www.CostaRicaTicas.com

I guess you haven't checked out DR lately. Those waistbands better be made of some strong elastic.

-Orange

leche is the purrfect gift HAVE A GREAT SPINNER

I have checked out the Del Ray a recently as the last couple of weeks. Not one that I pulled out needed anything larger than a small

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"Life isn't like a box of chocolates...it's more like a jar of jalapenos. What you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow." SP

I very much believe in the old addage "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." I do not tip in restaurants, I have been told not to by Tica waitresses! I do not tip cabies beyond very small change <= 100 colones. I very rarely tip in a massage parlor. An exception has been at Oasis I have turned a CBJ into a BBBJ with the promise of a 1KC tip. Gentlemen the Ticos created this paradise following these kind of rules. We have created hell following the "typical" American rules. I whole heartedly suggest following the tico example. If you must act like a GringAss, please, stay in the gultch, this kind of behavior is expected there.

Right on, Tonka!

<applause> Well said.

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Pura Vulva! Wandering through the dark, I am El Ciego.

Sorry Porto Lilia but I have to call you on that one. You may think you are the king of the board, but that is because the rest of us have jobs. Your patronizing and condescending behavior is, to say the least, transparent. Like, what are you afraid of dude? That the fantasy in the gulch is after all just a fantasy??

As we used to say in the army, I have more time in a T-10 than you have in a T-shirt, which basically means regardless of how you try to de-legitimize the many years of experience that I have in Latin America, the more I just rely on the over 25 years of experience down there to tell me that you are full of crap and I have never even been on the webcam in the DL.

I had to think about these never ending missives you write over analyzing this and that, but basically trying to pick apart anyone that does not subscribe to the following theories:

1) Tica hookers have no choice but to sell their bodies, if they were in the states they would all be movies stars or doctors, but since they have absolutely no opportunity, they are all hookers, but basically nice misunderstood girls. Sorry dude that dog don't hunt, they are just the same as strippers here, women who would rather get paid for what they do on their back rather than what they do with their minds.

2) No America guy can every score with a regular tica, at least since 1998, since that time, the only choice any gringo has to get a hooker. Give me a break!!

Dude, what are you afraid of? There is a whole big country outside the gulch, you seem to be a walking 501 verb book, why not get off your bar stool and check it out?

Of course that is my opinion, I could be wrong.

TimBones,
Nicely put.

Tim,
With all due respect this latest post of yours only proves the point about what you just quoted. I wrote that nearly 2 weeks ago and now all of a sudden you are reacting defensively? Get a grip. What was so bad about that comment any way. It happens to be true that you seem to post disproportionately to threads that have been dormant a long time. I never meant to suggest that was necessarily a bad thing, only that I found that peculiar quality interesting. Besides, you left out the very next sentence in that post where I complimented you on the points raised in your previous post.

However, since you brought it up, lets look at your post.

Porto Lilia? What is that supposed to mean? I suspect it was meant as some sort of put-down given the context of the rest of your post but the reference is lost on me.

King of the board? Hardly, I constantly defer to more senior members around here whose experiences I respect (e.g. VB, Don Gordo etc.). One vet in particular, Circus, I have found myself in disagreement with on more than one occasion and yet I have always held him in high regard and I'd like to think that respect has been mutual. There are also relative newcomers to the board who I defer to for their quickly gained knowledge such as RBC100. I'm sorry if you're offended that I don't automatically think you've earned your way into those ranks just because you suddenly show up here making boastful claims of yourself and experience and make seemingly disparaging comments directed at anyone YOU feel to be playing the sucker.

Patronizing and condescending? It can hardly be patronizing if I mean what I say, which I always do. If it seems condescending to you, too bad. Either you deserve to be looked down on or you just interpret it that way because you feel inferior. I don't feel that I should look up to you just because you were in CR 20 years ago any more than I think you should look down at someone who has only been coming to CR for the past year. I've always said it doesn't have to take more than a trip or two to turn a newbie into a vet. There are many "newbies" who have already managed to figure out on their own and in reading the experiences of others the concepts that you seem to consider pearly words of wisdom handed down from decades of CR experience. Who is really being condescending here?

Fantasy in the Gulch? I seem to be the only one around here that regularly uses the term GFFE (Girl Friend Fantasy Experience) to emphasize the fantasy aspect that seems to be forgotten when guys talk of simple GFE's. I also seem to be the only one around here that routinely puts the word "novia" in quotes when talking about some guy's working girl "girlfriend". So why are we fighting each other when we are both on the same side?

Boasting of your time in a T-10 or 25 years "down there" only suggests to me that you must have a M16 stuck up your butt. The point about appearing on the webcam is that I don't take things to seriously and have a lighter side. In fact, I'm as apt as anyone else around here to make fun of my lengthy posting style - hence my choice of handle. Maybe you should lighten up a bit too.

Theory #1 - " Tica hookers have no choice but to sell their bodies". Where do you ever get this? Show me where I ever posted anything like that? The closest I ever came to anything like that was in comparing their relative compensation in CR to that of professionals in the US. I've actually said that these Ticas do have a choice many times. Here is just one that I posted not even 10 minutes before you made that comment: http://www.costaricaticas.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=71731&highlight=choice#71731

Theory #2 - "No America guy can every score with a regular tica". Again where do you ever get this? Show me where I ever posted anything like that? What I said was that most guys here, who are usually 40+, barely speak spanish if at all and only come to CR for a few weeks every few months at best (which probably describe 90% of the guys here), will have only extremely limited opportunities with YOUNG EDUCATED chicas. Unless they seek out non-pros closer to their own age, the younger chicas that they'll be MOST likely to attract are those from poorer backgrounds and the primary source of their appeal to THOSE chicas will be the economic differential that they represent. Of course, this is a virtual guarantee amongst the hardened and mercenary "hookers", but the money issue will be the paramount draw even with non-pros in the situations I've described. Of course, gringos can score with regular ticas, but dont YOU fool YOURSELF that there isn't primarily a money aspect to your success even with poor young non-pro ticas.

The following link is to a post where I explained these distinctions more fully http://www.costaricaticas.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=66827&highlight=tim#66827 (refer to paragraph 4 as it is another one of my "never ending missives"). Incidentally, you will also find in that post several instances where I complimented you including these "on Tim Bones. My issue with him is not his observations on such things as the need for speaking spanish, or that working girls always are motivated by money in their relationships no matter how much they try to fool us AND some of us fool OURSELVES. He is 100% on the mark there." and this "His posts are more insightful than 95% of the stuff written here and I agree with nearly all of his advice. If I'm wrong about the guy and offended him I sincerely apologize. " I'm sorry if you found that condescending, but I meant what I said.

Finally, as to getting outside the gulch. I'm definitely not one of those guys who come down to CR just to monger in the Gulch. Consider the term Whorticulturist and what it is supposed to mean. I don't restrict myself to the BM/KL/ZB or even to tico bars and brothels. E.g., I've been in such places as the student bars on Calle Amargura. I eat at sodas and shun places like Cocina de Lena or Nuestra Tierra. I don't shuttle around in air-conditioned vans from one tourist site to another either. I get out, walk around far and wide and take local buses to points to far to walk. And I constantly advocate that other CRTers should be more daring in these regards. So stop your own condescending remarks as we are on exactly the same page here as well.
I don't expect every body to like what I write or even to like me. I do know that many others do appreciate my contributions here. I also don't expect any of us to always agree on everything. I happen to agree with much of what you post and have said as much. I have questioned the basis of some of your assertions which you have since explained and I left it at that, but when I happen to disagree I will say so. I'm sorry if you can't take people questioning you or disagreeing with you and feel you have to respond the way you just have. I don't think I phrased any of my questions to you in an insulting manner, but if you took it that way, I apologize. For my part, I haven't taken anything you have said personally... up until now.

Prolijo,

A couple of things that I see different than you here for what it is worth.


You & many other members surely have picked up On Timbones & I have similar attitudes about the gulch scene I believe whether members see it as good or bad or what ever. We seem to say some things I believe many do not like to hear like letting a little air out of the fantasy with a touch of reality. Which someone as wise as you I would want to believe you would see this as a healthy mix to give a better overall balance to some issues. The reason I believe we tend to be so similar is we both have similar back grounds & time there with a handle on the native language. Combined we have I believe over 45 yrs experience in & out of CR. This doesn't make us wonderful by any means but there is no way at all a couple of trips to the gulch mongering around not understanding the culture & language could you be much of a vet in my humble opinion.

I spotted TimBones right off like me & the reasons why is he had the fortitude to go back & read many of the old threads & for me I comment him on his effort to really study what is going on here as a whole. Obvious when he saw something worth putting in his 2 cents he made a post. Now for me I see this as great he took his time to add to the overall experience here & many of us forget these old threads & some have been nice to see brought back to life. Look how many others have posted after him this says something doesn't it?

Anyway with as much time as we have spend it has probably jaded us in other ways many members don't quite understand because they have not been down this same path in life. TimBones can speak for himself but this is some of my take. I feel he was like me when we discovered this site in awe of guys falling for working girls to us it is insane I believe because we know how truly easy it is to find terrific things outside the gulch with really much less overall trouble in ones life.

I think we flip when we see guys taking their hard earned resources & being used & hurt & some of these guys maybe taking resources away from their own true flesh & blood families back home. Well none off my business it is their money to do what they want obvious, but for me if I could reach one guy here & it saves him from a lot of future grief it would be worth something too me. Maybe we know more than we can even explain here for a Varity of reasons. I can not speak for Tim on all this but have a feeling this is part of our similarities.

Funny to me about this many get short with the newbie’s & say go back & read the older post so Tim does this & proves it by adding to these old threads & now we have some bitching about this??( I am not saying you)
I know this is life & you can't win at pleasing everybody what else is new?

Several things you point out I feel are very, very important The GFFE should be used more than the GFE to keep a better since of reality about it all. I see this when the fresh off the plane newbie Gringos arrive. They seem to truly be in the Land of OZ. their expressions & looks are almost from another world far far away. They tend to embellish to the point all since or reality has been pushed aside & this is a very dangerous phase or state to be in. Look at the vets like VB & others that live there full time they are not over whelmed by much of anything it appears. This is I believe like Tim & I they have a strong foundation & good footing to work from, from so much experience & one I believe can only develop this over a period of more than a few trips.

The deal with a working girl being called a Novia has to GAG the true vets I believe so if you like me or hate me at least I am speaking what I feel is the truth & if you don't seek the real truth you don't have much in the end.

I think many of us are closer to being on the same page than we think. It is hard to connect the dots in the right way sometimes & some let all too few of words ruin their day when all it really is nomenclature. I think the way some of us with more time there use the forbidden P or W word over the much preferred L for many here has the hidden meaning of WAKEUP & isn't mean to be vulgar unless used like the low class post that Chica Chaser put up that K*D Cisco wrote.

I believe there is a real danger of getting a group of men together that start stoking each others new found fantasies that creates such an elusion they think it all has to be real.

But then again I could be full of shit & be all wrong in my own delusion?

A couple of quick comments.

When I said it only take it "doesn't have to take more than a trip or two to turn a newbie into a vet"I didn't mean that a 2 time visitor would be an expert on tico culture. But it doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize after spending a trip or two with the Gulch chicas to figure out what they are all about ($). Actually intelligence or experience has little to do with it. I've seen newbies figure it out very quickly (RBC is my favorite example) and I've seen long term mongers become "M-Men".

I haven't spent as much time in CR as some other guys. I've only been going there for the last 6 years or so and only a trip or two per year at that as I like to visit other places as well. But I knew within my first trip to keep the extra F in GFE. In fact, unlike Tim I even go as far to say one should keep the extra F in any relationship with a chica who is largely generationally, culturally and economically different from yourself. One can try to keep the money aspect within reasonable bonds or move on when it gets beyond those bounds but it will always be there.

Tim says don't expect to form a LTR with a working girl and seek out and date non-pros. I don't see either of those as necessarily the most worthwhile alternatives. I go to the Gulch for sex or perhaps a s/t GFFE and I see nothing wrong with that. If the relationship with a working girl starts to get too serious, I agree that is a dead-end path. But none of that means that seeking out young non-pro chicas for LTR's is the answer either. I pay them to leave. If I wanted the complications (financial and emotional) involved with a LTR, you start to loose some of the advantages of going to CR to begin with. Young ones will still be attracted primarily by money, less to be sure than it would take in the US, but still not the best basis for a relationship. Everyone extols the virtues of chicas over gringas, but you still have to deal with fits of jealousy and rage and the in-laws becomes a huge and very close extended family.

I agree that it is much better that Tim takes the time to read old posts as opposed to the many board newbies that seem to not comprehend what the search function does. I also agree that it is good to have the perspective of someone who has been coming to CR for a long time. You mentioned the risk of becoming jaded. That is not what I would call a completely healthy perspective. I think its important to have all sorts of perspectives and I think that just as often a fresher perspective can be a good thing. Besides, I have to question whether ALL the comments and conclusions made for such individuals always apply to other members who may not have the same spanish ability, developed network of local connections and length and frequency of visits. Being told in advance which places to go and approaches to take that work for seasoned vets might help a newbie to an extent, but those places and approaches may not be best for them in their circumstances.

Finally, you don't have to go to CR for 20-30 years to react the way you guys do when we read posts of guys with working girl "novias" or complying with RFM's so their chicas don't have to work at the BM, etc. I roll my eyes too. But the warnings have all been posted before and in most cases recently bumped up. I see many vets falling for these chicas, not to mention the many newbies, so I don't see experience as that big a protection. Logical warnings seem to do very little to change anything when a guy starts thinking with his heart (or in many cases his little head). Yes, I flip when I read these accounts too. I just don't get so hung up on it that that is all I post about.

This is the big key I believe to keeping oneself happy playing in CR. LTR are great WITH THE RIGHT PERSON but it is only logical one would think to only seek this way out side the Gulch. The problem for most of us is what we touch & play with we seem to automatically become attached to & after this attachment occurs then we come up with all kinds of insane ways to justify it. I will stop beating my dead horse now.

I'm glad you agree with that statement, but you didn't address my comments that the chicas that most of us will be attracted to (most likely from a wholly different cultural, generational and economic background) whether they are pro's from the Gulch or non-pro's from way outside it are going to present many though not all of the same problems as a LTR with a gringa but also many others that are unique to their culture and background. Those often include different views on time (aka lack of punctuality), jealousy, fiery tempers, possesiveness, strong family ties (which I can respect but can also be a negative if you're expected to support everyone from madre to tio jose), departures from logically thought, not to mention the standard neurosis that afflict all women at least once a month but sometimes continuously, just to name a few. How likely are we to have deep and meaningful conversations with someone who barely finished high school and whose idea of culture is the telenovelas? Finally as much as you might say opposites attract, even we didn't have national cultural differences, we grew up in widely different times and have experienced widely different life experiences. Many of us have seen our K*ds grow up and go on to college and are in no great rush to repeat that experience. For a chica in her 20's having Babi*s with her man (and staying at home raising them) is usually a high priority. I know there are also many pluses to LTRs, but I think to say its simply a matter of going way outside the gulch is an oversimplification.

For my part for now, I'll simply stick with the amigas, whether I pay them explicitly or not, and leave the "novias" for other guys. If I move to CR fulltime, I probably will try to find a novia - OUTSIDE THE GULCH. But for me (unless I got truly lucky) it would be a casual experience mainly for the sex and companionship for me, the financial security for her and fun times for the both of us. Once the emotional or financial demands got too great for what I felt I was getting out of it I'd quickly just trade her in. I have no illusions about the truly long-term potential of any chica from such a widely different background from mine. A serious LTR with a chica can happen as TMan will attest, but more often than not any young attractive chica that would become involved with even a spanish fluent middle-aged gringo ex-pat will be attracted mainly by the money and is therefore not serious LTR material.

Prolijo,

Your above post makes me think you have not really ever been that far out of the Gulch or when you have been you mind was still there. I have found plenty to be attracted too outside that even speak English have college degrees, studied some in the US or Europe. These types don't hang around where tourists go & many are happy to talk too you to practice the language with you. These types do not have the economic problems you normally are seeing. One thing for sure if you don't look for quality you will never find it. Will you be able to jump their bones fast I don't think so & this is where many men don't have the time to deal with it but they might make a nice pen pal for the future. Try it.

Zippy,
Of course, such ticas will be willing or even interested in talking to you. Dating is a slightly different story and LTR yet another story altogether.And that is exactly why your's and Tims advise to simply go outside the gulch and cultivate non-pros is not a simple solution. Most guys on this board only go to CR for a week or so at a time. A core group may go several times a year, but most go much less often than that. And this is where MOST men don't have the time to deal with it. Spending their time cultivating a penpal is not where their head is at, when by spending just a few bucks they can more effectively use their limited time to actually accomplish what they came down there to do. Get their rocks off. I agree that talking to normal ticas (and ticos too for that matter) is highly worthwhile. But if you hope to get in their pants as well (the ticas I mean) you might have to spend all of your trips trying to accomplish that, it might never happen and even if it does she might end up having a similar agenda as the chica who just asks for the money outright.

How many gringo guys, when they were middle-aged and not living full-time in CR, have had a long-term sexual relationship with a college educated tica who was at least 15 years younger than themselves and which they did not end up contributing a significant amount of money as support? If they have how many chicas did they have to approach, date and otherwise court before they struck that gold? In other words what sort of time and money investment was it before it paid off? And by longterm how long did that relationship last? My guess is that number would be extremely few.

Well I didn't say it was going to be easy. But is worth some time invested too me anyway because look at the reality of what is happening to many of these good men. Prolijo for you & I this doesn't matter I know that we, I feel are using CR to our advantage for the same thing as I feel we control the enviromnet more than it controls us but not with many men from what I read. They don't have time to invest looking for love in all the right places but have plenty of time to invest in making what they feel is a real solid connection with a working girl. When it is over look at the time spend in that path?? For the man just out sporting around no big deal don't worry be happy.

To backup what you said about wasted time which I have done several times here is one example. I like to go to the bars & discos in Escasu & met a tica attorney nice & 18 years younger than me but not as hot as some I see in HDR. We spent hours together talking & I learned alot she had studied in the states it was obvious & was a great experince. We did get close but not close enough to bump genitals together so I had a bad case of the blue balls which fortune for me I grab a cab & head out on the highway too hell down town I really shot a big load with a very hot girl prettier than the one I just left. Hey it all worked out & this is what I love about the place. If I don't get it one way I can always get it another. But maybe another man here better than me could have really connected with her & had something you never know unless you try & I only spend 4 hours with her so no biggy but worth while too me.

PS Prolijo it is nice for us I feel to exchange these thoughts in front of the other members too see all this as it is just an exchange of our thoughts & not an argument of any kind. Thanks for taking your time here.