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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:58 am 
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July 4th celebrations.....Take a few moments from frolicking and loving on chicas to read this.

Probably 95% or more of the existing American public have no clue as to what the original founders of our Constitution and Declaration of Independence sacrificed after signing those parchment papers of history. They and their families were tormented, abused, forced into bankruptcy, exiled or killed.

As you know, I am no longer a regular poster on this venue. But, when it comes to American history that sadly so few acknowledge, I feel it is a duty to enlighten citizens just why they are fortunate to live in this country. Not political.....just a glimpse of what a few brave men did to give us the freedom that we have. Hundreds of thousands of military / patriot men and women have given the ultimate sacrifice to uphold what those brave men did since this nation's inception.

A well known article and seeded in fact follows:


"Our Lives, Our Fortunes, Our Sacred Honor"

It was a glorious morning. The sun was shining and the wind was from the southeast. Up especially early, a tall bony, redheaded young Virginian found time to buy a new thermometer, for which he paid three pounds, fifteen shillings. He also bought gloves for Martha, his wife, who was ill at home.

Thomas Jefferson arrived early at the statehouse. The temperature was 72.5 degrees and the horseflies weren't nearly so bad at that hour. It was a lovely room, very large, with gleaming white walls. The chairs were comfortable. Facing the single door were two brass fireplaces, but they would not be used today.

The moment the door was shut, and it was always kept locked, the room became an oven. The tall windows were shut, so that loud quarreling voices could not be heard by passersby. Small openings atop the windows allowed a slight stir of air, and also a large number of horseflies. Jefferson records that "the horseflies were dexterous in finding necks, and the silk of stockings was nothing to them." All discussing was punctuated by the slap of hands on necks.

On the wall at the back, facing the president's desk, was a panoply -- consisting of a drum, swords, and banners seized from Fort Ticonderoga the previous year. Ethan Allen and Benedict Arnold had captured the place, shouting that they were taking it "in the name of the Great Jehovah and the Continental Congress!"

Now Congress got to work, promptly taking up an emergency measure about which there was discussion but no dissension. "Resolved: That an application be made to the Committee of Safety of Pennsylvania for a supply of flints for the troops at New York."

Then Congress transformed itself into a committee of the whole. The Declaration of Independence was read aloud once more, and debate resumed. Though Jefferson was the best writer of all of them, he had been somewhat verbose. Congress hacked the excess away. They did a good job, as a side-by-side comparison of the rough draft and the final text shows. They cut the phrase "by a self-assumed power." "Climb" was replaced by "must read," then "must" was eliminated, then the whole sentence, and soon the whole paragraph was cut. Jefferson groaned as they continued what he later called "their depredations." "Inherent and inalienable rights" came out "certain unalienable rights," and to this day no one knows who suggested the elegant change.

A total of 86 alterations were made. Almost 500 words were eliminated, leaving 1,337. At last, after three days of wrangling, the document was put to a vote.

Here in this hall Patrick Henry had once thundered: "I am no longer a Virginian, sir, but an American." But today the loud, sometimes bitter argument stilled, and without fanfare the vote was taken from north to south by colonies, as was the custom. On July 4, 1776, the Declaration of Independence was adopted.

There were no trumpets blown. No one stood on his chair and cheered. The afternoon was waning and Congress had no thought of delaying the full calendar of routine business on its hands. For several hours they worked on many other problems before adjourning for the day.
Much To Lose

What kind of men were the 56 signers who adopted the Declaration of Independence and who, by their signing, committed an act of treason against the crown? To each of you, the names Franklin, Adams, Hancock and Jefferson are almost as familiar as household words. Most of us, however, know nothing of the other signers. Who were they? What happened to them?

I imagine that many of you are somewhat surprised at the names not there: George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Patrick Henry. All were elsewhere.

Ben Franklin was the only really old man. Eighteen were under 40; three were in their 20s. Of the 56 almost half - 24 - were judges and lawyers. Eleven were merchants, nine were landowners and farmers, and the remaining 12 were doctors, ministers, and politicians.

With only a few exceptions, such as Samuel Adams of Massachusetts, these were men of substantial property. All but two had families. The vast majority were men of education and standing in their communities. They had economic security as few men had in the 18th Century.

Each had more to lose from revolution than he had to gain by it. John Hancock, one of the richest men in America, already had a price of 500 pounds on his head. He signed in enormous letters so that his Majesty could now read his name without glasses and could now double the reward. Ben Franklin wryly noted: "Indeed we must all hang together, otherwise we shall most assuredly hang separately."

Fat Benjamin Harrison of Virginia told tiny Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts: "With me it will all be over in a minute, but you, you will be dancing on air an hour after I am gone."

These men knew what they risked. The penalty for treason was death by hanging. And remember, a great British fleet was already at anchor in New York Harbor.
They were sober men. There were no dreamy-eyed intellectuals or draft card burners here. They were far from hot-eyed fanatics yammering for an explosion. They simply asked for the status quo. It was change they resisted. It was equality with the mother country they desired. It was taxation with representation they sought. They were all conservatives, yet they rebelled.

It was principle, not property, that had brought these men to Philadelphia. Two of them became presidents of the United States. Seven of them became state governors. One died in office as vice president of the United States. Several would go on to be U.S. Senators. One, the richest man in America, in 1828 founded the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad. One, a delegate from Philadelphia, was the only real poet, musician and philosopher of the signers. (It was he, Francis Hopkinson not Betsy Ross who designed the United States flag.)

Richard Henry Lee, a delegate from Virginia, had introduced the resolution to adopt the Declaration of Independence in June of 1776. He was prophetic in his concluding remarks: "Why then sir, why do we longer delay? Why still deliberate? Let this happy day give birth to an American Republic. Let her arise not to devastate and to conquer but to reestablish the reign of peace and law.

"The eyes of Europe are fixed upon us. She demands of us a living example of freedom that may exhibit a contrast in the felicity of the citizen to the ever-increasing tyranny which desolates her polluted shores. She invites us to prepare an asylum where the unhappy may find solace, and the persecuted repost.

"If we are not this day wanting in our duty, the names of the American Legislatures of 1776 will be placed by posterity at the side of all of those whose memory has been and ever will be dear to virtuous men and good citizens."

Though the resolution was formally adopted July 4, it was not until July 8 that two of the states authorized their delegates to sign, and it was not until August 2 that the signers met at Philadelphia to actually put their names to the Declaration.

William Ellery, delegate from Rhode Island, was curious to see the signers' faces as they committed this supreme act of personal courage. He saw some men sign quickly, "but in no face was he able to discern real fear." Stephan Hopkins, Ellery's colleague from Rhode Island, was a man past 60. As he signed with a shaking pen, he declared: "My hand trembles, but my heart does not."
"Most Glorious Service"

Even before the list was published, the British marked down every member of Congress suspected of having put his name to treason. All of them became the objects of vicious manhunts. Some were taken. Some, like Jefferson, had narrow escapes. All who had property or families near British strongholds suffered.

· Francis Lewis, New York delegate saw his home plundered -- and his estates in what is now Harlem -- completely destroyed by British Soldiers. Mrs. Lewis was captured and treated with great brutality. Though she was later exchanged for two British prisoners through the efforts of Congress, she died from the effects of her abuse.

· William Floyd, another New York delegate, was able to escape with his wife and Ch*ldren across Long Island Sound to Connecticut, where they lived as refugees without income for seven years. When they came home they found a devastated ruin.

· Philips Livingstone had all his great holdings in New York confiscated and his family driven out of their home. Livingstone died in 1778 still working in Congress for the cause.

· Louis Morris, the fourth New York delegate, saw all his timber, crops, and livestock taken. For seven years he was barred from his home and family.

· John Hart of Trenton, New Jersey, risked his life to return home to see his dying wife. Hessian soldiers rode after him, and he escaped in the woods. While his wife lay on her deathbed, the soldiers ruined his farm and wrecked his homestead. Hart, 65, slept in caves and woods as he was hunted across the countryside. When at long last, emaciated by hardship, he was able to sneak home, he found his wife had already been buried, and his 13 Ch*ldren taken away. He never saw them again. He died a broken man in 1779, without ever finding his family.

· Dr. John Witherspoon, signer, was president of the College of New Jersey, later called Princeton. The British occupied the town of Princeton, and billeted troops in the college. They trampled and burned the finest college library in the country.
· Judge Richard Stockton, another New Jersey delegate signer, had rushed back to his estate in an effort to evacuate his wife and Ch*ldren. The family found refuge with friends, but a Tory sympathizer betrayed them. Judge Stockton was pulled from bed in the night and brutally beaten by the arresting soldiers. Thrown into a common jail, he was deliberately starved. Congress finally arranged for Stockton's parole, but his health was ruined. The judge was released as an invalid, when he could no longer harm the British cause. He returned home to find his estate looted and did not live to see the triumph of the Revolution. His family was forced to live off charity.

· Robert Morris, merchant prince of Philadelphia, delegate and signer, met Washington's appeals and pleas for money year after year. He made and raised arms and provisions which made it possible for Washington to cross the Delaware at Trenton. In the process he lost 150 ships at sea, bleeding his own fortune and credit almost dry.

· George Clymer, Pennsylvania signer, escaped with his family from their home, but their property was completely destroyed by the British in the Germantown and Brandywine campaigns.

· Dr. Benjamin Rush, also from Pennsylvania, was forced to flee to Maryland. As a heroic surgeon with the army, Rush had several narrow escapes.

· John Martin, a Tory in his views previous to the debate, lived in a strongly loyalist area of Pennsylvania. When he came out for independence, most of his neighbors and even some of his relatives ostracized him. He was a sensitive and troubled man, and many believed this action killed him. When he died in 1777, his last words to his tormentors were: "Tell them that they will live to see the hour when they shall acknowledge it [the signing] to have been the most glorious service that I have ever rendered to my country."

· William Ellery, Rhode Island delegate, saw his property and home burned to the ground.
· Thomas Lynch, Jr., South Carolina delegate, had his health broken from privation and exposures while serving as a company commander in the military. His doctors ordered him to seek a cure in the West Indies and on the voyage, he and his young bride were drowned at sea.

· Edward Rutledge, Arthur Middleton, and Thomas Heyward, Jr., the other three South Carolina signers, were taken by the British in the siege of Charleston. They were carried as prisoners of war to St. Augustine, Florida, where they were singled out for indignities. They were exchanged at the end of the war, the British in the meantime having completely devastated their large landholdings and estates.

· Thomas Nelson, signer of Virginia, was at the front in command of the Virginia military forces. With British General Charles Cornwallis in Yorktown, fire from 70 heavy American guns began to destroy Yorktown piece by piece. Lord Cornwallis and his staff moved their headquarters into Nelson's palatial home. While American cannonballs were making a shambles of the town, the house of Governor Nelson remained untouched. Nelson turned in rage to the American gunners and asked, "Why do you spare my home?" They replied, "Sir, out of respect to you." Nelson cried, "Give me the cannon!" and fired on his magnificent home himself, smashing it to bits. But Nelson's sacrifice was not quite over. He had raised $2 million for the Revolutionary cause by pledging his own estates. When the loans came due, a newer peacetime Congress refused to honor them, and Nelson's property was forfeited. He was never reimbursed. He died, impoverished, a few years later at the age of 50.
Lives, Fortunes, Honor

Of those 56 who signed the Declaration of Independence, nine died of wounds or hardships during the war. Five were captured and imprisoned, in each case with brutal treatment. Several lost wives, sons or entire families. One lost his 13 Ch*ldren. Two wives were brutally treated. All were at one time or another the victims of manhunts and driven from their homes. Twelve signers had their homes completely burned. Seventeen lost everything they owned. Yet not one defected or went back on his pledged word. Their honor, and the nation they sacrificed so much to create is still intact.

And, finally, there is the New Jersey signer, Abraham Clark.

He gave two sons to the officer corps in the Revolutionary Army. They were captured and sent to that infamous British prison hulk afloat in New York Harbor known as the hell ship Jersey, where 11,000 American captives were to die. The younger Clarks were treated with a special brutality because of their father. One was put in solitary and given no food. With the end almost in sight, with the war almost won, no one could have blamed Abraham Clark for acceding to the British request when they offered him his sons' lives if he would recant and come out for the King and Parliament. The utter despair in this man's heart, the anguish in his very soul, must reach out to each one of us down through 200 years with his answer: "No."

The 56 signers of the Declaration Of Independence proved by their every deed that they made no idle boast when they composed the most magnificent curtain line in history. "And for the support of this Declaration with a firm reliance on the protection of divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor."
My friends, I know you have a copy of the Declaration of Independence somewhere around the house - in an old history book (newer ones may well omit it), an encyclopedia, or one of those artificially aged "parchments" we all got in school years ago. I suggest that each of you take the time this month to read through the text of the Declaration, one of the most noble and beautiful political documents in human history.

There is no more profound sentence than this: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness..."

These are far more than mere poetic words. The underlying ideas that infuse every sentence of this treatise have sustained this nation for more than two centuries. They were forged in the crucible of great sacrifice. They are living words that spring from and satisfy the deepest cries for liberty in the human spirit.

"Sacred honor" isn't a phrase we use much these days, but every American life is touched by the bounty of this, the Founders' legacy. It is freedom, tested by blood, and watered with tears.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:22 am 
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bravo my friend, good words to reflect upon this independence day

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:54 am 
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how many were slave owners?

how many indians did they swindle displace or just plain murder in they quest for greater riches and self government.

while their acts were courageous, they were serving their own interest

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:53 pm 
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While all economic classes of citizens benefit to a greater or lesser degree today, what Brother MrBlack said has resonance. This was an upper middle class revolution fostered by white males eager to pursue their own interests, free of the King's taxes and restraints--that others below them benefited was merely a fringe benefit, not an objective.
Now this got me into a shitstorm when I mentioned it at work but--would African-Americans have been quite so eager to join in this Revolution had they known they'd for the most part have to endure slavery 68 years longer than their counterparts in the British Empire?--England abolished this horrid practice in their Colonies in 1807. And maltreatment of Native Americans and other people originally here (for which read Hispanics in territories wrenched away from Spain and Mexico) continues to this day.
Oh, and add to the list of the oppressed--all women. It doesn't take a close reading of Howard Zinn's opus A Peoples History of the United States to see all this. I knew all this back in the day, and still spent 6 years in the US Marines including 2 years in Viet Nam by choice--because the call to the colors was my duty as a citizen.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:16 pm 
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sure and all they contributed was one of the greatest countries in history. was it perfect? of course not. but when was it again that a great nation needed to apologize for every flaw in its creation?
the mistakes have been over corrected, that is unless you are in line for restitution.
might as well close these threads now cause its going to get ugly.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:53 pm 
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No need for anyone to get ugly. This event was over a couple of centuries ago and we can leave today's politics alone. Just don't go there. Besides, 4th of July is only two days away.

I would like to add a little more history to my previous post.

The intent of my post was to remind or make aware of the sacrifices that the founders made in signing the Declaration of Independence. From 1st grade to 12th grade, these facts cannot be found in today’s history books. However, a number of school textbooks do reveal slave ownership by some of the founders. That is a fact and certainly should be revealed.

The ones that were involved in slave trading or ownership were indeed wrong. As wrong as just about every country during those times that enslaved people. It may detract but it does not disqualify the achievement of these founders and the sacrifice they eventually made. That document finally became a mainstay in freeing slaves and giving equal rights to women.

Mr. Black made mention of our treatment of Native Americans. I agree. A sore subject with me… in that I have a strong ancestry with the Sioux. Did you know that slavery existed among Native Americans before it was introduced by the Europeans. Also a number of Indian tribes owned black slaves….several thousand with the Cherokee owning the most. It’s a little published fact. Look it up.

Tickles the shit out of me that they are now raking in millions from all races with casinos in several states. Damn sure took some of my dinero at the Hard Rock in Lauderdale....got scalped.

Thank God slavery was abolished in the 1860’s, at least in this country. Yet, it was still practiced in Central and South America into the 1900’s.

Although slavery has been practiced for thousands of years, it is cruel, demeaning and an abomination to practices of humans. The sad reality is that is still practiced widely in several African and Asian counties today. Thousands of young sons and daughters are sold by Muslims every year….despicable but sadly true. Look up the “dancing boys” on Utube…pedifiles running amok.

Yep, I’ll take our founding fathers over some of the horrible practices in the world today. At least they could craft a document that ultimately gave birth to this great nation.

And by the way, we don’t burn witches anymore…..but some countries do.

Happy 4th to all of you....just be careful out there.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:55 pm 
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Uhh... I will practice restraint by following the rules not touching this thread. Happy Independence day to all!!!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:23 pm 
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Haywood Jablommi wrote:
Uhh... I will practice restraint by following the rules not touching this thread. Happy Independence day to all!!!


+ 1

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:29 am 
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These guys you're talking about would have been hung as traitors--an instant death. Their followers would have been subjected to severe sanctions and been hounded by the Brits all their days. So you have a choice--instant death or the death of a thousand cuts--which would you choose?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 4:19 am 
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This topic could go on for quite some time. Empire building by, well, large Empires has been going forever. Slavery still exists, although the slaves are paid and very little. Each time you shop at the large "Marts" that import cheap goods from China and elsewhere you are contributing to essentially slave labor. We, here in the USA, are infect contributing to our own downfall by outsourcing so many manufacturing jobs and services overseas. Ross Perot was right years ago when he said you are going to hear a great big sucking sound heading south of the border with these free trade agreements. Now it's not only south of he border, but to other parts of the world that once we here had good paying jobs are being whored out to other countries at the expense of our diminishing middle class. Sins of our past coming back to haunt us? Or maybe just greed as it has always been? Nothing really changes it just takes on different forms. I am all for free market economies. Things just need to be kept in check. If not there is an imbalance. It's by the people for the people not by the corporations for the corporations. That is what the majority of the sheep do not understand and are misled in the way they think and most importantly vote. I wish everyone here a Happy Fourth of July and that all us will take our part in making this country and the world a ever increasingly better place to live in.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:49 am 
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YO grumps:

It certainly appears that I am in a very distinct minority that appreciates what our founding fathers gave to us. Mostly all I seem to be hearing is how bad this nations is.....no reflecting appreciation for the sacrifices that gave us the freedoms that we now have.

Yes, our ancestors were imperfect but we carry the same imperfections. Can anyone here point out a perfect nation?

Again, I introduced my original post to acknowledge what the founders sacrificed in building this country. I had hoped to see how many had appreciation for their efforts. It apparently fell mostly on deaf ears.

Remember....4th of July....an innocent post of what that date is about. Sadly, for many folks, it is only a day to party, be off from work or get paid the next day for doing nothing. Perhaps an outsource for Patriotic recollection.

One of the reasons that I deleted some former posts about patriotism. This one will also go by the wayside.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:08 am 
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Circus, I for one appreciate your posts and feel very strongly about what our founding fathers accomplished,Most people are like sheep in this country and just follow the heard, and have no idea that we are unique as a Nation, The Constitution made us a nation of Kings but people don't realize this.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:39 am 
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circus- disagreement doesn't mean disrespect. the founding fathers definitely put their thing down, took control of destiny and changed the world but when others seek this same control of their land they are called terrorist just as the patriots were called.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 10:01 am 
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Interesting point Mr. Black.

I don't recollect the Continental Army being called terrorists but they did practice guerrilla tactics. General Nathanael Greene's army had the tenacity to keep the British troops from making strategic headway by using these tactics. Similar to the "Swamp Fox" during the Civil War. But, revolutionaries they were indeed. Interesting that only 40 to 45% of the colonists supported the war in the 1770's. Very much like today except not on this nation's own soil.

Thanks to France and Spain, the British were unable to utilize their command of the seas to really take control. Without their help, I doubt that our forefathers would have been able to pull it off. Just my opinion.

I suppose due to my Native American linkage, one thing that the U.S. did shortly after the war ruffled my feathers. In the Treaty of Paris after the Revolution, the British had ceded the lands between the Appalachian Mountains and the Mississippi River to the United States, without consulting the Shawnee, Cherokee, Choctaw and other smaller tribes who lived there. Because many of the tribes had fought as allies of the British, the United States compelled tribal leaders to sign away lands in postwar treaties, and began dividing up these lands for settlement. This provoked a war in the Northwest Territory in which the U.S. forces performed poorly; the Battle of the Wabash in 1791 was the most severe defeat ever suffered by the United States at the hands of American Indians." So began the demise of Native American's way of life.

Terrorists? Probably more so in the late 1800's when several U.S. Cavalry episodes murdered men, women and Ch*ldren of Native American tribes. I have a lot of disdain for those horrible raids. On the other hand, certain tribes did the same to white civilian settlers taking their land.

The short history of this country is amazing. I wish every parent would take time to enlighten their Ch*ldren on factual, not one-sided, history. The school textbooks fail in this manner....just as they did prior to civil rights Act 1964 and for years after. Very little was taught about the lives, achievements and contributions of black Americans. Really amazing how many different cultures / ethnicities contributed to forming this nation.

Well, I've probably bored the shit out of everyone. The 4th of July brings that out of me. Time for a vodka sunrise on ice and a cigar.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:25 pm 
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