www.CostaRicaTicas.com

Sorry I should have followed up my report on just two casinos adhering to the decree by closing from 5am to 3pm. A short time after I posted,ALL casinos closed during these hours. It may be the alltime dumbest law change that I have seen in the 5 1/2 years that I have been living here. (and there have been a lot) Ms.Chinchilla's response is that it will "save the Ch*ldren" since prostitues hang around the casinos. HUH?? The ONLY casino I know of that has working chicas hanging around is the DR and they aren't there because of the casino. I still want to know if she is planning on feeding the hundreds of hard working casino employees that SHE PUT OUT OF WORK.

Well here we go again. today's www.amcostarica.com has an article on page 2 about how the government needs more income so they are considering increasing the taxes on the casinos. Part of these taxes may be based on the operating hours......this after they (Laura Chinchilla) closed the Casinos for 10 hours a day. If it wasn't for the chicas,I think I would have to seriously think about moving.I really am having a problem dealing with the stupidity in CR. Well maybe this will help them come to their senses.

Guess I will have to spend more time in Dominican Republic

Actually, the way I read it, this might mean that they would now allow some casinos to stay open 24 hours per day IF they pay the higher fee. Here is the relevant part of the article:
I think the last part of that quote is particularly relevant. I really doubt this tax will make them anywhere close to as much as they think it will. If this tax passes, it will probably mean that the less profitable casinos will reduce their taxes by reducing their hours and/or reducing the amount of slot machines they have or, in the most extreme (and marginal) cases, possibly shutting down altogether. OTOH, for the busier more profitable casinos, such as the HDR, I don't think the extra $1446 will make that much difference AND it might be well worth the extra $1491 to EXPAND BACK to staying open between 5am and 3pm. To the degree any casino can't handle the extra ~$50/day, they probably shouldn't be open during those hours any way. This is particularly true of places like the HDR when you consider how much they're ALREADY paying in license fees for all those slots machines (I'm guessing at least 2-3 dozen ) at $175 a pop. In that respect, this won't be as good for them as it was staying open 24 hours a day for just $560/mo (plus slot fees), but if their casino is making even half as much of what I think they are, the HDR will still be able to make more than enough money after taxes for it to be worthwhile to operate 14 hours a day or even expand their hours back up to 24.

The MOST likely result of all this is that they'll take out some of those slots since it is rare that anywhere close to all of them are being used at one time anyway. Many slots may not even clear $1101/mo and the probably close to the same amount of money would still be wagered, just on fewer machines. But who really cares about the slots anyway besides some of the chicas. Besides that, the chicas with the real slot addictions are often the ones to avoid.

Admittedly, the impact on the sleepier casinos is another matter. As I said before, this MIGHT cause SOME to shut down altogether (probably ones that few of us ever go to). However, if those places are so marginal they can't handle these increased fees, then they probably shouldn't be operating to begin with. AND, beyond that, if they're really that slow, probably few gamblers will be at all impacted. Besides, whatever few gamblers they did have will likely simply shift their activities over to one of the other casinos that remain, thereby increasing those casinos' businesses (just as most have simply shifted the hours that they gamble in response to the changes in hours of operation). And I'm sure the recreational occasional gamblers who don't wind up gambling elsewhere will still find other places in CR to spend their money during their trips. Admittedly, some hardcore gamblers will go (or move) to more gambler friendly countries, but I don't think there are really that many people who come to CR JUST for gambling such that not being able to gamble before 3PM is really that huge a deal.

And to the extent that SOME places might close down or curtail their hours, the DEMAND for gambling is unchanged. To the degree that some places will cut back or close because of this, the demand will have to go elsewhere (or elsewhen). That means that instead of seeing so many casinos with dealers sitting idle or at best dealing to just 1-2 gamblers, the casinos will have to man those tables fewer hours per day and will see more gamblers at each table during the remaining hours that they are open. How many of you gamblers out there really did that much gambling between the hours of 5am and 3pm and how many of you that did haven't just shifted your gambling to later in the day? I'm guessing the answer is very few to both questions. All that translates to greater operating efficiency for the casinos that remain which might more than offset any increase in taxes they have to pay. The inconveniences of possibly having to choose from a smaller list of casinos, having to wait until midafternoon to gamble and having to sit at slightly more crowded tables to gamble seem like they'd be very slight to me.

The only real losers in all this are the casino employees who might be put out of work. Casinos that WERE doing marginal business between 5am and 3pm WEREN'T staffing their casinos that heavily during those hours anyway so the numbers of casino employees that were really seriously effected were something substantially less than 1/3. To the extent this has just shifted demand to later in the day, SOME of those employees have been able to just shift their hours as well. To the extent that SOME casinos MIGHT shut down completely, demand will mostly shift to the remaining casinos and some of the evening employees who MIGHT be put out of work will shift their employment over to those remaining casinos as well. To the extent that some of those employees won't be able to shift their working hours or place of work, well that's unfortunate but them's the breaks. This isn't ICE where anybody owes them a "make-work" position where they can sit around idle most of the time and get paid for it. I really don't think the real number of workers who will lose their jobs because of this are really as significant a Bob is suggesting.

Now I know Bob is going to disagree with me, so let's hear it.

Can I just respond to Pro's essay,one paragragh at a time? I started reading his Master's thesis but I fell asleep twice and gave up. Perhaps my friend Prolijo could put it on disc and I can listen to it when I go to bed at night. The late William F Buckley wouldn't have THIS MUCH to say on the subject.

For starters I will say that the casinos have ALREADY reduced their staffs considerably to reflect the reduction of 10 hours a day. It IS possible that these changes in taxation will make the Govt. realise the errors of their (or Chinchilla"s) ways and allow the casinos to open more hours.

More later when I have the time and strength.

Try some Diacort I hear it puts a bit of zip in your step

whew....I just read Prolijo's entire report. I belive that the option of 24 hours was what they were considering BEFORE the Presidential decree limiting their hours to 14,was enacted. That decree would have to be overturned before the option of increased hours would be an option. my point here is the stupidity of the Legislature for considering raising the taxes on casinos AFTER forcing them to reduce there hours and thus their profits. Also,as far as job losses are concerned the latest estimates and that several hundred people are NOW jobless because of "Dear ole Laura".This info comes from casino owners and managers.

Hope this helps Pro

VB,
You won't get any debate from me about the stupidity of the Legislature or "Dear ole Laura". Whether I misread the part about this automatically changing the recent restrictions on hours or not, the proposed changes still reflect a continued inconsistency with the country's casino policies. As much as the policies themselves, the uncertainties about where exactly the country is going with all this must make it hard for casino mgmt to plan and conduct business. No sooner were the adjusting to the last decree, now they face this. What makes it even worse from the perspective of the greedy legislature is that all these grand plans of theirs probably won't bring in the tax revenues they figure it will if the casinos reduce what they do, as you fear they will, in order to minimize their tax burden.

As for the info that comes from the casino owners and managers, I wouldn't be so sure of the accuracy of that either. I suspect those figures are inflated somewhat as part of political posturing to try and get the hours decree reversed (and this tax proposal stopped) since, whatever the real effect, these are not policies that side particularly likes.

Obviously, I'm not nearly as plugged into the gambling scene in CR as you are, but I do know that whenever I pass through casinos like the HDR EARLY in the day there is rarely much gambling activity going on. Of course, slot machines are a fixed cost so naturally casino operators want those running 24/7 because even a little action during off hours goes directly to the bottom line. The tables are another story. Again, I have no idea of the exact profitability of the tables during those hours but they can't be nearly as great as they are later in the day and the casino employees that work during those hours represent a variable cost to management. I strongly suspect that most of the GAMBLERS that used to play that shift, now take the money they would have wagered then and just gamble it later in the day. Unfortunately, that is probably offset by the fact that overall gambling is down like everything else in the economy. However, ceteris parabus, IF the casinos capture later in the day all or most of the income that they'd have made in the morning and that enables them to reduce their variable costs (aka the casino workers who sit around most of the morning waiting for a gringo to sit at their table) they might actually wind up making MORE profit on the tables than they would have otherwise.

As I said in my last post that the only definite losers in all this are the casino employees that worked the early shift. Whether the workers on that shift amounts to "several hundred" I don't know. I also don't know how much the casinos total business is off because of the recent decree or how much is really due to the weakness of the overall economy. However, as in so many other areas in CR, I DO know that it would certainly be much more convenient and useful for casino owners to blame it ENTIRELY on the hours restrictions which they oppose.

Try answering these questions honestly just for yourself:
1) How often did you gamble before 3PM before as opposed to after 3PM?
2) To the extent your preferred gambling hours was before 3PM, how much of that was because the tables are so much more uncrowded at those times?
3) To the extent you used to gamble before 3PM, do you now just spend more hours gambling after 3PM than you used to?
4) Has the total amount of dollars that you gamble with per day gone down because of the restricted hours or do you just gamble more later?
5) Or, if the total amount of business you give the various casinos has changed, is it for other reasons (e.g. higher expenses and inflation elsewhere forcing you to change your gambling budget or, in the case of non-expats, make fewer and shorter trips)?
6) Has any one here really gone to other destinations instead of CR because of the restricted hours at casinos?

Prolijo...... You are basing much of your comments on your infrequent visits to CR and even less to the casinos. The DR certainly not indicative of the total industry. At 1pm sometimes it was difficult to get a seat at a table or a slot machine at the Colonial before the "Laura decree". The Fiesta casino in Alajuella has a similar situation. They can't make up for this loss of income. I'm no expert,however I believe that people gamble for the same amounts of bets whether they open for 24 hours or 14 hours. A $10 bet is a $10 bet. Machines are certainly a constant because a play is the same always,so the variable is TIME for a casino to make money. This is also true with table games,because casino incme from table games is determined by two factors....time (which is now reduced) and average bet (which I believe to be a constant) A $5 player will not become a $50 player because the casino opened for less time.

Getting back to my original points...... There is NO sense to these closings.Laura said originally that it would "save the Ch*ldren" from prostitution and that is clearly having NO effect. In the ONLY casino where chicas hang out looking for business,the DR,the chicas are there in the same numbers between 5am and 3 pm as they were before. The ONLY reduction is in the numbers of Gringos coming here because of the economic conditions and the numbers of employees having legitimate jobs. If anything,there will be MORE prostitutes because the chicas that LOST THEIR JOBS still have to feed their families. They help NO ONE...... and to try to extract more taxes from the industry on top of the decree is ludicrous.

Bob,
I'll defer to your much greater knowledge of other casinos. Besides I think we're all tired of that part of the debate. However, I COMPLETELY AGREE with the second part of your post and the real point of this thread. Attacking casinos as a way of dealing with prostitution is absurdly illogical and misguided. All it acheives is negative and counterproductive in ways having nothing to do with the problems it purports to solve. We can quibble about how much it hurts the casinos and gamblers, but it is clear that it has caused many casino workers to lose their jobs, HURTING TICOS VERY BADLY at a time when the local economy is already very tough and it does NOTHING AT ALL to reduce prostitution let alone "save the Ch*ldren" from it. I think we can ALL agree on that.

I just spoke to a non-CRT friend of mine who is getting ready to return to the States after a short trip here.He has been here many times. He likes to gamble a little while he is here,but it doesn't take up too much of his time.

He made some interesting observations. First he said that with all the lights turned off and the casinos being closed,it was pretty depressing during the daytime. This was compounded by the serious reduction in numbers of Gringo tourists. He travels quite a bit to some of the better monger destinations so his observations are pretty good.

At the end of the day, it will probably save alot of us from getting bitch slapped while we are wasted at 5am at the casinos.

I doubt that many mongers are finding it depressing because the casino lights are turned off between the time they get up and have breakfast until 3 PM unless they are very very serious gamblers.

The lack of gringo tourists is more likely do to the economy then CR casino hours.

_________________
Pura Vida
Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four
essential food groups:
alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat.
Alex Levine

I find it pretty depressing when they turn off the lights and close down at midnight at IDEM or the SL bar and find it pretty depressing when I try to hit an MP for a morning massage only to find their door still locked and them not opened up yet .... But then I get over it. After all, there are always other things to do.

Of course, ID is right that the lack of gringo tourists is more likely due to the economy than CR casino hours, although Bob never really said otherwise. What he essentially said was that the serious reduction in numbers of Gringo tourists [whatever its cause] also ADDED to the sense of gloom in the closed and dark casinos. And that only makes sense. Any large, dark and completely empty room that would normally at least have some people in it could be described as somewhat depressing. The only problem with that line of reasoning is if its closed dark and empty what are you even doing there to get depressed? Don't you have other places to go? Bob does seem to suggest that this closure of a few places during a time of the day where they wouldn't be that active anyway and during a time of day when there are other places to be (like in bed at 5AM or hitting MP's before 3PM) is somehow a significant contributory factor to the serious reduction in numbers of Gringo tourists. However, I fail to see how this anecdotal story really does anything to support that argument.

Bob says that he and most other gamblers bet the same amount per hand so that any reduction in gambling time earlier day is not offset by larger bets with later. He still hasn't said whether he makes up the time he would have spent gambling earlier in the day with more gambling hours later. To that I would now add did his friend wind up spending less money in CR during this past trip because he couldn't gamble before 3PM or did he just gamble more later or find other things to spend his money on that he would have spent gambling and has he indicated he won't come back to CR and spend more money there because of the curtailment of casino hours. I'm guessing that the answers both Bob and his friend and most everybody else to the following questions will suggest that the impact on how much money gringo tourists spend in CR because of this will be minimal at best.

I'm reviving this thread to determine whether or not the reduced casino hours have had a noticeable effect on tourism and more particulalry, to the habits of CRT members.

An anecdote: One of the best afternoons I've spent in Costa Rica was an early afternoon last September, when Circus, CRT'er Yunoit and I played blackjack at the Horseshoe. Most Stateside casinos have refused me access to the BJ tables, claiming that requiring the dealers to call the cards as they were laid would slow down play too much, inconveniencing other players and reducing the casino's profits. This happened to me a number of times in Vegas, and even at more local Native American casinos.

The two hours spent at the BJ table at the Horseshoe were fun and instructive, and in my case profitable ($50.00 won!) I find it sad that I won't have the choice to gamble during the daytime anymore. BTW, Circus, an experienced gambler who was seated immediately to the right of the dealer, lost as much as I won....

I view this entire sad story as a case of misguided politics, played by uninformed politicians. The Horseshoe was populated by no fewer than two dozen gamblers in the small area near the blackjack tables (I couldn't tell how many were playing other games) at 1:00 p.m. What else are you going to do in downtown SJ when it's pissing rain? This was no pelo de gato...it was el gato entero rain...and the casino made for a friendly and fun spot to pass a couple hours.

Whatever the real economic impact, it is equally important to me that the government is trying to legislate morality, taking away choices from adults.

Furthermore, if the concern was protecting ch*ldren and reducing prostitution, wouldn't they want the casinos closed at night, when most street crime seems to happen? The k*ddies should be in school and therefore aren't affected by the casinos, whether open or closed.

I will stand by my earlier contention that Ms. Chinchilla's moves are toward the criminalization of prostitution...another shit idea.

Thanks for allowing me to vent.

_________________
Pura Vulva! Wandering through the dark, I am El Ciego.