www.CostaRicaTicas.com

There is one area which I would advise against walking near, day or night. It is a strip of Domincan bars and brothels on the south side of Avenida 7 between the Best Western and Parque Morazan. This is well known as being one of the most dangerous places in SJ. I know of one gringo who was allegedly murdered in one of the brothels.

As far as the rest of SJ... I feel that is fairly safe, providing you have street smarts. Size does not matter that much. Four smaller ticos, with no weapons, and bad intentions, can easily overcome a man of just about any size. If they have nothing to lose, size just makes you a bigger physical target.

I am well travelled and have been in many bad spots in the US, Mexico, Europe. The only place I have ever been held-up at gunpoint was in a well to do suburb of Cleveland, Ohio.

I also agree that there are cities in the US, with pockets, that are WAY MORE DANGEROUS than any part of SJ. In Chicago, I went jogging one day on the west side. Had my MP3 cranking and lost track of where I was. I suddenly realized, I was in a gang area. Puerto Ricans were on one side of the street and Mexicans were on the other side. Both sides were laughing at me.... hahaha look at the stupid gringo. In contrast to SJ, these guys had automatic weapons stashed, and were probably ready to make me dance, just out of boredom.

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http://TipsCostaRica.com for pratical advice on living in Costa Rica.
In order to write about life, first you must live it! - E. Hemingway.

I think the US, much more than any other country, has become a "Nation of Fear". I don't know if it is because of anything inherent in our national psyche or whether it is something either created or at least fed by such institutions as the media and the government, but it is there.

News stories focus on crime and violence to the point of oversaturation. Sure there really is plenty of crime and violence out there, but if you were to base it on what you see on the news one would think that we were all at risk of getting mugged or murdered every day and yet the vast majority of us aren't. So many of us feeling this fear rush out and buy guns to protect ourselves. Why don't people in other industrialized nations feel the same need to arm themselves? A girl goes missing in Aruba or a K*D shoots a dozen people at a school and it gets covered non-stop for 24 hours or 24 days until the next sensational story comes along. The next thing you know, we're afraid to travel to the Carribean or afraid to send our K*ds to school. Nevermind that Aruba has a much much lower crime rate than the US or that millions of schoolchildren go to school everyday without ever having some ostracised K*D coming in to shoot them all up with an automatic weapon. Never mind that the far greatest risk that any of us probably face is from the accumulated damage of a lifetime of consuming the junk food and/or greenhouse gas emitting products that the sponsors of those TV programs brainwash us into buying.

And the government is just as bad. I'm sure I'll catch a lot of flack on this but am I the only one who thinks that the government is overplaying the risks we face from terrorism? Sure it was a horrible horrible thing that happened on 9/11 and we should do everything we reasonably can to prevent it from happening again. But far far more people die every year in this country from cancer and heart disease, car accidents and such than have ever died in all the terrorist attacks in the 6 years since 9/11 or the 6 years before (BTW, Bush likes to point out that there have been no islamic terrorist attacks on US soil in the 6 years since 9/11 but there weren't any attacks for the 6 years prior to 9/11 either, so what does that prove?). The terrorists get lucky once and kill 2974 people in the US, far more than they had ever hoped, and we send 3781 (so far) of our soldiers to die in a country that didn't even have a hand in the original attack. And after sacrificing all those soldiers lives, the action has if anything made us less sfe than we were before.

Aren't we playing into the terrorist hands by elevating the importance of catching a few bumbling Osama wannabes in Buffalo hatching a plot that probably wouldn't have succeeded anyway, or coincidentally raising some silly colored alert rating system in the days right before an election. I think we give the terrorists more credit than they're due and in doing so foster the very terror that they are trying to acheive. So why do we put so much emphasis on fighting terrorism, while doing relatively nothing to deal with the other equally or greater threats to our health and safety?

The only thing I can think of is that scaring people by trumping up a threat (whether it is non-existent WMD's and Al-Queda in pre-invasion Iraq or now the patently absurd idea that insurgents trying to liberate their country from an occupying force and/or trying to settle scores with rival clans will have any interest at all in following those retreating occupiers back to their country) stirs up the Republican's natural pro-security base and acts as a good justifier for increased spending for the US's huge military-industrial complex.

But, as you all know, I can go on and on. So what's my point? Go to the US State Department website and read the travel warning section and you'd think that every gringo visitor to CR or other countries is at serious risk to life and limb. However, anyone who has actually been to any of these places knows the threat is overblown. I just completed a monthlong bus tour throughout Central America. Before the trip, my mom and a few of my friends thought it sounded a little dangerous and that I might be at serious risk of being robbed on one of those buses. And yet in all the miles I covered I did not experience even one moment of fear from crime. My biggest fear was getting on the wrong bus and winding up someplace I didn't know how to get myself out of of (which actually happened to me once in the mountains above Tegucigalpa). But that is the image most people in the US have of these places.

Even seasoned travelers hearing these tales can buy into it. This is probably not the best example, but some of you may have heard of Nibu Raphael, admittedly not the most stable characters in the mongering community. However, he is a veteran of remote bus journeys and cheap cheap hotels all over South America, and yet he posted recently on ISG worrying about getting held up by MS13 gang members on the buses in Honduras and El Salvador. Sure it happens occasionally on some of the thousands of daily bus trips all over the region, but the odds are no greater there than they'd be in someplace like Colombia which Nibu evidently survived.

The same can happen with us. We read the media reports and we hear the tales of misfortune (usually 2nd hand) of some gringo we may or may not know being mugged. But we fail to put that into the context of just how many of us are out there going about day to day without any incident or focus on that possible threat while overlooking or at least not considering hard enough the far larger risks involved with our little hobby.
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Evidently I'm not the only person that feels this way. Check out this recent editorial from the NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/opinion/30friedman.html?ref=opinion

The recurring theme and take away from all these threads is an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
So just avoid situations that make you vulnerable. Take a taxi if in a bad area or if you have a bad gut feeling. Put another way, the odds of a fire in your home are way less than getting mugged and we all have several fire alarms and fire extinguishers, the odds of catching HIV or an STD are much less than getting mugged but everyone religiously straps on a condom, measures of prevention are also buying you something else not discussed...piece of mind, which is an intangible but has its worth. IN addition Suppose you see four TVs that start following and then start to run after you and you run to the nearest hotel and make it safe, well you still elevated your heart rate and got a jolt of adrenalin, and judging from the demographics in DR a good proportion of the mongers could risk a heart attack.

What are the1/2 hour rates at the brothels there? If it is less than 6k colones it might be worth the risk .

Avenida 7 between the BW and the Parque Morazon (which is really at the ends of Avenida 3 & 5) is a fairly long stretch of road (like 6-7 blocks). Aren't Club 40 and the Dungeon on the south side of Avenida 7? I'm not sure of their current rates but I believe they're on the order of what Counte Dante asks. I also can't say with any certainty how dangerous it is to go INTO any of those places but I can tell you I've walked that whole avenida numerous times during the day and always felt perfectly safe. Night time is another story and would definitely give me the heeby-jeebies. BTW, for those who don't know, the Dungeon is a daytime MP and Club 40 is a night-time bar. Incidently, Krysis and Lipstix are also on the south side of Avenida 7 but I'd hardly call either of those places low end. Perhaps Chi could be more specific about exactly where he's talking about. I believe the area he means may be closer to the BW like around Calle 4, which is also not too far from other low-end favorites like 747, ChaChaCha and Bar Bachata. In fact, come to think of it, Bachata is the name for Dominican country Merengue music so that place probably is one of the Dominican bars he was referring to.
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Some other thoughts. How can you say "I know of one gringo who was allegedly murdered"? Either you know for a fact someone who was murdered there and its not alleged or you don't really know anything for certain and are just repeating some monger urban legend which might or might not be true. Another thing, I haven't hit those nightime bars myself but I'm pretty sure RBC has and can fill you in exactly how safe they are.

I suspect that they're fairly safe INSIDE as long as you a) don't bring along any unneccessary cash and flash it around (just enough for a few drinks, a session and return cab fare should do it) b) you don't act like an obnoxious gringo c) you follow the normal safety precautions for any bar (namely not getting too drunk, leaving an open drink unattended, or your wallet too accessible) d) pay your tab in small bills and get the change or leave it as tip and d) spend some cash there or maybe even buy a drink of 2 for the guy next to you at the bar. If you do the latter, you may make an interesting friend who won't need to rob you and even if they tried there wouldn't be much left for anyone to take.

I think the bigger risk is not from the ticos or dominicanos inside the place, who are there just to have a good time like you and probably wouldn't pull anything inside their bar anyway (unless you let yourself get into a bar fight) but rather from getting robbed once you step outside. I wouldn't walk too far away from the bar entrance. If I didn't see any passing cabs to flag down, I'd go back inside and ask one of your new friends to help you out by finding one for you (again not leaving the bar entrance area with him yourself). It would be nice if you had to do that to tip him a buck for the favor and the added cost would probably be well worth it. (damn, now I'm beginning to sound like those "always-take-a-cab" guys)

I think the area I'm talking about is more West. It is about 3 blocks of domincan bars and brothels. All of those other joints you mention are farther up the road. You will notice that even ticos walk on the other side of the road. I had a run-in with two Domincanos at a tico joint and it was very unpleasant. They basically walked right up to us and demanded that we buy them drinks and shots. We said NO and it got ugly. We somehow finessed our way out of it. Actually, we just dropped our beers, and ran the Phuck out of there.

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http://TipsCostaRica.com for pratical advice on living in Costa Rica.
In order to write about life, first you must live it! - E. Hemingway.

Well Krysis is only 2.5 blocks from the BW, so if its 3 blocks of bars it would have to include that area.

BTW, I assume that run-in you had at a bar was at night at one of those places and not during the day. You said it was unsafe day or night but you don't find that much activity at most bars during the day either good or bad. I'd have handled your situation the same way. I don't mind being friendly and buying guys drinks if it is my idea, but I don't like guys insisting I buy them one and any bar that tolerates that type of behavior by its patrons immediately loses my business. No worries, its nothing a hasty exit and a trip to another bar can't fix.

Incidently, you can find assholes at any bar. It kind of goes with guys getting drunk. I've also encountered drunk asshole gringos at the BM. In fact, I remember one time when I was with VegasBob and he almost got into it with this big surfer dude who was rudely elbowing us out of the way so that he could get space at the bar (practically knocking Bob of fhis stool) and laughing about it like it was just some big joke. Fortunately, Bob wa livid but finally figured discretion was the better part of valor and we chose to just say Phuck it and move on. There have been other times when I've met very nice, if somewhat drunken, latinos at various places where we'd swap rounds. In fact on this last trip, I met this really amusing and shitfaced guy in Honduras who kept buying me beer (and spilling his all over his novia) and refusing to let me pay for any of them.

Speaking of the Archives, I bet if someone checked, there has been almost as much written on the dangerous streets of San Jose as has been written on the quality of the chicas here. And I am sure a lot less has been written on the potentual dangers of STDs. And every guy on this board (that doesn't live here) spends a lot more of his time with these potentually STD caring chicas than walking the streets. In saying this do not get me wrong; from my experience and knowledge of CR over the past 11 years, I feel very strongly the chicas here are much less likely to have a STD than working gringas in the states. And the overall street dangers here are less than even in places like Huntsville, Al., Corvallis, Or., Columbia, Mo. etc.

Chi Trekker is correct about the area west of the Best Western on Ave7 being one of the worst areas here. There are areas worse (example: 15 de septiembre in Hatillo) which by the way I spend a lot of time in this area.

Counte Dante's 3 As are very good
Avoidance
Awareness
Attitude
A 4th would be "Alcohol" and a 5th " arrongance

Prolijo's posts here are overall very accurate and right on. In fact Prolijo, we (the USA) need someone with your insight running the government. Run and I will vote for you--jejeje

As for all the other posts in this thread, i think all (but one) make good points. A lot depends on the person, the time of day or night, the As above, familiarity with the area, spanish ability.
There is a world of difference between a Newbie and a guy that has been here many times or lives here. I personally have walked in areas here that I would never recomend the average gringo walk. O AND THAT ONE POST- Zman--everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I do not appreciate being called a "fool"--foolish maybe but a fool I am not!!!
If we live in fear what good is living? And look at all the exciting and wonderfull things we would miss if we never took a chance.

I quess what I am trying to say is: Ifwe go thru life avoiding all the potentual risk, we sure will miss a lot of what life is all about. But, at the same time, we must use a little common sense.

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Old and retired but still bang, and bang, and bang!!!

Thanks, but there is already enough hot air coming out of Washington.

BTW, I thought Chi said between the BW on the west and Parque Morazon on the east, but if he means the area to the west of the BW, then I really have no idea how iffy that area is as at most I've only gone past the BW up there in a cab (usually as a cabbie "shortcut" to avoid morning traffic on the way to the airport)

I've walked alone from the Castillo to the SL a few times at night, but I wasn't exactly thrilled about it. It's so easy to take a cab that it's crazy not to. However, I will walk at night if I'm with a group of guys.

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One-eyed and peg-legged is how I like 'em, ARRRRR!

I beg to differ. In some cities, such as Philadelphia, it goes for $2-$3. I am sure that we get your point, though.

Now we're CRAZY fools! What you're talking about is less than a 60 second 2 block walk along streets that are completely devoid of any people (threatening or otherwise) in the relatively safe Otoya neighborhood. You can easily cover that distance before anyone even realizes you're out on the street. This is actually a perfect example of one of the relatively few cases where it definitely does make more sense to walk (unless maybe its raining out in which case I'd either spring for the cab or maybe just run it). IMHO, it's actually so easy to walk that stretch that it's even crazier to waste even just a buck for a cab.

You weren't thrilled about it only because of all the horror stories you've heard repeated by everyone else about OTHER parts of SJ, not because anything even remotely happened to you in that area.

How do you even know how much a male-on-male cocksucking goes for? On second thought, I don't want to know.

Ok, thats a bit conservative even for me. I've done that walk at all hours of the day and night and have no problem with it. Aside from its small distance, I'll give 4 reason why It doesn't bother me.

1) I know the route well enough to know any possible ambush points. I would see anyone sneeking up on me before they could take action.

2) I am always AT MOST 1 block away from some place safe (Castillo or SL) to run to if something does go down.

3) The lighting on those streets is pretty good at night.

4) There is a decent amount of cab and car traffic on those streets even at night..

These same 4 reasons, plus my suspicion that police protect this area more, are probably similar to why criminals won't go there. The hunting is better for them elsewhere.

YO Prolijo:

First of all you broke the recognized rule around here.....you became political. Not surprising for a screaming liberal as you appear to have become on this issue. Seems to be a lot of that going around these days.

This discussion was originally about walking around San Jose. But now that you have expanded the perimeters let me just say:

I'm surprised as to your apparent ignorance of radical Islam. These people want to eradicate any humans following a religion other than Islam. NTM, muslims that do not cater to their distored view of the Koran. Sad, because the Koran does have many desirable practices.

It is my belief that they are conspiring an eventual attack that will make 9/11 small by comparison. No, I do not walk around frightened by the possible dangers but I do seriously believe that these assholes have an agenda that through patience will strike when we least expect. Hopefully, heads in the sands liberals will not be at the helm when it happens.

Getting back on track with the topic in hand, I can only say that CR is not the once safe country I had traveled for many years. That can be said about almost all countries. I take precautions as required but 2 out of the 3 encounters that I had were amongst a number of others on the street and one was hours before dark. Shit happens.

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Damn if I'm going to repeat this shit again. I need a drink.
I've been drinking vodka every day for 45 years and I have certainly never found it to be habit forming.