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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:32 am 
Masters Degree in Mongering!
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LAdiablo wrote:
...as w everything there needs to be balance and imo its a mistake to make this your only experiences w women
there are plenty of guys that only know working girls and it works for them bravo
personally i need to have at least one foot in the civilian world but then i'm one of those fools who still finds real emotions appealing


We all have one foot in the civilian world. We all have women friends who are just that: friends on par with our male friends. Respected leaders, helpful subordinates, valued colleagues.

I was amazed at some of the friendships I have been able to cultivate with providers, but then I realized that once we both got what we wanted, we could focus on being nice to each other.

Even those of us who live "down range" eventually get to the point where, freed from the need to look for our next "fix," become the men we were supposed to be. When you have a parachute, and even a back up parachute, airplane rides are more relaxing affairs. You don't become Spock when he comes back from Par Fon, but you stop being Captain Kirk who accidently took Viagra.

Can you have good interactions with Western women? As platonic friends? Yes, if she is not using the promise of sex to turn you into her chump. In the workplace? Depends. If she is there to work and pull her weight, yes. If not, they are a law suit waiting to happen. Never forget, we live in a gynocentric society. In so many aspects, our society works to the disadvantage of men. Take the military draft, for example.

So, no, we don't actually live in the "civilian" world, we live in a country dominated by misandry.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:51 pm 
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^ All good points but i was actually referring to physical relationships
not necessarily w gringas but just non P4P type girls
of course they all have an angle but it just feels more natural to get to know a person intimately
not saying it doesn't happen on occasion w a working girl because it does, and i have
but it would feel pretty shallow to me if my some total of sexual experiences was w working girls
when i have said this before it always seems to get a rise because its interpreted as i'm saying i'm better
its just one mans opinion and how i'm wired
i know guys who have occasional girls back home and like to indulge and i have met guys who i'm pretty sure that P4P is the only sex they have and are immersed in the scene
teho and i don't judge anyone but for me i like the balance regardless of what anyone elses deal is ;/
but for sure the things i have learned from travels have affected how sturdy my foundation is in regards to women
and i think especially w ladies from different cultures, when they see your strong in your opinions and approach they respect you more than a typical american male that puts a woman on a pedestal
eh i'm just rambling lol

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:19 pm 
Not a Newbie I just don't post much!

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JTF Bravo

Brilliant brilliant work! Someone's third eye is actually open. Im sure that knowledge didnt come to you without the price of hardship and pain. Like I said before everyone has different needs. If relationships or mongering makes you happy then anybody here has my blessing.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:54 pm 
Not a Newbie I just don't post much!
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JTF-Bravo wrote:
Women understand, on a visceral level, that mongering is a threat to their monopoly on vagina. They are like union members that despise 'scab' replacement workers, short term contract employees, and companies that relocate "their" factories to lower cost venues. You are taking resources they feel entitled to (time/money/entertainment they get from dates, gifts they demand as "girlfriends," your salary when they expect as wives) and diverting them to more competitive laborers.

If it weren't for sex, they could not compete in the market for friendship: other guys are better for that. In the marketplace of sex, they don't want to compete with younger, sexier, lower cost labor that doesn't demand entangling commitments. Who would sign a contract to make monthly payment to buy an old bus from the city transit company that had been ridden by millions of passengers whose DNA could never be completely scrubbed out when you could rent a low mileage sports car once in a while? And with the bus, you would continue to make payments on that bus, even after your contract was broken, so that you would paying other men to ride that bus.

Most frontier towns had bordellos. When enough "respectable" women came to town, they put pressure, via their useful pawns, the clergy, on the city fathers to shut them down. The bordellos then relocated deeper into the frontier. East of the Mississippi, they had to go underground.

We live in a world hostile to the working man, the average man.

Feminism means that he has to compete for work/job training/educational qualification at time in his life when he is starting out his life. His wages are depressed by this Marxian "reserve army of labor." There are fewer seats for him in the schools and academies that will grant him access to well paying entry level jobs. When he aspires to those promotions on the bottom of the career ladder, he will have to compete for them with women. Women who will promptly vacate those positions when their biological clock starts ticking or when they marry men who successfully navigated the feminist minefield and have accumulated enough of a resource surplus to support a wife...and the house...and the second car...and the vacations....and all the other luxury goods she needs to impress her friends.

Globalism has also squeezed the average working man. In the West, the working man is no longer working in a system designed to enlarge the middle class. Globalism is designed to maximize corporate profits and shareholder value by manufacturing in the low cost Third World and selling protects in the high income First World. This is good for companies and "consumers," but for the working man in the West, who must now compete with wage slaves in Third World sweat shops, it has been a disaster. "Oh, lucky me. WalMart has cut the price of this product by a dollar. Too bad my unionized, well paying job went to Mexico, and now I have to work two jobs to make half as much as used to make."

Multiculturalism has also hurt men. Open to the borders and allow unskilled, low wage workers to come in? Or open the borders and import them because some of them claim to be refugees? It is bad enough if they work and form the ranks of yet another "reserve army of labor," that depresses wages. What if they don't work, and even more taxes have to taken from what is left of the middle class?

All of these factors have worked to make men less attractive to women. Women do the respect regular guys anymore, because they are constantly told that the rich/young/handsome/funny/entertaining guy (Tony Stark) is waiting to whisk them away from their boring lives and settling for anything less is settling for Homer Simpson. They are convinced by a mass media that tells them they are "worth it," that they should avoid "scrubs," and that a battalion of men can be swiped left on Tinder until they find Mr. Fabulous. Such a fragile emotional sandcastle of an ego needs constant Validation, and you, Mr. Average Guy just can't provide it, or the lifestyle they have been convinced they should become accustomed to.

So, mongering is a perfectly valid adaptation to the 21st Century by men. De-regulation of airlines made air travel affordable to "depressed wages man." The internet allowed men to get knowledge about exotic locales that was once the exclusive domain of sailors, international men of mystery, airline pilots, corporate executives, and soldiers of fortune. In an age where presidents can brag about smoking cigars that have been marinated in the vagina juice of interns who are younger than their daughters, or a congressman and mayoral candidate can shamelessly send dick pix to teenagers, there is no shame in mongering. In a battlefield littered with the flaming wrecks of the divorces of the parents' marriages, nobody is going jump out their foxhole and sprint for the promise of happy, white picket fenced home and 2.5 K*ds. The priest who told you that you would go blind if you masturbated to Playboy was busted for pedophilia, and a decade later, Playboy - as you knew it - became a quaint cultural artifact.

20th century rules make no sense in a 21st century arena, and make no mistake, it is an arena. One where there is less money and respect to go around, and you are locked in mortal combat with the girl next door.

When you monger, you are globalizing sexual pleasure. The monopoly wants a closed "union shop." The artificial marketplace cannot support an equilibrium between supply and demand. When you monger abroad, you are taking your First World salary to a Third World market.

For you fans of the "Big Bang Theory," recall how much of the humor of the first three seasons of the show revolved around the nerdy scientist wanting to graduate from the "friend zone" of the promiscuous blonde neighbor who was at her peak of Sexual Marketplace Value. How many times had he paid her rent when she didn't get an acting gig, or pay for her Chinese take-out when she was running short, or do a thousand other favors that none of the Alpha Males she was phucking were not returning her calls?

A few seasons later, she realized she that the career "Wall," that her acting career was not going to take off, and that would demote her form aspiring actress who worked at the Cheese Factory to pay for acting lessons, to just plain old waitress. That is when she wanted to marry nerdy scientist.

Now imagine if nerdy scientist realized that he was just a 90 minute drive and a few Spanish lessons from spending his weekends, and his Fall/Spring/Winter breaks, and his three day weekends (yep, he had a lot of free time, since he was a college professor) down in Tijuana? Hell, just being an hour's drive to LAX airport he had direct flights to San Jose, or Manila, or Pattaya available to him! Imagine how much "I don't give a Phuck" pheromones he could have exuded with his freshly drained balls that would have gotten the round-heeled blonde neighbor into his bed in months and not years....without having to do all the chores/favors/"loans" she reserves for friend-zoned beta-male orbiters.

People tell you to be yourself. Are you a better version of yourself when you have gone hungry for a few days? Are you a better version of yourself when you have been denied sleep for a few days? So why aren't you a better version of yourself when you monger a couple times of year?



If you ever wrote a book, I would definitely purchase it lol


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:13 am 
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This can be a fun and innocent hobby as long as you take it for what it is, a fantasy. When you start with feelings (love, jealousy, etc), and take it as reality, it starts to Phuck with your head. Then it becomes a problem.

I have personally seen more than a few guys lose themselves in this "hobby". And I've talked about this before, I know a guy who basically bankrupted himself mongering. He was charging all his trips, air, hotel, food, and drinks, and using all his cash on hookers.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:33 pm 
Just Learning The Gulch!
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JTF-Bravo wrote:
Women understand, on a visceral level, that mongering is a threat to their monopoly on vagina. They are like union members that despise 'scab' replacement workers, short term contract employees, and companies that relocate "their" factories to lower cost venues. You are taking resources they feel entitled to (time/money/entertainment they get from dates, gifts they demand as "girlfriends," your salary when they expect as wives) and diverting them to more competitive laborers. ... Imagine how much "I don't give a Phuck" pheromones he could have exuded with his freshly drained balls that would have gotten the round-heeled blonde neighbor into his bed in months and not years....without having to do all the chores/favors/"loans" she reserves for friend-zoned beta-male orbiters...People tell you to be yourself. Are you a better version of yourself when you have gone hungry for a few days? Are you a better version of yourself when you have been denied sleep for a few days? So why aren't you a better version of yourself when you monger a couple times of year?


Truer words have never been written, JTF. Mongering helped me understand that pu*sy is a worldwide commodity, with American puritanical culture constantly constricting the supply of pu*sy which, with either steady or increasing penile demand, causes the "price" (what men will do for a steady supply of pu*sy) to rise.

I've been a round peg trying to fit professionally and culturally in America all my adult life. I put my balls on the shelf and my manhood on the side (beta-male style) to try and make marriage and family work. Two divorces later, I finally understand that at age 60.

A few years ago, the chicas tapped into a "berzerker" side of my personality that had been dormant too long, then unwittingly sent me home to handle my business. The result? I made some difficult business and family decisions to cut off some toxic relationships that should have terminated much earlier. For that I'm grateful to the women of HDR, SL, et.al.

In the interim, I've been on 2 "legitimate" gringa dates since I've been mongering--both disasters in my mind. Spent $150 each for drinks, dinner, bullshit conversation (their version of due diligence to determine if you're 'worthy'). All I could think of was that I just blew R/T flights to SJO from South FL and/or 1 TLN with a fave. :evil:

I know I was impatient as hell on both dates and at the end, I was trying to cut deals, at least conceptually, like I would do in the HDR-what I want, how often I want it, what I'm willing to do. Both said no, because they wanted to "take it slow." You don't know how badly I wanted to stand up, point my finger 1 inch away from their noses, and say, "BITCH, I GOT OPTIONS YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT!" Needless to say, I didn't call back either one.

Did I learn a lesson? Yes. I should do no-cost due diligence of my own by asking them what THEY want. And if it's not drive-by, get-in-when-you-fit-in sex, I'm gone. Phuck them and their desire for free food and drinks. After all, it's a numbers game and some woman or 2 will eventually take the deal. If not, SJO is 2.5 hours away.

I'm not looking for a long-term relationship, or serial short-term relationships here in America. I'm generally an introverted loner. I'm happy to build SJO into my budget indefinitely just like a mortgage, electricity, etc. unless something better comes along somewhere else.

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"Free your mind and your ass will follow...the kingdom of heaven is within." "Free Your Mind..." Parliament/Funkadelic

"Why must I feel like that, why must I chase the cat? Nothing but the dog in me." "Atomic Dog," George Clinton


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:26 am 
Masters Degree in Mongering!
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dick beachman wrote:
In the interim, I've been on 2 "legitimate" gringa dates since I've been mongering--both disasters in my mind. Spent $150 each for drinks, dinner, bullshit conversation (their version of due diligence to determine if you're 'worthy'). All I could think of was that I just blew R/T flights to SJO from South FL and/or 1 TLN with a fave. :evil:

Did I learn a lesson? Yes. I should do no-cost due diligence of my own by asking them what THEY want. And if it's not drive-by, get-in-when-you-fit-in sex, I'm gone. Phuck them and their desire for free food and drinks. After all, it's a numbers game and some woman or 2 will eventually take the deal. If not, SJO is 2.5 hours away.


Please watch this video: women view a first date as a financial audit, interrogation, and job interview

The Female Sorting Algorithm, an example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDpqYO47J3U

_________________
"I'm not one those pathetic lietuenant colonels working a silly civilian job, working out two hours a day trying to reclaim a body they lost 20 years ago and four hours a night completing War College by correspondence in a sad attempt at colonel. Tyler Durden told us [i]'Self improvement is masturbation[/i].' My mid-life crisis is going to involve a new sports car, or the zoftig redhead with daddy issues in accounting, or better yet, racking up frequent flyer miles going to Pattaya."


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:32 pm 
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This thread has been an interesting and fun read....

JTF Bravo, damn bro', you should write a book. Just incredible writing.


Dick Beachman, I read you about the drinks so when I date here, my rule is 2 drinks and bail if it is not going well. Cost in time and money is then minimal. If going well, keep drinking until the desired goal is reached. I never buy dinner on a date and I only conduct the date standing at the bar. If hungry, I order appetizers. It's not to be cheap but to avoid the formality of it all and I don't like eating late anyway. Keeps it airy and fun and avoids "the interview" question making you stand out. As a rule, I never meet a woman for coffee. I broke it once because she was Asian, already sent me nude pics and I banged her :lol: 8) Being different is the key.

Mongering has totally upped my game(think how confident you feel right after a trip) in dating civilians and vice versa. Yes, dating civilians and practicing your game; future pacing, mirroring, multiple dates in one night, etc. lead to me getting laid here but also totally enhance the experience down south and make just about every encounter GFE. My whole mongering game is spending the night looking for the best chance for the GFE and dating her just as I would a civilian. I actually go in the DR or KL(my fav although I sure miss the old times there), and mentally act like I am in a regular bar trying to score as I would at home and just my luck, the place is loaded with hotties who want to talk to me :lol:

I have actually stopped mongering this year because dating civilians has actually been working out really well. I make a game of seeing if I can bang a chick on the first date or I may go in with the mindset that I won't bang her. I'm no Brad Pitt and could stand to lose 25 pounds nor do I bank what I used to. If you're in your 40's+, there are a gaggle of horny gringas(yes I know I know, and no-one bashes them more than me) that are divorced and just want to have fun and Phuck like crazy. They are busy too so the timeline is sped up. And yes, many are hot with gym bodies. Sure they aren't as hot as a Nica or a Calena(my favs), but since we're here and don't always want to wait for the next trip. I know a guy who actually tells his gringa dates about his trips down south, and he bangs them all.

So in a nutshell, yes, mongering is good for us :lol: :P

Mi Dos Centavos........

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 6:29 pm 
I can do CR without a wingman!
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Great posts by Bravo, but the thing is many males are happy with all this, or it wouldn't be happening.

Women don't get married unless they can control the husband, of course there are different levels and variations on the methods, but generally that's the deal. Mostly it's about her kicking back as you battle it out with the world. Many males are ok with this, they can be the shining knight. Gives them a purpose in life and for some provides the ultimate meaning of life. We have all heard of the romantic stories of love' like Romeo and Juliet etc.

Go ahead and ask a few males, and usually they will say "yeah, they are the ultimate meaning of life' or What else is there but your wife and family" or something like this, that is till they get kicked out on the street.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:33 pm 
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Great posts guys. Increasingly, males in the USA are leading lives of quiet desperation. More and more a matriarchy.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:39 pm 
Masters Degree in Mongering!
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allday64 wrote:
Does anyone ever feel mongering is too fun and easy that it leads you away from developing a healthy relationship? Or that it turns you into a lazy sex bum therefore hurting your game? Opinions are welcome

I'm 62, do I really need relationships or game? Maybe it could affect the younger ones, but then again, if they are young and in the hobby, maybe they didn't have game to begin with because there's plenty of good pu*sy everywhere for the younger generation, but if you are shy, in spite of age, mongering is the answer!

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2023 1:19 pm 
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I just read this 6 years later and honestly..

You deserve an oscar for this piece of writing!

JTF-Bravo wrote:
Women age like milk. Men age like wine. If men can stay out of a marriage, out of debt, out of jail, and out of the hospital, they can avoid aging like vinegar.

Women attract men with:
- youth
- beauty
- virtue (i.e. men value virgins and low mileage women for marriage)
- pleasing personalities

Men attract women with:
- re$ources
- physicality
- alpha traits/high social status/ability to command respect of other men
- pleasing personalities

Women's prime time for youth and beauty peaks at about 18, plateaus during their 20s, and begins to decline at 30. This is evolution's way of attracting mates when the woman's eggs are at their freshest. Women are designed to seek Protection, then Provision, in order to raise their Ch*ldren. Once those needs are met, women will seek less tangible resources, such as (social) Validation and Entertainment.

Men don't hit their peak of "Sexual Marketplace Value" until their mid-30s. Unless they inherit money or are an actor or pop star (think Justin Bieber), most 20 year old men have few resources. Few also have little social status or are leading other men. Exceptions to this are drug dealers and gang leaders. However, by their mid-30s, most men have accumulated resources (steady job, mortgage half-way paid off), still have most of their youthful physicality, and have gotten a couple of promotions. (Think of the goofy 21 year old second lieutenant or junior assistant accounts manager vs. the 35 year old major or regional director.)

In the West, we have created an environment that caters to women. They do not need men for Protection from raids by Vikings, Indians, Imperial Japanese Army troops bent on re-enacting the Rape of Nanking, or even ISIS jihadists looking for war booty. Upper class and middle class women can use affirmative action to push a man out of the way for admission to university, getting hired for a job with a future, or getting that promotion. When he gets drafted and goes off to war, she gets to stay home. When she tires of working, she can find a beta male provider to support her, and when her wage slave catches her sucking off the pool boy, she can plunder his resources in divorce court. Lower class women can dispense with the sham of marrying a beta-male provider and then divorcing him, by marrying the Big Daddy Government. They can have Ch*ldren, and have the gov't transfer resources directly from the pay check of the beta male provider.

No wonder upper and middle class women say "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle," and lower class women put a fist on their hip, swivel their heads, twirls a finger in the air and declare "I don't need no man!"

If they are entitled to resources based on their gender, and they don't have to acknowledge all the men protecting and provisioning them, pretty soon, they only value men for their ability to provide them with Social Status/Validation and Entertainment.

What mongering does, is it takes some men out of the West's Sexual Marketplace, that is very skewed against them, and puts them in one that is more favorable. The guy that was trying to sell ice in Alaska gets to go to the desert. The guy that was trying to sell coals in New Castle gets to peddle his wares in Alaska.

Sometimes, the experience is profound. When he returns home, the new monger finds that women have been "unmasked." Women who have manipulated him for years - teasing him in the sex desert by waving an eye dropper of water - have the signature on his sexual radar as small as that of a stealth fighter.

A great mongering trip will cost less than the next 5 pairs of shoes your girlfriend will want you to buy for her. Two nice trips will cost less than the engagement ring you will buy for miss cupcake, and which memories will you treasure in your old age? The memory of the engagement ring you bought and she kept after the divorce, or the wild three way you treated yourself for your birthday? Three incredible mongering trips will cost less than what your divorce attorney will charge to ensure you don't have to live in a cardboard box after family court is done with you.

If mongering gives you the luxury of getting into a marriage or long term relationship because you "want to" and not because you feel you "have too," it is a boon. If mongering allows you avoid women's scams and traps because sex is something you have and not want, it is a boon. If you delay marriage long enough until you are wise enough to avoid the woman who just wants to marry because her biological clock is ticking or because she realized the corporate rat race means working too hard for all her money when she can stay at home and spend half of your money, it is a boon.

Avoid that woman. She has a lead lined uterus, calloused from having many sexual liaisons with everyone from the guy with the coolest hot rod in her high school, to the college professor who gave her an easy "A," to the guy that did her in the office break room when everyone else left for the day, to exotic foreign guy who introduced her to anal, to the guy that knocked her up and left her with a constantly pouting teenager. She will also have a calloused heart. It will have been broken by the platoon (just a platoon, if she is fairly chaste by 21st century standards) of guys she swooned over, only to be pumped and dumped. She will be unable to truly love you, because by the time she "settles" for you, she has very little ability to emotionally commit.

Women attach to men like duct tape, men attach to women like Velcro.

Remember how men age like wine? Men who avoid being drained by women can accumulate enough Resources, Physicality, and Alpha Traits/social status by the time they reach their mid 30s, that they are very attractive to young, beautiful, and low mileage women ten years their junior. In the marketplace of sexual value, the reverse is not true.


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