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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:40 am 
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Zelaya is guilty of breaking the law and as such deserves impeachment.

The folks who deposed him via coup d'etat are also guilty of breaking the law -- specifically Article 3 of the Honduran Constitution. Two wrongs don't make a right.

One aspect of this situation put out by Zelaya's opponents is the "Zelaya was trying to change the constitution to get re-elected in the upcoming election and become Permanent President". That is not accurate -- he couldn't have, regardless of the outcome of the referendum.

Zelaya's referendum had one question: "do you want to have a fourth ballot box in the upcoming November elections to decided whether to convoke a constitutional assembly - yes or no?".

If the referendum passed, the Honduran electorate would have voted for having a constitutional assembly in the upcoming November election - yes or no.

If THAT passed, and the assembly convened, only then could Zelaya (or anyone, for that matter) could propose an amendment to change the constitution to eliminate term limits. Which would have to be approved by the Constitutional Assembly.

Only at that point could Zelaya stand for re-election in a FUTURE election. He was already ineligible to stand for re-election for this one.

That's a lot of IFs. Whether this was Zelaya's agenda is moot -- he was trying to get the Constitution changed. He tried to do it the wrong way? Fine. Impeach him. But staging a coup d'etat just set back democracy in Honduras 50 years.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:22 am 
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Miamiheller,

Zelaya SHOULD have been impeached rather than overthrown by military means and now that he has finally agreed to drop his efforts to change the constitution through questionable means, he probably should be allowed back in (where the Congress can then decide whether or not to pursue impeachment). OTOH, I'm not so sure whether the military that deposed him were guilty of anything since they were only following the orders of the Supreme Court and the Congress, who are probably better arbiters of the Honduran Constitution than you or me (and quickly installed a temporary civilian leader rather than a general and called for new elections within 6 months).

As for the main part of your post: To try and paint Zelaya's recent moves as something completely innocent that doesn't even apply to him is either disingenuous or else blissfully ignorant of the true context of what is really going on.

It is always a little suspect whenever a sitting politician who is ineligible to run for another term tries to remove the term limits applying to his own position and even more so in Latin America where democratic traditions are not deep and its leaders, both military and civilian, have a history of trying to maintain their power by various means. Given the similar recent moves to remove constitutional term limits made by Chavez and all his other closest allies in Latin America (Correa in Ecuador, Ortega in Nicaragua and Morales in Ecuador), one has to be much more than a little suspicious that Zelaya's recent moves are just the beginnings of such an effort to keep his job indefinitely. Apparently, the other democratic institutions in Honduras - the Congress and the Supreme Court - have similar fears since THEY were the ones that directed the military to do what it did. It should probably should also be pointed out that Chavez's other closest ally, Cuba, doesn't have any term limits and not coincidentally has had, until recently, the essentially the same president since its last military overthrow 50 years ago. I'm sorry but replacing yourself with your brother when you become to ancient and sickly to lead does not count as a true democratic transfer of power. To be completely fair to the "Bolivareans" aren't the only ones making these moves. Uribe in Colombia is also attempting the same sort of power grab. Also to be completely fair a lot of the impetus for these moves comes from the fact that all these leaders (the Castros and Ortega excepted) enjoy arguably high popularity.

In the case of the "Bolivareans", their popularity comes from the poor masses whose support they have bought with long overdue concessions and aid to ameliorate their plight. Call it Robin Hood stealing from the rich and giving it to the poor or call it robbing Peter to pay Paul, such extreme marxist practices have always proven to ultimately reduce the prosperity of all concerned, first in the old Soviet Bloc and currently in each of these Latin American countries whose economies have suffered as a result of their new leaders practices. At the other extreme, the wide divide between rich and poor ignorant masses and the previous unbridled and unfair control of power by the ruling oligarchs (through the "democratic" puppet leaders they paid to elect) provided the opening for this new breed of political demogogue to gain control. Uribe is a little different. His popularity does not come from stealing from one group to pay off another but because he has successfully cracked down on the narco-gangs and guerrilla groups which have destabilized Colombia for so long, bringing an improved security and quality of life for ALL Colombians.

Their are many types of dictatorships. It doesn't just come from the military, although sometimes , as right now in Iran, it takes the military to prop up an unpopular "elected" leader. A civilian leader can use his power to control the media and hence the public debate, as Chavez has done in Venezuela. A civilian leader can control the whole election process or if he can't, as Zelaya was unable to do, he can have an outside party like Venezuela fly in and distribute the ballots for him. Or a civilian leader who can't be re-elected because of wise term limits, can either use the powers of his incumbancy to see that his hand chosen successor gets elected in his stead (e.g. Putin and Medvedev) or in the case of oligarchies his political patrons can see that THEIR chosen successor gets elected in his stead by outspending the opposition 10:1 (as Arias and the oligarchs of CR are trying to do with Chinchilla). Term limits are obviously an imperfect solution, as are military coups, but in places with young democracies and histories of political corruption, they are a necessary evil.

Here is an article from the Americas Quarterly:

Quote:
Term Limits can Check Corruption and Promote Political Accountability
by
Steven Griner
Executives should not be allowed to run for re-election indefinitely.
Since the mid-1990s, no fewer than 10 countries of Latin America have attempted to reform, rewrite or reinterpret their constitutions. The chief motivation has been to extend the mandate of a popular chief executive. For the most part, public debate has concentrated on extending, but not eliminating, presidential term limits. Yet as stunted and unequal growth exacerbates political polarization, interest has mounted in doing away altogether with term limits. This would be a mistake. Term limits provide an important check on the concentration of power; they strengthen democracy and ensure long-term stability.

Term limits fall into three general categories: the complete prohibition of re-election (Mexico); a limit to two consecutive terms of usually four years (Brazil); and the prohibition of consecutive re-election (Chile). The latter restriction has the practical effect of limiting the executive to two, often very distinct, terms in office as exemplified by the administrations of Alan García in Peru and Oscar Arias in Costa Rica.

At the moment, several incumbent governments in Latin America are trying to allow a third presidential term; one, Venezuela has eliminated executive term limits altogether. Of course, there is a distinction between eliminating and extending term limits, but the difference has been less perceptible during the last decade. The longer a chief executive holds power, the more the delineation between the state and the ruling party becomes blurred. A third term erodes the balance of power and weakens the authority of autonomous legislatures, independent judiciaries, neutral electoral authorities, and competitive political parties. Forays into a third term and beyond distract from implementing important policies, contribute to political polarization and smack of soft authoritarianism.

Brazil, one of the largest democracies in the world, is one of the best illustrations of the benefits of term limits. Presidents are banned from serving beyond a second term. As a result, government and opposition forces over the past 16 years have developed an equilibrium of power, which in turn has helped the country address its deepest problems through consensus. The result has been internationally acclaimed antipoverty programs, including conditional cash transfers and long-term investments in primary education.

Defeating a long-sitting president in Latin America is a forbidding task. The spontaneous, ad hoc efforts to tweak constitutions to expand the mandates of sitting presidents has not been followed by meaningful legislation to control the use and abuse of state resources in an electoral campaign. There are few rules that determine when a president seeking re-election is a chief of state, with unrivaled and unfettered access to public resources, and when he or she is a presidential candidate, drawing on private or public campaign funds. Even in the most consolidated of multiparty democracies, international observers have reported flagrant use of state resources during the electoral campaign.

Eliminating or unduly extending term limits engenders corruption, the main cause of public distrust in democratic institutions, and a significant obstacle to economic development in the region. Latin American presidents possess a disproportionate amount of influence over other branches of government. In the face of political gridlock, they can rule by decree. They can choose and dismiss their cabinets with little or no congressional oversight and hire and fire other officials at will. In times of emergency, they can suspend basic civil rights and possess significant economic and political influence over the media.

Peruvian President Alberto Fujimori’s heavy-handed efforts to concentrate his presidential powers and his continued efforts to extend his mandate met with popular support at first: In 1990, he easily won an absolute majority of the vote. His shutdown of congress in 1992 met with even higher public approval ratings. Yet, as the shine on his important victories against terrorism and inflation faded, so did the patience of his electorate. By 2000, despite significant opposition to his administration, Fujimori was able to win a third term using a pernicious mix of bribery, intimidation and state largesse. Had Fujimori abided by the existing term limits, his legacy might have been a different one. As it was, the transition of power in 2001 shook Peruvian democracy to its core, its former hero turned villain.

With term limits, transitions take place as a natural course of events in the democratic system. Politics ceases to be viewed as a zero-sum game. Ruling parties are able to cultivate new leadership which can carry on the successful policies of their former leaders, but also correct for past missteps. They can remake themselves in the public eye and adapt to the dynamic challenges of the world around them. Such has been the case of Chile, where the Concertación has governed for four consecutive terms with four presidents representing three different political parties.

Likewise, the opposition is more likely to remain a loyal opposition, rather than try to upset the system, since it can envision taking power one day via a free and fair election. Peaceful transitions in Brazil, Uruguay and El Salvador have helped political parties maintain relevance even when they are not in power. Indeed, public perception of democracy, always a fluid measure of democratic stability, appears to be enhanced in democracies where a transition from one party to another has taken place.

Of course, term limits alone will not guarantee a flourishing multiparty democracy. Despite its promise of “Universal Suffrage and No Re-election,” the Mexican Revolution did not usher in a meaningful multi-party democracy until seventy years later. To avoid another dictatorship, Paraguayans carefully included a no re-election clause in its constitution, yet the reign of the Colorado Party remained unbroken for nineteen more years until the election of Fernando Lugo last year. In both countries, however, presidential succession between individuals, even of the same party, paralleled a gradual change in political reform. Moreover, the vigorous, even acrimonious, debate within the ruling parties demonstrated the vulnerabilities of the ruling party and provided important opportunities for the opposition in the general elections. The legacy of “No Re-election,” one important check on the otherwise unrivaled power of these political parties, contributed in some small measure to the eventual peaceful transitions of power.

It is telling that when the issue of re-election was broached by sitting presidents in Mexico and Paraguay, party leaders and the public roundly rejected the idea. Today, the electorate in Latin America remains highly ambivalent about lifting one of the few checks on their executive. In 2007, Venezuelans rejected unlimited re-election of the executive. The measure was eventually passed in a “doover” vote fourteen months later; even in defeat, though, more than five million people voiced their preference for term limits. As President Álvaro Uribe contemplates an unprecedented third term, public opinion in Colombia has voiced significant skepticism.

Efforts to extend term limits beyond two terms are not driven by ideology. Their impetus comes from governments whose power is unrivaled and popularity unprecedented. In politics, though, both power and popularity are ephemeral. In a democracy, the electorate should maintain its prerogative to change its mind, and politicians should have the opportunity to encourage it to do so.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:00 pm 
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Here as an interesting article on the subject. I read www.counterpunch.com a lot to get my news. It doesn't tend to be as full of propaganda as other news sites and sources. Does have some radicals writing there at times though...

The Usurpers of Tegucigalpa
Honduras: a Coup With No Future
By VICTOR FIGUEROA-CLARK and PABLO NAVARRETE

Sunday’s overthrow of Honduran President Manuel Zelaya has vividly raised the spectre of Latin America ’s dark history: coups de etat and brutal military dictatorships. In a break with the past however, the region is speaking in unison, condemning the new dictatorship and calling for Zelaya to be reinstated as President. And significantly, the US government has joined its southern neighbours in rejecting the new dictatorship and recognising Zelaya as Honduras’ only legitimate president.

Regional bodies such as the OAS, the Rio Group, ALBA, Mercosur and UNASUR have also called for the restoration of the constitutionally elected president. Furthermore, Zelaya has received the support of the Inter American Human Rights Commission, and been invited to address the UN General Assembly “as soon as possible” by its President, Miguel D’Escoto. After this address Zelaya plans to return to Honduras , accompanied by Jose Miguel Insulza, the Secretary General of the OAS, and possibly other regional heads of state, with the aim of being reinstated as President.

The story behind the coup Honduras is a deeply unequal country, with the richest 10% of the population taking home 43.7% of the National Income. In contrast, the poorest 30% take just 7.4%, and just under 40% of the population live in poverty (defined as earning less than double the cost of the basic food basket). Only 4.7% of Hondurans have access to the internet, which might go some way to explaining the social background of Honduran coup cheerleaders on English-language websites such as the BBC’s.

Since coming to power in 2006 President Zelaya has gradually moved to the left, and at the time of the coup was taking steps to address Honduras ’ gross levels of inequality. Predictably, these moves earned him the enmity of much of Congress, whose ties to the country’s traditional elites run deep. Zelaya also angered the these elites by pursuing a leftist foreign policy, joining the Bolivarian Alternative for the Americas (ALBA), an alterative regional trade group composed of nine left-leaning Latin American and Caribbean countries. The arrival of Cuban doctors to provide healthcare to the poorest sectors of Honduran society, was met with particular hostility by Zelaya’s opponents.

Honduras’ leftward turn also undoubtedly caused significant discomfort among some in Washington , especially at a time when much of Latin America has seemed to move beyond the reach of US political influence.

The catalyst for the assault on the Presidential home by the Honduran armed forces, and the subsequent detention and expulsion of the President from the country was the non-binding consultative poll that was due to take place on Sunday (June 28th) on whether a referendum ought to be held on the convocation of a constituent assembly, alongside the Presidential election ballot in November 2010 (when Zelaya’s term ends). In other words, the coup was sparked by a non-binding vote intended to consult Hondurans on whether or not they wanted to be asked about a constitutional reform, and not because Zelaya wished to extend his term indefinitely, as has been widely reported in the mainstream international media.

This last point is one of several lies and misleading statements issued by the new dictatorship, which have been amply covered uncritically in the mainstream media. Another key one is that the coup is in fact a “constitutional transfer of power”. This requires a bizarre leap in logic if we consider the facts of Zelaya’s overthrow: the President’s home was assaulted by the military; after 15 minutes of combat the President himself was kidnapped and bundled into a military aircraft in his pyjamas and flown into exile; his Ministers were detained and beaten, alongside the ambassadors of Cuba , Nicaragua and Venezuela.

While Honduras’ new and illegally installed “president”, Roberto Micheletti (the former leader of Congress), has declared that “80 or 90 percent of the population support what happened today”, this is highly doubtful given the imposition of a curfew, the ongoing street demonstrations by Zelaya’s supporters, road blockades in the west of the country, and the general strike called for by social organisations and the trade union movement. However, as is the norm with coups against progressive leaders in Latin America , Micheletti has received expressions of support from the country’s business sector.

What remains to be seen is whether the Honduran military will be prepared to shed the blood of its countrymen to protect an illegal government with no visible international backing.

And here, as is also the norm with coups against progressive governments in Latin America, the words and actions of the US government, closely watched as ever, will be decisive. While the Obama administration has joined Latin America’s governments in condemning the coup the US ’ precise role in the days running up to the coup still remain unclear.

While there is little direct evidence of US interference in Honduras ’ coup, Eva Golinger has indicated certain similarities between the US-supported coup that briefly removed Hugo Chavez from power in Venezuela in 2002, and the current situation in Honduras . Gollinger points out that a New York Times article states that the US government was working for “several days” with the Honduran coup planners in order to “prevent” the coup. Given that Honduras is highly dependent on the US economy and that the Pentagon maintains a military base in the country, equipped with approximately 500 troops and numerous air force combat planes and helicopters, it would seem naïve not to believe that if the US government had expressed their firm opposition to the coup, it would never have occurred. Furthermore, the US’ track record of undermining and supporting and participating in the overthrow of democratically elected government in Latin America cannot be overlooked.

Regardless of the extent of US involvement in, or support for the coup, the US ’ position in the next couple of days will go a long way to determining whether its already precarious relationship with much of Latin America will deteriorate. The US has several options here: it can send a representative to accompany President Zelaya back to Honduras on Thursday, and it can threaten military, economic and political sanctions, all of which would have a strong effect on the usurpers of power in Tegucigalpa.

If Obama’s government wants to send a powerful message about the sincerity behind the US ’ rhetoric on liberty, democracy, and respect for the rule of law, it needs to accompany words with actions, and actively support the reinstatement of Honduras ’ legitimate president.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:01 pm 
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We are reminded that even sincere reformers if allowed to keep power too long, become drunk with power and torpid with complacency and corruption--spiritual if not physical. Examples include Mugabe in Zimbabwe, Marcos in the Philippines and FDR (and the Democrats) in the US. The latter showed the need for Executive term limits in the US. Very simply put, the genuine reformist zeal runs out of gas over time but the desire to hold and exercise power for its own sake never does.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:32 pm 
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JazzboCR wrote:
The latter showed the need for Executive term limits in the US. Very simply put, the genuine reformist zeal runs out of gas over time but the desire to hold and exercise power for its own sake never does.


Executive term limits are fine but until they have legislative term limits (never going to happen :evil: ) at the federal level you really have not done much to curb the excesses. I specifically said federal because many states already have term limited legislators. For those states that do not I believe my comments apply there too.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:56 pm 
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remember the good old days when they would go to war over more sensible things like soccer matches?

:lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:01 pm 
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I agree with both Jazz and ID. My point is, if term limits are a good idea in the US with its comparatively free press, much stronger minority rights laws and technologically advanced voting systems (which has still run into serious problems in states like MN, OH and FL), how much more critical is it in democratically immature societies like those found in Latin America. I think it was pretty clear that Zelaya was pushing this idea so that he could run again, if not now then in the next election after this, but even if he pledged to exempt himself from this and all future elections and retire himself from politics altogether, I think it would be a bad idea to throw out this limited constitutional protection, lest some future president abuse the power of his office by actions against the press and opponents of their rule as Chavez has done in Venezuela. And the problem of term limits also applies equally well to rightist leaders (just consider the disasterous 2nd term of Fujimori in Peru).

I also agree with TW that it is hard to figure out what is really going on based upon what we've been able to read because of a heavy bias by nearly everyone one way or the other. HOWEVER, I'm not so sure that the article TW presented is so fair and objective either and even TW admits that in general the source of the article tends to print stories more favorable to the liberal side. The problem I have with it relates to the suggestion that the Obama Administration must have at least tacitly approved this coup in advance because the Bush Administration did that in 2002 with a coup attempt in Venezuela. However these are 2 very different administrations and all the commentary by administration officials SINCE the coup show that they are anything but supportive of it. Does the author of the article think that just because the country is so heavily dependent on the US, it clears everything it does with the US or that just because the US expresses some reservations about some of the policies proposed by officials in Honduras those officials always heed those warnings? If that were so I'm sure US officials warned Zelaya that he was treading on dangerous ground with his persistent constitutional reform efforts but that didn't stop Zelaya from continuing to move forward with those efforts not only in the face of US misgivings but also in spite of repeated warnings by all sectors of the Honduran government itself. Ultimately, many people, whether military generals, ruling oligarchs or would-be leftist reformers, will do whatever they think is right for themselves and/or their country (or think what is best for them IS what is best for their country) and will pay little heed to what others may think.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:16 pm 
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Greengo wrote:
Honduras is largely owned and operated by a consortium of panamanian families and friends..universally known and revered as the... "Panama Hut".. :shock:


Touche and thank you, Greengo.

The bottom line is that this guy was fixing on rigging the "Democratic" "constitution" so that he could continue to money grub and solidify his bank accounts. The fact the military got involved is pretty "culturally normal" for Central America. Why does anyone suggest otherwise?

Costa Rica is just a sham of a democracy, controlled by the same type of families that Greengo is referring to relative to Honduras. It's pretty much the same throughout Latin America. There are wars going on in pretty much every one of those Nations from Mexico south that we here in the USA remain ignorant about. Granted, these ain't grand scale conflicts....but in certain sectors of many of the Nations they're growing and winning popular support. Poverty and greed BREED political power which we all know comes via the barrel of a gun (thanks to C. Mao). Why is it any surprise that this rube's grab for power didn't create this dinky little ruckus....let alone the one they could have created?

Things shall continue to deteriorate south of the USA border to the point where them all inclusive COMPOUND RESORTS will be all one can safely go to....if even then.....

Honduras....ah.....how I so lovingly remember San Pedro Sula in 1983/84 with a machine gun nest on durn near every street corner and a scowl should one even dare to try to take a glimpse at the nest.......the good old days are returning.....or did they ever really go away???? Nah.....them that has gets....and they been getting....all along..... Be sure to pick up your guayabera....they're most excellent for concealed carry...!

"During the early 1980s, the United States established a continuing military presence in Honduras with the purpose of supporting the Contra guerillas fighting the Nicaraguan government and also developed an air strip and a modern port in Honduras. Though spared the bloody civil wars wracking its neighbors, the Honduran army quietly waged a campaign against..... (populist) militias such as Cinchoneros Popular Liberation Movement...The operation included a CIA-backed campaign of extra-judicial killings by government-backed units, most notably Battalion 316." ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honduras ) [I personally like that "extra-judicial" authority stuff that is wielded in the USA....].

Think maybe we should have just minded our own business......again? :P

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Last edited by Steven1 on Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:26 pm 
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Dear Mr. Prolijo;

Allow me to address some of each your salient points

1) The military AND the Supreme Court are guilty of violating Article 3 of the Honduran Constitution.

2) The constitution does not contain provisions for using the armed forces to forcibly remove the President.

3) I believe I said at the top of my post President Zelaya was guilty of committing crimes and as such deserves to be impeached.

4) You appear to be under the impression I am "painting Zelaya's moves" as "innocent". I have done nothing of the kind; rather, I pointed out the claim Zelaya was trying to become Presidente Vitalicio during this coming election simply does not hold water because of the reasons I stated. I hope that clears this particular point up for you.

5) It is very likely Zelaya's moves may have been intended to create a situation where he COULD be re-elected at some point in the future. That is what his political opponents are alleging to justify the coup.

6) I believe the root cause of this coup d'etat is a segment of the Honduran people were against Zelaya's leftist politics and were afraid he was trying to emulate Chavez.

7) This was a coup d'etat. Regardless of Zelaya's crimes, certain Hondurans short-circuited their own Constitution to achieve the result they wanted. Unfortunately, they have done so at the expense of their democracy. And that's the only point I am making.


Last edited by Miamiheller on Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:35 pm 
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This may be a simplistic take on the Honduran situation, but from all I've read there are no winners here just different kinds of losers, the biggest of course being the Honduran people. Reading journalists is exciting; reading historians, more insightful. Let's see how it plays in a year.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:38 pm 
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JazzboCR wrote:
This may be a simplistic take on the Honduran situation, but from all I've read there are no winners here just different kinds of losers, the biggest of course being the Honduran people.


This is EXACTLY right, and if I haven't been clear up till now, my position as well.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:54 am 
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One of the more fascinating, deeply-felt and divergently-opinionated Threads you'll find anywhere.
The exact reference for Thirdworld's link is here:
www.CounterPunch.com/kozloff07022009.html
Further reporting on this ongoing situation from a definitely different perspective (journalism at its finest) is here:
www.CounterPunch.com/thorensen07012009.html
There is other commentary listed on the left side of this Website's home page (where else would it be?)--look for especially Benjamin Dangl.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:26 pm 
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An update: Honduras as a pre-emptive strike has quit the OAS:
www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/world/americ ... duras.html
This link takes you to an earlier article about the OAS' actions.
www.nytimes.com/2009/07/06/world/americ ... duras.html
This link is about Pres. Zelaya's attempted return to Honduras.

This situation is getting worse by the day, as both/ all sides get more hardened in their positions.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:48 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 9:30 pm
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Location: San Jose
It looks like Oscar Arias will be shooting for a second Noble Peace Prize.

Quote:
July 7 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton announced today that Costa Rican President Oscar Arias will mediate the standoff between the new regime in Honduras and deposed Honduran president Manuel Zelaya.

Clinton, after meeting with Zelaya at the State Department in Washington, said the ousted leader agreed to participate in the negotiations, to be held imminently in Costa Rica, rather than try to return to Honduras again.

“President Zelaya agreed with this,” Clinton said. “I believe that it is a better route for him to follow at this time than to attempt to return in the face of the implacable opposition of the de facto regime. And so, instead of another confrontation that might result in loss of life, let’s try the dialogue process and see where that leads.”

Clinton said she spoke with Arias, a Nobel Peace Prize winner, and that he said he would be willing to begin negotiations “immediately.” She said the U.S. also received word that interim Honduran President Roberto Micheletti agreed to the negotiations.

“I don’t want to prejudge what the parties themselves will agree to,” Clinton told reporters. “We hope at the end of this mediation there will be a return of democratic constitutional order that is agreed to by all concerned.”

Zelaya, speaking separately to reporters outside the State Department, said he plans to leave tomorrow for Costa Rica. “I already spoke with President Arias,” he said. “I go to be present in what will really be the restoration of democratic government” in Honduras.

Kevin Casas Zamora, a former vice president under Arias, said, “Zelaya respects Arias a great deal and Arias has been very strong in condemning the coup.”

The Costa Rican president is not “eager” to step into the middle of the current conflict but will do what is necessary, Casas Zamora, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution in Washington, said in a phone interview today.

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