www.CostaRicaTicas.com

The Marketplace program on National Public Radio recently did a show entitled "Retiring to Costa Rica has Some Surprises."

For those of you who missed the show, click one of the following links to listen. It's very interesting.

http://marketplace.publicradio.org/show ... 08241.html
or
http://marketplace.publicradio.org/

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Pura Vulva! Wandering through the dark, I am El Ciego.

I can't open it. Can you give us a two paragraph summary?

I'll do better than that (and shock a few people in the process). Here's a summary in just 2 sentences.

As more gringos flock to CR to reitre and escape the high US cost of living, they bring high costs with them. Inflation has become a real and increasing problem.

BTW, you'll need RealPlayer to listen to the actual .ram file at that site.

Thanks for the summary.

Very true, mostly, in my limited experience.

Although I think a lot of it has to do with how "native" you want to go, ala living environment.

For example, in Escazu (GringoZu) the World Gym monthly membershp is $50. The other gym here costs $40 a month.

In contrast, in a residential area of Moravia, a mostly non-Gringo area on the other side of SJ, the local gym cost $15 a month. The one in the center of Moravia-- which had better equipment (and owned by Gringos)-- but still had mostly Tico patrons, was $20 a month.

So, my feeling is that the deeper you go, the cheaper it gets.

But then you don't get luxuries like Tony Romas and Bagelman's.

Oh yeah! Just look at all the "Gringo" real estate adds onthe internet, then check out the actual Tico owned realtors, and the price difference is astronomic.

I guess it is like mongers too. If you go only to the BM and don't negotiate with the $100+ girls and only eat and drink at the hotel, you will pay plenty.

And, as we all know, it you do your homework and avoid the Gringo booby traps, you can get by a whole lot cheaper.

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Tunaman

As a very happy resident of Escazu (Gringozu as Rolex calls it) I'd like to give my opinion. Most every city in the States has some upscale communities around it. They also have lower end places. You get what you pay for. If you choose a place that has less crime,better facilities,more choices of restaurants and entertainment, you normally have to pay more for it. It's the way capitalism works. My choice is not to live in a crime-ridden bario in SJ so as to really experience the Tico-lifestyle.(there are some nice barios and some not so nice) I'm not familiar with Moravia so I can not comment on it except to say that in Escazu I can taxi into SJ in less that 20 minutes,for around $5.00 most any time of the day. To me one of the highlights of living here is the wonderful lifestyle the you can enjoy for less money than a much lesser lifestyle would cost in the States. Oh and by the way,Hans Solo just moved here to Escazu and joined the World Gym. He paid $500 for the year (around $42/month) which INCLUDED 24 private sessions with a trainer.

To all you various apologists for CR, I think each side is missing the point.

First for all you live-like-a tico advocates, VB raises some good points. While it is certainly true one can avoid the worst of the gringo-caused price creep by living like a Tico, most of us are not going to want to live in a typical tico bario, which is significantly poorer and more crime-ridden than most of us are used to or alternatively go to the more remote but less expensive communities to get away from the excesses of SJ. That doesn't mean we have to go completely the other way by loading up on familiar brand-name but espensive imported goods and living in "Gringozu" (I never heard that nickname before but love it). But to the extent we want to live reasonably close to SJ (or the beach) where we can walk around after dark, in something more than a shack and treat ourselves to some imported luxuries, we will find the prices going up.

Besides ask most Ticos and they will tell you that even Ticos can't live like Ticos used to live. The problem of the squeezing of the middle class is just as severe and probably more so in CR than it is back in the US. For them it is not so much the big things but all the little things that add up. The recent rise in taxi prices is one example of that. Longer lines at budget-squeezed public health facilities is another example. I'm not saying these forms of inflation are due to Gringos bidding up prices but it still exists.

The most extreme example of gringo-caused price inflation is with the cost of beachfront property in most places around CR, even places with only relatively modest homes. One of the big advertising pitches for would-be gringo retirees is the prices charged for beachfront property vs. what it would cost back home. Its still much cheaper than in the US, but due to gringo buyers prices are increasing rapidly and is now out of the reach of most Ticos. There are beach areas that are comparatively less expensive (e.g. Playa Flamingo vs. Dominical). But as prices shoot up in Flamingo, more and more gringos search farther afield and even beach properties near Golfito increase in cost. If one compares the average cost of a beachfront property in CR to what it cost even just 10 years ago, one will see the prices are going up significantly everywhere. It doesn't matter much whether you're a tico or a gringo, you're going to have to pay much more for such properties than you used to.

In the Central Valley, the most egregious example is Gringozu but as more retirees come down and get sticker shock when they shop around such traditional gringo enclaves they also look in other nicer areas such as Rohrmoser, Sabana Sur, Bario Dent, San Pedro or even further out in areas around Heredia, Alajuela even out to Atenas. R.E. prices in all these areas have also been going up significantly and can be expected to go up even more as more gringos arrive.

This brings me to my next point. Comparing one community within CR versus another only camouflages the fact that prices are going up significantly everywhere in CR. Of course, it is much worse in the some places than others. But look in any given place and you will see that the prices are higher today than they were for similar places in the exact same area just a few years ago.

Sorry, Bob, but that argument sounds suspiciously like the rationale some gringos use when they pay CIEN/HORA at the BM. The point is not what it costs compared to the US. The point is what it costs now compared to what it used to cost HERE. AND what its GOING to cost not so far down the road when even more gringos such as yourself make the jump to CR and continue to bid up prices using that reasoning. I don't think costs will ever catch up to the US, so you're probably right that it will always be cheaper than the US. Part of that is because there are other factors or trade-offs that make it less desirable for most gringos to want to live here even with the cheaper prices. But as long as many gringos do move here and are willing and able to pay higher prices, the cost of living will continue to "chase" that in the US.

BTW, VB, I pay $22/mo for my gym membership here in the US (and from what I've seen of PT's in CR, they're pretty useless)

I fear we are bordering on that female trait of whining when there is no solution. I can't see any way to keep overall prices from rising. There are other countries, some close by, with lower costs of living. If I get to the point of not being able to afford Costa Rica I can move to Panama, Nicaragua, Colombia or whatever. I wouldn't have minded if my home town in Northern California was still affordable, but it isn't. Time marches on and things change.

My rent in San Jose, in a nice enough area, is about 160 a month, USD. Other costs are still quite affordable for me. I can't live like a rock star but after all, they tend to die young anyway. I prefer to see the last reel of the movie.

From what I see, the real reason for the growing gap between rich and poor in CR is the birthrate. There just aren't jobs for that many K*ds as they grow up. Which is why I think there will always be plenty of 'workers' available in 'the business.' I don't much care if the pros in the Blue Marlin ask cien or dos cien. I won't pay either and only hang out there to watch the show or find a bargain. I have yet to pay more than 20k colones (though I haven't hit on the obvious hotties).

Anyway, I think we should appreciate what we have and go with the flow. On the other hand, perhaps it does us good to 'emote' about the good old days.

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"The only normal people are those you don't know very well." Joe Ancis

Bilko,
I wouldn't call it whining. We didn't start this topic. It was an independently produced radio program that raised the issues of gringo retirement to CR, the fact that is not all a bowl of roses and the fact that one of the negatives is at least in part a result of the migration itself. Some questioned these facts, but they certainly have at least some validity. Does that mean that CR is no longer a desirable destination for retirement? That is a question only each individual can answer for themselves. Is such commentary in the general media a bad thing? Not if it reduces some of the flow to CR, reducing the some of the negative consequences of that flow and leaving it for the rest of us who are willing to accept the bad along with the good.

I think I was, if not on the leading edge of those that considered CR for retirement, ahead of the deluge that has made the jump in the last 5-6 years. Five years ago I would gush enthusiastically about what a great country CR could be for retirement. Now I mostly keep my mouth shut for my own selfish reasons. So I certainly don't mind seeing news programs like this as it doesn't tell me anything new.

The same qualities that make for successful expats and that make them willing to consider places like CR when it was still just establishing itself as a retirement destination, or that make them flexible and reactive to new environments and open to the idea of other destinations, will be their saving grace. You are absolutely right. Go with the flow, enjoy it while it is still good, be flexible and adaptive enough to know how to live in a different culture, and be ready to make a jump to the next "CR" when the benefits of life there fail to measure up to what can be enjoyed elsewhere. Some say Nicaragua is the next CR, currently lacking the stability and infrastructure of CR, but still dirt cheap. Of course, its only a matter of time before bargain seeking gringos move there too, bringing money that will help build roads and facilities but also the the other negative aspects of cocacolonialism.

Althoguh I think there will be an influx when the baby boomers start retiring and coming here in mass, I think that five years later, you're going to see a deflation in prices, also.

Many will return home, realizing that living in a foreign country, with adifferent culture and having to learn a different language is just too difficult.

And it is! It really requires a special breed of person to be able to pull it off. And it's definitely going to be a hell of a lot easier here than in Nicaragua.

Do they have a Bagelman's in Nicaragua?

This discussion is a moving target as laws are being contemplated and passed periodically in each Central American country that either enhances or discourages retirement and foreign investment. CR is currently contemplating major tax code changes that will hit foreign residents and property owners hard. At that point you WILL see major money flow to other countries like Panama...and yes, even Nicaragua, Colombia and Argentina.

After living going on 4 years in CR, my bottom line on CR's only advantage over Panama and other regional destinations is...CHICAS CHICAS CHICAS. That is what keeps most of the expat guys I know here. Residency, doing business, and real estate prices are all easier and better in Panama and elsewhere. That is why I will have my residence in Panama City by October. Dont worry...I'll still be part time in CR...PARTLY because of the CHICAS ...

Oh...PS Rolex...it is a statistic that 80% of new foreign residents in Costa Rica will return to live in their native country within 2 years...I made it almost 4...but am NOT moving back to my native country ...

TMan wrote:



Interesting statistic but without some factual document it is just a statement thrown out in a discussion without any supporting information.

Can you provide some documentation to support that statement?

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Pura Vida
Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four
essential food groups:
alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat.
Alex Levine

Sorry...should have given credit for the quote. Came from the monthly seminar and statistics tracked by the Association of Residents of Costa Rica. Their website is http://www.arcr.net/

From what I have seen the past almost 4 years, I totally believe the stat from first hand observations as well...

The main problem with both Panama is that it's hot as hell. (Which hasn't stopped people from buying property on the coast here in CR, I guess.) But I think many people move to CR to escape the oppressive heat of the South and East Coast of the U.S. (And of course, because it's cheaper too.)

But my understanding-- and I could be wrong on this-- is that the general Escazu/Rohrmoser/Pavas area has the highest concentration of Gringos in the country. And I think it's mostly because of the fantastic weather.

I don't know if I could ever live in Panama-- although I'm definitely going to check it out-- because of the heat. And the areas like the Boquete region are (from what I've read online) already bid up to CR prices. Plus, it's FAR from the intl' airport and major western-style service. Please correct me if I'm wrong, as my research hasn't gone that deep, yet.

As for Nicaragua-- it's becoming more poliically unstable by the week. I don't see it being the next CR anytime soon, unless the economy stabilizes and the Ortega somehow doesn't return to power.

I am curious as to why Santiago, Chile and Uruguay haven't become greater expat areas?

BTW Gym is great ... I have scoured several from downtown to San Pedro to TRYP Corobici ... and for me I made the right choice ... to each there own.