sido suyo, ya no es más el amo de nuestros razonamientos o de nuestros sentimientos frente a los nuevos medios de información y comunicación de que a partir de ahora disponemos.”[15]
La transición del lenguaje, como Chartiér la plantea: del códice a la pantalla supone más cambios de los que en apariencia pudiera tener el lenguaje, pues representa, cómo él mismo lo identifica: “la revolución del texto electrónico, que es y será también una revolución de la lectura”.[16]
Considero que el cambio en el medio de transmisión del lenguaje, del códice a la pantalla, no es la modificación más significativa que ha sufrido a través de los tiempos, pues solamente se le está sujetando a los cambios que el uso de la nueva tecnología impone a todas las cosas; la apertura de los textos electrónicos si revolucionan en gran medida a la lectura, pero creo que para bien, dado que la reviste de un atractivo especial para los nuevos lectores, pues son receptores del conocimiento a través de un medio electrónico que les facilita la aprehensión de lo leído.
Estos medios electrónicos, en mi opinión, no vienen a sustituir al libro como el “heredero directo del manuscrito,”[17] sino que ampliarán el universo de lectores, pues en nuestros días, es mucho más práctico accesar a una pantalla electrónica y enterarte de los sucesos pasados y recientes en cuestión de minutos; que el esperar a la edición de un libro sobre el tema.
El libro es el medio didáctico por naturaleza y creo firmemente que mantendrá ese nivel, pero no podemos, ni debemos menospreciar el avance que la tecnología nos plantea. La universalidad del lenguaje es posible por su expresión continua entre el mayor número de personas, y estoy convencido de que los medios electrónicos favorecen esa universalidad.

El lenguaje como discurso
Paul Ricoeur define al discurso como “la primera unidad del lenguaje y el pensamiento”,[18] y la explica como el entrelazamiento de por lo menos un nombre y un verbo. Aristóteles dice lo mismo en su tratado Sobre la Interpretación. “Un nombre tiene un significado y un verbo tiene, además de un significado, una indicación del tiempo. Solamente su unión produce un nexo predicativo, que puede ser llamado logos, discurso.”[19]
Estas definiciones plantean un problema antaño: Los estudiosos del lenguaje se han centrado en el análisis de su estructura y sistema y no con su uso, filosofía de Ferdinand de Saussure, considerado como el “padre de la lingüística”. Sin embargo, esta filosofía se separa del estudio objetivo del lenguaje, dado que “un mensaje es arbitrario y contingente, mientras que un código es sistemático y obligatorio para una comunidad de hablantes”.[20]
A lo largo de nuestra vida, emitimos un sin fin de mensajes llenos de intenciones y arbitrarios en gran medida, dado que combinamos las palabras a nuestro arbitrio, me atrevería a afirmar que nuestro conocimiento sobre la lengua es pobre, en la medida en que la utilizamos para resolver solo nuestras necesidades de comunicación, pocas veces nos preocupamos por analizar la estructura de nuestros mensajes, medimos la eficiencia de lo que decimos o escribimos, en la respuesta o entendimiento de nuestros receptores.
“El lenguaje como discurso ha desaparecido”, pues “ya no aparece como la mediación entre mentes y cosas. Constituye un mundo en sí mismo, dentro del cual cada elemento sólo se refiere a elementos del mismo sistema, gracias a la interacción de oposiciones y diferencias constitutivas del sistema. El lenguaje ya no es tratado como una forma de vida, sino como un sistema autosuficiente de relaciones internas”.[21]
Nuestra lengua es una lengua viva, es decir que cualquier estudio sobre ella, debe incluir el uso que le dan sus hablantes, intentar analizarla sólo por su estructura de sistema, es en vano. El lenguaje es rico, en la medida en que se practica y dista mucho su estructura formal, del uso cotidiano que ha tenido en las distintas épocas, a partir de su creación.
Concluyo mi ensayo reafirmando: El lenguaje es la máxima creación del hombre, pues a partir de él representa simbólicamente la realidad. Una lengua es algo vivo, como la comunidad que la utiliza y varía desarrollando diferentes cambios a través del tiempo y del espacio.
Y son precisamente estos dos elementos: tiempo y espacio, los que hacen del análisis del lenguaje una jornada extenuante y en muchas de las ocasiones, con un resultado de ese análisis tan subjetivo, como la realidad misma de quienes lo practican.
Poetas, filósofos, sociólogos y especialistas en las distintas disciplinas científicas y tecnológicas han aceptado el reto de hurgar en el largo camino que ha seguido el lenguaje a partir de su creación.
Finalizo diciendo: La comunicación y el lenguaje articulado ejercieron un influjo en la evolución del cerebro, por consiguiente, la comunicación creó al propio hombre, y también gracias a la comunicación apareció y comenzó a desarrollarse la sociedad…nuestra sociedad.
…Porque el lenguaje es creación y expresión del pensamiento humano.


Bibliografía
1.- Jorge Luis Borges, OBRAS COMPLETAS III, Editorial Emece.
2.- Octavio Paz, EL ARCO Y LA LIRA, Editorial Fondo de Cultura Económica.
3.- Emmanuel Lévinas, FUERA DEL SUJETO, Editorial Caparrós
4.-Roland Barthes, EL GRADO CERO DE LA ESCRITURA, Editorial siglo XXI, 13ª. Edición.
5.- Roger Chartér, SOCIEDAD Y ESCRITURA EN LA EDAD MEDIA
6.- Paul Ricoeur, TEORIA DE LA INTERPRETACION, Editorial siglo XXI
----------------------------------------------------------------------
[1] (Octavio Paz, “El arco y la lira”, P. 29)
[2] (Ídem, p.29)
[3] (Ídem, p. 30)
[4] (Ídem, p. 30)
[5] (Jorge Luis Borges “Siete noches”, p. 254)
[6] (Ídem, 254)
[7] (Octavio Paz, “El arco y la lira”, p.45)
[8] (Ídem, p.37)
[9] (Emmanuel Lévinas, “Fuera del sujeto”, p. 162)
[10] (Roland Barthes,” “El grado cero de la escritura” La obra no contenía número de página)
[11] (Ídem, Sin página, ya la obra no contaba con ella )
[12] (Ídem, sin página la obra)
[13] (Copias de Ferdinand de Saussure., no se contaba con los datos de la obra)
[14] (Ídem)
[15] (Roger Chartiér, “Del Códice a la pantalla”, p.249)
[16] (Ídem, p. 255)
[17] (Ídem, p.252)
[18] (Paul Ricoeur, “El Lenguaje como discurso”, p.15)
[19] (Ídem, p.15)
[20] (Ídem, p.17)
[21] (Ídem, p.20)
_________________
Hit them fast, Hit them hard and NEXT!

_________________
But mama, that's where the fun is

//\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:53 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:37 am
Posts: 1838
Location: Chicago, IL
Mr. Black – That is so funny. If you would take the time to learn Spanish, you will know that I did not write that. It is a copy/paste article. Too funny. :P :P :P :P :P

_________________
Hit them fast, Hit them hard and NEXT!
A good chica is like a good carpenter - No wood gets wasted!!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:58 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:57 pm
Posts: 9518
Location: NFM--Geezers, cowpokes and the working poor--yeeha!
Brother Mr. Black at least wins the prize for the longest Spanish-language post ever on this Board. Anybody want to run it through Babelfish or Google Language Translator and post that for us hapless non-speaking souls?

_________________
"A man accustomed to hear only the echo of his own sentiments, soon bars all the common avenues of delight, and has no part in the general gratification of mankind"--Dr. Johnson
"Amen, brother"-ED


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:49 am 
PHD From Del Rey University!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:56 am
Posts: 3985
Location: Tampa, FL
I'll post a translation, not that it will make much more sense or add any relevance. Also, JB, you're making the same mistake that it appears Mr Black might have made. Brother Black was only reposting a post made by Brother J0sie in order to show J0sie is capable of making posts as long or longer than any of mine. So if anyone deserves a prize for the longest Spanish-language post ever on this board it is really Brother J0sie. What is more, Brother J0sie has already pointed out that he didn't actually write that himself but rather copied and pasted it from the site referenced in the hyperlink. I don't know whether Brother Black realized that or not, or whether he needs to "take the time to learn Spanish". I'll leave such snide remarks for others to make :P . However what is really "so funny" is that it doesn't really matter any way. Brother Black successfully proved that not only could Brother J0sie also post tedious and excessively lengthy material (of whatever origin), but that he could also be completely unoriginal in doing so. It also is surprising being quoted by J0sie of all people because unlike him it EXTOLS man's use of language in all its myriad forms and styles and does so in far from a concise manner.

Anyway, for whatever it is worth (BabelFish usually just produces babble), here is the translation:

Quote:
Language: Creation and expression of the thought

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Victor Manuel Hernandez Iron
Number 19

“ the word is the same man.
Without them, he is inasible.
The man is a being of words. ”


Octavio Paz

Man and language, impossible to speak of one, without the presence of the other. The greatest creation conceived by the man in all the times is the language, because through him it has managed to capture the thought, the action and feeling of beings of different times. The man is the unique one of the living beings whom the sufficient capacity has to represent the reality symbolically. This affirmation will be the departure point of my reflection on the paper that plays the language in the conformation of the human being.

The language is the means by which we expressed ourselves, it is the communication that consists of emitting and interpreting signals. The signals form part of a code or system and this allows to understand them us: The signals of the sordomudos are a code: (mímico language), the signals in streets and highways are a code: (graphical language), the alphabet is a code: (oral or written language).

Today we can travel through the times: To undress to the past, to discover the present and to invent the future, the use of the language allows that us and more.

The linguistic one is the science that studies all the aspects of the languages, such as its origin, evolution, characteristics, use and relation.

The language is universal since it allows to a great diversity of forms or ways of expression that entails to the establishment of the communication. The structure of the language in its quality of communication way is related to other elements of particular relevance.

The linguistic one studies the language in its two main branches: the speech and the writing; however, the oral language and the writing are only one of the multiple languages that the man uses to communicate.

The verbal expression is a direct form to make arrive a message, to be made include/understand, to motivate, etc., although the subject is not physically in front of its interlocutor. The use of the voice as mass media produces important effects, because the vibrations of the voice are able to affect and to move to all a hearing.

Word written, on the other hand, is another mass media valuable, whose fundamental intention is to leave to track and registry of messages that can talk about to a remote or near past, to events of the present time, and including specular a on the future. Obvious this means imply majors exigencies in terms of writing and style that those of oral expression, since the writing allows to sharpen the message and consequently it increases the possibilities of structuring a content, avoiding confusions with respect to the meaning.

By the previous thing, the language is the vehicle of more efficient communication, in anyone of its forms and ways of expression; for that reason the language and the communication go of the hand.


Language and communication

The human communication is an intrinsically social phenomenon. From the first human communities (the horde, the clan, the tribe) the man has had necessity to communicate to interact in his social group and thus to solve the challenges that from always the survival have raised to him.

The human being is gregarious by nature, that is to say, he is united to other similar beings to him and coexists with them participating in the evolution and development of his group. This coexistence the communication necessity is come off, which, at first, was rudimentary, with base in gestures and indiscriminate, that is to say not selected shouts; later, when evolving the man and to be able to learn of his successes and errors, arrived itself at a form of solely human communication: The language.

The first attitude of the man before the language was the confidence: The sign and the represented object were the same [1], Octavio mentions Peace, and I share its affirmation historically, because, the man was able to speak when, as of the illuminated moment at which he discriminated the sounds he applied, them, first, to certain objects that comprised of their surroundings and, later, to subjective and more and more abstract ideas that feelings and experiences emanated of that formed the baggage of experiences of which it was subject object and. This happened within the social context in which it interacted, since as social being cannot live isolated.

Paz wrote that After the centuries the men noticed that enters the things and its names an abyss was abría. [2] the argument that encounter is that one of the inherent characteristics of the language is discovered: its abuse.

The language is arbitrary because the creators of a language used their will, it relation logical not to name to an object according to the taste or the circumstance, which is arbitrary, although it is due to include/understand that it was impossible that speaking the primitive ones could sit down to discuss how to name the objects, because the basic elements of the articulated language, that is to say, the words lacked.

It is clear to understand that the initial and primitive expressions we at present do not know them, because a language is something alive, like the community uses that it, and varies developing different changes through time and of the space.

With the preparation of the simplest instruments of work the necessity arose to communicate with the other men in the process of the labor activity and use of the instruments; thus the articulated language was born.

I can affirm that the creation of the oral language preceded by far to the written language and that both as much arose from the development of the human thought and their different evolutionary stages, as well as of it brings back to consciousness gradual developed in the man to cover his needs with any type, including of course those of communication.

With the written language, the man left the prehistory and entered the denominated period history. From the moment at which it leaves worked stones, rolls, documents that events lived by him and their group relate, become a subject of history.

The written language is submitted to the oral one, although each of them covers different objectives, because the spoken language is par excellence the best instrument created by the man to realise its communication and the written one is the form by means of which the man conserves his thought by means of the letters or spellings, through time and of the space, which takes to us to consider a characteristic fundamental of the spoken word, to be momentary.


We are done of words

The man is a being of 3 words [], discovers us to Peace to the man like a hacedor of words, from the reality that lives, nevertheless, is so subjective that reality from a being to another one, that it dares to assure that the words are born and die, like the 4 men [].

The words are the elements of the language serve that us to express to us, and we must have special well-taken care of in choosing them, since on this it depends, the efficiency of our communication.

During very many time, to the man it was enough to him, for his comunicativas needs, the oral language; nevertheless, when continuing the human evolution and when being complicated the human thought, was needed another form expression that determined the ideas, and briefed activities of its practical and economic life. It was carried out a length and gradual process of development of the written language.

The written language arose much later that the oral one, when the thought of the man already had evolved enormously, and their needs of intercommunication went away more and more also complicando, mainly in the economic activities.

Even though the written language must like main advantage preserve the thought, is unquestionable that when a man dies, their words die with him.

In the same case of Octavio Paz, the great Mexican essay writer, fulfills this affirmation, because after its death we received like legacy its writings, nevertheless, value that they retake these before our eyes is different from that they had while Paz lived, because we know that these literary works could be subject of the most complete and efficient analyses, but will not have opportunity to defend themselves of critics or to be proud by the praises. When dying Octavio Paz, their new words die with him.

Four centuries before it happened the same with the words of Sister Juana Ines de la Cruz, today his poems comprise of infinity of libraries that Emerson defines as magical Cabinets in which there are many enchanted spirits, who wake up we called when them; while we did not abrimos a book, that book literally, geometrically, is a volume, a thing between the things. We abrimos when it, when the book gives with its reader, happens an aesthetic fact. [5]

It means, since even though the written word has managed to transfer the barrier of the time, without an eager reader is only an object more, like many that surround the reality by the present man.

To this it takes us reflection to the idea that If Literature is expression, Literature is done of words and the language is 6 an aesthetic phenomenon [], and here speaker when speaking us would question the objectivity of each writer again either of its reality, because he is undeniable that when communicating to us we tried the beauty of our message, giving him the more importance to this one, that to the content.

Borges, in its book Complete Works III presents/displays the analysis to us of two texts: Famous soneto of Quevedo, written to the memory of Don Pedro Téllez Girón, Duke of Osuna, and another one of Enrique Banchs seemingly, dedicated to the mirror. In both analyses he shows as these two poets disguise and disguise a reality, in the eagerness to create a at sight beautiful message and to the ear. In both cases the bad intention does not exist to alter the reality of the cases that expose by a dark interest, but the one to create a beautiful poem in its structure.

Is exciting to observe like the linguists, along with the psychologists, the sociologists and the specialists in ethnography, they have been interested in the two last decades by speaking, by the use of the human language in determined social situations.

The analysis of the language based on the interpersonal relations demands to distinguish with well-taken care of infinite the different situations in which the statements take place, the intentions of speaking and the relation with the different cultural habits.

All word implies two: The one that speaks and the one that hears [7] Under this context, are my intention to make clear that so that exists the communication, that the language is in a real practice, the emitting-receiving binomial must be formed. The efficiency of a message will be measured in as much is obtained the understanding in our receiving one on the message that we presented.

At the moment in which we are contributor in a communication process, and we assumed the role of emitters, we must think about whom will be our emitter, and from him, to structure the content of our message. It is so it is obtained the efficiency and relevance of the language.

And this affirmation also is applied in the written communication. the man starts up the language [8], acts like creative his, and therefore, he is responsible direct for his implications in the receiver.

It is important to put of relief that the man is the unique one of the living beings on the Earth that has the sufficient capacity to represent the reality symbolically.


Text and speech

The subject that speaks does not locate the world in relation to itself, is not placed purely and simply in its own spectacle, like the artist, but in relation to the other [9].

Lévinas fortifies the idea that at the time of expressing a message, we must think about our receiver, to whom we are going, the emitter is not independent, because the production of its messages always is submitted to its receiver.

The speakers of a language have internalised a set of rules that allow them to emit statements that present/display a grammar structure and that are semantically acceptable for the other speakers of the same language, also, they can distinguish these statements of which or they are not constructed from the grammar point of view or which they are not accepted significantly. A narration anyone or a conversation is formed by a linking, cannot take place of an absolutely free way, but it must obey to a set of rules and properties.

The written narrations or the conversations of the daily life present/display characteristics that make them comprehensible for the reader and the speakers. Elements and properties like the clarity, coherence and order exist that are generating the coherence slowly technical term that serves to designate the phenomenon that supposes that the correct semantic interpretation of a statement not only depends on him, but also depends on the interpretation of the previous ones.

Roland Barthes defines the language like corpus of prescriptions and habits, common to all the writers of a time, which is equivalent to say that the language is like a nature that entirely slides through the word of the writer. [10] Starting off of this reflection, we could affirm that writing in the same historical time it would suppose similarity in writings between both person, nevertheless, becomes jumbled the style that the same Barthes categorises like a secret, since conceives like a natural product of the biological person [11].

If we observed ours around, we will see that still between the people who speak a same language, they do not speak all it, they write nor it in the same way, we found that within the same language, different languages exist: One is the one that speaks the cultured people, and for that reason it is known him with the name of cultured language; another one is the one that speaks the profesionistas to each other, and it is known with the name of technical or scientific language; another one is the one that is used in poetry, for that reason poetic language is called to him; words also exist that are used within the home and which they form the familiar language; finally, a language that uses the people without education and culture, that form what it is known with the common people name, and to that language exists occurs the name him of vulgar language.

This diversity of types of language causes the proliferation of styles, very personal ways to see and to understand the reality of the human being.

Language and style are blind forces; the writing is an act of historical solidarity [12]. This affirmation of Barthes agrees with the vision of the most famous linguist of the modern times, Ferdinand de Saussure, who defines to the language like a system in which all the parts can and must consider in their synchronous solidarity. [13]


The language is a system that does not know more than its own and peculiar order.

Something in which the writers of a same time agree, is that still with different styles, narrate a same reality, from his very particular appreciations.

The language never is innocent, [14] from which the emitter decides to communicate its thought, structures the intention, that is to say, because of that message. This intention undresses to the language of its innocence, because each chosen word to form our message is surrounded in meaning intentional. Its use subjects to the whims of the emitter, who creates expressions that serve as mirror or veil to their thought, because a word can be pure and correct, but can be badly applied to mean what we want.


Goodbye to books?

Roger Chartiér presents/displays a trajectory to us of the writing at different times, and sets out a serious warning: the book no longer exerts plus the power that has been his, no longer is plus the master of our reasonings or our feelings in front of new means of information and communication that from now on we have. [15]

The transition of the language, as it raises it to Chartiér: of the codex to the screen it supposes more changes of those than seemingly it could have the language, because it represents, how it identifies it to he himself: the revolution of the electronic text, that is and will be also a revolution of the reading. [16]

I consider that the change in means of transmission of the language, of the codex to the screen, is not the most significant modification that has suffered through the times, because is only subjecting to the changes that the use of the new technology imposes to all the things; the opening of electronic texts if they revolutionize to a great extent to the reading, but I believe that for good, it has since it with attractive a special one for the new readers, because they are receiving of the knowledge through electronic means that facilitate the apprehension to them of the read thing.

These electronic means, in my opinion, do not come to replace the book like inheriting direct of the manuscript, [17] but they will extend the universe of readers, because in our days, is much more practitioner to accesar to an electronic display screen and enterarte of the past and recent events in a matter of minutes; that hoping to the edition of a book on the subject.

The book is the didactic means by nature and I create firmly that it will maintain that level, but cannot, nor must despise the advance that the technology raises to us. The universality of the language is possible by its continuous expression between the greater number of people, and I am convinced that the electronic means favor that universality.


The language like speech

Paul Ricoeur defines to the speech like the first unit of the language and the thought, [18] and at least explains like the interweaving of a name and a verb. Aristotle says the same in his treaty On the Interpretation. “ a name has a meaning and a verb has, besides a meaning, an indication of the time. Only its union produces a predicative nexus, that can be called logo, speech. ” [19]

These definitions pose a problem long ago: The students of the language have concentrated in the analysis of their structure and system and not with their use, philosophy of Ferdinand de Saussure, considered like “ father of linguistic. Nevertheless, this philosophy separates of the objective study of the language, since a message is arbitrary and contingent, whereas a code is systematic and obligatory for a speaking community of. [20]

Throughout our life, we emitted an endless ones of full messages of intentions and arbitrary to a great extent, since we combined the words to our will, it would dare to me to affirm that our knowledge on the language is poor, we used insofar as it to only solve our needs of communication, not very often worried to analyze the structure of our messages, measured the efficiency than tenth or wrote, in the answer or understanding of our receivers.

The language since speech has disappeared, because no longer appears like the mediation between minds and things. It constitutes a world in itself, within which each element only talks about elements of the same system, thanks to the interaction of oppositions and constituent differences of the system. The language no longer is treated as a form about life, but like a self-sufficient system of internal relations. [21]

Our language is an alive language, that is to say that any study exceeds she, it must include the use whom their speakers give him, to try to analyze it only by his structure of system, is in vain. The language is rich, insofar as its formal structure practices and is much, of the daily use that it has had at the different times, from its creation.

I conclude my test reaffirming: The language is the maximum creation of the man, because from him it represents the reality symbolically. A language is something alive, like the community uses that and varies developing it different changes through time and of the space.

And they are indeed these two elements: time and space, those that make of the analysis of the language a debilitating day and in many of the occasions, with a result of that so subjective analysis, as the same reality of practices those who it.

Poets, philosophers, sociologists and specialists in the different scientific and technological disciplines have accepted the challenge to hurgar in the long way that has followed the language from its creation.

I finalize saying: The communication and the articulated language exerted an influence in the evolution of the brain, therefore, the communication created the own man, and also thanks to the communication it appeared and it began to be developed to the society … our society.

… Because the language is creation and expression of the human thought.


Bibliography

1. - Jorge Luis Borges, COMPLETE WORKS III, Emece Editorial.
2. - Octavio Paz, the ARC AND the LIRA, Editorial Bottom of Economic Culture.
3. - Emmanuel Lévinas, OUTSIDE the SUBJECT, Caparrós Editorial
4. - Roland Barthes, DEGREE ZERO OF the WRITING, Editorial 21st century, 13ª. Edition.
5. - Roger Charter, SOCIETY AND WRITING IN the AVERAGE AGE
6. - Paul Ricoeur, THEORY OF the INTERPRETATION, Editorial 21st century

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[1] (Octavio Paz, “ the arc and the lira ”, P. 29)
[2] (Idem, p.29)
[3] (Idem, P. 30)
[4] (Idem, P. 30)
[5] (Jorge Luis Borges “ Seven nights ”, P. 254)
[6] (Idem, 254)
[7] (Octavio Paz, “ the arc and the lira ”, p.45)
[8] (Idem, p.37)
[9] (Emmanuel Lévinas, “ Outside the subject ”, P. 162)
[10] (Roland Barthes, ” “ the degree zero of the writing ” the work did not contain number of page)
[11] (Idem, Without page, already the work did not have her)
[12] (Idem, without page the work)
[13] (Copies of Ferdinand de Saussure., were not counted on the data of the work)
[14] (Idem)
[15] (Roger Chartiér, “ Of the Codex to the screen ”, p.249)
[16] (Idem, P. 255)
[17] (Idem, p.252)
[18] (Paul Ricoeur, “ the Language like speech ”, p.15)
[19] (Idem, p.15)
[20] (Idem, p.17)
[21] (Idem, p.20)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:45 am 
PHD From Del Rey University!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:08 am
Posts: 1498
Location: wriglytown
i was aware from the bibliography that josie was quoting sources, as you pointed out pro. i was calling him to the carpet for calling you on the length of your post(s) which many enjoy, when he made a short novel in our ongoing battle of espanol vs hable porquito

_________________
But mama, that's where the fun is

//\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:40 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!

Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:04 pm
Posts: 2667
OK :D

_________________
"Run silent, run deep"
Spunk glazed Chicas are the building blocks of the universe!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:46 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:18 pm
Posts: 4993
Location: The Dark
I hereby break forum rules:

J0sie, Prolijo and/or Mr.Black....

Phuck you.

:evil: :mad: :evil:

You three have conspired to waste nearly 40 minutes of my precious life.

Take it outside, assholes. I am not joking. Screw the emoticons.

You three, all of you need real lives.

Why did I wade through all this shit? Because I found the original topic both interesting and entertaining.

Now, not so much.

Respectfully,

_________________
Pura Vulva! Wandering through the dark, I am El Ciego.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:25 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:08 am
Posts: 1498
Location: wriglytown
my contribution should have cost you 48 seconds :P

_________________
But mama, that's where the fun is

//\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:41 am 
Not a Newbie I just don't post much!

Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:38 am
Posts: 149
Osgood wrote:
They cannot get pu*sy easy in the states,so they have to fly thousands of miles to get it easy,the local language and social skills are not needed,they just need a few dollars in there pocket and they then think there are rockstars..wait a minute ,i,m talking about myself again :wink:


This is a complete myth. I have my pick of the chicks here pretty much. So does my wingman that posts here.

The problem is that they all think they are models (here in tpa), haven't read a book in the last decade, and are a hassle to deal with. They may bring T&A to the table, but not much else. I recently was sleeping with a 21 year old college girl. The girl was such a f'ng idiot that I just couldn't listen to her yapping anymore. Why would i listen to her dronning on and on when I could just take vacation every 4 months and just get it all out of my system? Then I can come back home and concentrate on building my business and not screwing around chasing these empty soul sucking trampa trollops.

Imagine how much more productive the younger guys in their prime earning years are when they DON'T have to chase p*ssy anymore. Imagine the money they'd save. Furthermore, imagine how much power they'd gain by being able to laugh in the face of a gringa who wants him to display an intricate and expensive dog and pony show before giving up the beaver.

The bottom line is- If men were getting enough affection and attention at home, they wouldn't have to fly to CR. That is why you see so many TLN's, which i've never understood. Why the hell do you want them to stay? To cuddle? This proves my theory that American men are sick of AW and their crap and are looking for it elsewhere.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:46 am 
Not a Newbie I just don't post much!

Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:38 am
Posts: 149
Osgood wrote:
They cannot get pu*sy easy in the states,so they have to fly thousands of miles to get it easy,the local language and social skills are not needed,they just need a few dollars in there pocket and they then think there are rockstars..wait a minute ,i,m talking about myself again


It is important to note that the above is the typical shaming language gringas will use on you to keep you and your WALLET right here safe and sound in the United States. I hear some American guys saying that sometimes, and it kinda irks me that they subscribe to this shaming tactic. Afterall, the diamond, bridal, and wedding, and divorce industries all depend on you taking the bait and marrying (this requires your wallet and mind to stay parked safely at home where you can be manipulated until the day you walk down the isle)

Just sayin'.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:57 am 
PHD From Del Rey University!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:30 am
Posts: 8005
Location: Where Am I ???
Skirtchsnbadguy wrote:
...That is why you see so many TLN's, which i've never understood. Why the hell do you want them to stay? To cuddle?

Skirt,

Different strokes! :shock:

Why do you see so many TLN's ? Maybe some guys like to have a beautiful, naked chica lying next to them in bed. Plus, depending if she's into you or not, it can be a great thing to spend the night in the company of a hot & horny latina.

Some guys like to hop and pop. And the various MP's are great for this. But if you've got some history with a chica, maybe there's a little chemistry between you two - and you take her to dinner, maybe a movie or dancing afterwards, have a few cocktails and then take her back to your hotel for a TLN, it can make for an off-the-charts experience (or two or three)! And I'm pretty sure that during that TLN, most guys will have 2, 3, 4 or more sessions with the chica before letting her go.

When it comes to mongering, there's no "one size fits all". But if you've ever had a great TLN with a chica, you'd understand why some like it so much! My dos baht !

MG :roll:

_________________
You ALWAYS have an option ....... "NEXT" !!! :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:10 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:56 am
Posts: 3985
Location: Tampa, FL
I agree that Osgood's quote was an overly broad generalization. Its not that guys necessarily can't get pu*sy easily in the US. Its that they can't get the type of pu*sy they want.

That said, and playing the devil's advocate, I'm not sure I understand or agree with your reasoning either.
Skirtchsnbadguy wrote:
The problem is that they all think they are models (here in tpa), haven't read a book in the last decade, and are a hassle to deal with. They may bring T&A to the table, but not much else.
Couldn't that description also be applied to the chica's we go after in CR just as well? They all think they're models. They certainly haven't read any books. They can be a hassle to deal with in their own way too. And with young chicas, T&A is really their main appeal. The chicas may be attractive, sometimes even sweet, but none of them could exactly be described as brain surgeons or rocket scientists and most of them are just as much f'ng idiots as any gringa. And as for yapping, the only difference is the language. Women are women everywhere.

The real difference is that with the BM chicas, you can just cut to the chase and for a fairly modest amount get down and dirty within hours or even minutes of meeting them AND with the BM chicas we "pay them to leave" and don't have to listen to them or stick around when they get tiresome.

With young gringas, even if you're young yourself (ie "age-appropriate"), you have to exercise your game. That means spending time reeling them in and sometimes a lot of money. And, if you want to maintain an ongoing relationship with them, it means spending "emotional capital" (handholding, listening to them bitch, etc.) and sometimes a lot of money.

The other possible difference that you failed to mention but which actually might be the most important one is that gringas can be (and often are)incredibly self-centered. Everything is about them, serving them, keeping them happy. I think this is partly a wider cultural phenomenon that has been going on for some time in the US with the Me-Decade of the 70's, followed by the instant gratification of the MTV generation, but has reached its zenith with the Gen Y. Not to make this entirely a Generation Gap thing.

It is also another symptom of the overcompensation and double standards that have come with feminism in the US. Women insist on (and deserve equal rights) but they don't want to give up the benefits that came with being the "fairer sex". Most US men have become pussywhipped wimps, on the one hand fearful of being politically incorrect and on the other still willing to do whatever they need to get that pu*sy. In the US, gringas have men wrapped around their little finger and as a result expect any guy they meet to put up with their shit. Ironically, despite their description of their purported ideal man, it is often the guys that DON'T put up with their shit who get their most attention. I suppose it is because of the challenge or maybe it is because of the simple intrigue of a guy who doesn't meekly fall for their "charms". But, whatever it is, it doesn't change the fact that all such women are very high maintenance and thus the appeal of much simpler relationships south of the border.
Skirtchsnbadguy wrote:
... Why would i listen to her dronning on and on when I could just take vacation every 4 months and just get it all out of my system? Then I can come back home and concentrate on building my business and not screwing around chasing these empty soul sucking trampa trollops. ...
That's fine in theory IF bingeing on chicas for a week will really relieve you of all desire to find an outlet for your sexual urges during the long 4 months between trips. I'm guessing you still wind up chasing skirts between trips. The only difference is that you put up with less shit and are more choosey who you bother with because you know that there are simpler (and cheaper) alternatives waiting for you.
Skirtchsnbadguy wrote:
... Imagine how much more productive the younger guys in their prime earning years are when they DON'T have to chase p*ssy anymore. Imagine the money they'd save.
Screw younger guys. You maybe building your career in your younger years but your prime earning years actually come much later and its exactly because older guys have more money to spend that there are so many more of us that can take these frequent (and costly) trips to CR. Imagine how much ANY of us would save if it weren't for our biological urges - not just in terms of what we used to spend in the US, but also what we still spend in CR and other places.
Skirtchsnbadguy wrote:
... Furthermore, imagine how much power they'd gain by being able to laugh in the face of a gringa who wants him to display an intricate and expensive dog and pony show before giving up the beaver.

The bottom line is- If men were getting enough affection and attention at home, they wouldn't have to fly to CR. That is why you see so many TLN's, which i've never understood. Why the hell do you want them to stay? To cuddle? This proves my theory that American men are sick of AW and their crap and are looking for it elsewhere.
AGREED 1001%.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:36 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:59 pm
Posts: 1137
Location: fort lauderdale
Skirtchsnbadguy wrote:
Osgood wrote:
They cannot get pu*sy easy in the states,so they have to fly thousands of miles to get it easy,the local language and social skills are not needed,they just need a few dollars in there pocket and they then think there are rockstars..wait a minute ,i,m talking about myself again
(Read the last bit,i'm talking about myself again....we are talking about mongers,how easy can you do that in tampa.it's not legal so it's not easy.

It is important to note that the above is the typical shaming language gringas will use on you to keep you and your WALLET right here safe and sound in the United States. I hear some American guys saying that sometimes, and it kinda irks me that they subscribe to this shaming tactic. Afterall, the diamond, bridal, and wedding, and divorce industries all depend on you taking the bait and marrying (this requires your wallet and mind to stay parked safely at home where you can be manipulated until the day you walk down the isle)......(.now if you are saying i,m a gringa)....fair enough...i

Just sayin'.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 63 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:



Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group