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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:51 pm 
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Jackietrehorn wrote:
[From the RAE....

El sustantivo agua es de género femenino, pero tiene la particularidad de comenzar por /a/ tónica (la vocal tónica de una palabra es aquella en la que recae el acento de intensidad: [água]). Por razones de fonética histórica, este tipo de palabras seleccionan en singular la forma el del artículo, en lugar de la forma femenina normal la. Esta regla solo opera cuando el artículo antecede inmediatamente al sustantivo, de ahí que digamos el agua, el área, el hacha; pero si entre el artículo y el sustantivo se interpone otra palabra, la regla queda sin efecto, de ahí que digamos la misma agua, la extensa área, la afilada hacha. Puesto que estas palabras son femeninas, los adjetivos deben concordar siempre en femenino: el agua clara, el área extensa, el hacha afilada (y no el agua claro, el área extenso, el hacha afilado).
Por su parte, el indefinido una toma generalmente la forma un cuando antecede inmediatamente a sustantivos femeninos que comienzan por /a/ tónica: un área, un hacha, un águila (si bien no es incorrecto, aunque sí poco frecuente, utilizar la forma plena una: una área, una hacha, una águila). Asimismo, los indefinidos alguna y ninguna pueden adoptar en estos casos las formas apocopadas (algún alma, ningún alma) o mantener las formas plenas (alguna alma, ninguna alma).
Al tratarse de sustantivos femeninos, con los demostrativos este, ese, aquel o con cualquier otro adjetivo determinativo, como todo, mucho, poco, otro, etc., deben usarse las formas femeninas correspondientes: esta hacha, aquella misma arma, toda el agua, mucha hambre, etc. (y no este hacha, aquel mismo arma, todo el agua, mucho hambre, etc.)
- See more at: http://www.rae.es/consultas/el-agua-est ... l89nJ.dpuf

Very cool, but keep in mind that only the Spanish really care about RAE rules. The rest of the Spanish-speaking world just shrugs them off and gets on with their own business.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:43 am 
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Ilv4play wrote:
All I have to add is: No quiero agua, dame una cerveza por favor

I have a serious question about the first part of your phrase.

This confuses me to no end: WHEN to use an article, and when not to.

" No quiero agua." ... or is it " No quiero el agua." ???

And, does the context make a difference? water to drink is different than talking about water in an entire lake or river. How do you properly decide when the article "el" is needed?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:37 pm 
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Is this really a serious question? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I think a bartender in a bar (even on the beach :P ) will probably know that you are talking about wanting/not wanting a bottle/glass/cup of water, and not an ocean or lake.

BTW-technically, you should use "el" in front of agua in your example.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:54 pm 
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I cannot take credit for the following as I stole it from the web but thought it conveyed the message well as to using articles in Spanish.

¿Hablas español? El español es la lengua de la Argentina. (Do you speak Spanish? Spanish is the language of Argentina.)

If you're paying attention or are particularly analytical about words, you may have noticed something about the words el and la — words usually translated as "the" — in the above sentences. In the first sentence, español is used to translate "Spanish," but in the second sentence it's el español.

And Argentina, a country name that stands alone in English, is preceded by la in the Spanish sentence.

These differences typify just a couple of the differences in how the definite article ("the" in English and usually el, la, los or las in Spanish) is used in the two languages. Using the definite article when you shouldn't or the other way around won't make you misunderstood very often, but using it correctly will make you sound like less of a foreigner.

The easy rule: Fortunately, although the rules of using the definite article can be complex, you have a head start if you speak English. That's because nearly any time you use "the" in English you can use the definite article in Spanish. Of course, there are exceptions. Here are the cases where Spanish doesn't use the definite article while English does:

Before ordinal numbers for names of rulers and similar people. Luis octavo (Luis the Eighth), Carlos quinto (Carlos the Fifth).
Some proverbs (or statements made in a proverbial fashion) omit the article. Camarón que se duerme, se lo lleva la corriente. (The shrimp that falls asleep gets carried away by the current.) Perro que ladra no muerde. (The dog that barks doesn't bite.)
When used in nonrestrictive apposition, the article is often omitted. This usage can best be explained by example. Vivo en Las Vegas, ciudad que no duerme. (I live in Las Vegas, the city that doesn't sleep.) In this case, ciudad que no duerme is in apposition to Las Vegas. The clause is said to be nonrestrictive because it doesn't define which Las Vegas; it only provides additional information. The article isn't used. But Vivo en Washington, el estado. Here, el estado is in apposition to Washington, and it defines which Washington (it "restricts" Washington), so the article is used. Conozco a Julio Iglesias, cantante famoso. (I know Julio Iglesias, the famous singer.) In this sentence, presumably both the person speaking and any listeners know who Iglesias is, so the phrase in apposition (cantante famoso) doesn't tell who he is (it doesn't "restrict"), it merely provides additional information. The definite article isn't needed. But Escogí a Bob Smith, el médico. (I chose Bob Smith, the doctor.) The listener doesn't know who Bob Smith is, and el médico serves to define him ("restrict" him). The definite article would be used.
In certain set phrases that don't follow any particular pattern. Examples: A largo plazo (in the long run), en alta mar (on the high seas).

Far more common are cases where you don't use the article in English but you need it in Spanish. Following are the most common such uses. Keep in mind that there are some regional variations and exceptions. But this list should include most of the instances you will come across.

Days of the week: Days of the week typically are preceded by either el or los, depending on whether the day is singular or plural (the names of the weekdays don't change in the plural form).

Voy a la tienda el jueves. (I'm going to the store on Thursday.) Voy a la tienda los jueves. (I go to the store on Thursdays.) The article isn't used following a form of the verb ser to indicate which day of the week it is. Hoy es lunes. (Today is Monday.)

Seasons of the year: Seasons normally need the definite article, although it is optional after de, en or a form of ser.

Prefiero los inviernos. (I prefer winters.) No quiero asistir a la escuela de verano. (I don't want to go to the summer school.)

With more than one noun: In English, we can often omit the "the" when using two or more nouns joined by "and" or "or," as the article is understood to apply to both. That's not so in Spanish. El hermano y la hermana están tristes. (The brother and sister are sad.) Vendemos la casa y la silla. (We're selling the house and chair.)

With generic nouns: These are nouns that refer to a concept or to a substance in general or a member of a class in general, rather than a specific one (where the article would be required in both languages). No preferiría el despotismo. (I wouldn't prefer despotism.) Esto es la realidad de la vida.

(This is the reality of life.) El trigo es nutritivo. (Wheat is nutritious.) Los americanos son ricos. (Americans are rich.) Los derechistas no deben votar. (Right-wingers ought not to vote.) Escogí la cristianidad. (I chose Christianity.) Exception: The article is often omitted after the preposition de, especially when the noun following de serves to describe the first noun and doesn't refer to a specific person or thing.

Los zapatos de hombres (men's shoes), but los zapatos de los hombres (the shoes of the men). Dolor de muela (toothache in general), but dolor de la muela (a toothache in a particular tooth).

With names of languages: Names of languages require the article except when they immediately follow en or a verb that is often used of languages (particularly saber, aprender, and hablar, and sometimes entender, escribir or estudiar). The article also is required after an adverb or a preposition other than en. Hablo español. (I speak Spanish.) Hablo bien el español. (I speak Spanish well.) Prefiero el inglés. (I prefer English.) Aprendemos inglés. (We are learning English.)

With clothing, body parts and other personal items: It is very common to use the definite article in Spanish in cases where a possessive adjective (such as "your") would be used in English. Examples: ¡Abre los ojos! (Open your eyes!) Perdió los zapatos. (He lost his shoes.)

With infinitives used as subjects: El entender es difícil. (Understanding is difficult.) El fumar está prohibido. (Smoking is prohibited.)

Before the names of some countries: The names of some countries, and a few cities, are preceded by the definite article. In some cases it's mandatory or nearly so (el Reino Unido, la India), while in other cases it's optional but common (el Canadá, la China). Even if a country isn't on the list, the article is used if the country is modified by an adjective. Voy a México. (I'm going to Mexico.) But, voy al México bello. (I'm going to beautiful Mexico.) The article is also commonly used before the names of mountains: el Everest, el Fuji.

Before names of streets: Streets, avenues, plazas and similar places are usually preceded by the article. La Casa Blanca está en la avenida Pennsylvania. (The White House is on Pennsylvania Avenue.)

With personal titles: The article is used before most personal titles when talking about people, but not when talking to them. El señor Smith está en casa. (Mr. Smith is at home.) But, hola, señor Smith (hello, Mr. Smith). La doctora Jones asistió a la escuela. (Dr. Jones attended the school.) But, doctora Jones, ¿como está? (Dr. Jones, how are you?) La is also often used when speaking about a famous woman using her last name only. La Spacek durmió aquí. (Spacek slept here.)

In certain set phrases: Many of these involve places. En el espacio (in space), en la televisión (on television).


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:44 pm 
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Ilv4play wrote:
...<fantastic info>...

Thanks bud.

So, That makes sense what Orange said about the article belonging there, but I have had 2 native speakers disagree. Now, we all know that being a native speaker does not in any way make one a master of the language, and I tend to agree with Orange (as a foreign language student and fluent speaker) along with the article posted.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:09 pm 
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I'd also like to share a little anecdote regarding pronunciation, and it's importance.

Tippen and I (and company) are having a great meal in MDE last week. We are in lively (English) conversation together when the waiter comes by with a large tray of water glasses.

Tippen pauses in this gaiety to address the waiter with the following stammered phrase:
" ah ... no ... gusta ... uh ... el ... VACA! " translation: "I don't like the cow!"

Now, ol' Tippen had ordered the chicken, so the waiter was quite confused, as was I and our dinner guests (who didn't speak English well). The waiter tried to explain to Tippen that he was in fact having chicken, but ol Tippen just pushed onwards with his absolute rape of their language:
" uh ... " (waving his hand in a very nondescript way) " uh ... es ... loca (larga)... uh ... tu ... vaca!" translation: your cow is stupid/crazy!"

Clearly our table was experiencing a WTF?!?! moment, with the waiter, guests (and possibly a few of the closer tables as well) in complete twilight about what was happening with this rather happy gringo. I finally chimed in:

"Dude! You just insulted the man's cow! What the fuk are you trying to say???"

"Oh", says Tippen. "I don't want any water."

"Agua!" I say. "Not vaca!".

Tippen then poorly attempts the word "agua" with something immediately understood by the waiter as "vodka".

"oh, vodka. Sí, señor, un momento!" he says, and whisks off to fetch Tippen a bar drink.

I merely advised him as thus:

"Dude! STOP ... SPEAKING ... SPANISH!!!".

There's a lesson here. Don't be a Tippen! (sorry bud!)

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:40 pm 
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I have on of those stories too.

A few years ago, a friend of a friend said he's coming to CR. His first trip, no Spanish.

We are in a restaurant in Jaco and the waiter comes over asks if we want something to drink.

I told him what I wanted and my friend says in southern accent "Cer-vey-sa y beso"...

The waiter looked at him then looked at me, and thought he was joking but my friend wasn't laughing. I nearly fell off my chair.

Instead of asking for a "beer and a glass", the dumbass asked for "beer and a kiss"

He was going for "cerveza y vaso (pronounced baso)".


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:43 pm 
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BashfulDwarf wrote:
Ilv4play wrote:
...<fantastic info>...

Thanks bud.

So, That makes sense what Orange said about the article belonging there, but I have had 2 native speakers disagree. Now, we all know that being a native speaker does not in any way make one a master of the language, and I tend to agree with Orange (as a foreign language student and fluent speaker) along with the article posted.

Bash,
If by native you mean Tico, there's a reason they disagreed. In general, Ticos are lazy as shit and will butcher the Spanish language to make it easier to speak. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:26 pm 
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Orange wrote:
If by native you mean Tico, there's a reason they disagreed.

No. A Cuban and a Puerto Rican.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:41 pm 
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So a Cuban and a Puerto Rican walked into a bar, the Tico ducked.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:38 pm 
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Other prepositions are used with verb infinitives. The infinitive in Spanish is used in place of the English gerund (-ing form of a verb used as a noun.)

Al + infinitive Upon + verb-ing Al Salir... : upon leaving..

Antes de + infinitive Before + verb-ing Antes de desayunar... : Before having breakfast..

Después de + infinitive After + verb-ing Después de asistir a clase... : After attending class...

En vez de + infinitive Instead of + verb-ing En vez de estudiar... : Instead of studying...

Sin + infinitive Without + verb-ing Sin parar... : without stopping...

Para + infinitive In order to + verb Para llegar a tiempo... : In order to arrive on time...

Remember that Spanish verbs are not conjugated when following any preposition.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:54 pm 
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Commands and Object Pronouns!!!

I have always wondered why I see direct object pronouns at the end of conjugated verbs. I already know that they can be attached to the infinitive within a verb phrase, but you don't attach them to the conjugated singular verb ... unless ...

It is a COMMAND!

I'll tell my dog Fifi to bring in the newspaper: Bring the Paper

Fifi, Bring it!
First we form an informal command out of our verb, Traer.
To turn this into an affirmative command, we take the third person singular form (or the tú form, dropping the "s") : Trae.
We now identify our direct object (DO) - the newspaper, el periódico. It is masculine and singular, so our pronoun is lo.
We attach lo directly onto trae to form our informal command to Fifi:
Fifi, ¡Tráelo!
Notice that we need an accent mark to preserve the original pronunciation of trae.


What if we want to tell Fifi not to bring the boot? With the Informal negative commands we need to use the subjunctive form.

Don't bring it!

First we take the same verb, Traer , and identify the first person singular (Yo ) form: Traigo
Now we remove the"o" which leaves us with traig -
And we add the opposite ending "as" to = Traigas.
Now, we take our direct object pronoun and place it directly before the command after the No:
And we tell Fifi: ¡No la traigas!


Awesome!!

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:22 pm 
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When you have 2 verbs you need to decide where you want to put the pronoun. Depending on your style of speaking you either put it before the conjugated verb or attached to the end of the infinitive. It is really the speakers choice as they both mean the same thing and both are grammatically correct.

One of the websites that a teacher turned my on to is www.studyspanish.com. I found it very helpful when I was learning spanish and still use it for reference.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:53 pm 
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Ilv4play wrote:
When you have 2 verbs you need to decide where you want to put the pronoun. Depending on your style of speaking you either put it before the conjugated verb or attached to the end of the infinitive. It is really the speakers choice as they both mean the same thing and both are grammatically correct.

Yes, but when you have only 1 verb in conjugated form, and it has a D.O. pronoun attached, then it means that it is in INFORMAL COMMAND form.

"Tu lo traes." ..............
"Tu lo estas traer." .... "You are bringing it"
"Tu estas traerlo." .......

"Traelo!" ..... Bring it! <-- notice the conjugated 3rd person singular form and the pronoun placement!

Compare to:

"lo trae." ... which means "he/she/usted are bringing it."

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:49 am 
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We also use Tener to express that we "really feel like" doing something or have the desire to do something.

The expression is constructed with Tener ganas + de + infinitive:

Tengo ganas de estudiar esta mañana. I seriously have a passion to study this morning.
Tienes ganas de jugar al tenis hoy. You really want to play tenis today.
Tenemos ganas de bailar. We really feel like dancing.
Tienen ganas de ir al hospital para visitar a su primo. They really want to go to the hospital to visit their cousin.
Ustedes tienen ganas de asistir al drama. You all really have a desire to attend this play.

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