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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:42 pm 
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My question would be, how do you know if it was a go around or missed approach? Or did I miss that in the thread sorry if so.. we were arriving into SFO and we were no more than 100 feet to the ground on a 777 and we did a GO AROUND many heart in your throat at that point.... Also on a 737 into Charlotte we did a go around never did know on either one if or what was the cause only its not a pleasant feeling doing the flaps power Up program.. trust me.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:12 pm 
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I am not aviation savvy but I assumed due to the short space in which to turn and manuever the big jets 727s in Honduras they use the tractor (1) to taxi in and out?

Guatemala was very nice airport with many armed soldiers present. Aslo there was constant activity military present. Military helos landing and taking off!

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:25 pm 
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I have had the fly around Twice at SJO... both at night...

first time we landed in Managa... crew expired and had to spend the night

Second time ... I said here we come Nica land :D two circles and all was good, but got to San Jose and it was a black out... still had fun

I never take a flight with a night landing in SJO any more... also try and avoid a Nature Air or Sansa after noon flights ... try flying with a hangover in total clouds till you hit Paves :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:03 pm 
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For those in the know, over a year ago I read that SJO had upgraded the landing lights. I presumed that was the factor in so many night diversions to either Managua or Panama City. I haven't heard of any since.

Another story: we were on our approach to SJO when the pilot came on a announced that due to federal regulations he could not land with a person in the restrooms. Time passed and with the runway in view we suddenly verred left and did a 1/2 circle a low altitude and came in on the other side.

Assumed the passenger was in the RR, but we weren't informed. It's the lowest I've ever flown over the Valley except for a minute or two of landing.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:01 pm 
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Jawanker wrote:
Srilm, I really appreciate your knowledgeable reports.

+ 1

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:21 pm 
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As a passenger, you probably will never know the whole reason why the plane you were on missed the approach. I've worked for 17+ years in aviation and I have thousands of hours flying as an engineer and even when I am sitting right there in the cockpit with those two pilots and something goes wrong, a lot of times they will not admit to anyone that they may have made an error. In reality, except for runway incursions (something on the runway that causes a plane to execute a go-around) and some VERY rare meteorological problems (like sudden microbursts or windshear)... most go-arounds - when the airplane has actually touched down - are a result of pilot error. There's a lot of procedures in place that pilots have to follow to ensure everything is good before they commit to landing. Modern jet aircraft are not like the piston powered airplanes of old and they take a long time to come up to full power after you go to near-idle for a touchdown, so the last thing they want to do is have to reject a landing after touchdown.

I'm kind of an amateur enthusiast about aviation safety (I may try and work in the accident investigation side of things later in my career) and one trend I have noticed over the last 10-20 years is that many new pilots rely way too much on the advanced navigation systems of their modern aircraft. So much so that when they make a mistake, they are sometimes reluctant to take control of the aircraft away from the auto-pilot. This has resulted in a lot of modern aircraft going off the end of runways in recent years, IMO. As one of the senior 30+ year pilots in my company always tells me, the first thing a pilot needs to do in a "situation" is to "Fly the Aircraft". That means they take over and take control of the airplane and make sure it is flying level and safe while the pilot not flying deals with the problem.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:19 pm 
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PlaneCrazy wrote:
That means they take over and take control of the airplane and make sure it is flying level and safe while the pilot not flying deals with the problem.


I guess this is why that AA pilot got in trouble for those margaritas he had just before preparing to fly. :shock:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europ ... =hpmostpop

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:09 am 
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PlaneCrazy wrote:
As a passenger, you probably will never know the whole reason why the plane you were on missed the approach. I've worked for 17+ years in aviation and I have thousands of hours flying as an engineer and even when I am sitting right there in the cockpit with those two pilots and something goes wrong, a lot of times they will not admit to anyone that they may have made an error. In reality, except for runway incursions (something on the runway that causes a plane to execute a go-around) and some VERY rare meteorological problems (like sudden microbursts or windshear)... most go-arounds - when the airplane has actually touched down - are a result of pilot error. There's a lot of procedures in place that pilots have to follow to ensure everything is good before they commit to landing. Modern jet aircraft are not like the piston powered airplanes of old and they take a long time to come up to full power after you go to near-idle for a touchdown, so the last thing they want to do is have to reject a landing after touchdown.

I'm kind of an amateur enthusiast about aviation safety (I may try and work in the accident investigation side of things later in my career) and one trend I have noticed over the last 10-20 years is that many new pilots rely way too much on the advanced navigation systems of their modern aircraft. So much so that when they make a mistake, they are sometimes reluctant to take control of the aircraft away from the auto-pilot. This has resulted in a lot of modern aircraft going off the end of runways in recent years, IMO. As one of the senior 30+ year pilots in my company always tells me, the first thing a pilot needs to do in a "situation" is to "Fly the Aircraft". That means they take over and take control of the airplane and make sure it is flying level and safe while the pilot not flying deals with the problem.


i really think that was the attitude from the cockpit. had they come over the intercom and just said they needed to go back around it would have allayed a lot of the angst i saw in the cabin. i was nervous but never felt the plane was out of control or anything. just a few words would have settled a lot of peoples racing hearts but maybe they felt like they would have lost face if they did. in any event thats how it seemed.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:43 am 
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Can anyone give us the bottom line on Turbulence. Should we be afraid of it?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:53 am 
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Not a completely different subject, but I have always felt that some non US Flag carriers should be avoided, perhaps due to a caviler attitude towards such things as pilot training and maintenance. Not to denigrate any one country, but there have been tragic incidents in the past of planes running into a mountain in the case of Sansa, (since bankrupt) running out of fuel in the case of the Colombian carrier and many such other incidents. After a VZ based airliner, Viasa (bankrupt as well) missed the airpstrip twice on a flight I was on, I vowed to try and fly U.S. flag carriers as much as possible. I also trust other major airlines such as Varig or Air Argentina, and TACA, but IMHO, the smaller carriers can be more dangerous. I am not sure this is the best trend, but at least it makes me feel better when flying. :?: :?:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:05 pm 
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Thats awesome.

And this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL2wm3DJ ... re=related

I think I've watched all these. More interesting than 'Three and a Half Men' to me- I don't watch shows with a laugh track.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:24 am 
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Just don't rely on stereotypes or commonly held miss beliefs, if you are worried about how "safe" one airline is over another. The vast majority of passengers just don't have access to the information they need to make an informed decision on how safe an airline is. Sure, there's tons of aviation websites now that try and post every accident and incident that ever happens in aircraft (www.avherald.com is my favorite) but they are all biased in one form or another. Even the national government run regulatory agencies are not 100% unbiased. I read practically every incident report from Transport Canada and a large number from the FAA as well and many times, I have had personal knowledge of details from some of these incidents and know information not published in the reports and the agencies often times downplay the root cause of the accident so as not to cause public embarrassment to the parties involved. When an aerospace giant like Boeing, for example, employees hundreds of thousands of people and generates billions in tax dollars, the government always thinks twice about what it says publicly about them.

The average flyer should instead reply on their own observations and "gut feelings" to decide it they want to risk flying on a certain carrier. Often times, just observing the employees will tell you everything you need to know. If the pilots, flight attendants and ticket agents don't appear to be competent and professional, then why would the mechanics be any different. Or the executives that decide whether they want to spend the $$$ on repairs and parts replacement?

Just an couple examples of how something that is "common knowledge" is not really correct...

- Cubana is listed frequently as having one of the worst safety records in the aviation industry. What nobody tells you is that they are the worst of the few that actually report their incidents publicly. In fact, there are hundreds of other airlines that do not publish their safety information and/or are in countries where it is not required. IMO, the reason for Cubana's poor rating is the use of old soviet era aircraft in Cuba itself, for regional use. Internationally, they lease aircraft from France with fully trained French crews along with one or two Cuban crew members in charge. While their in-flight service is lacking, I have found the flights themselves to be efficient, safe and very professional and on modern well-maintained equipment.

If I had to pigeon hole one region to avoid, i would have to say African regionals. That area of the world is filled with the most dangerous regionals you can imagine. When I read about crashes like ("all 26 passengers dead after Twin Otter crashes in Nigerian back country") I just shake my head (BTW, the Twin Otter usually is only configured to hold 12-16 passengers max)

- My second example is the common belief that American carriers are , by and large, safer then most other countries. Sure, the nationals are under a microscope all the time and held to a high standard, but it's the small regionals that you have to watch out for. How many people here would be surprised to learn that if they picked one random carrier out in the US and booked a flight today, they have a very good chance of getting a crew that has two pilots making less money then what your K*D gets working at McDonalds? And that they have the absolute minimum amount of experience and hours needed to fly that plane? Sure they may have 1500 hours total time flying cesnas at their home field, but they may have as little as 50 hours only on that type of large turbojet aircraft :shock: There is such a shortage of new trained pilots in the world right now, that regionals are taking ANYONE who meets the minimum requirements. Plus these new pilots are having to work insane hours and make shit for pay until they have sevral years under their belt and can move up the ladder.

Ok, enough of my aviation safety rant :)

As for turbulence... as Srilm already said, it's not a big issue to the aircraft's safety. But it is the main reason why you are required to stay seated and belted in when not moving around on an aircraft. There have been several flight attendants killed over the years from CAT (clear air turbulence) . Nowadays, even the FA's will jump to their seats and buckle up, whenever the captain tells them theirs turbulence ahead.

My worst experience of turbulence was in the high arctic of Canada, where I used to fly everyday back in the early 90's. Middle of the night and we were on approach to Pond Inlet, NWT, and I was in the lav having a piss when the plane hit an air pocket and dropped 50 feet instantly. I was lifted off my feet and hit my head on the ceiling and then was thrown to the side. The FA thought I was dead and knocked on the door asking if I was OK. I had to tell her to pass me a roll of paper towels as i just decorated the whole lav with piss :oops:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:34 am 
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Thanks plane crazy. You answered my question about turbulence perfectly and what I already knew, KEEP YOUR FREEKIN SEAT BELTS ON AT ALL TIMES UNLESS YOU HAVE AN EMERGENCY PIT STOP!!!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:31 am 
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PlaneCrazy wrote:

- My second example is the common belief that American carriers are , by and large, safer then most other countries. Sure, the nationals are under a microscope all the time and held to a high standard, but it's the small regionals that you have to watch out for. How many people here would be surprised to learn that if they picked one random carrier out in the US and booked a flight today, they have a very good chance of getting a crew that has two pilots making less money then what your K*D gets working at McDonalds? And that they have the absolute minimum amount of experience and hours needed to fly that plane? Sure they may have 1500 hours total time flying cesnas at their home field, but they may have as little as 50 hours only on that type of large turbojet aircraft :shock: There is such a shortage of new trained pilots in the world right now, that regionals are taking ANYONE who meets the minimum requirements. Plus these new pilots are having to work insane hours and make shit for pay until they have sevral years under their belt and can move up the ladder.

Frontline looked into the US regionals last year and discovered those scary facts along with many others, the entire program can be watched here- http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... ap/safety/


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:39 am 
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PlaneCrazy wrote:
My worst experience of turbulence was in the high arctic of Canada, where I used to fly everyday back in the early 90's. Middle of the night and we were on approach to Pond Inlet, NWT, and I was in the lav having a piss when the plane hit an air pocket and dropped 50 feet instantly. I was lifted off my feet and hit my head on the ceiling and then was thrown to the side. The FA thought I was dead and knocked on the door asking if I was OK. I had to tell her to pass me a roll of paper towels as i just decorated the whole lav with piss :oops:


I am supprised that you didn't go in there to do #1 and end up with #2. I know I would have had to clean my drawers after that one.


By the way, if I am not mistaken SJO's runway is over 2 miles long. The only problem is that they built it at an angle. If you are on that road that goes to the airport and look at the runway, you can see it.

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