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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:09 pm 
EC, with all due respect.

You are right about the spirit of the fourth amendment but wrong about airport searches being in violation of the fourth amendment.

Airport searches have been deemed REASONABLE by the courts and this is what you are missing. I searched the internet and read a lot and even posted on craigslist.org legal forum to get opinions. (http://forums.craigslist.org/?forumID=73 - Searches by TSA - Need a legal opinion) The fourth protects us against UNREASONABLE searches.

All of my comments before where simply from a common sense perspective based on TV and newspapers (sorry - my bad!!!!). But for more reasons than to argue with you about this, I posted on craigslist and did a few internet searches to get some real answers. I figure since we are traveling it is best to tell everyone the truth so no one argues with TSA (get themselves in trouble - easy to do at the airport - can Phuck up a CR trip for real).

The search on yahoo or google is easy - search on "fourth amendment." For more detail - "fourth amendment airport searches." Some links you'll find a lot of legal anaylsis and some you'll find the non-legal speak about reasonable and unreasonable searches and what the courts have upheld with respect to the our constitution. From what I read, the courts have upheld that airport searches are reasonable under our constitution.

You are right about this too "Forget the hotel laundries; there are several good fluff n' fold places who will do a kilo of laundry for around $1.60." If you search the forum there is a reference to one of these places that is very close to the Prez.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:42 pm 
I can do CR without a wingman!
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SparkChaser69 posted this elsewhere. Wile Coyote

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:17 pm 
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Dwayne2864 wrote:
EC, with all due respect.

You are right about the spirit of the fourth amendment but wrong about airport searches being in violation of the fourth amendment.

Airport searches have been deemed REASONABLE by the courts and this is what you are missing. I searched the internet and read a lot and even posted on craigslist.org legal forum to get opinions. (http://forums.craigslist.org/?forumID=73 - Searches by TSA - Need a legal opinion) The fourth protects us against UNREASONABLE searches.


I humbly acknowledge your research on the "real life" situation vis-a-vis court decisions. It's too damn bad.

The "spirit" of the 4th Amendment then, has not been carried into law or into practice. It's a shame.

:cry:

All of my comments before where simply from a common sense perspective based on TV and newspapers (sorry - my bad!!!!). But for more reasons than to argue with you about this, I posted on craigslist and did a few internet searches to get some real answers. I figure since we are traveling it is best to tell everyone the truth so no one argues with TSA (get themselves in trouble - easy to do at the airport - can Phuck up a CR trip for real).

Yes, you're right. I was never suggesting that anyone bitch about the searches while at the airport. Again, a crying shame when we were to have been guaranteed free speech and redress of grievances. Heil, Homeland!
But guys, really...listen to Duane. If and when you're asked at the airport your opinion of the searches, simply reply with a bleat.

By the way, you don't even have to make yourself a high profile traveler to make the "no-fly" list. Recently, the police chief of the next town north of me (population 12,000) was informed he could no longer fly. No reason has been given, and no chance for redress of grievances. And he didn't even complain about being searched.

The search on yahoo or google is easy - search on "fourth amendment." For more detail - "fourth amendment airport searches." Some links you'll find a lot of legal anaylsis and some you'll find the non-legal speak about reasonable and unreasonable searches and what the courts have upheld with respect to the our constitution. From what I read, the courts have upheld that airport searches are reasonable under our constitution.

Reasonable. Thanks for the basic lesson in how to doo a Google search. I never could have figured out the search string for myself.

You are right about this too "Forget the hotel laundries; there are several good fluff n' fold places who will do a kilo of laundry for around $1.60." If you search the forum there is a reference to one of these places that is very close to the Prez.


I know. I posted the thread about Lavanderia Dryclean Camila. There are also no fewer than 3 others within 1 km. of the HDR.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:38 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
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Laundry service at the Presidente is a rip-off!!! Take your clothes to the lavenderia around the corner. If you don't know where it's at, look for the shoe shine boy out front name Christin, he almost always wears a skull cap. He will be more than happy to walk you there.

The service is great... drop off in the morning, ready for pick up at 1pm.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:36 pm 
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First on the clothing question. I also like to travel light (carry-on only). I do so mainly so I don't have to check any luggage. Forget about having it searched, how about lost or damaged. My suggestions are pretty much along the lines of the others. I wear my most voluminous clothing on my person on the plane. This means my heaviest gauge pants (usually my jeans), long sleeved shirts (this also means it won't get as wrinkled as if I pack it), with one of my T's underneath and shoes (usually my athletic shoes). I find that one pair of jeans can go several days without wash, especially if I alternate days and let them air out. Shirts are another matter. I also bring a pair of dress/casual pants (usually docker types). With a nice shirt these will probably be as nice as you're likely to need (unless you're planning on attending a wedding or state function). I never wear shorts when going out in SJ (day or night) but I also bring a swim trunks that can pass as "street shorts" and which I can self wash and dry out quickly. I'll wear those when I go to the beach or when hanging out in my hotel room (thereby extendng my longer pants usability). As I said before shirts are where the real problem is for me. I sweat mostly in my pits and along my back (so I don't need to shave my nuts, TMI?) This means I can go easily go through a shirt everyday. So I'll usually take at a minimum 2 T-shirts, 2 nice polo shirts and the nice long-sleeve dressier (but not dress) shirt that I wore on the plane. That dress shirt if worn just when I'm going out at night is good for at least 2 special nights, the polo's are good for a few more neat but not quite as dressy nights. For shoes, besides my athletics, I have a pair of black leather rockports with sneaker-like rubberized soles. They are super light and comfortable for walking but can also pass as dress/casual shoes. That will get you close to a week add another pair of jeans and a couple more polo shirts if you need a little longer. Beyond that, if you're not staying in a hotel (or even if you are if you have more than just a couple of items) take El C's advice and go to a wash, dry and fold. They're cheap enough and well worth the advantage of not having to carry more luggage. All of that can easily fit in one carry-on if you know how to pack.

On the subject of luggage locks, I knew about the problem of TSA opening bags so I never lock anything when I have something to check. I didn't know about the special locks that DD referred to and will definitely look into that. Even then, locked or not, I would never leave anything of value in a checked bag. Whether you like to believe it or not, I've heard many stories of baggage handlers going through bags and there is also the risk of damage whether the bag is opened or not. Not only do I make sure all my valuable papers are in my carry-on but anything else of value is in my carry-on as well including cameras, camcorders, computer gear, sometimes binoculars, you name it. Despite all that I still bring a travel lock with me and its not for the plane. I use it for the luggage in my room. I'm sure most maids won't risk their jobs pilfering through luggage, but you never know and of course the chicas we bring back to our rooms would never go through our luggage when we are asleep or not looking. If nothing else a lock on the bag dissuades people from looking where they don't belong.

Finally, on the political debate. I never thought I'd say this, but for the most part I agree with Dwayne. When we buy that ticket and get on that plane we agree to comply with certain terms and conditions whether we think those terms fair or not. Also, IF searching my bags AND those of my fellow passengers makes my flight safer, then that's certainly a small price to pay. I have nothing to hide really and could care less if some guy I'll never see finds my 24 pack of condoms. While I may not be crazy about someone else going through my things, neither is anyone else. Unfortunately, the TSA has no other way of knowing whether my bag or that of the middle-eastern looking gentleman sitting next to me has something in our bags that shouldn't be there. I can't fairly say don't search my bags but expect them to search anyone else's. So I'll let them.

The problem on the other side of the debate is severalfold. First of all, it has recently come out that, despite all this fuss, the TSA really only ends up checking less than 1% of the bags that get loaded on the plane. So it is highly questionable whether this process makes the flights at all safer. Checking a significant percentage of them would probably not be practical in terms of either cost or in terms of resultant flight delays. Perhaps the possibility that one's bag might get searched provides a discouragement for would-be terrorists from trying to bomb a plane that way but I doubt it. The TSA has to get it right 100% of the time the terrorist only need to "succeed" once.

The other problem is with the larger issues of privacy rights when it comes to the Patriot Act in general. We might disagree about the efficacy of the TSA searching our luggage, but at least a stronger case can be made for that than some of the other areas of the Act. The problem, El C, is that whether you think it unconstitutional or not doesn't really matter. Until it is overturned by the Supreme Court or repealed by Congress it is the law of the land and with the current administration continuing the trend to packing the court system with justices in the mold of Thomas and Scalia (what do they call the current nominee? Scalito?), it seems unlikely that any change is going to come from there.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:02 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
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As far as packing, My carryon is very similar to Prolijo, always save a little room in the add'l backpack for a bag of Lollipops for the staff at Sportsmens along with my laptop, both for music and burning CD's for my favorita, not to mention my favorite spanish translation software....

Never have a hotel do you laundry, they like to charge a lot for that service....

I always rent private condoi's on the beach for a few days, they always have a washer and dryer if that is your pleasure or I would use the advice and go to a lavenderia..(sic)

As far as the political debate, I think although the security people at the airports leave a lot to be desired....I have had no problem in the past or will I in the future about my bags being searched after 9/11. In fact I do not think they do enough security wise.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:46 am 
I can do CR without a wingman!

Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:50 pm
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actually, my planned bag is much like Prolijo's.Nice to know I don't need anything else. I try to pack light now, even though a larger bag would be nice, because I have twice had my bag pilfered by baggage handlers. The problem is that they're cagey, and if you don't check and notice something missing at the airport you're SOL, because once you leave they're no longer responsible (or at least that's the attitude that the airlines have taken with me) despite verbal and written complaints and campaigns through various levels of airline personnel and executives. If you have your bag onboard then it's no longer an issue. of course it also means you can't bring certain things with you, and it's nice to have the larger bag for that( books, extra shoes, clothes, etc,etc) I never travelled without my knife but now I'm no longer able to. The upside is that you don't risk losing anything, or having it redirected, and no waiting for luggage at the arrival area.

As for the political thing, I'm not American, so my take is probably different, but I don't transport anything that I worry about people seeing (except maybe some photos) and I'm not worried about somebody pawing through my condoms or underwear. While I understand the privacy issue, I'm not concerned with what I have in my bag, and I am reassured that flights are safer. I'm more concerned about people accessing my personal and banking info, since it's usually something you're not aware of and is more difficult to protect against.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:52 am 
I can do CR without a wingman!

Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:50 pm
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btw, as someone who has trimmed or removed hair here and there, I completely understand the need for hygiene and body neatness, but I have never even considered shaving my balls. Prolijo, how do you do it without cutting your nutsack to ribbons? :?: :shock: :D


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:11 am 
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" Prolijo, how do you do it without cutting your nutsack to ribbons? "


Very Very carefully!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:16 am 
I can do CR without a wingman!

Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:50 pm
Posts: 192
Location: Canada
No kidding!

If it's anything sharper than some chica's teeth I don't want it anywhere near there! :P

I must admit to curiousity though, and I think all the creams warn you against using them on "the boys"


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