www.CostaRicaTicas.com

If you think that's a no-brainer, think again. The easy answer is sex/money, but look behind the scenes and a different story will likely emerge. Diversion could easily be an answer to what guys want, and I believe the possibility women hold out for meeting Mr. Right is always present. We don't want to admit it, but finding Ms. Right, while perhaps via a questionable venue, remains an answer for what guys want as well, at least for some guys. I suppose you might say sex and money are the answers, and everything else is icing on the cake.

I find the first half of my trips, sex rules, and the second half I start searching for a connection in addition to the physical one. I like to talk with these girls, hang out if you will, and what I find is that they really do regard it as "work". I've often scoffed at that notion, even though I know what they often must endure. Once the sex begins, however, the human factors kick in and when it's good, it's very good. If afterward you start talking about seeing them again, or possibly (god forbid), a future, their eyes light up, if in a guarded way. It's at those moments you notice a desperation, deeply hidden, but unmistakable. Most of the other girls are colleagues only, and clients are often just that. It can be lonely for the girl, so if there is talk of some sort of continuity, whether as friends or lovers, a little humanity takes the place of that lonliness. Sure it's about sex and money, but there's a human componant too, and some of that can make a good trip a great one.

But what about actually taking it to the next level, involving, emailing, phone calls, and, ehem...sending money. Or how about if you actually spend some time at the chica's crib? Is that a natural extention of the desire for more than sex and money? Is it wise? Unavoidable? Pathetic? After all, some call these girls hookers. "Go find yourself a nice girl", says the little voice in your head.

The problem of course, is we're used to getting to 3rd base quickly and many of us don't have the patience we once did. I'm a believer in keeping civilian channels open because you never know what might blind-side you. But a steady diet of the frustrations of only civilian dating, is well in the past for most of us. I trust if we could find a civilian girl who never programmed, but who warmed up to us the way the best of the working girls do, and possessed all the skills and adventure of same, we'd be in heaven. Sometimes it happens, and those are the times you get married (twice in my life).

I used to think hobbying was biding your time between marriages. Now I'm not so sure. I fear my next wife, if there is one, may be a "former" working girl. What a concept. Scary. If that were to happen, the answers to the questions I posed would change, or would they? In the end, does sex and money add up to love? Is that what men and women are really hard-wired for? Remember Ozzie and Harriet? My, how times have changed. The oldest profession in the world has always been there, but it seems today almost a way of life. "Good girls" are figuring it out, that why not? And not just in South America, but in the nicest suburbs in Miami, too.

I think the answers to what people want are pretty universal, both in and out of the hobby. Sex, money, touch, stimulation, gratification, acceptance, freedom, love....call it what you will, a good life. But I think what Tman said in the Natal thread is right on; once a girl accepts cash for sex, her thinking is forever changed (for the worse). That's the rub; that's the fly in the oinment. The question then is, is it really so different from the way civilian women think, and a reason to never entertain anything serious with a program girl?

A good friend once told me, "Just do what makes you happy."

Hmmm... let me think about that for a minute.... Ok, find a girl who's 24, educated, beautiful, sexy, comfortable being feminine, devoted and loves sex...oh yeah, and never programmed. Good luck.

As you can tell, I have PRTSS (Post-Rio Traumatic Stress Syndrome). It's severe on this trip.

Jazz

_________________
"Don't never trust a woman, till she's dead and deep....One day she'll say she loves you, next day she'll throw you on the street."

"...and if men didn't have this unquenchable desire to have sex with women, then they wouldn't have anything to do with women at all. I certainly wouldn't..."

Yes to all 3.

Your theory, about once having received money-for-sex, the girl is forever changed in that moment, I have to wonder. I ask: Doesn't any girl who spots a guy and has material motivation behind the reason she goes his way... do the same thing? Ya the money straight up might identify her forever as a hooker, but aren't so many others doing this indirectly... every gold-digger, scamming chica, etc...


You said:



Add to this impossible list: She must also want you! Not just return interest, but in the long term she will need to be devoted too....


keep up the good work....

_________________
check yourself before you wreck yourself

Love the life, but the chicas want the money. Even if they think they can do a real relationship for a while, they are hooked on it like cocaine. They might can stop for a while but they are always vulnerable to a bigger fish. Sucks, because I've got this chick I'm crazy about, but I know I'm the poor cousin on her list now. Even though she treats me great when she is with me I can't compete with the heavy hitters. An d I don't blame her. I've known her for five years, have met her mom, sister, brother and nephew. She takes care of them all. Has never asked me for money, haha, because I AM the poor cousin. She lives totally different than any of the other chicas I've met working. Classy, dresses well, decent apt. But she still has a pecking order. But, not to be negative, I'm happy for anyone who finds love anywhere. Please be careful though.

I just got done talking to one of my regular local lady companion and she finally cleared up something that had been confusing me for some time.

A week ago she had confided that she got scammed by someone trying to sell her a new car. I won't go into the details but I was able to confirm her story as this guy had pulled the same thing on couple of other gullible folks and was in the news.

Anyway, she called me asking if I would see her. I said no problem, and we had a fairly passionate time. After that we started chatting and she made a remark that she has to raise some money quickly and needs more business. Now because of our regular association, she offers me a reduced rate. So I suggested that if she needs more business, she can always post the same reduced rate that she gives me on her ads and I am sure that would generate some interest. She said she can't do that for new clients. I said why not - she is the one who needs more business. She initially was hesitant in replying but when I persisted, she finally opened up and told me her thought process that was just an eye-opener for me.

She said that a lady going into this business typically makes a self- assessment of what she is worth. She bases that on her assessment of beauty, her inferiority or superiorty complex, and what the competetion (that they come to know of) is doing and charging. It is not easy for a lady to reduce that rate for new clients because it directly has an impact on her self-worth (unless she reduces her session time as well). Once the same client becomes a regular and is respectful and nice, she is able to reduce the rate because the client justifies her self-worth through money + behavior + actions.

A new client negotiating a rate is not the same as the lady reducing her own rate. Because during negotiation, a lady still has the ultimate control of saying yes or no and may justify her rate reduction based on desperation-level and the client's personality at that time - like a spur of the moment thing.

I am not sure if I read her thought process accurately because this is not how she explained things. But whatever I think I got from her does seem to make sense based on my personal experiences and talking to some other ladies.

Gaurav

Doesn't matter what anyone thinks. She is your favorita while you are there and paying! Sorry if you want more. It comes sooner or later.

Third - I agree with the "hooked on it" idea. Look, this girl I was "seeing" can make 5000R at Help in 5 days. Doctors in this country don't come close to that. Toss in the "goddess" phenom that happens, the perqs of wining and dining large, vacations to Buzios and other exotic places - shit, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure this puppy out.

The girl acted totally differently when she arrived to Copa than when I was with her last week in Belo Horozonte. Here she was in high gear, cranked, and very biz. I saw her the first night with 2 dudes and an amiga and she looked relaxed, happy, elegant, like she was at home. 24 hours earlier she was telling me she doesn't want to go to Help, but has to. Meanwhile, that night she did 3 guys and expected me to accept it as normal.

I saw this girls true colors and that's why you don't ever rush into things with any girl. She was actually irritated at how slowly I was going in my pursuit of her, and intimated it was because I didn't love her. No, I told her, it takes time...cool your jets. Some girls are more "casual" about working, but the poorer, prettier ones can be a cyclone.

_________________
"Don't never trust a woman, till she's dead and deep....One day she'll say she loves you, next day she'll throw you on the street."

"...and if men didn't have this unquenchable desire to have sex with women, then they wouldn't have anything to do with women at all. I certainly wouldn't..."

Jazz, your ? of course brings up alot of deep shit. I have to agree that to actualy take money is the same as actualy paying money. Justifacation on both ends are things like well you are going to pay for it one way of another. Or if you don't give him some he will move on. Whatever!

The only reason to get married is K*ds.

So I quess you live one day at a time. Enjoy the monent, Honour your word, Respect yourself and do the right thing.

Does that mean you die alone on some nursing ward without anyone at your funeral ?

You see how many things are involed in the human experence.

A guy wants to squirt his genes into as many women as possible.


A woman wants the man with the best genes available to sc#ew her to orgasm.

Pretty simple really ,everything else revolves around the above mentioned basic instincts.

What Do Guys Really Want; What Do Girls Really Want?:

After almost 59 years of experience in my own dysfunctional relationships and observing other peoples equally dysfunctional relationships my vote would go for the sex and money thing. Or to put a positive spin on it if you have enough money and she's that good at sex it could work. And to be politically correct if she has that much money and your that good at it it could work.

Lee

_________________
PS: DO NOT SEND MONEY!

50 & Dysfunctional that is what my ex wife calls me & the rest of my family as well... Jeez so deep for the new year..... I think it was simpler when you in the Italian old country you had the beautiful wife that took care of you, the house, the K*ds and let you phuck around because it was accepted (See Tony Soprano, no pun intended) the best of both worlds, yet he is disfuntional too.

OK fine.. What do girls want I TRULY DON'T HAVE A PHUCKING CLUE. I've done everything known to man to please both regular women & working women and no matter what I've done it is simply NOT ENOUGH.

Pay their bills they want love.
Give them Love they want money
Give them Love & money & they want excitement
Give them love, money, excitement, they want diversity
Give them love, money excitement & diversity they want a family
Give them all of the above and they cheat on you because your a mark and they are boored.
Treat them like dirt and they treat it as a challenge for a while to get you back or to tame you.
as stated I DONT HAVE A PHUCKING CLUE!

What do men really want Old adage of lady tiger in the bedroom, a countess in public & every derivitive off that statement well I'm still not happy.

Want the trophy Phuck sure then you want her to love you after that.
Want the sport phucking week of your life you feel empty because it has no meaning.
Want the meaningful sexual expierience with GFE traits that are genuine, you start looking for your free time so you can go back to sport phucking.

What does this all mean. WE ARE ALL PHUCKED IN THE HEAD! But at least we have Pura Vida!

_________________
The Boss of All Bosses!!! Hey I'm a drunk alcoholics go to meetings!

JM -- you've done it again, and all who followed. Really gets at the core of this new experience I've had in CR over the past year. (Last New Years' Eve was spent in the BM bar, till 5 AM, on my 1st trip)

Any providers I've really hit it off with stateside really didn't cross my mind as possible to continue with personally, because:

1) I was reading all their reviews online, and all the experiences of other guys that led me to pick them. That kind of shuts off the "exclusively mine" portion of the romantic brain. And yet some of those steamy sessions, never to be forgotten. Even a couple who got better with repetition. But still no "feelings".

2) I couldn't possibly hope to replace their income, if they were ever to quit on my account! And how could I ask that of anyone? They know that, and keep their thoughts within bounds.

3) The age discrimination thing, at work in the US, vs. that 20-year "deduction" we get to take in CR. Plus, the woman can worry that you'll always have in the back of your mind a distrust and eventually "use her past" against her.

But learning about their attitudes toward the work, and my perspectives that they might not have even thought of. I've seen it as a sort of "nun"like existence, in that the full range of their sexual choosing is put on hold, and they have to put aside most thoughts of going after their romance/family goals while they're trying to make what for them is big money. They cross a line, taking on "the profession", and they have to keep themselves there.

In other words, they set their sights on a certain goal, and it's usually kept in mind as being for a limited period of time. (Could be a rationalization: the young woman who really enjoys the random randiness, and the $$$, could forgo US family dreaming for quite a long time.)

During that time, they adopt a second -- disposable -- identity, second community of friends, work partners, clients. And, I think, they often intend to just blow town at the end of it, forget all past connections (except her bank account) and start life over as "just another girl who's dated a lot of guys." No one new she meets will ever know. (Could be harder for SJO Ticas to pull an identity switch like that?)

Now, what confuses me, is the sex part. Yeah, as usual. We guys would think that a life of having sex anytime you want, would be just peachy.

But ask a pro, and her attitude is that "it's work" and she wouldn't be doing it if she didn't need el dinero. So, it's distasteful work? Well, get her in the room and she's enthusiastically giving you the finest BBBJ of your life, and then you're hearing "Papi, Si Papi!" (which time confirms was the genuine article from the beginning.)

(And this is the point where your brain is exploding, from questioning your ENTIRE F'ING LIFE -- WHY did I ever get married? IDIOT!!! WHY didn't I come here 20 years ago?? etc etc)

So, she doesn't like it? Seems like pretty enjoyable "work", to me. WHo'd ever want to leave that? I think it's more the "crossing over" into a different category for them, rather than the burden of the individual sessions that we mostly think of. The whole life.

Well, one suspicion I have about their conflict in crossing over, is that part of normal courtship is the lady getting to choose, and getting to reject suitors. Pro work is a very different set of parameters, and I wonder if it crosses their courtship wires somehow, and disqualifies most anyone she meets that way, or at least she's somewhat on guard, until they can both back up, and get re-acquainted, maybe even needing more than most situations? And him needing to do something to distinguish himself from the rest of the pack. (Woof!) There's no cheating Cupid?

All I can think of is that for them, the sex dissociates -- it's good on its own -- it HAS to be, for them to impress you on the job. And, cross another threshold, -- we're equal in it -- why not scoop up some goodies for herself? "Que rico!"

Hey -- we perros get it up to go in 10 minutes or less, on sighting a suitable target -- we expect a match who'll light up quickly, and the ones that don't provide it, we don't see around for long. Self-selection. But, like fine wines.... (Makes me think of all the smouldering gringas I can recall who erupted out of their plain identities, given the right environment and stimulus. I've really gotta start getting out more... )

But they learn not to think of it as something pointing to a connection for their future. They've seen too many, uh, come and go. In that, they feel even FARTHER from getting something like they may want romantically. (Plus we just might not be their "type". Although, they might sense the very real Sugar Daddy possibility to override that.)

Indeed, the words came out one night quite directly, something like: "I _expect_ a man to take care of me." Without elaboration, letting me know it had been the norm in previous times. So, the availability of money will always be part of the romance for the beautiful woman in this situation. Getting over our American attitude, the myth that they're not connected, is necessary. Men have had mistresses (or polygamy) around the world, and throughout history, just our peculiar background has hidden it from us. You got what you could afford to keep. So -- how well has our "getting it for free" preoccupation worked out for us, in the USA?

I think the best among them would want to just get it established, get the mechanics of it simplified and out of the way, and get down to enjoying life together, in all the other ways that people bond. Hmmmm, now what's wrong with _that_ picture? (And of course, you've gotta be in town to really have it count for much, and yes, people always try to get away with stuff -- it's in all those French and Italian movies, isn't it?)

Most American men do not really get the sex/money connection in marriage, until after they write the Big Divorce Check. Then, do the math: "I paid X hundred dollars a pop! Coulda had a pro, and some variety. Sheesh!"

But that lure of wanting to be SPECIAL to someone, and not quite knowing what that is for each person.

One indicator for me is the ol' "paying her to go away" thing. If, when I get done with the sexo, completely drained, and I want more of her then I know I'm in deep.

When in conversation over dinner, she reveals some new side of herself that, beyond the language and cultural and distance gaps, is someone who is sharper than anyone Stateside I've known in decades, someone who seems to be ALL THERE, I'm declaring asylum here tomorrow! (But that language thing keeps me second-guessing myself.)

When, back home, I look at her photos, and realize I've magnified her beauty a couple notches beyond how others would objectively see her, I know I'm pushing the limits of "falling off the wagon again."

Capo really nailed the cycle we go 'round in, and when you find yourself doing things to break the hold that "one" seems to be getting on you, and you go in and out of it at different times, then you know it's your own fish-on-the-hook stuff you're doing to yourself. There's some lifelong stuff being hashed out, and shouldn't drag someone else along into, either.

Key would be getting to know her long enough, in enough different situations, to see if she is honest as a person outside of the chica game, and the money game.

I wonder how many of us have had a glimpse of what REALLY goes on in the dynamics of men who waltz into a poor country with a pocketful of their country's high-power money. I've gotta do a lot of equalizing to be sure there isn't a crawful of arrogance riding along with it.

If someone really shows you they want to get out of the games, then you have something. If you get fooled, then it's your own lack of perception, or not taking the time.

I'm at the point where I'm thinking, do I want to invite someone to be that serious with me, if I'm not ready to come back at the same level. I feel enough retroactive jealousy; last thing I need is a jealous Latina throwing furniture around to make her point about things I might not yet have gotten out of my system (or might never).

I guess this is a year I've learned a lot about myself (with so much help from brothers here) and just finding out how far I still have to go.

What do I want? Beauty, hot sex, intelligence, and variety. Last one's the tickler. We'll see... that ol' "have to grow up, and settle down" meme doesn't wash much anymore. But I've never found so much quality, in such variety, before CR.

A good many people on this earth have personality disorders ( one "scientific" estimate puts the figure at 5%). Most of these disorders include the inability to process emotional stimuli as "normal" people do. An example of this is Antisocial Personality Disorder (what we used to call "sociopaths").

APD's do not have emotional response to routine human interactions. They feel no true love, have a very high threshhold to fear, and experience no conscience, all without prejudice or remorse, and many times with no malice.

Studies have shown that a large percentage of males afflicted with APD spend time in prison, as do a healthy percentage of women in the "sex worker trades".

Romantics beware.

Diego and El Jefe,
Great insights.

I have been through my own roller-coaster of emotions for the last month after returning from Rio.

I'll try to keep this brief. I spent my last two days in Rio (33 straight hours) with a young lady I met in a terma.

She was sweet and sincere. She told me her life story (fortunately not every man) which included many things I would have preferred not to hear.

She's seen a lot of bad in her life including girls who have "disappeared" from the termas never to be seen again. She also told me about all the working girls who Phuck guys outside of "work" without condoms.

She was abandoned as a baby and lived in an orphanage until 3 when she was adopted and moved to Rio. Her adoption parents are dead (this item will come back later). She has no family and no other support. She rents a room from a man and his daughter in Copacabana.

She also told me of 3 men she had had personal relationships with. One, a Brazilian she lived with in Sao Paulo, had a friend track her whereabouts for a year. She didn't work and assured me she had nothing going on the side. She finally found out and told him it was over.

An Italian boyfriend couldn't shake loose from his ex-girlfriend back in Italy.

She was engaged to a German and she even visited Germany twice. He called her about 9 months ago and said he was going to work in Canada for awhile and wanted her to join him there. She said that would be great.

Before the day came for her to leave Rio who should she run into on the beach in Copa with another girl? Her fiancee. Needless to say she was PISSED! She took her ring off and shoved it in his mouth. With the other girl watching she read him the riot act and told him not only was it over but to never call her again.

He pleaded and cried to please forgive him but she was adament that it was over.

She told me that every woman she related this story to told her, "Now you have him in the palm of your hand. You can get whatever you want from him." He had already bought her a little car which she still drives.

Her amazement was not one of her "friends" took into consideration her feelings about the whole thing. As she told me more than once, "I control my money, money doesn't control me."

We hit off in much more than a sexual way. In fact the only night we actually spent together she fell asleep after a late dinner and we never even got to the sex part. Of course she made up for it in the morning.

We spoke at least every other day after I returned home and made plans for my return in March. There was never any talk of what I could do for her or "helping her out".

I even asked her about "us" and she said she wanted to see how it went in March but that we had "only been together two days. You might decide you don't want to be with me".

She hates computers but I did convince her to go to an internet cafe and read my emails and see the photos I sent of us. She even printed a few of them and show my photo to some girlfriends at her and other termas and told them "if you see this man, call me". She was protecting her interests.

She had asked me more than once if I was in Brazil.

Along the way I did begin to see a dark side to her in regards to men. Take the relationship problems I mentioned above and add in years of seeing what scum men can be (in clubs and termas where she'd worked) and you could see it had taken it's toll.

She had a particularly bad day a couple weeks ago at work. There was another girl who she always referred to as "the shitty woman" talking to a customer. This man was bad-mouthing his wife. She told me, "I know when he goes home he'll be all loving to her".

She also told me that the same evening she was with a customer in a cabine when his cellphone rang. It was his girlfriend wanting to know where he was. He lied and said he was working late and would call her in an hour.

These were both in one day. Add up similar incidents over the years and you can see what an impression they would make. Basically "All men are pigs. All men Phuck every girl they can."

(As a sidenote, the "shitty woman" just happened to be the first woman I was with in that terma. She never let me forget that.)

While many of us might hold that fantasy of having sex with any woman we are attracted to we know that it's not possible in America. In Rio it's not only possible but some actually try to make it a reality.

The amazing thing to me was how unjaded she appeared on the surface. She was sweet and thoughtful. Whenever we spoke she always asked me if I'd eaten and she never failed to ask about my mother. She would end each call with "big kisses" for me and even my stupid cat.

On Christmas eve, after trying 3 times to get a decent phone connection, we were finally able to talk. The line was still bad but we managed. In the course of the conversation I asked her to tell me again what happened to her parents. This was the one item I could not recall in her "life story".

She became upset and said, "Don't you remember I told you I was adopted? Don't you remember..."
I tried to explain, "Yes, I remember everything I just didn't remember exactly what happened to them".

She was still going off on me and somewhere through the static I heard her say "unhappy". Then either the line went dead or she hung up.

I tried for two hours to get reconnected. Only about 1 out of 10 calls even rang. This went on for 7 days until she finally answered the phone. I no more than identified who it was and the line went dead again.

Throughout that week my friend Jazz Musician was in Rio. I had him try to phone her a number of times and even he couldn't get through to her.

On Saturday (Dec. 31) he finally got hold of her just before leaving for the airport.

He said she was yelling at him that I had upset her and I was stupid and I shouldn't call her again.

He tried to get a better understanding of the problem but through her yelling and the phone static (even locally) he couldn't even get a word in. His phone card ran out after 2 or 3 minutes so he let it go.

What does all of this mean? I guess it's a blessing that I found out about the demons this woman possesses within her now instead of later. If she flipped out over something as trivial as asking about her parents (after she had already told me on the first day we spent together) I can only imagine what she might do if something serious came up.

She is not someone who you would pick out in a crowd. She has almost no chest and is not blonde or as young as many of the working girls (she's 31). Her name is never mentioned on the Brazilian website (www.hotside.com.br) that discusses the girls of Rio and Sao Paulo or any of the many English language sites (yes, I know her "working" name).

Maybe she's feeling the pressure of growing old working in a terma with no future in sight. The night she was telling me about the bad day she had she mentioned, "Maybe this is just the way my life is supposed to be".

I'm very disappointed with the way this turned out before it really got started but I'll be alright. The only thing it cost me was money for phone calls and the cost of canceling my plane reservations.

It does give me something to ponder before getting too close to a "garota de programma" or anyone else again, especially a working girl. Not that that will stop me.

You just never know who you're dealing with. Take your time and see how things go over a little time and distance.

Have fun but keep your wits about you.

Wit - You never know what's going to set off these girls. What I could get with her screaming in the phone was, as I told you, you brought up a sensitive topic at a sensitive time of the year for her, and she went off. Other girls could react the opposite, seeing your motivation as compassionate.

I'll tell you this; the non-programma girls I've met (4 over the last year) also have their own issues. They're acutely aware of how much their sisters are making, as they work their 300R/month jobs. One such girl was promising, tall, model-like, smart, wholesome, etc. She worked from 9:30 AM to midnight selling perfume EVERY PHUCKING DAY I WAS THERE! Also she, as well as another non I liked for a while, had real goofy phuckin ideas about showing affection! Either that, or I'm just really spoiled.

And then there's the "foreign" factor. I don't mean just language, but differences in culture as well, and of course, our tempory stays don't help. If one could stay for an extended period (which I hope to do next year), the dynamincs have to change with pros and nons alike. But then, some of the fantasy may be gone, as well.

Cheer up. It's over and you've got the next horizon to look over. I still don't think you should have canceled that reservation for the March trip!!

Jazz

_________________
"Don't never trust a woman, till she's dead and deep....One day she'll say she loves you, next day she'll throw you on the street."

"...and if men didn't have this unquenchable desire to have sex with women, then they wouldn't have anything to do with women at all. I certainly wouldn't..."

Jazz,
Glad to see you made it home.

I guess my timing wasn't best but geez, you'd think she would have calmed down after 6 days. A little volatile to say the least.

I haven't canceled the March reservation to RIO just yet but I'm leaning that way (maybe a small part of me wishes this woman would come to her senses and call me. Yeah, like that's going to happen).

I have other financial considerations for 2006 and travel really doesn't fit into them (re: thousands in debt). Plus I really don't want to use 6 of my 21 days off so early in the year.

Of course knowing me as I do I'll never make it until May to travel but if I do cave in it will most likely be to Costa Rica or Colombia.

I might make it back to RIO someday but as I posted on CRT before I went in November, I'd give it all up if I found the "right" woman.

Thanks again for your help and advice on this matter.
Wit

To be continued....