www.CostaRicaTicas.com

Thanks Prolijo, but consider the following:

The poster earlier stated that the USA demanded several years ago that Costa Rica accept a million Nicaraguan refugees due to the civil war and devastation from a hurricane. I don’t find this claim to be credible and asked the poster to provide substantiation. I pointed out that the civil war ended in 1979, and seeing that the only natural disasters that caused humanitarian crises in Nicaragua in modern history are the 1973 Managua earthquake, Hurricane Joan in 1988, Hurricane Mitch in 1998, and Hurricane Felix just this year, none occurred during the civil war.

Perhaps the poster was actually referring to the Contra war which lasted until Violetta Chumorro was elected President in 1990. If this is accurate, then I have an even more difficult time believing that the USA would force a million Nicaraguan refugees upon Costa Rica during that period.

The Contras had no humanitarian purpose. They were trained to kill, sabotage the infrastructure, and terrorize the population into turning on the Sandinista leadership. Keeping the people in Nicaragua to experience the hardship and learn that they could not be protected by the Sandinistas was the only way that the USA could achieve its objectives.

Also, the USA was staging the southern wave of the contra invasion through Penas Blancas which is the only border crossing between Costa Rica and Nicaragua. Logistically, how would it even be possible to move 1,000,000 people through the middle of a war front? The other alternative of moving a million people by boat across Lago Nicaragua and Rio San Juan into Costa Rica is simply a ridiculous thought.

Finally, 80% of Nicaragua’s population lives in Managua, a city that the contras couldn’t even get close to. The bulk of the casualties during the contra war took place in the north in the departments of Metagalpa and Jinotega, where the majority of the refugees fled to Honduras.

I am not denying at all that many Nicaraguans fled to Costa Rica during the civil war and the subsequent contra war. I simply don’t believe that the number is anywhere close to a million people or that Costa Rica was forced by the USA to take them in.

here is an interesting link to an article discussing immigration into CR from Nicaragua


http://www.envio.org.ni/articulo/3253


this article puts the current population of Nicas in CR at about 800,000 to 1 million.

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(export version only, some restrictions may apply, some assembly required, not valid where the sun don't shine...

if you live in the states of Poverty, Darkness or anywhere outside of The Blessings of Civilization Trust, Inc...other rules may apply)

I do believe with Cafta passing, Nicaragua will continue to be more isolated and regressing into the "dark ages". Look for more continued illegal immigration to CR from Nicaragua. For those entertaining the "cheaper" action in Nicaragua....you might want to review some links like this one...

http://baumanblog.sovereignsociety.com/ ... from-.html

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All that a man achieves and all that he fails to achieve is the direct result of his own thoughts...

How so? Nicaragua is already signed on with CAFTA and has been part of the Central America Free Trade Zone since its inception. I read your link, but behind the thinly veiled hatred for Ortega, his past, and his association with world leaders of questionable character, there really wasn't anything of substance. Ortega is a douchebag, but Nicaragua still appears to be committed to free trade, at least for the time being. However I guess I will agree that if investors are that put off by Ortega and his rhetoric, that all the free trade pacts in the world won't bring capital to Nicaragua.

I agree. Ortega has gotten somewhat smarter in his approach. There is a rapidly growing tourism industry in Nicuragua as well.

This from Travel and Leisure Magazine:

Where to Go Next: Nicaragua
...IS THE NEW COSTA RICA

By Heidi Sherman Mitchell

Costa Rica may risk being overrun by tourists, but Nicaragua has the largest area of primary-growth rain forest north of the Amazon, hundreds of beaches, six active volcanoes, and plenty of sleepy surf towns. Since 2002, the government has created 76 national parks to protect the country's wildlife. There's even Morgan's Rock Hacienda & Ecolodge, inspired by the pioneering Costa Rican ecolodge Lapa Rios. Canopy tours are popping up all over, Holland America cruise ships are docking at the Pacific port of San Juan del Sur, and the Four Seasons Resort at Peninsula Papagayo, in Costa Rica, is offering guests day trips to Nicaragua. After decades of political turbulence, the largest country in Central America is finally on the verge.

That about sums it up. I have yet to have anyone I know come back from there saying they would return. From recent PR and press...I dont see Ortega being any smarter...or a leopard with changed spots. For the sake of the Nicas, I hope you guys are right. But I'm not betting or placing odds on it.

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All that a man achieves and all that he fails to achieve is the direct result of his own thoughts...

There are a lot of eco tourist types that love the place and now prefer it over Costa Rica. It is a great place for the "social progressive set". It is not for everyone (myself included), but there are many that speak very highly of it and there is no question that their tourism industry is on the rise.

I agree that Ortega is a jackass. But he is at least smart enough not to try to take the US on head on and he is no longer attempting to transform Nicaragua into Soviet style communism like Cuba.

It is true that he is more aligned with Chaves than with Bush.

I am more aligned with Chavez than Bush, too.

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"The only normal people are those you don't know very well." Joe Ancis

Bilko,

Lol,

That is like saying you are in between Mao and Hitler idealogically. Kind of a big gap. I am probably in the middle, hopefully miles from either.

BKTUNA
I am never going home

There was an article in last Fridays Nica Times that described Ortega's speech to the United Nations 62nd General Assembly. (I would down load it and post except for the fact they want a $4.00 payment for that)

The gist was that he accused the United States of being "biggest and most impressive dictatorship that has existed in the long history of humanity". He also stated that the Presidents of the United States change office, but the circumstances of U.S. tyranny and imperialism transcend through the years. "It is not only the same discourse, but the same circumstances of oppression, violence and terror that threaten humanity more today then 18 years ago," Ortega said. Sounds like he doesn't like the U.S. much.

The next day Ortega met with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and reportedly proposed that there two countries form a common "Front to fight for peace". Seems like a strange way to attract American investors and tourists.

There is more to the article about tourism and the effect that Ortega's government has had on it according to Lucy Valenti, president of the private National Tourism Chamber. She feels that they have negatively impacted tourism.

Realtors, who are already reporting a 20 - 50% decrease in property sales from last year, said Ortega's antics serve only to reinforce the fears of many U.S. investors and potential buyers.

I think one should be very careful about thinking Nicaragua is the next Costa Rica. The overriding thing in Costa Rica's favor is a stable political climate.

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Pura Vida
Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four
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alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat.
Alex Levine

Trying to say Nicaragua is like CR...or the next CR...is trying to put a square peg in a round hole. It just aint so...and only the people already invested there are trying to say it is. Any objective voice I have heard or read are all thumbs down on investing there right now. Id rather invest in Colombia than Nicaragua in todays market.

In ANY of these markets in Central/South America...it is important to see and shop for yourself. There are many opportunities...but lots of sharks circling as well. Everyone has their own tolerance level of risk...but for me, Nicaragua would be the same as investing in Venezuela. Too risky for even me ...

The former Nica President who Ortega alligned with to win the Presidency put all his ill gotten money down here in Panama...and is under international scrutiny for doing so. Even the robber barons wont invest in Nicaragua...

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All that a man achieves and all that he fails to achieve is the direct result of his own thoughts...

KC, just because travel mags say something doesn't make it so. They've been saying various places will be the next CR for years. If some tourists (a relatively insignificant few) have made it over there it is only because of spillover from CR. Travel mags are basically promotional rags where it is hard to tell where the advertisements end and the articles begin. Most "news" articles in those mags are "thinly veiled" ads designed to promote the interests of their advertisers or at least the businesses that pay to be included. Have you noticed how many of them mention specific businesses, usually with exact contact info included. How objective is that? Just that very short blurb you provided includes the names of at least 3-4 specific coroporate interests.

Besides, attracting a few tourists is altogether different than attracting serious investment. I was there recently as both a tourist and a prospective expat.

It is not a bad tourist destination, though still very much weaker than CR in terms of infrastructure and specific sights of interest (with the possible exception of Granada). Tourism there is on the rise but it seems to mainly appeal to people who have been burnt out on CR or are fleeing its overdevelopment and inflated pricing, so how much growth potential is that. The real growth in CR tourism are by the types that are actually turned on by all the glitzy resorts and disneyesque attractions. Sure Nicaragua could try to follow CR down that path, but given the headstart that CR has how could Nicaragua ever beat them at that game? What real advantage do they have over CR except for their very lack of development? The one place in Nicaragua that has significantly promoted its tourist potential is Granada and it has experienced the same land price inflation that you see in CR, not to the same degree but enough to make it no great bargain for investment either.

But like I said, while aspects of Nicaragua as a tourist destination appeal to this unusual traveller, I don't think it measured up as a relocation destination. The only people I hear promoting are the ones who already made the move themselves and they sound to me like they're trying to justify their own investment as they are trying to convince me to do it. Just about everything they said about their expereinces to date didn't exactly encourage me to follow and it is mainly about the promise or hope of growth and development in the future (and ROI). But, given the actions of the government, there really is no promise that growth will come any time soon. Yes, land prices are still much cheaper than the inflated prices in CR. However, land titles in Nicaragua are even more mixed up than in CR after decades of various land redistribution reforms and a succession of diametrically opposed gov't regimes. Residency requirements are even more difficult than in CR and many of the things that make CR attractive to retirees such as top-notch healthcare, stable government, relatively decent roads and infrastructure and which thus at least partially justify the demand and higher cost, simply don't exist in Nicaragua. Land is cheaper still in Haiti, but I wouldn't want to live there.

Sandino, I didn't see any thinly veiled hatred of Ortega in that article, just a laying out of all the facts. If that makes him look bad, its not the fault of the author. Okay, I wouldn't be so concerned about his notorious past. People can change and at least during his campaign he was making it sound like he had. Unfortunately, his actions since he "won" the election have belied those original pledges and it appears he was just paying lipservice to try to mollify the nicas that were concerned about his past. BTW, he did not win by a majority vote. He won just enough support to avoid a runoff and that was only because of 3 things: a) instead of uniting under one banner the opposition split between several candidates, b) the ham-handed meddling in the election by the Bush Admin which only drove more voters to Ortega and c) the secret campaign contributions of Hugo Chavez. If the election had come down to a runoff, the opposition would have united and he definitely would have lost. Like our own president, who barely squeeked into office, instead of recognizing the deeply divided state of his country and governing from the middle, took his 38% vote as some sort of mandate (what our president would call "political capital") and ignored his campaign pledges and immediately cozied up to all the countries that are most opposed to the US. As it stands now in Nicaragua, like the US, there seems to be a lot of buyer's remorse and there is nothing at all thinly veiled about the hatred of Ortega that I encountered among many Nicas. It was almost embarassing to listen to them go off on Ortega, who they call "el monstero" (I said "si, pero tenemos el diablo y eso es peor")

You're forgetting the most significant reason: Herty Lewites died of a heart attack about 4 months before the election. He would have split the Sandinista vote, and all but guaranteed a victory for Eduardo Montealegre over Daniel Ortega. It really is a shame that Lewites passed away, he was one of the few really good guys that you'll see in Nicaraguan politics. Ex President Enrique Bolanos was another good one, but he could never overcome the corrupt alliance between Ortega and Arnoldo Aleman.

Prolijo, you certainly know more on the subject than I do.

I have worked in the travel industry for 15 years and have been researching Central American travel for 3 years.

I live in Costa Rica and am intimately involved in travel industry down here, but I really don't know shit on the topic.

The fact that the big CR tour companies like Swiss, TAM and CRT (not the same CRT) are all growing their businesses in Nicaragua is a completely meaningless factoid.

Thank you for setting me straight.