www.CostaRicaTicas.com

Hello,
I'm thinking of either going to Costa Rica (which I've been to once before already and enjoyed despite not pursuing any MPs), Ecuador, or Peru for a two week trip. I don't speak much Spanish at all but am in the mood for an exotic travel destination where I can have a good time on a budget. P4P would not necessarily be my entire focus for the trip although I would not want to take it off the table entirely as an option. Which of the three countries I mentioned do you think would be the best destination for me?

Lima Peru is a nice city and very cost effective. Going from there to Macchu Piccu is a world class experience, although flying from Lima to Cusco adds to the cost of your trip. That said, the Peruvian coast is not nearly as pretty as parts of CR out along the beaches, volcanos and mountains.

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Providing humanitarian assistance to self employed chicas, one cash grant at a time.

I second Peru. San Jose is a rat hole compared to Lima. The weather will not be warm this time of year though.

Umm, you might be surprised to find out there's more to CR than SJO.

Yeah there's the garbage in the rivers and turds in the ocean.

There are 2 good Boards about Peru: 1 is general tourist/ex-pat; the other like this is monger and general tourist oriented.
www.expatperu.com
http://perutops.com/foro-relax/forumdisplay.php?f=56
And of course the tried-and-true www.TripAdvisor.com

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"A man accustomed to hear only the echo of his own sentiments, soon bars all the common avenues of delight, and has no part in the general gratification of mankind"--Dr. Johnson
"Amen, brother"-ED

Before some of us write off CR or completely disregard Ecuador, I'd like to play the devil's advocate. First how about some full disclosure so we can more fairly evaluate some of the opinions offered so far. We all know you guys have been to CR, how many have SERIOUSLY explored the country beyond SJ, Jaco and perhaps a short visit to one or 2 places other than that is another question. I know El V. made his first visit to Peru about a year ago and he also made it to Machu Picchu at that time, but I believe he is only in the planning stage for a trip to Ecuador at this time (though I could be wrong). As for U2BT, we know nothing about his context other than that he thinks SJ is all there is to CR. And I have some questions for both of them. When they go on mongering trips what percentage of their time do they actually spend on activities other than mongering as other things seem to be the primary focus for Think Freud?. I'll be honest, I haven't actually been to either country though I have read up on both from both a mongering and non-mongering perspective.

Lima may seem like "a nice city" to El V, or at least nicer than SJ, but most cities have their good and bad points and Lima is no exception. It may have nice areas (as does the SJ area too), but, like all 3rd world capitals, it also has a LOT of very bad and poor areas. As a city of 8M (nearly 20 times larger than SJ), it is bound to have more nice areas but it also has even more crowds, gigantic traffic jams, horrendous smog and total crime. It supposedly has a nice historical area downtown but much of its colonial buildings are gone. Much of the year it is beset by a depressing coastal fog known as garúa. It is near the coast but the beaches near Lima are supposed to be so bad that only Limenas bother to swim there. And, while Lima may be very cost effective once you're there relative to CR, it doesn't seem to have any real cost advantage over Ecuador.

Peru DOES also have Machu Picchu which IS considered a world class experience, but the cost of getting there (unless you want to take a 20 hour bus trip) will add considerably on to the cost of your trip, both to fly to Cuzco and the cost of the train and park admission for the day, which has been going up DRAMATICALLY recently. And that assumes you'll even be able to get on the train to get there since there have been labor protests recently which have interrupted the service (http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/wireStory?id=7689630) (and there is no other way to get there unless you want to pay $500 or more for a 4 day hiking trek through the mountains).

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What about Ecuador? First, let's compare the capital. Quito is larger than SJ but still only about 1/5 the size of Lima AND it has retained much more of its colonial charm. In fact, UNLIKE Lima or SJ, Quito has been declared a UNESCO World Heritage Site. It can be cloudy in Quito during much of the year (like SJ) but being high up in the mountains (higher than SJ) it can be a lot more cool and comfortable than hot and humid coastal locations in that part of the world (such as Jaco, Cartagena and Lima). Quito is also considered by most to be the best place in all of South America to take Spanish classes (much more so than even Lima). Prices are cheap and Ecuadorian Spanish (at least in Quito) is spoken relatively slowly and enunciated clearly. It may cost a LITTLE bit more to fly to Quito than it costs to fly to Lima but, as near as I can tell, the cost of P4P is actually even a little less in Quito which may more than make up for it AND because there are more places of non-mongering interest nearby to Quito, you won't need to spend a lot of money for a plane ticket to other parts of the country.

Besides, if you're prepared to spring for more airfare then Peru is not the only country in that part of the world that has a "world class experience". Or haven't you heard of the Galapagos? Unfortunately, it will cost you even more to visit them from Quito than it costs to go to Machu Picchu from Lima. Fortunately, there is a lot more to see and do CLOSE to the capital of Quito than there is in Peru near Lima. For example, within a 2-3 hour (or less) bus drive from Quito you have several interesting native markets (Otovalo, Peguche, Pujili, Saquisili just to name a few), hot springs at Papalacta, Mitad del Mundo (where you can stand in 2 hemispheres), the nearly 20K ft tall Cotopaxi Volcano (where from the visitors parking lot you can hike up a short distance to walk on a glacier or take a thrilling gravity assisted bike ride down to the bottom) and the Quilotoa Loop (with its quaint Andean villages, scenic heights and llamas). Admittedly, unlike Lima, there aren't any really nearby beaches, but why would you want to go to a sucky central Peru beach anyway? From Quito, you can take a night bus to a picture postcard perfect beach known as Los Frailes and in the same area you can visit Machala National Park and for just a few bucks take a guided boat ride tour out to Isla la Plata, which is known as "the Poorman's Galapagos" and where you can see a lot of the wildlife that exists out on the much more expensive islands (e.g. blue-footed boobies, frigate birds, etc.). Return to Quito and 6 hours in the other direction to Tena and you're in the Oriente where you can catch a boat out to a Jungle Lodge for a few days Amazon Experience. Peru may have more dramatic pre-colombian ruins, but Ecuador has much more of everything in just a relatively small area. In fact, in travel circles it is sometimes referred to as South America in miniature. Peru does get a lot more press because of Machu Picchu, but Ecuador is South America's largely undiscovered secret and, IMHO, the relative lack of other gringo tourists is actually one of its biggest attractions.

If you've been to CR but haven't really been to the further corners of the country yet, then I might give CR another chance. There is a lot to see and do in CR in more than just one trip and most of the country is less than half a day's trip from SJ. It may cost a little more there for many things but that is partially offset by the much lower airfare. If you've been to CR for a few trips and really HAVE seen most of its major sights (Arenal, Monteverde, Manuel Antonio, Drake Bay, Puerto Viejo, Tortuguero, Montezuma, etc.), then you probably should try someplace else. If Machu Picchu is on your knock list, you might want to go before it is completely overrun by tourists. Then again, with recent labor unrest in the area, now may not be the best time to go there. If you're not going to MP or don't want to chance plunking a deposit down on a place you might not be able to get to or would rather go someplace with more to do and see right near the capital or would just want to go someplace with a greater variety of things to try in a relatively short period of time so you can decide better what type of place you'd like to go to next, then maybe Ecuador is really more the place you should be checking out.

"Blue-footed boobies" indeed. Next time I come to a Tampa chapter meeting. Brother Prolijo, you best put a microfiber screenwipe in my hand, to clean the screen. And then there's the "blue-rinse boobies" so common in Florida. But seriously we're talking about monger destinations so as important as your gen tourist info was, got some specifics as to how and where this Brother can get laid? The fog in Lima doesn't even compare to the fog in my head. At least not about this. So really compared with the known destinations of CR and Peru, how does Quito equate? Remember, he said primarily, not exclusively.

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"A man accustomed to hear only the echo of his own sentiments, soon bars all the common avenues of delight, and has no part in the general gratification of mankind"--Dr. Johnson
"Amen, brother"-ED

excellent argument for ecuador.

as far as the Galapagos, there is a movement underway to discourage or cut way, way back the number of visitors and their "trash and turds" which are ruining the waters and environment.

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The difference between a Sea Story and a Fairy Tale is that a Fairy Tale starts out 'Once Upon a Time..' and a Sea Story starts out 'This is no Shit...'

(export version only, some restrictions may apply, some assembly required, not valid where the sun don't shine...

if you live in the states of Poverty, Darkness or anywhere outside of The Blessings of Civilization Trust, Inc...other rules may apply)

THe weather is perfect right now.
Evening low of 64, daytime high of 71.

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It is cheaper to pay now and get it over with.
It is also easier to get them to leave.

As usual, Prolijo has done excellent research nd makes many valid points. As for CR, over half of my trips involve really getting out into the countryside. I've been most every in CR except for the Oso Peninsula, but will probably go there too at some point. But, the point is that the legitimate tourism places in CR are well worth doing. Even if you are in the gulch, great day trips abound.

Points made about Lima are also accurate. The fog there is weird, the ocean looks uninviting and cold etc. Lima is also not blesses with the greenery that we take for granted in CR, but it is is still a very fun city.

I have not done Ecuador yet, but will spend two weeks there in January getting to know Quito and of course the Galapagos as well. I'm always in the process of planning about two trips out and the research and planning is half the fun.

I am one who really keeps a bucket list of destinations and try to knock one biggie off the list every every year. Galapagos is near the very top and Macchu Picchu was as well.

_________________
Providing humanitarian assistance to self employed chicas, one cash grant at a time.

As U2BT already pointed out, it is winter right now south of the equator in places like Lima, so the weather will be coolest this time of the year. Usually it is much warmer. Also, the garúa season is just getting started and will run through the rest of the year.

Cally,
In a similar way, they also place limits on the numbers of simultaneous visitors at Manuel Antonio and Monteverde in CR and at Machu Picchu in Peru and we've seen how effective that has been at curbing development in the areas around those places. One thing it does do is force up prices even faster and higher than they had been. Its certainly better than allowing completely unfettered development but also makes the experience more expensive and difficult to do for everyone. In the case of Machu Pichu, it still gets probably too crowded. If you really want to TRY to experience it without the day tour crowds from Cuzco (3 hrs away by train) you should stay overnight at Pueblo Machu Picchu (fka Aquas Caliente) so that you can stay there after the crowds leave at 3-4PM or get there before they arrive around 10-11AM. Unfortunately, the town of Aquas Caliente itself doesn't have much to do apart from some hot springs at the far end of town, ugly cinderblock construction and little nightlife (though that might have changed somewhat with all the recent rapid development), but if you stay there you can get up early for the 20 minute bus ride to the ruins and catch the sunrise over it around 7AM in relative solitude.

JB,
I really didn't make the name of that bird up, but I knew that some of you would like it. In Tampa, the really rare, cool and colorful birds are the Roseate Spoonbills, but that is not nearly as exciting sounding. I realize most guys are MUCH more interested in how to get laid in the different places, but I was trying to answer Think Freud's question more specifically. I covered mainly just general tourist info because a) Think Freud indicated that P4P was NOT necessarily his primary focus and b) it IS the primary focus of most everybody else around here many of whom could do a far better job at covering it than I ever could. Actually, I really just barely scratched the surface even on the non-P4P aspects of each country. I am Prolijo after all. But, since you asked, I'll at least offer you a few bare basics that might help your search for much deeper information.

To be fair Lima probably IS a much better PURE mongering destination. It is a MUCH larger metropolitan area and it sees far more western tourists passing through it, and monger tourists are no exception. I should re-emphasize, MY answer was geared towards individuals who are MORE interested in the NON-monger stuff but also wanted at least some decent P4P available. And while Quito MIGHT not be as good (arguably) on JUST the P4P front, IMHO it has much more to offer in other areas while still having PLENTY of affordable quality P4P to help fill the empty hours.

For Lima, there are several key places that you should probably look up. First, you should check out the Google Monger Map. That map lists ~35 spa/saunas/banos turcos (or whatever other names they go by) so you can bet those are a big part of the daytime (or evening?) P4P entertainment. They're ROUGHLY the equivalent of SJ MP's. Like the MP's on our map, I'm sure there are many more in Lima that aren't listed and, also like the MP's of SJ, that the cost and quality varies a lot between spas and within each spa between visits (depending on who is working there at the time). The map also lists about a dozen nightclubs and here again, the cost and quality can vary considerably from the high quality but ridiculously pricey high-end to the much more basic but affordable locally oriented places. Lima also has its ROUGH Blue Marlin equivalent but it is NOT in one big bar but rather a series of bars and restaurants in a tourist-oriented section of Miraflores known as Pizza Alley. There you can pick-up independent pro or semi-pro chicas (or they pick-up you) that you can bring back to your hotel or apartment for some negotiated amount. On top of this, unlike SJ, you can also pick up available women who will approach you on the street.

A little more about these various options. First the spas, I'll relate 2 stories I've read. The first is about a more upscale place (actually a chain) called Relax & Vida (or R&V). The 2nd is about the more typical lower end saunas.

At R&V 2, you pay ~80 soles to get in (~3 soles/$). From there you can pick out from one of several lovely female attendents who you can chat up and get to know before making your offer to go back in a room (for an additional propina of ~60). That gets you a nice rubdown (though not quite a professional massage) with a HE, usually a HJ/BBBJ or russian tit job though f/s is not unheard of (not sure of what the additional tip is for that). The room session lasts about an hour but they don't rush you out the door and afterwards you can go with your little honey to the steam or sauna where she can sponge you off and make out a little more before you get dressed and leave. Close to $50 for not quite f/s may seem pricey for Peru but this is where you go for a GFE pampering session with a really hot chica. For more down and dirty get to the point full service sex you can go to the lower end places.

At the lower end, the prices were a lot less but the descriptions I read did not sound so enticing. First, if costs more like just 25 soles to get in. Like the upscale place they have saunas, steam rooms, jacuzzis etc. but for the clients to use (think sort of like a like a YMCA). The attendants, who can be attractive but not the real knockouts of the upscale place, all wait in a special area all dressed in simple white uniforms waiting for you to approach dressed in your towel (I don't normally have any problem with my own nudity unless everyone else in the room has on their clothes, call me strange that way). Anyway, you simply make your pick and go with your girl to her room. The tip comes to more than R&V at ~250 soles but that gets you cbj & cfs. The chica in this report tried to upsell the guy but at close to $100 already for somewhat lackluster service, I think he was already overpaying.

Most of the spas seem to be in a small area around the bus station in Central Lima, which is also a hotspot for many of the clubs, SW's out on the street including the usual assortment of druggies and trannies. This is NOT a nice area to hang out in after dark, so if you go to any of the clubs around there after dark take a cabs which run ~$2-3 to/from the Miraflores area

Which brings me to the clubs. I haven't researched the higher end places since nightclubs are usually not my thing but one lower end place that seems to get a lot of mention is Trocadero's which is actually out near the airport (~20 sole cab fare each way from Miraflores). It is actually 2 seperate huge clubs right next to each other, each with a 100 or more rooms and the women to go with it. Entrada is another 20 soles on weekends (a little less during the week. Hours are midafternoon to only about 10PM so I'm not sure this really qualifies as a nightclub, more like a humongous brotherl that closes early. Chicas cost another 20 soles (+/- 5 soles) for 15-30 minutes (depending on how long you take, no rush). Quality is variable from hideous to fairly nice, young/old, flaca/gorda, dark/light. With that many women there has to be a little something for everybody. But be forewarned the place is definitely a very rough around the edges local place, where little if any english is spoken.

Lastly, the pick-ups. The independents in the "gringo market areas" or Miraflores go for anywhere between 70-150 soles (~$25-50). That should get you at least an hour of GFE sex but I don't think most of these girls will rush out afterwards unless you want them to (but DO be clear you meant SOLES and not DOLLARS when you negotiate). One last option is to call an escort. A local guy named David33 who operates on ISG (and probably PeruTops) has quality chicas he can fix you up with for something like 200-300.

Oh yeah, as far as hotels, the chica friendly one most often recommended is the Maria Luisa Hotel, but the Las Palmas Hotel also gets good reviews (both located in Miraflores).

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In Quito, the daytime scene revolves more around what are called Chongos. Unfortunately, lately the authorities have been pulling the same shit with some of the chongos in Quito that the SJ authorities had been doing with the MP's in SJ (cracking down on them for handicap ramps, emergency exits, etc.). On the plus side the prices run on the order of like $7. The nightscene features clubs like Nitekats, Café Rojo, Mango's, Club 155.

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I'll try in relaying more of what I've learned about the Quito P4P scene a little later, but I have to get back to work for now so will just post what I've written so far. Also, bear in mind, I'm just repeating here what I've read. HOPEFULLY, it is a more or less accurate and a fair representation of the scene. HOWEVER, if anyone who has actually been there has a different take on the scene, PLEASE PLEASE correct me.

I think its great that you've explored far and wide and, to be fair, the Oso Peninsula is a pretty long trip, so you can certainly be excused for skipping that. The problem that I think SOME OTHER guys have is that they've made multiple trips to CR and may have gotten out of the Gulch but have ONLY done day trips out of SJ or perhaps gone to Jaco (because they don't want to spend even 1 night away from P4P) and think that somehow qualifies as really "seeing" CR. It certainly qualifies as seeing MORE than just the Gulch and should be commended for that, but it still unduly restricts what they can see. Then after just a few trips to CR they've done most or all of the better SJ day trips and they think that means there's nothing else to see or do. It may be if they don't want to leave SJ for more than a day, but in reality CR has a lot more to offer than that.

I have no idea how much of CR Think Freud has seen. Maybe quite a bit. I do know he didn't spend all his days knocking on MP doors so I know he probably at least did several day tours. If he's really done more than that, I agree he should really follow his instincts and try someplace new and more exotic. OTOH, before he moves on beyond CR completely, he should also ask himself if he's really "played it out".

Am I less than for not seeing more of CR than SJ, or is it beacuse not even wanting to see more?

For me, when I travel it is not for sight seeing. Does the train from Anahiem to San Diego, and the trolley to TJ count? It travels for a great deal along the edge of the Pacific, with wonderful sunset views when returning.

I live in California, and if I chose to be an eco-tourist I could spend many vacations just seeing the natural beauty of this state. America has so much that I could never see in a lifetime. In our state you can snow ski, and surf on the same day. There are mountains, deserts, beaches, Redwood trees that are hundreds of years old, the Monterey Coast, the San Francisco area, Hearst Castle, the wine country, the Newport Coast, and places like Del Mar/La Jolla, just to name a few spots. Going to Rodeo Dr. for a day can be a treat. Want to see a movie star, it is quite possible.

I only have seven days at a time. Do I think I have seen CR, no. Do I feel that I am missing anything, not at this point in my life. If I was living there I would see the country at length. With my seven days I want to explore as many ladies as possible. I think its great for those that wish to spend their time exploring the flora and fauna. To me, it just means less mongers in SJ during the day.

Before writing this I put on my asbestos shorts, so let the flaming begin.

Health & happiness.....

Steve - Santas Bro

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It's not the size of the wand that put the rabbit in the hat, it's the magic in it!!!

No flames, Steve. That's you (and probably a lot of other guys around here) and if that is what you look for in your travels and it makes you happy, who is to say you're wrong? In fact, has anyone even suggested there was anything wrong with that approach FOR YOU in this thread, at least anymore than you just suggested there might be something wrong with the approach of guys who enjoy mixing traditional tourism with their mongering more than you do. If all you want to do is P4P 24/7 than CR is a perfectly fine place to go (although arguably there are much better places than even that for purely P4P). So keep going there (or stay there) if you want. No one here has any problem with whatever you want to do.

HOWEVER, this thread is NOT ABOUT you or guys like you. It is addressed to Think Freud's question and HE is a guy who DOES look for those other things when he travels. Of course, you can do eco-tourism back in the states too, but it doesn't offer the "bonus options" that traveling to these other places we've been discussing offer (and last I checked no ancient mountaintop ruins or native markets or, in the case of California, beaches you don't need a wet suit to go swimming in). SOME guys DO look for a blend of things to do when they travel. For guys like THAT, CR is still a perfectly fine place to visit where they can enjoy BOTH the P4P AND the many other wonderful things the country has to offer ... up to a point. At some point, if you've spent any significant time outside the Gulch, you've seen just about all the most interesting parts of CR. At that point you can either continue to visit CR and just focus on the P4P, continue to visit CR primarily for P4P but also visit the more obscure parts of CR OR you can move on to ANOTHER country that ALSO has great P4P, even arguably better P4P than CR, as well as other NEW MAJOR attractions that hold more interest than browsing through the bottom of the barrel of CR attractions.