www.CostaRicaTicas.com

Bottom line here is there are many outher options.For those traveling on a budget there are many apartment alternatives a short taxi ride from the gulch and these days you need to take a taxi late at night anyway.rbc100

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In Search of Fine Kittens,
Please... Bring back the Muff

I find it totally amazing that this thread is still Alive & Well…

Particually when the so-called, “Monarchs of this Site,” failed to come behind these new posts and state…
HEY IT”S A DEAD POST…LET IT DIE!!!!!



I wonder what ole Poot is thinking….CLICK…I have a good idea…

Pooter,

I think this thread stays alive because the situation stays alive. The ongoing drama at the Presidente merits ongoing discussion. To tell you the truth, I myself am surprised that this thread is still alive, but it isn't anyone's place (other than the Admin) to kill it.

What really amazes me is that guys are still huffing and puffing how wrong the dress code is and also fail to see the hotel's need to promote its family, corporate and eco-tourism business along side the monger business. This is difficult and delicate. Mrs. Midwestern, Happy Hubby and their requisite 1.5 offspring don't want to be confronted by Macho Monger and Chica Mercenaria.

While I'm sure that those reading this are all gentlemen, I am equally certain that this isn't true for all the Presidente's mongering guests. My sense of this is that the hotel would not have gone to the trouble to institute and enforce this policy, had not a problem existed.

One more thing, Pooter. Will you kindly provide me with a list of "monarchs" on this Forum? I need to get crowns and scepters made.

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Pura Vulva! Wandering through the dark, I am El Ciego.

I didn't want to be drawn into this discussion. I agree with whoever it was that posted that updates are worthwhile but this subject leads to a lot of rehashing. However, since my name was cited I'll weigh and probably unsuccessfully try to keep my comments brief.

I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE PRESIDENTE'S OCCUPANY ARE SINGLE MALE TRAVELERS. Is it 10% or is it 65% or is it something in between? I will say this and you can ask yourself the same question. If I were a couple or a family or an ecotourist would I choose to stay at the Presidente or anywhere else in the Gulch for that matter? Forgetting for the moment whether or not there are perverted old gringos in the lobby with their young putas, wouldn't I be confronted with the same sight out on the street? The Gulch is crime-ridden and full of beggars and all other sorts of street trash and if it weren't for the presence of P4P would be the last place I'd want to base my vacation in CR. True, it gives you proximity to a lot of downtown attractions such as the National Theatre and Gold Museum but everything around there worth seeing can be seen in a day and can just as easily be reached from one of the charming little boutique hotels in the surrounding neighborhoods (like the Don Carlos), or by coming in for the day from one of the nicer hotels that are up in the hills and out of the city traffic. In fact, most non-monger CR visitors try to avoid SJ altogether. YMMV, but I wouldn't stay at the Presidente if that were my situation. Would any of you ... really?

Look at the Balmoral across the street from the Presidente. It is similar in many respects to the Presidente but has a huge chica fee and look at its comparative occupancy. The Presidente is usually fully booked ahead of time even in summer and the Balmoral is not. Of course there are other factors but based on that my guess would be that well over 10% of the Presidente's clientele are mongers. Maybe not 65% but certainly a significant percentage. How else can you explain why Gulch hotels like the Prez and the HDR are usually fully booked while similar hotels are not?

Look at the reviews of these hotels at other non-monger travel sites. They are usually written by men or by multiple time visitors and what typically what sort of tourist do you think visits CR time after time and stays in the city? Ecotourists, world travelers or degenerates like ourselves? These are all the reviews taken off TripAdvisor and only 2 seem to have been written by women (one broadminded and one disgruntled). First the Presidente:

1) "This hotel was very nice, the staff is great, and the breakfast is outstanding. the beds leave a lil to be desired but the location it close to the key largo and the blue marlin bar , and no guest fee!!"
2) "...The night guard would keep female guests from entering if he judged them to be inappropriately attired. No rules, just his judgment. A bare midriff is a no-no."
3) "... An added plus, for the single guys out there, it's right around the corner from the Hotel Del Rey, an the infamous Blue Marlin Bar. While it's quite a safe area, it's best to take a cab if partying into the wee hours. "
4) "...I like getting history on an area and I found nothing of historical interest in downtown. You are offered a Chicka (prostitute) from the time you get into the cab. Downtown is not particularly safe after 10:00 p.m. and the bars and gates on doors and windows tell you that without talking to one local. The hotel is very nice and centrally located for downtown. We stayed there on two different days and there is mostly American men who stay there. They keep the Chickas busy there. If I went again and flew into San Jose, I would stay at a hotel within 5-10 minutes of the airport. It would be much more convenient and safe."
5) "...As a female who travels alone quite a bit, feeling safe is a big deal for me. At night there are guards posted at the entrance to the hotel to help ensure that only guests wander in. Also, while the bar/restaurant is really cool, if you are sitting at a patio table don't be surprised when you get the occasional person asking for money.

There are great places to eat within walking distance as well as the notorious Blue Marlin Bar. I wasn't aware of it's repuation until the friends I was with decided to enlighten me. It was safe and fun but be prepared to have the "working girls" hang all over your man or your male traveling companions. One wouldn't necessarily guess they were on the clock...

Very interesting place to people watch "
6) "Have stayed at the Presidente several times. Every time I return I find they have made more improvements. Staff and food are excellent. Rooms are clean. This hotel really caters to the repeat customer."
7) "While in San Jose I cannot think of a better hotel than the El Presidente. I have stayed at this hotel close to ten times and they continue to refurbish and improve the rooms and ambience. The restaurant is good and allows for a bird's eye view of San Jose street life. ..."

Even the Balmoral gets similar reviews:

1)"...It is also about a block from the Hotel Del Rey Casino, which is a great place for entertainment. ..."
2) "First the hotel is average. They charge $20 to bring a guest to your room...."
3) "The only negative thing that I didn't like was the $20 charge for visitors and the $3 fee for using the safe per day. "

If it weren't for guys like us giving this place 5 stars, it would be much more lowly ranked and most of the other options better suited for regular tourists would be more highly rated.

Of course this is not scientific or statistically meaningful but it does give you an idea that Barry may not be so far off. Only the Prez. mgmt can tell you more precisely the percentages and they're not about to do that, although they do seem to think what they're doing is a risk worth taking. Actually, I don't know what they're thinking. I think they're treading on very dangerous ground.

What at first appeared to be an attempted accomodation for their non-monger guests while still allowing mongers to bring back modestly attired working girls, increasingly seems to be a concerted attack against our market sector. The original policy was loosely defined but had specific standards (e.g. no midriff, no super short skirts etc.). It had a "manager discretion" escape clause and now it seems they're relying more on that than any real consistent standard. Others have said that chicas in the street wear the same or worse, which may be true but which is irrelevant to the discussion. People sometimes wear no shirt and no shoes outside but that doesn't mean businesses can't bar them from entering. More to the point is what others in the place of business are wearing. If I or my fellow mongers had a chica visitor turned back for inappropriate attire, I'd expect those same standards to be applied to all the women in the hotel. If I saw a gringa in shorts or a sleeveless blouse or t-shirt in the lobby when I knew similarly exposed chicas were being turned away, I would definitely say something to management. I wouldn't expect much from them at this point but at least the hypocrisy would have been pointed out to them. In the begining I was prepared to wait and see where this was going, but by now this is increasingly becoming apparent that this is not some evenhanded policy attempt but a deliberate slap in the face of what largely built their business?

So what is the Presidente management thinking? Is it, as MG has suggested, that the monger market is insignificant enough that they really don't care if they lose us or not? I don't think so. Or is that we're TOO significant and really want to drive us away so they can rebrand themselves to attract a more mainstream market rather than risk becoming another HDR? If so I think they're misguided since they'll still be located in the Gulch. Or do they think they can appease their more easily offended gringa guests while still retaining the bulk of their monger clientele? Should so easily offended gringa guests even be staying in the Gulch area? The jury is still out on this one. Apparently, there are some diehard Prez. fans that are prepared to take their chances, look the other way or put up with the inconveniences ... so far. But how long will that be the case? At what point will even they say enough is enough? Is a chica fee coming next and even if it isn't how long will repeat customers put up with a management that in its other policies indicates they're not really completely welcome.

Prolijo,

Well stated as always. By the way guys, it's Pro - li-jo, not Porjilo.

Here's a little conspiracy theory for y'all. What if it's not the Presidente per se? What if it's a subrosa yet concerted effort to end p4p in San Jose?

Factors:

* Increased chica fees at a number of downtown hotels.

* The end of the Park/Europa shows.

* Closure of monger-friendly properties (Gran Via)

* El Presidente's "dress code," which is in truth no "code" at all, being grotesquely arbitrary and capricious.

* Increasing incidents of violent crime with no apparent response from either business owners or police

Perhaps the gigantic move toward the Right in the U.S. is filtering down south? Is "in your neighbor's face" moralism replacing tolerance in the Gulch? What the hell's going on here?

Whether or not there's a conscious conspiracy, my prediction is that the game will change radically in Costa Rica over the next two years. The playing field will be moved or at least, restructured.

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Pura Vulva! Wandering through the dark, I am El Ciego.

El Ciego, mi esteemed amigo,
Things really haven't changed all that much in the grand scheme of things in the gulch.

Some of the venues have changed or are gone entirely but have been modified, renovated or replaced by newer and shinier places. There are still some of the old and some very nice new MPs and hotels that have been added in just the last 3 years.

Things change but will it end? Not likely anytime soon. There are just too many people who rely on the tourists (ie. mongers) who come to the gulch area and spend lots of money to clean it up entirely.

The Sleep Inn charging $25 chica fee is just their way to discourage traffic in a minor way (they didn't say no chicas allowed) and the Presidente dress code was probably established due to a few girls abusing any sense of decency.

Just last week I saw girls with huge, silicone boobs practcally bursting out of their tiny blouses in the Del Rey. I saw a VERY hot blonde with a teeny, tiny halter top and a skirt the size of a handkerchief. Did I find them attractive? Hell, yes. Did they look like a couple slut hookers? Hell, yes.

Do I agree with the dress code? Not 100% but I understand their position.
Will I continue to stay at the Hotel Presidente. Yes, without qualification.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

Wit

Wit,
When a place charges a $25 chica fee they may not be saying "absolutely no chicas allowed" but they might as well be. Yes, they will still get a few guests who will bring back chicas on occasion, but not many. At least not if they have any sense.

The Prez may not be charging any chica fee, but the way they've implemented their new policy it seems to have gone way beyond keeping out slutty putas in handkerchief skirts. Sure you can always take your date around the corner to the Hotel Asia if you get turned away, but isn't that a form of chica fee and isn't that a undeserved inconvenience and uncertainty when you chose that hotel for its alleged chica friendliness in the first place? At what point is a HDR/BM girl considered safe to bring back? Will they have to dress in nun's habits or burkas as others have joked before the Prez mgmt or their miffed gringa guests are going to be happy? Is it possible for these girls to advertise their wares in a tasteful way and still not offend the stuck-up gringas? Or will those guests EVER be happy if they see an old gringo and a young chica no matter how they're dressed? And how far will the Prez go to appease these gringas?

I understand their policy too. I think. Up to a point. Of the various possibile explanations that I offered earlier, I agree with you that the Prez is trying to walk the delicate balance (with all the grace of an elephant) between its monger and non-monger guests. I don't subscribe to the Gulch-wide conspiracy theory, though it is also a possibility. If there is a more widespread trend going on it is most likely not really something highly orchestrated or concerted. Back at the Prez, I'm sure there were particularly scandalously clad chicas walking through and also obnoxious and arrogant monger guests and I'm sure the Prez can easily afford and wouldn't mind losing either of those types if they don't change their ways.

But it seems most HAVE changed their ways, or moved on, and yet the Prez still keeps raising the bar. Bare midriffs and skirts or shorts with asses showing are one thing but what possible reasonable excuse could the Prez have for barring chicas with sleeveless blouses when gringa guests are just as exposed? Why not allow the monger to go up to his room to grab a covering for his date while she waits in the street or at least not make it difficult and give them grief about it? You have guys and gals making a good faith effort to comply and still it is not good enough. Increasingly what is becoming apparent is that this really isn't about what they wear but about what they do. Mongers are not really welcomed at this hotel anymore like they once were. They're tolerated ... barely. The gringa minority are holding the sway, because the regular Prez monger clientele aren't expressing their disatisfaction with the way this policy is being implemented.

There are 20K sq. miles in CR filled with hotels of every sort and yet a few gringas inexplicably decide to park their fat asses in the heart of CR's sex tourism industry and then decide to complain about what they see. They need to get a life. Guys are saying if you don't like this policy stay somewhere else. I say if the gringas don't like what they see, maybe they should stay somewhere else. They have plenty more choices than we do. I don't like seeing their fat asses around the hotel or seeing their disapproving looks but you don't see me complaining about it. Of course, ultimately it is the hotel's choice which market to go after or they could continue to try to go after both. But which group is really causing all the problems. We don't have any issue with the other guests. We simply ignore them. IMHO, it is the other side that is being unreasonable in this matter. If it were an issue of our making too much noise or somehow interfering with their enjoyment of the facilities, which can happen, their complaints would be more justified, but then they should just deal with that. But, they seem to have a problem with just who we are and what we do and the fact that we offend their sensibilities is not just cause for their complaints. The Prez may be trying to walk the line but from this side of things it looks like they're leaning way over towards the other side. They need to take a good hard where they're located and which side of the bread their toast is really buttered on.

BTW, Witling, you say you would continue to stay at the Prez without hesitation but you didn't answer my question. If you were not in CR for mongering or even if you were a female eco-tourist would the Prez still be your hotel of choice and would you even choose to stay in the Gulch? Do you think the non-monger is a realistic or at least the most logical market for the Prez to go after given their location? Do you think it is fair to be turned back when your chica is wearing a sleeveless floorlength dress? You said you can appeal to the manager (in a calm manner) if you think you just got a guard on a power trip, but how often do you think the night manager has been over-ruling the guard?

Prolijo (not Porjilo) - think prolific if thats hard to remember

Prolijo,

I don't want to get in between your questions to Witling and his reply, but I wonder if you could offer proof and extrapolate on your statement that the Presidente's policy was driven by complaining gringas?

I don't honestly believe that there is a conspiracy per se, but it does appear that San Jose and the josefinos are much less tolerant of The Life than they were even three years ago.

I agree that one must be careful in placing blame, but that by the same token the Presidente is being quite unreasonable. I'm glad I didn't try to bring takeout back to the Presidente...they still believe that I'm a nice blind guy doing missionary work.

It's true. Missionary, doggie, spooning, standing....

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Pura Vulva! Wandering through the dark, I am El Ciego.

ignore

Prolijo,
I also had some of the same questions El Ciego raised regarding your post. Your usually not one to "assume" things.

As to your previous questions, with all due respect I seldom read all of your posts. I usually just skim them. You are an intelligent guy and make many good points but to read 2000 words when 200 will do is just not worth it to me.

Therefore I didn't answer your questions because I wasn't really concerned with them. Also I'm not a debater and seldom feel the need to explain my choices. One of the many benefits of being single. Besides, I posted my opinion on things changing in regards to El Ciego's post but I did say I would stay at the Hotel Presidente without qualification.

The reason for that is because they treat me right in reservations, front desk, bell boys and the maids. I like the rooms (including free refrigerator and safes), I like the local and I like the News Cafe for breakfast.

As for my date being stopped, I took care of it and had no further problems with the guard when we returned. I thought he was pushing the policy a little too far and basically ignored him.

As to any other "guests" I might bring back, I seldom do "pleasure" with the types of girls I described earlier. I just don't find them that applealing on a one-on-one basis. I may be judging them unfairly but I guess that's my loss.

Besides, I don't go to San Jose to "monger" like some guys might. I go to gamble, see the CRT guys and if I find someone I want to spend some time with I'll then make a selection. If I find someone I just can't live without for a couple hours and she isn't dressed to pass the Prez dress code I'll make the necessary arrangements. So far it hasn't been a problem.

I really don't care what others think of the Hotel Presidente since I have no financial interest in it. I figure the more guys who don't stay there only increases the chance for me to get a reservation.

I have also stayed at the Morazan, Best Western and had reservations at the Amon Plaza last week before they got shut down. I will be staying at the SL on my next trip and the Prez on the trip after that.

I'm pretty flexible.

Hugs,
Wit
PS. BTW, when was the last time you were even IN San Jose?

I don't really know where the pressure came for them to institute this policy, from their other guests or from the social climate around them, but I do know it had to come from somewhere. Why fix something that is not broken? If no one was complaining why make a policy change that was likely to be so unpopular with many of their guests? Ultimately, whether it was some complaining gringas staying at their hotel or some gringas back in the US pressuring the CR tourist industry in general and indirectly filtering down to the Prez it probably traces back to them either way. Hell, lets just blame them anyway. Its convenient and it feels good.

They cited disruptive guests as the reason they initiated this policy and I think if they were talking about a monger complaining about a fellow monger making too much noise they would have dealt with the issue of noise rather than do what they did.

Is it possible anyone else is as tired of this particular subject being brought up over and over again in various forms.

I don't kill threads to often and I wont kill this one, but jeez LET IT GO!

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Thank you for supporting CRT!

Personally, I use my big Presidente umbrella most everyday now here during Panama's rainy season. So, I'm still promoting them. LOL Thanks Daniel.

Has anyone noticed Ace's photo under "Funny Photo" category?

he has the "approved" dress code pic.

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The difference between a Sea Story and a Fairy Tale is that a Fairy Tale starts out 'Once Upon a Time..' and a Sea Story starts out 'This is no Shit...'

(export version only, some restrictions may apply, some assembly required, not valid where the sun don't shine...

if you live in the states of Poverty, Darkness or anywhere outside of The Blessings of Civilization Trust, Inc...other rules may apply)

i will contemplate staying somewhere else on my future trips.i had to buy a small jacket for one to get her upstairs. they should have a dress code for everyone,guys included. pura vida