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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:37 pm 
I can do CR without a wingman!
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Malecat -- two good posts and sums up the wisdom I woulda had if I hadn't gotten roped into all that horny 20-something years of chasing "The" Gringa-for-life (an attempt to ensure cheap supply). Woulda been better just to earn, and pay. Internet has made it easier to meet and repeat with smart, sexy ladies who deserve every bit of it, and keep up reputations for those qualities.

Now, CR and Nicaragua present the possibilities for that late-life hookup you talk about, which I never would have guessed at until less than a year back...


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:35 am 
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(SORRY, had to edit this a little, I was BLASTED last night when I originally posted this... I was originally going to delete it alltogether this morning, but figured what the hey, a drunk man's words are a sober mans's thoughts... or something like that, no shame in the game)

Thanks to all those thoughts and replies to my original post. This thread, in my opinion has grown a life of its own and gone the way of the 'panchos' with some. Just some thoughts from what I read and in retrospect of my most recent trip...

God bless these honey-bunnies, who give us much more than we deserve at our ages and/or looks... no one should complain or haggle over the prices they charge... we are getting laid by kittens who are way out of our league and are giving us more of themselves than most of us can ever bring ourselves to understand in an objective way. I love them ALL, even the Chewbaccas!!

I've seen a few friends very recently involve themselves in relationships with non-pros, both in the U.S. and in C.R., and seeing some of the issues they've already gone through in the very early stages of the relationship always bring me back to thinking of my original post on this thread. My thoughts are that most of us have such a phucked up way at looking at true and real relationships that we are are setting ourselves up for disappointment after disappointment due to the double standard that we set for ourselves... Do you want to have your girlfriend/partner/wife be true to you?... Stop being a dog behind her back and follow the golden rule of 'do unto others as you would want done unto you'. Women, whether working girls or semi-pros or non-pros or gringas, are human beings that deserve the same fundamental level of respect that us as men in general demand as well, and we would only be hypocrites to pretend we can do what the Phuck we want by excuse of "we are programmed to sow our oats, etc, etc," while women are held to some unfair comparison where they need to ALWAYS be monogomous or else they are labeled as whores or tramps or damaged goods.

As I told my wingman, if you find that special one that does it for you, then jump into the water head-first and don't look back... leave your doggish ways behind and make yourself worthy of the respect that she gives you... if not, then just don't commit, or be brutally honest so that you both are playing on a common ground and reading from the same sheet of music... bottom line. If you can't live up to a certain standard in life, then don't expect that of your partner either.

In terms of my commonly hearing guys insult or talk bad about the kittens, my issue is... If you are a man-whore, then why condemn or denegrade the very working girls you've had so much fun with??? I loved the Catcher in the Rye comparison posted earlier by Twarag... so so accurate.

I will say this, because it kind of bothered me that some people even tried to associate my post with Eva, but my original post on this thread NEVER even mentioned Eva... and I was never trying to justify any potential actions on my part with her with this thread... I was just speaking from the heart, and I hope everyone can understand this... My bottom line messege with my original post on this is to, one, be true to thine own self and to your partner if you choose to have one, and two, be careful of casting any stones at the working girl if you yourself live in a fragile glasshouse (which you most definitely do if you monger as a hobby), be it by claiming they are worthless, unworthy of feelings, unchangable, liars, 'theiving whores' (as someone so crudely and classlessly put on this very thread, thus putting to light the very behavior by us that so pisses me off and made me start this very thread...), etc, etc etc, as we are not all that different in the end...

Thanks for reading,

Ruffnutz

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Last edited by Ruffnutz on Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:49 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:10 am 
Sniff :cry: sniff :cry: just beautiful :wink:
Muhahaha


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:53 am 
I can do CR without a wingman!

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Location: "Land of the Ice Queens w lawyers"
Ruff,

I saw a girl write recently....

No man wants to marry a whore.... well.... no girl wants to either.

As life goes in seasons, even the most dedicated monger might find himself committed to a special someone...or not.
No point in taking shots at the guys who fall in love, especially with a latina....its so hard not to sometimes! And no point in taking shots at the girls, who, one way or another, are doing the best they can, and deserve decent treatment, regardless....

keep up the good work guys, and do unto others as you would have them do unto you... always try to walk a mile in the shoes of someone you don't understand...

Solamente

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:24 pm 
I can do CR without a wingman!
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Ruffnutz, here's a thought to your:

Quote:
most of us have such a phucked up way at looking at true and real relationships


I think that putting your heart into it turns a two-dimensional game into a three-dimensional world that might be the "real life" we've all been looking for. More risk, but more reward.

But you learn, as you get older -- like Prolijo says about the lies you tell yourself -- to second-guess your heart and keep an escape plan handy. We know how stupid we've been, and how many times repeated, at that.

But as far as "phucked up way of looking", most of us got sidetracked early 20s into some sexy gringa who devoured a decade or more of our lives, when we should have continued growing and learning. Learning more about our weak points, and how to give ourselves a good life, instead of handing it over to someone else we were somehow supposed to worship.

Getting the chance to pick up that thread of learning again in CR, with girls who look and phuck very much like the one I left off with at 25, is a bonus I never expected to get again.

So, this time, I really want to make sure I learn those last lessons, learn to sort the fake from the real (and the unsure chica, who bolts at the last minute, as any of us might do, too) -- because I don't think I'm likely to get another spin of the wheel, at least not when it'll do me much good.

This year is being a peak experience for me, and I'm grateful to all those here who act as part of that "wise voice" in the back of my mind... :wink:


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:17 pm 
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Just FYI, I did some serious editing to my previous post above... Sorry, I was drunk-typing last night... but it now all makes much more sense than before and has a much smoother flow...

My apologies!

Ruffnutz

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:46 pm 
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Ruff,
I admire your honesty and ability to still be optimistic so short after your disappointment. Many would be cynical and pessimistic.

A very respectful post highlighting why we all love the kittens. I would agree with you on many points!

Never know how deep the water is if you don't at least get your feet wet!

Hope to meet you someday!

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"Last time I said no......I misunderstood the question!"


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:42 pm 
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Ruffnutz,

As always, you bring up very interesting views, and your willing, frank self-appraisal and the moral questions it raises are worth digesting and worthy of a thoughtful reply, which many of our CRT brothers have already done. Permit me to add mine.


Ruffnutz wrote:
Something to think about—We as CRT’ers for the most part do not trust working women. We talk about how they are liars and how they can never have the bar taken out of them, that you can never have a relationship with them and they will always resort back to their old ways and disappoint you, yada yada yada, so on and so forth.

This may be true, but how many of us ever stopped and wondered… how do WE stand in terms of trustworthiness in their eyes… you know what, forget about what they think for a second... Have we as a group done some real soul searching and really assessed if WE are worth trusting??

Here’s the reality of it all. In the gulch, we are all guilty of playing the game. The girls are prostitutes… they get paid to pretend they like you, they have sex with you for money and make you feel special for a given amount of time in exchange for your hard-earned cash. That in itself involves them having to lie and deceive for a living. Let’s be honest, we are not as sexy of bitches as they make us out to be, we are not that irresistible and desirous. They lie, and sometimes we make them out to be such bad people for the very thing that makes the difference between a ho-hum session and a phenomenal GFE experience. But now let’s look the other way for a second…


First of all, while I agree that this is a paid entertainment for the monger and a matter of survival for the lady, I cannot believe that the transaction is limited to colones, meat and heat.

You forget I observed you in the Blue Marlin. When approached by a lovely woman, you were delighted to discover that she had been your first BM girl.

You, a fit, attractive 30 year-old guy with a good job and flawless Spanish, keen mind, psychology background and indefatiguable desire for sex are certainly memorable, as is a sexy blind bitch such as I, surely a Gulch novelty, if nothing else. They touch us, we touch them. Lies or no, sometimes real stuff happens between liars.

We are mongers. As opposed to the women who do this out of necessity or circumstances, to pay for their Ch*ldren and families, we go do what we do strictly for selfish reasons. We CHOOSE to do this, and we are completely in self-serving mode, purely in a hedonistic, egotistical and selfish frame of mind. Who’s worse here, if we dare try to say any of us are wrong (us vs. them)? And now to the lying part… let’s not fool ourselves… some of us have wives and girlfriends back home. Others of us keep this hobby completely hidden from the world. There is a level of deception in many, if not all of us… and it doesn’t compare to some working girl who just does what she does to survive and continues the

Are you suggesting that this isn't a "need" for many of us? I don't know about you, but my recent trip filled a very real need. I was dying up here, a sexless marriage, a beloved lover some 1400 miles away and only rare chances to travel, no worthy local targets, and besides, small town equals big gossip.
GFE fantasy and makes an attempt at a long-distance request for what she needs most—Money.

I have talked to several of CRT’ers on this, and when the question comes up on whether or not one can have a healthy relationship with a worker, I always say why not? Why should we judge them for what they do? Who the Phuck are we to say they are trash and are used goods and can’t be trusted when we are the true whores here? In 7 trips to Costa Rica, I have had my way with over 70 different women, and I’ve had probably half as many women in the ‘normal world’… is that something I can ever admit to a normal girl whom I want to have a healthy relationship with, that I’ve been with 100+ women in my life?

Were you by any chance raised Catholic, as I was? I'm seeing some serious guilt here. :) Ruff, you're a healthy 30 year-old with a somewhat accelerated libido. So what if you've done over 100 women (lucky bastard)! Did you have fun? How much real, non-exaggerated damage did you do to the women with whom you lay?

Let’s talk about fidelity for a second… I remember an old statistic I read in college (I’m a Psych major) regarding fidelity, and it stated that over 60% of married men have been unfaithful, and in my mind I thought, “and the other 40% just never got caught.” In my 30 years of experience in this world, I have only met one man, ONE, who was truly faithful to his wife.., he wound up divorcing after 5 years because he just couldn’t handle being with the same person anymore (he did the honorable, though sort of selfish thing and left her).

Ruff, many married couples maintain sexless marriages for a variety of reasons, economic, raising the offspring, companionship etc. Whether or not your friend did the "honorable" thing by bailing on his marriage is a topic for another thread.

For those of us who "cheat" with prostitutes, consider the fact that many of us, self included can maintain a sexless but otherwise satisfying marriage by the very fact that girls are available in C.R. for non-emotional sex play.


And I dare say this… just like we say once a working girl always a working girl, it works the same for many, if not all of us… Once a monger always a monger… or maybe more appropriate, once a monger, forever unfaithful. One would be hard pressed to live with and be true to that one and only piece of pu*sy for the rest of your life after having tasted the delicious fruit of a limitless variety of young, energetic, sensual women that, for the most part, would be way out of our league in the real world. Shit, I’m only 30 years old, and I find it so hard to feel attracted to women in my age group these days, AND THEY LOOK GOOD… Imagine when I’m 40, or 50… how about 60? How good will the women of my age group look to me when I know what awaits just a plane-ride away. In terms of ever having a healthy relationship here at home, mongering and Costa Rica (IMHO) is a very bad drug, and once spoiled to it, it makes it hard, if not impossible to start a healthy relationship with someone of my quote/unquote “appropriate age group.” And by healthy I also include the concept of being true and faithful to your gf/spouse.


Aside from your attribution of sexual/emotional fidelity to a "healthy" relationship, I agree with you. The psychological professionals, as you know would label you "hypersexual," and suggest that you have issues with intimacy, control, power and possibly a "salvation" complex, Ruff on his white steed, brandishing his mighty sword, saving the damsels.

Whether or not you feel this commerce is healthy for you is a very personal decision. As you know from your neuropsych cleasses, the human female has many more zones in her cerebrum that have to do with emotion. Love although probably love without true trust, can and will happen LTR between extranjeros and Latinas, and perhaps once the hormones and unfulfilled desires have gone away, they might be able to live together happily ever after.


I’ll be a little forthcoming here and disclose something very personal. Up until only 4 months ago, I was married. While married I delved a little in mongering while stationed in Europe, and the moment I did, I loved it! Next thing you know, I had flings and affairs, and always enjoyed the variety of being with more than just one woman. By the turn of last year, I discovered CR, which was just a 3 hour flight from me, and, well, that’s when I really got to liking the hobby. It got to me though, personally… I felt guilty of what I was doing, and it finally started showing in the bedroom. For some reason, I just couldn’t perform with the wife sexually, even though with ANY OTHER PERSON, I’d perform like the world-heavyweight champion of sex. By the end I couldn't even look her in the eyes... I couldn’t come clean with her, and I just couldn’t go on like this anymore. In all honesty I had lost all attraction for her. And trust me, she’s an easy 9.5 honey-bunny for her age, but damn, how can she compete to those 6 luscious 19-22 year olds I had on that last trip! It just wasn’t fair for her to be with a guy like me. And so, after much internal conflict, I wound up walking away from a 13 year relationship, with the sincere hopes that she will find a good man who will make her as happy as she deserves to be.


Ruff, I appreciate guilt. Without being too self-revelatory, I will admit that there have been times where my conscience or guilt got in the way of my enjoyment of a session.

Here's the first piece of armchair psychological advice you
'll get from me. Today is a new day, your marriage and 106 chicas are behind you, now decide what it is you really need, and then pursue it.

Because I know how I will feel if I try to start a real relationship with someone, I know that I am pretty ‘doomed’ to settle with someone who has had just as ‘adventurous’ of a past so that I won’t be judged when I come clean. If not, the guilt will eventually overcome me again and I will not consider myself worthy of this person’s love, and these feelings will manifest somehow or another and adversely affect the relationship. What a dilemma… What can I do now, either forever be single and survive off of meaningless encounters, both here in the USA with hootchies at the bar or in foreign countries with working kittens? I don’t know. And the older I get, the harder it will be to find that special someone with no serious baggage and/or who hasn’t been either divorced already or has Phuck-trophies of her own from another man.

And therein lies the problem. You know by now that you are both inherently polygamous while at the same time being riddled with guilt for your need for variety. You feel compelled to "come clean." Sometime, over Jaegerbombs or something you can tell me why. You were/are a player...perhaps the secret isn't in finding a woman with a wild past, but perhaps finding a woman equal to you in intellect, libido and health, regardless of her age or appearance. The psych pros would call that maturity.

But now I think I’m rambling so I will end this post. I guess all in all what I am saying is that, first of all, for those who are considering or have ever considered trying to make a relationship with a working girl, I say why the Phuck not. We are no better than them because of what we do compared to what they do. As a matter of fact, when it all weighs down, I think we are worse, and if anyone should worry about not fulfilling their end of the bargain in a relationship, I would think the girls should be more weary of us than vice versa, only because of where they met us. I personally would never go at a relationship with a working girl myself (never say never), but by all means, if it genuinely feels right, so be it. And for all those failed attempts in the past, it would be unfair to say it was ALWAYS THE GIRL'S FAULT. Once again, as men, we're no angels, and sometimes we ask for the girls to do bad shit with the bullshit we pull ourselves. I wouldn't be so quick to say that a relationship would fail strictly because of what the girl does for employment... it may just as easily be that the relationship may fail because you are a dog. We have no right to judge their past... not with such a promiscuous past of our own...

If we accept that all of us are imperfect beings, each with his/her own baggage, quirks and odious aspects, then anyone can become a couple. The secret here will be to enter the LTR with the (hopefully ex) working girl with eyes wide open, a headfull of honest self-knowledge, enough cash and a healthy heart.
Second of all, my thoughts lean towards a slight ‘monger’s remorse’ that has slowly but surely began to sink in. What does this say about me? How can I ever have a healthy monogamous relationship with someone of my age range after all the hedonism I’ve experienced in life? Am I destined to die alone now? Will I ever believe in or experience genuine love? I don’t know…

Don’t think I am looking for sympathy or pity. I really just wanted to throw my thoughts and feelings out on this, and hopefully read thoughts from others who have lived this and have maybe gone through similar phases. All thoughts and comments are welcome, even if it’s something along the lines of “Ruffnutz, you’re such a pu*sy…and you just need to get laid.”

So be it. For the record, am I thinking of retiring my monger jersey?… Phuck NO…at least not yet. As a matter of fact, I’ll be in paradise in exactly 49 hours from now, and the debauchery intended for this trip will outdo all others, that I can guarantee…

Thanks for reading,
Ruff, I know that you played to win during your early September rut in San Jose. It's simple, man. It always has been. Forgive yourself as readily as you forgive others. Like yourself enough to joyfully accept the fact that you are in all respects, a true Sexy Bitch. And buy that Ozomatli record I told you about. :)

You're one hell of a wing, Ruffnutz.

Ruffnutz

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:05 am 
CR Virgin - Newbie!

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You're completely correct that we have more reason to be ashamed than the women do. They are supporting their families and we are using them as our playthings. I see so many BM patrons being disrespectful to the women and they endure this humiliation because they need the money.

I know I'd never marry someone my age because I am adicted to youth and beauty. It is adicting.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:41 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
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I too will never marry someone my age... life's too short. Especially when there are so many beautiful kittens in COSTA RICA.

Here's an old adage to think about, regarding your mongering ways. You can insert any location here... "A whore in Texas can make a perfect wife in Chicago." You know what I'm saying?

Love is in the air.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:54 pm 
Not a Newbie I just don't post much!

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What you feed grows. What you starve dies. The longer you monger and look at sexual images, the more it becomes a part of you. You may start out as a 4 or 5 on a monger scale, but the longer you stay in this hobby you will eventually go to a 10. It's not a pasttime, it's a path. Separating love and sex is not natural. They were meant to go hand in hand. The longer you stay in this "hobby" the more your soul will become hollowed out.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:07 pm 
I can do CR without a wingman!

Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 11:53 pm
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Location: "Land of the Ice Queens w lawyers"
an older man is talking with a young boy....

Old guy says...
In my heart, there live two wolves... powerful wolves...

one is cruel and vicious, a killer.... the other one is wise and kind....

They war against each other every day, fighting for control...

but, the boys says with wide eyes... which one will win?

Whichever one I feed, says the man....

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:43 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
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Jebapafu1 wrote:
What you feed grows. What you starve dies. The longer you monger and look at sexual images, the more it becomes a part of you. You may start out as a 4 or 5 on a monger scale, but the longer you stay in this hobby you will eventually go to a 10. It's not a pasttime, it's a path. Separating love and sex is not natural. They were meant to go hand in hand. The longer you stay in this "hobby" the more your soul will become hollowed out.


Very nice contribution Jebapafu. Exactly the type of issues I've been dealing with lately since my decision to pull out of the mongering biz. No regrets whatsoever about past activities, but sometimes I wish I could de-program some of it out of my brain to make the transition a little easier...


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:32 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!

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Jebapafu1,

Yikes !!! I do see some truth here--maybe that's why it is scary!
But I'd sure as hell rather stay at 4 or 5 than go to ZERO !
The rule of moderation can be applied in many aspects of life.

GREAT POST!

My problem is I like to feed everything that interests me. :shock:


Last edited by Zippy on Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:37 pm 
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Jeba..cool post. Couldn't agree with you MORE. It is a slow destructive path. As I have said many times in the past. It is just as destructive as drugs or alcohol for the addict. We have even read it in other veterans postings.

dapanz1

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