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Warning for "Perpetual Tourists"
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Author:  VegasBob [ Sun May 03, 2009 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Warning for "Perpetual Tourists"
For those of you who don't know what the Perpetual Tourist means I guess you don't have to worry about this post. This designation is for those of us who live here in CR but don't have residency. To qualify we must leave the country every 90 days for a period of at least 72 hours.Enforcement has been pretty loose for quite some time. The penalty for violations was $10/day if you were caught exceeding the 90 days.

Well things have changed. A close friend of mine who has been living here for a few years last week was stopped by immigration trying to get in a plane from Pavas airport to Liberia. Even though he wasn't leaving the country they still checked his passport very carefully. They discovered that for the first time,he was 22 days over on his 90 days. They took him to their office and grilled him for quite some time.They took his passport and told him he had to make an appointment in Tibas to argue his case.The $10/day rule has been changed. You now face "AUTOMATIC DEPORTATION" with no return for a minimum of 5 years. He had to hire an immigration lawyer to fight his case,which will cost him between $1250 and $2500 depending if his appeal is accepted. The worst part of all this is that he and I got all our paperwork for residencies a few years ago But the asshole lawyer FORGOT to file for us so our paperwork became too old.

Bottom line..... if you are here on a "perpetual tourist" visa....be careful to leave when you are supposed to. They are really out to get us.
Author:  Prolijo [ Sun May 03, 2009 1:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
VB,
That is unfortunate. Be sure to let us know how it works out for him. I mean, it is already pretty bad that he will have to pay that much for legal fees but it could be much worse if he is deported and is forced to abandon the life he has created for himself in CR. Even if they were still "just" fining you $10/day, that could add up to a pretty significant amount (in your buddy's case $220 but possibly considerably more for more serious "scofflaws").

Playing the devil's advocate here for just a moment. One can't really fault CR too much for enforcing laws that had really been on the books all along even if that enforcement had been pretty loose up to now. The tourist visa was never intended for people who were really LIVING in CR rather than just VISITING and exiting the country for AT LEAST 3 days before returning for another "visit" was always really just putting a legal fig leaf over your real status as a way to avoid going through the much more involved process of applying for legal residency under some other visa category. Would you be happier if instead of increasing the penalty they changed the required time outside the country from 3 days to 30? Or if they said one could extend their tourist visas after 90 days but only 3-4 times (ie for no more than a year total)? If I were you I'd just be glad that they're still only making you leave the country for just 3 days out of every 90 and then doing that for as many times as you like. If you can't even satisfy that little requirement, then maybe you actually deserve the harsher penalties that they're beginning to mete out.

The real problem here, for us would-be ex-pats to CR, is that they don't make the alternatives any easier. You mentioned the screw-up by the lawyer in getting your bonafide residencies processed. Unfortunately CR is not just cracking down on Perpetual Tourists. At the same time they're making it harder for guys like you and your friend, they're also increasing the requirements for the various residency visas too. So do you try again to jump through all the hoops for that, now that they're raised those hoops even higher than they were when you last applied, or do you continue to play the Perpetual Tourist game and pray they don't tighten the rules on that or catch you going over 90? I don't envy anyone those choices.

Last comment. I realize that the huge influx of gringo expats may seem to some ticos to be at best a 2 edged sword, but do the legislators and government officials who are changing these laws just placating local sentiment or are they seriously considering the potential economic impact of their decisions. Love us or hate us, gringo ex-pats bring a lot of money into the local economy. And it can't be that good for their economy to raise the barriers to entry for us at a time when the world economy may be forcing many of us to back off from our plans to move to CR or alternative turn our eye to other countries (like Panama) which have not raised property prices nearly as much OR imposed the sort of draconian residency requirements that CR has.
Author:  Irish Drifter [ Sun May 03, 2009 2:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Prolijo wrote:

Last comment. I realize that the huge influx of gringo expats may seem to some ticos to be at best a 2 edged sword, but do the legislators and government officials who are changing these laws just placating local sentiment or are they seriously considering the potential economic impact of their decisions. Love us or hate us, gringo ex-pats bring a lot of money into the local economy. And it can't be that good for their economy to raise the barriers to entry for us at a time when the world economy may be forcing many of us to back off from our plans to move to CR or alternative turn our eye to other countries (like Panama) which have not raised property prices nearly as much OR imposed the sort of draconian residency requirements that CR has.


I do not think the new Immigration requirements can be considered draconian. The only changes were in the income requirements and they were raised to a level that still is not unreasonable. Requiring someone to have a pension of $1000.00 per month for life or an income of $2500.00 per month for the next 5 years reflects more closely the realities of the cost of living in Costa Rica. I do not believe any one considered the old requirement of 600 or 1000 per month really were adequate amounts for someone to live in CR without putting some strain on the resources of the country.

The new law does not apply to those who have either established residency or have had their application accepted, by Immigration, for processing. There are still pensionados who only have to prove an income of $300.00 per month which was the requirement when they were granted residency.
Author:  Pacifica55 [ Sun May 03, 2009 2:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
Can anyone verify: A friend and perp tourist told me that the three day requirement is for Customs, to keep you from going to Panama, for example, and importing a bunch of stuff over night. Immigration requires that you leave the country with no time limit that you must remain outside CR.

Any other info on this? I am coming up on the deadline and I don't want to travel to the US right now with a newborn at home and flu all over. Planning to drive to a border, cross and return.
Author:  Irish Drifter [ Sun May 03, 2009 3:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Pacifica55 wrote:
Immigration requires that you leave the country with no time limit that you must remain outside CR.


This has been debated many times on CR discussion groups such as Costa Rica Living.

There has never been, to my knowledge, any substantiation confirming or denying the validity of that position.

I do know the issue was never raised until CR changed their customs declaration to a common one used in Central American countries. That is when the 72 hour question appeared on the customs declaration. Some have taken that to mean it is a customs requirement not an immigration one. Are they correct? I have not seen an answer from anyone who has factual knowledge.

In light of what Vegas Bob posted I would not chance overstaying my visa.

Wish I could provide a definitive answer. Perhaps someone here might be able to to but I hope they would provide empirical evidence rather then anecdotal information.
Author:  Gringo Malo [ Sun May 03, 2009 4:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
I just read yesterday that another Ex-Pat has been shot in another home invasion robbery south of Playa Samara. That makes 2 in 2 weeks. Could we properly assume that this enhanced enforcement of the immigration laws pertaining to Gringos is an appropriate government response to the increase in crime. As usual....symbolism over substance from the worlds' biggest panhandler and his "play house" government.
Author:  Irish Drifter [ Sun May 03, 2009 4:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
Gringo Malo wrote:
As usual....symbolism over substance from the worlds' biggest panhandler and his "play house" government.


I would assume the NO POLITICS in CRT posts rule applies to comments about the CR government as well as to the U.S. government so I will refrain from posting a rebuttal.
Author:  El Ciego [ Sun May 03, 2009 5:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
I.D. -

Even saying "no comment" is in itself a comment. :lol: I think the no politics rule does not cover discussions of C.R. politics when such politics have a direct effect on those of us who travel to, or who live in Costa Rica. Just a guess, though.

I ran into a guy a couple years ago, tico by blood but U.S. citizen by birth who had overstayed his visa by four years! :roll: He decided not to leave C.R. by air, instead going overland to Managua and flying out from there, in order to avoid C.R. immigration/aduano scrutiny. I wonder if it worked... haven't heard rom him since. :?

The laws might not be "draconian," but they might make it very difficult for some to gain legal residency. As I have no immediate plans to move permanently to C.R., these rule changes don't effect me, but they might affect friends of mine who do want to live in C.R. :(
Author:  Irish Drifter [ Sun May 03, 2009 6:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
El Ciego wrote:
I.D. -

Even saying "no comment" is in itself a comment. :lol: I think the no politics rule does not cover discussions of C.R. politics when such politics have a direct effect on those of us who travel to, or who live in Costa Rica. Just a guess, though.



And some U.S. political policies, of which discussions are banned, do not have a direct effect on those who travel to or live in CR?

Even if we agree with your position, which I do not, Gringo Malo's comment about the CR government added nothing to the discussion about being careful not to overstay your 90 visa so it can only be viewed as a political editorial comment IMO.
Author:  Pidd [ Sun May 03, 2009 6:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
As a side note...

When I came back in March of this year, the Migracion agent, after flipping through numerous pages of my passport to find a empty page to stamp, asked me... " why don't you just get your residency...? "

I responded with a faint smile on my face.... " When Costa Rica gets it'a act together and decides on what the FINAL requirements will be.. I Will "

The Agent shook his head, smiled, stamped my passport and said.."Si".

Seriously.... overstaying your 90 days or letting your US passport get within 6 months of expiration may and probably will cau$e you problem$ you would rather not have.... don't fight the system... use it.....

Peace

PIDD
Author:  Irish Drifter [ Sun May 03, 2009 6:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
El Ciego wrote:



The laws might not be "draconian," but they might make it very difficult for some to gain legal residency. As I have no immediate plans to move permanently to C.R., these rule changes don't effect me, but they might affect friends of mine who do want to live in C.R. :(


While it may be regrettable that your friend might be unable to qualify for residency in Costa Rica all countries have the right to set the conditions that they feel are appropriate to protect their interests.

CR has very liberal rules. Reasonable income requirements and a clean police record and that is about it. The new $1000 a month pensionado requirement is in line with most other developing countries.
Author:  Xman00 [ Sun May 03, 2009 7:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
Just a anther random thought, Would a crack down on the 90 day limit have any thing to do with CR new friend “ China”? The commies have always been very good at asking for favors after the lend their help ( just like Vito Andolini Corleone ) I can still remember all those brand new squads in SJ a few months ago.
Making CR appear to be less friendly to Gringos can start rumors, that get repeated bigger and bigger ( ie- like down to 5 day limit on trips) that get repeated as fact, and that can cause a drop in all tourist travel and lead to a drop of investment planning. Making CR move away from the US/west and to thier new helpfull friend China. Granted it can take time, but again time is what the commies have always used for their advantage vs the west.

So could this a case of EAST/WEST politics and we are the ping pong ball ?

Ok I got my bull eyes shirt on start shooting.
Author:  JazzboCR [ Sun May 03, 2009 8:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm not busting Brother Vegas Bob's stones but a subtext of his post is: always closely watch the professionals you hire here--lawyer, architect, building contractor, whoever, and keep a close eye yourself on paperwork filing "due dates", whether or not the work was actually done, etc., etc. This unfortunately seems like not the place to trust without verifying. His whole story is a cautionary tale.
Author:  Prolijo [ Sun May 03, 2009 8:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Irish Drifter wrote:
I do not think the new Immigration requirements can be considered draconian. The only changes were in the income requirements and they were raised to a level that still is not unreasonable. Requiring someone to have a pension of $1000.00 per month for life or an income of $2500.00 per month for the next 5 years reflects more closely the realities of the cost of living in Costa Rica. I do not believe any one considered the old requirement of 600 or 1000 per month really were adequate amounts for someone to live in CR without putting some strain on the resources of the country.

The new law does not apply to those who have either established residency or have had their application accepted, by Immigration, for processing. There are still pensionados who only have to prove an income of $300.00 per month which was the requirement when they were granted residency.
ID,
Perhaps "draconian" was overstating the case. It WOULD have been draconian IF they had passed the sorts of increased requirements that they were originally trying to push through. However, I'll grant you that the old requirements were probably too low and the actual rates that were just passed are not TOTALLY out of line (at least not the $1000 Pensionado amount). OTOH, the "grandfathering" in of low rates doesn't help guys like Bob who got screwed over by Tico incompetency. Besides that, there are many many Tico's who somehow manage to live on just $600/mo (not that I'd care to live that lifestyle). And there are probably even some gringos who manage to live on just $1000/mo or perhaps a little more (again, still very tight but as you said not unreasonable). However, I don't think you can convince me that the $2500/mo amount is necessary for a gringo to be able to afford to live in a country where the typical local earns 1/4th that amount.

Plus that $1000/mo FOR LIFE may be easy enough to achieve for older TRUE Pensionados who qualify for SS benefits that are based on a 10-15 year further life expectancy, but that leaves out a lot of younger would-be gringo ex-pats who don't yet qualify for SS. Some may still have enough savings or investment income from other sources to provide them with more than $1000/mo, just not for the much longer expected remaining lifespan. For those types of would-be expats, they should be able to turn to the temporary Rentista residency program that covers them only so long as they have sufficient provable monthly income (for a period of 5 years). But CR has bumped up the requirements for that program to 2.5 times the amount required of pensioners. If a pensioner can support himself for $1000/mo for the entire rest of his life, shouldn't a rentista be able to support himself for the same amount for just the next 5 years (or even less because he won't need to earn more 5-15 years into the future due to inflation unless he reapplies to extend his residency)?

Just for comparison's sake. Panama ALSO requires a proven lifetime pension of $1000/mo for its "Jubilado" pensioner's permanent residency. So that part of CR's program is pretty comparable. But Panama also has a "Private Income Retiree Visa" which grants temporary residency that has to be renewed every 5 years. But that program which is roughly Panama's equivalent to CR's Rentista program only requires a guaranteed income of $750/mo, which is considerably less than CR's $2500/mo.
Author:  Malf1204 [ Sun May 03, 2009 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  CR is lax compared to other countries
the perpetual tourist in CR should feel lucky many countries are changing the laws to prevent such actions. Ukraine for example allows tourists to stay no longer than 90 days in any 180 day period.
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