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Do nice guys really finish last?
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Author:  Zippy [ Fri Apr 14, 2006 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Do nice guys really finish last?
Maybe some of this info can give us some more insight? :? This is one thing I like about P4P you don't have to get to caught up in much except about making more money for play time.

http://msn.match.com/msn/article.aspx?a ... 7&menuid=6

Q: Bad boys. What’s the allure?
Dan Indante: Women are lying when they say they want a nice guy. Their mothers might want them to meet Mr. Right, but they all want the bad boys. The nice guys are too accessible, and women really want what they can't have. When a guy treats a woman poorly, it makes her think she can’t have him. It’s the thrill of the hunt, the forbidden fruit.

Sherry Argov: I pin it on low self-worth. The allure is that she believes she deserves a guy who treats her poorly. Two-thirds of women are insecure and will gravitate towards bad boys. Women with high self-worth wouldn't put up with bad behavior for 30 seconds.

Marcelle: A bad boy has a bit of danger about him—and if you fall for him, you'll have a long drop. My first bad boy, Erik, had a quick sense of humor, a tragic family history, and gorgeous green eyes. His best friend Steven had the hugest crush on me and was such a good guy. I went for Erik.

Lisa: As a high-strung type, I was always attracted to bad boys because they were relaxed and didn’t care about anything. I thought maybe it would rub off on me. I dated a guy who dabbled in illicit behavior, and I became mysterious and bad by association.

Q: Are there certain times women are more drawn to bad boys—say, when they’re young and not interested in a serious relationship?
Sherry Argov: Women are more attracted to bad boys when they're in their twenties. Bad boys put women they're seeing into a holding pattern where they keep the relationship from progressing. For younger women, this is a way to avoid ever having to get that close.

Marcelle: My tastes definitely changed over time. Bad boys slept on futons, good guys slept in real beds. After a while, I started wanting to sleep in a real bed.

Q: How does a guy give himself away as good or bad on a first date?
Lisa: I can tell if he’ll be a good guy or a bad boy before we even go out. If he’s too shy when we make plans, he’s going to be a lame good-guy date. But if he takes charge and tells me what we'll be doing, I know I may have found a bad boy.

Judy: The number one sign of a bad boy is someone who says, "We're just having fun" or "I like hanging out with you"—the same way you'd talk about a friend.

Sherry Argov: The bad boy is smooth, slick—rehearsed. Chances are, he has his con down pat. He's also impatient with regards to sex. At the end of the night, a bad boy will come on too strong and say things like, "You're a prude," "You're too uptight," "You're not trusting me."

Q: Can a bad boy turn good? Or a good guy turn bad?
Lisa: I could never turn a bad boy good, even though I tried (and had fun trying). I didn't want to make him all good—just a little bit so I could have the best of both worlds. But I have definitely turned good guys bad. They're so eager to please; they'll do anything you want. Good guys are normally afraid to try fun stuff in the bedroom, but that's usually the first place I could get them to change.

Marcelle: Once you tame a bad boy, there's nothing bad about him—he becomes human. The really, really bad boys could never be scared straight, though.

Judy: I succeeded in turning a bad boy good once. We dated for six weeks, during which time he was flaky and treated me badly, until he ultimately broke up with me. But we never fell completely out of touch. He says he wants to get back together, calls regularly and checks in, and his tone is completely different. But he had his chance, and he blew it.

Q: Can a good guy get a little bit of the bad-boy mystique? Should he?
Sherry Argov: A little bit of bad boy is OK—like salt in your diet. Don't be too obvious about how much you like a woman; leave her wondering a little bit. Do most of the pursuing, but not all. Keep her guessing about your whereabouts to a certain degree. Be a little bit mysterious.

Dan Indante: He should save the chivalry for his mom or sister. When he's out on a date, the woman should wonder a bit about how he feels about her—like, if she weren't there, someone else would be.

Q: In the end, who really wins: The nice guy or the bad boy?
Sherry Argov: The good guy—who is also smart enough to sustain intrigue by keeping the woman guessing a little bit.

Lisa: I'm with someone now who's a good guy with a hint of bad boy. He's not afraid to challenge me, but he’s totally trustworthy, supportive, and treats me right—none of which I'd get with a bad boy.

Judy: The guy I'm dating right now is a 100-percent good guy—and I could not be happier. I don't have to ever think about nice things he could be doing for me, because he's already done them.
Author:  Goal [ Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
Gawd Damn Man that all sounds like a LOT of WORK!!

This article sounds like the last "Cosmo" magazine cover I saw in PacoLoco's apartment.

Most of us here are professional men and business owners who value our time.

The gringas that play their silly games end up with bad boys cause the worthwhile men don't put up with shit from Men OR Women.

I spoke with an old girlfriend this week, she got married and was so happy she found a man who understood her and put up with her (her words).

It exhausted me just thinking of all the word translation games the poor bastard must trudge through daily to understand what she wants.

Women want a man who will go out into the world and kill something and bring it back to the cave for the family to eat, that is just biology.

A man must be competent in something that is what women find sexy. Put your energies into your career and business and the women will find you.

You'll never win by chasing women.
Author:  Dapanz1 [ Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Very good post Goal. My sentiments exactly. All the good boy/ bad boy shit might have some merit to it as far as early relation game playing but:

Quote:
Women want a man who will go out into the world and kill something and bring it back to the cave for the family to eat, that is just biology.

A man must be competent in something that is what women find sexy. Put your energies into your career and business and the women will find you.

You'll never win by chasing women.


this could not be a truer statement. The bad boy cocky/mysterious/funny etc... is likely a compensation for insecurity.

dapanz1
Author:  TimBones [ Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, interesting from a perspective of "Okay so this is what American society has warped into since Gloria Steinmen convinced women that they need men like a fish needs a bicycle"

The bottomline is that American women now need to invent ways to make themselves miserable since they have so little to be concerned about all the time; i.e. let me chase a guy who will treat me like shit, because I really am shit, but have been fooling everyone for so long!

It kind of reminds me of the opposite side of the coin of guys that go down to CR and start vying for the affections of the Del Ray Debs like they were asking for a date to the prom. Everything is what it is; there are few mysteries in life; people are just dumb, they create their own problems.

Of course, YMMV. :wink:
Author:  PacoLoco [ Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:17 am ]
Post subject: 
TimBones wrote:
Everything is what it is; there are few mysteries in life; people are just dumb, they create their own problems.
-TimBones 2006
:lol:
classic quote, you have seen the light TB :) I'm saving that one for future use...
Author:  DannyZee [ Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:52 am ]
Post subject: 
Do nice guys finish last ?

Quote:
Marcelle: A bad boy has a bit of danger about him—and if you fall for him, you'll have a long drop. My first bad boy, Erik, had a quick sense of humor, a tragic family history, and gorgeous green eyes. His best friend Steven had the hugest crush on me and was such a good guy.

I went for Erik.


That says it all, when it comes to dating for younger crowd. I remember during college, I was chasing a very outgoing classmate. And one night she told me , " bad boys are more fun, more interesting, and always have my attention ..." those words stayed with me ever since and , generally speaking, I think what she said was quite accurate, and still applies.

Needless to say, being the shy fcuk that I was, I didn't get any pu*sy from her.

What bothers me is, the ones that bitch the most about not able to find nicer guys as BF are always the ones that keep falling for the same type of jerks and SOB's, which goes back to what Timbones said at the end of his post. So true.
Author:  D2864 [ Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:16 am ]
Post subject: 
Dr. Phil says women fall in-love with their ears and men fall in-love with their eyes.

I caught some TV tonight - 20/20 - they said ugly guys with money do get as many responses from personals websites as good looking guys who make just a little money. I've been thinking about experimenting a little bit. I might put an ad on one of these sites, lie my ass off about income and about everything else too, take her to a semi-nice restuarant (don't want to pay too much), see if I can get laid first or second date. Maybe get a few TLNs and then dump her, because I'm a liar.... just an experiment... I've never tried to con anyone before, but for the sake of experimenting I just might. Do I have anything much to lose?
Author:  Solamente [ Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:44 am ]
Post subject: 
I have done some extensive writing / thinking on this issue.
you have to check this link:
http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/ ... s/ng.shtml

The thing with "nice guys" is that they really aren't They kiss ass, buy flowers, dote on her every word... but it's creepy, because they know it isn't real. Those girls know all he wants is a beer and a BJ just like every other guy. Like most other guys, he also wants her to shut up. So "nice guy" is actually creepy conniving guy.
They also don't like the "super-hot" guys too because they tend to have mediocre IQs and bland or 'self' personalities.
I have found a nice mix when dating girls here in the states...
I act like I could give a sh*t if they like me or not (which is true these days) I express some personality mixed with confidence and arrogance (they eat that sh*t up) and I make sure thay know I am EXTREMELY good at what I do, not only in business, but in cooking, or softball or whatever, not like I am Mr. Universe, but simply that I play hard and fear nothing.
Oh, and I was a troublemaker (big time) when I was young, they love that too, especially since they can't believe it, I look so clean-cut. (mystery factor) "yeah but I dont like to talk about it too much"
Magic!
I also make sure (as non-chalantly as I can) that I date pretty girls all the time, and actually have to try to fight them off, plus why are pretty girls so stupid / crazy? This challenges them.
You can carry your self with class, and treat a girl well, and still trigger lots of bad boy attraction with some attitude and personality and game.

I hate to have to play the game, and prefer to be a bit more genuine, but have found that this actually IS genuine, it IS me. That is the best way to deliver it convincingly. Pretend you are confident, and you may find that soon, you actually are.
And if you are gonna get laid in this world, competing with other guys, you better have SOME kind of game.

This obviously applies to America, the rules change in CR and other places of course. But carrying yourself with class and confidence works anywhere.

Check that link, LOTS of interesting stuff there.
Author:  Raw [ Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:34 am ]
Post subject: 
Every now and then I get a really bad attitude towards women. Its usually after a break-up. I would go to bars looking for the rebound girl to pick me up and restore my self confidence. I found that on any particular night when things werent going my way, I start to take on a nasty, sarcastic, smartass arogant aire, not by choice, maybe due to frustration. Any way, ive taken several Buckhead and Virginia highland hotties home when I was a little mean to them. Ive thought of this and tried to duplicate this attitude and it didnt work. It seemed to have only worked when I was really pissed at the female race. I dont understand why they respond to this but they definately do. Im pretty much a laid back quite and friendly guy and that worked well for me in CR.
Author:  Tman [ Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
Its all about chemistry between various personalities and attractions here. (Back me up Psychman 8) ). Direct BAD BOYS get certain types of chicks...good boys another. Personally I have found my mode as "apparent" good boy who has a hidden BAD side that they kind of like...works for the kind of women I like. I'm not into women who want to be conquered and abused...had one of those once. But I do like nice confident women who want a little challenge in controlling the guy. I'm not easily controlled and am a patient hunter. Its not about quantity but quality for me. So...I can be as good or bad as the situation warrents...and as a hunter...sometimes you have to use "camoflage"...PRETEND to be what you think they are looking for. Fantasy is a 2 way street.
Author:  Hank Daman [ Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
Tman wrote:
Its all about chemistry between various personalities and attractions here. (Back me up Psychman 8) ). Direct BAD BOYS get certain types of chicks...good boys another. Personally I have found my mode as "apparent" good boy who has a hidden BAD side that they kind of like...works for the kind of women I like. I'm not into women who want to be conquered and abused...had one of those once. But I do like nice confident women who want a little challenge in controlling the guy. I'm not easily controlled and am a patient hunter. Its not about quantity but quality for me. So...I can be as good or bad as the situation warrents...and as a hunter...sometimes you have to use "camoflage"...PRETEND to be what you think they are looking for. Fantasy is a 2 way street.


Well, I WAS tryin to stay out of this one, but to back up a homme....I think a peice of what you are suggesting T MAN is that making such huge generalizations about what woman like is difficult; not all Latinas are one way or Gringas another. Such, there are tendencies; yet read this board, these is huge diversity of opinion, view point, sensibiity and deserive. For certain types of encounters, as TMAN suggested, we can get many of our needs met when we play into women's fantasies. Think about what makes a good GFE guy; someone who is able to enduce the GFE experince in a women- we treat them as if they are our long lost loves, and if they are paid and of the same inclinatin; this is what we get back.

What DOES disturb me in a tread like this, is the culture of blame and victimization that many men take these days; we blame women for our unhappiness as much as they blame us for theirs. When a person stops working on themslves, when they nolonger (or ever did) see the journey of life as a process of personal growth and development, and blame others for their failiures, they never get what they want.....

Become the person you want, and and the end of the day, life is good. Meaning and pleasure, its always about a balence between the two.....

Also, may I suggest that Dr. Phil is not the best source of informational on the human condition?
Author:  Tman [ Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
LOL...I knew you'd be there for me Psychman :lol:

You said it in a more professional way. (college worked well for you :wink: ). I think you are hitting the nail on the head when you say we cant blame others for our unhappiness. I have always said in life you cant control OTHERS, but you CAN control yourself if you use the powerful mind most of us were born with yet hardly use. Once we acheive control of ourselves...how we behave, look, interact with others, our language, or emotions...we can then start controlling our circumstances and will probably be pickier about who we even assoaciate with. I'm not talking about becoming elitest or totally selfish...but about valuing our short lives and each moment and how we spend it. The older I get the more I despise wasting time around negetive, moaning and groaning types that cant see the bright side of anything. In choosing who we spend time with and relate to we totally affect who and how we are.

That then corelates to the women we gravitate to. My experience with "bad boy" types is that they many times are covering up huge insecurities with their act tough and "slap the bitch" mentality. It takes more of a man to not react to others rudeness, to simply walk away from a conflict, and not feel you have to win every argument. When you have nothing to prove, it's interesting how good people start gravitating to your life.

This may be getting a little deep from the original post...but I think the "nice guy finishing last" syndrome depends on your definition of a "nice guy". My definition allows that a "nice guy" while being calm and confident...still doesnt let people walk all over him or waste his time in losing propositions. Nice guys arent necessarily DUMB guys. I think the chicas who like bad boys are all part of the same syndrome...they have a lot of hidden insecurities/inferiorities that our society lays on them pretty heavy. Whether gringa or latina...these women would do well to examine what they really want...and hold out for the best. Unfortunately...most people cant stand to be alone more than a few hours at a time.

And I didnt get all this from Dr Phil... :?
Author:  Hank Daman [ Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
Tman wrote:

And I didnt get all this from Dr Phil... :?


I know it brother, was refering to a previous reference from another poster. You learned your hard earned knowlege at the U of Life, from a good hearty curriculum of life-lessons AND reflection and insight. Experince alone means dookie if you cannot reflect upon and in draw good conclusions.

Gee T man, its been almost two years since we first had that great steak dinner; mabye in early June. Fogo anyone?
Author:  Tman [ Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
Psych...You'll have a better chance of catching me in Panama City where I now live...and where they have overall better steaks :wink: . Never know though...I still play in CR sometimes...
Author:  LittleKing [ Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
I worked with a fellow who had great success with match.com. This guy is not particularly handsome, has bad teeth and is quite overweight - but after arriving here from out of state at my workplace he had no problem via match developing a mini-harem of 3 or 4 decent looking girls locally over a few months here in frigid Boston. Meanwhile I could't even get a date with that service! The key was the fellow is a cool, charismatic dude - not bad in any malicious way, a great guy in fact, but he does have a certain bad-boy attitude that comes naturally to him. His deal was following the 3 rules from the movie "Tao of Steve" Here is a link I just found:

http://edgeofdesire.blogspot.com/2005/0 ... steve.html

For sure even in the worst dating areas in the world like here in Boston, where so many "regular" guys like me in their 30's and 40's complain they can't get laid, or are otherwise are stuck in dead, sexless marriages, the hotty girls you still see around once and awhile especially around college campuses, are almost all having sex on a regular basis with someone (or a few different people). It's just that only a very small percentage of men have the game or the really big dollars to get or maintain access to them (them not including $300/hr ******* of course).

All I know is in places like CR and Peru my desireabilty goes up another 1 or 2 levels, giving me a chance to have the same type of opportunuities as the north american "bad-boy", even sometimes with non-pro's rating 6 and 7 in attractiveness level (if I choose), without changing into a person I don't know how to be.

But even in latin america, my personal experience is if I want an 8 or higher, the only sure thing for me is a pro or "semi-pro"- I have been turned away for sex in Peru by a 2 or 3 "regular girls" I rated as 9's in attractiveness - I recall one model-type who was the "town queen" in Tacna that I especially wanted in the worst way. A total knockout. I think now if I approached her differently maybe I could have had her. Too late now though, I became her "friend", her always complaining to me how bad her boyfriends treated her. Been out of touch with her for some months now (probably a good thing, not the type of friendship I need).

But I can say at least unlike hotty gringas these true unamericanized latina beauties weren't btchs about anything and never made me feel inferior or uncomfortable. No regrets except not having more game.
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