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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:43 pm 
Ticas ask me for advice!

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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... :twisted::twisted::twisted:
Is someone knocking on my eithical door, trying bringing his/her’s opinions to this board?????

http://www.awitness.org/prophecy/sexual_morality.html

http://ethics.sandiego.edu/utilitarianism.html

http://philosophy.lander.edu/ethics/kant.html

http://philosophy.lander.edu/ethics/aristotle1.html

Well let me set your prehistoric mind straight…..

Kant: Philosophy 302: Ethics
Kantian Ethics
Abstract: Kant's notion of the good will and the categorical imperative are very briefly sketched here.

Introduction: An attraction to the Kantian doctrines of obligation is begun along the following lines:

(1) If the purpose of life were just to achieve happiness, then we would all seek pleasure and gratification and hope that it would lead to happiness. The problem is that happiness is not totally within our power to achieve; to a large extent, happiness is a matter of luck.

(2) If we are to avoid nihilism and skepticism and our ethics is to work, it must be unconditional (no exceptions) and universal (applicable to all human beings).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I. The good will is the only good without qualification.

The good will is a will that acts for the sake of duty, as a "good-in-itself."


Kant emphasizes these important considerations about duty:


The class of actions in accordance with duty must be distinguished from the class of actions performed for the sake of duty.


Kant believes only actions performed for the sake of duty have moral worth. He seems to suggest that the greater one's disinclination to act for the sake of duty, the greater the moral worth of the action.


If one performs an action by inclination, then that action has no moral worth.


Yet, isn't Aristotle correct in his assessment of the formation of character through habit? Isn't it better to do things from inclination?

E.g., suppose an acquaintance has to struggle with himself not to start rumors about you and is successful. Should his actions be valued more that an acquaintance who is fair to you by habit?


Or as Stace points out, "Isn't it better to do one's duty cheerfully than begrudgingly?"


II. Duty is the necessity of acting out of reverence for universal law. Moral value is essentially established by the intention of the person acting.
Maxim: a particular directive, a subjective principle of volition (a principle upon which you act). The nature of the maxim upon which an action is based is the manner in which intentions are expressed.


Hypothetical Imperative: a conditional maxim based on relative means/ends in the everyday world or every-day circumstances. The goal is not based on pure reason alone but usually upon desires. E.g., "If you want to be confident, then study hard."


Categorical Imperative: a rule stating what ought to be done based upon pure reason alone and not contingent upon sensible desires. "I am never to act otherwise than to will that my maxim should become universal law."


Moral rules, then, have no exceptions. Killing is always wrong. Lying is always wrong.


Ethics, then, is not based on consequences, as it is, for example in utilitarianism. The consequences of our decisions are beyond our control.


Is there a problem with event-description in pure practical reason? No two situations in our experience are alike. How much of a difference makes a difference in the application of the Categorical Imperative?


III. Practical Imperative: "Act to treat humanity, whether yourself or another, as an end-in-itself and never as a means."

Don't use people in order to obtain your goals or seek an edge or unfair advantage.


People have rights which would supercede, for example, the tyranny of the majority in utilitarianism.


How far should respect for persons proceed? What if you are constantly used by other persons? Does the practical imperative imply that we should have no goals?

WTF is up with you???...Some of us have Degree's in more then just mondering.... :shock:

Iggy... :?


Last edited by Igualmente on Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:04 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:52 pm 
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Here's a post from yesterday afternoon:

NYG wrote:
This my last post 8) Enjoy your life 8)


...and now this :arrow:

Dramatist wrote:
...for this reason I've yet to post and will never again.


What the hell is going on here? We've lost 2 posters in less than 24 hours?!?!?

You guys are nothing but school-yard bullies! You should all be ashamed of yourselves! :shock: :o :P

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:56 pm 
Ticas ask me for advice!

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Then there is UTILITARIANISM
by
John Stuart Mill
(1863)

T HERE ARE few circumstances among those which make up the present condition of human knowledge, more unlike what might have been expected, or more significant of the backward state in which speculation on the most important subjects still lingers, than the little progress which has been made in the decision of the controversy respecting the criterion of right and wrong.

From the dawn of philosophy, the question concerning the summum bonum, or, what is the same thing, concerning the foundation of morality, has been accounted the main problem in speculative thought, has occupied the most gifted intellects, and divided them into sects and schools, carrying on a vigorous warfare against one another.

And after more than two thousand years the same discussions continue, philosophers are still ranged under the same contending banners, and neither thinkers nor mankind at large seem nearer to being unanimous on the subject, than when the youth Socrates listened to the old Protagoras, and asserted (if Plato's dialogue be grounded on a real conversation) the theory of utilitarianism against the popular morality of the so-called sophist.

It is true that similar confusion and uncertainty, and in some cases similar discordance, exist respecting the first principles of all the sciences, not excepting that which is deemed the most certain of them, mathematics; without much impairing, generally indeed without impairing at all, the trustworthiness of the conclusions of those sciences.

An apparent anomaly, the explanation of which is, that the detailed doctrines of a science are not usually deduced from, nor depend for their evidence upon, what are called its first principles. Were it not so, there would be no science more precarious, or whose conclusions were more insufficiently made out, than algebra; which derives none of its certainty from what are commonly taught to learners as its elements, since these, as laid down by some of its most eminent teachers, are as full of fictions as English law, and of mysteries as theology.

The truths which are ultimately accepted as the first principles of a science, are really the last results of metaphysical analysis, practised on the elementary notions with which the science is conversant; and their relation to the science is not that of foundations to an edifice, but of roots to a tree, which may perform their office equally well though they be never dug down to and exposed to light.

But though in science the particular truths precede the general theory, the contrary might be expected to be the case with a practical art, such as morals or legislation. All action is for the sake of some end, and rules of action, it seems natural to suppose, must take their whole character and colour from the end to which they are subservient.

When we engage in a pursuit, a clear and precise conception of what we are pursuing would seem to be the first thing we need, instead of the last we are to look forward to. A test of right and wrong must be the means, one would think, of ascertaining what is right or wrong, and not a consequence of having already ascertained it.

The difficulty is not avoided by having recourse to the popular theory of a natural faculty, a sense or instinct, informing us of right and wrong. For- besides that the existence of such- a moral instinct is itself one of the matters in dispute- those believers in it who have any pretensions to philosophy, have been obliged to abandon the idea that it discerns what is right or wrong in the particular case in hand, as our other senses discern the sight or sound actually present.

Our moral faculty, according to all those of its interpreters who are entitled to the name of thinkers, supplies us only with the general principles of moral judgments; it is a branch of our reason, not of our sensitive faculty; and must be looked to for the abstract doctrines of morality, not for perception of it in the concrete. The intuitive, no less than what may be termed the inductive, school of ethics, insists on the necessity of general laws.

They both agree that the morality of an individual action is not a question of direct perception, but of the application of a law to an individual case. They recognise also, to a great extent, the same moral laws; but differ as to their evidence, and the source from which they derive their authority. According to the one opinion, the principles of morals are evident a priori, requiring nothing to command assent, except that the meaning of the terms be understood.

According to the other doctrine, right and wrong, as well as truth and falsehood, are questions of observation and experience. But both hold equally that morality must be deduced from principles; and the intuitive school affirm as strongly as the inductive, that there is a science of morals. Yet they seldom attempt to make out a list of the a priori principles which are to serve as the premises of the science; still more rarely do they make any effort to reduce those various principles to one first principle, or common ground of obligation.

They either assume the ordinary precepts of morals as of a priori authority, or they lay down as the common groundwork of those maxims, some generality much less obviously authoritative than the maxims themselves, and which has never succeeded in gaining popular acceptance. Yet to support their pretensions there ought either to be some one fundamental principle or law, at the root of all morality, or if there be several, there should be a determinate order of precedence among them; and the one principle, or the rule for deciding between the various principles when they conflict, ought to be self-evident.

To inquire how far the bad effects of this deficiency have been mitigated in practice, or to what extent the moral beliefs of mankind have been vitiated or made uncertain by the absence of any distinct recognition of an ultimate standard, would imply a complete survey and criticism, of past and present ethical doctrine. It would, however, be easy to show that whatever steadiness or consistency these moral beliefs have, attained, has been mainly due to the tacit influence of a standard not recognised.

Although the non-existence of an acknowledged first principle has made ethics not so much a guide as a consecration of men's actual sentiments, still, as men's sentiments, both of favour and of aversion, are greatly influenced by what they suppose to be the effects of things upon their happiness, the principle of utility, or as Bentham latterly called it, the greatest happiness principle, has had a large share in forming the moral doctrines even of those who most scornfully reject its authority. Nor is there any school of thought which refuses to admit that the influence of actions on happiness is a most material and even predominant consideration in many of the details of morals, however unwilling to acknowledge it as the fundamental principle of morality, and the source of moral obligation.

I might go much further, and say that to all those a priori moralists who deem it necessary to argue at all, utilitarian arguments are indispensable. It is not my present purpose to criticise these thinkers; but I cannot help referring, for illustration, to a systematic treatise by one of the most illustrious of them, the Metaphysics of Ethics, by Kant.

This remarkable man, whose system of thought will long remain one of the landmarks in the history of philosophical speculation, does, in the treatise in question, lay down a universal first principle as the origin and ground of moral obligation; it is this:

"So act, that the rule on which thou actest would admit of being adopted as a law by all rational beings." But when he begins to deduce from this precept any of the actual duties of morality, he fails, almost grotesquely, to show that there would be any contradiction, any logical (not to say physical) impossibility, in the adoption by all rational beings of the most outrageously immoral rules of conduct.

All he shows is that the consequences of their universal adoption would be such as no one would choose to incur.

On the present occasion, I shall, without further discussion of the other theories, attempt to contribute something towards the understanding and appreciation of the Utilitarian or Happiness theory, and towards such proof as it is susceptible of. It is evident that this cannot be proof in the ordinary and popular meaning of the term.

Questions of ultimate ends are not amenable to direct proof. Whatever can be proved to be good, must be so by being shown to be a means to something admitted to be good without proof. The medical art is proved to be good by its conducing to health; but how is it possible to prove that health is good?

The art of music is good,( or good sex) for the reason, among others, that it produces pleasure; but what proof is it possible to give that pleasure is good? If, then, it is asserted that there is a comprehensive formula, including all things which are in themselves good, and that whatever else is good, is not so as an end, but as a mean, the formula may be accepted or rejected, but is not a subject of what is commonly understood by proof. We are not, however, to infer that its acceptance or rejection must depend on blind impulse, or arbitrary choice.

There is a larger meaning of the word proof, in which this question is as amenable to it as any other of the disputed questions of philosophy. The subject is within the cognisance of the rational faculty; and neither does that faculty deal with it solely in the way of intuition.

Considerations may be presented capable of determining the intellect either to give or withhold its assent to the doctrine; and this is equivalent to proof.

We shall examine presently of what nature are these considerations; in what manner they apply to the case, and what rational grounds, therefore, can be given for accepting or rejecting the utilitarian formula.

But it is a preliminary condition of rational acceptance or rejection, that the formula should be correctly understood. I believe that the very imperfect notion ordinarily formed of its meaning, is the chief obstacle which impedes its reception; and that could it be cleared, even from only the grosser misconceptions, the question would be greatly simplified, and a large proportion of its difficulties removed.

Before, therefore, I attempt to enter into the philosophical grounds which can be given for assenting to the utilitarian standard, I shall offer some illustrations of the doctrine itself; with the view of showing more clearly what it is, distinguishing it from what it is not, and disposing of such of the practical objections to it as either originate in, or are closely connected with, mistaken interpretations of its meaning. Having thus prepared the ground, I shall afterwards endeavour to throw such light as I can upon the question, considered as one of philosophical theory... :twisted:


Where is your ethical ass now!!!!

Iggy... :shock:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:04 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
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Location: The 16th most populous county in the U.S.
Muco Gusto...I can't help but think Quicy Carter is somehow behind this. 2 members hanging it up in less than 24? I don't know about in your part of our state, but the weather in Palm Beach right now rocks. :D
As for the intial post in this thread, I am baffled. But I did enjoy Pacifica's learned reply. :twisted:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:16 pm 
Ticas ask me for advice!

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One more for the Road....

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.... :wink:

Quote:
Eudaimonia (Greek: εὐδαιμονία) is a classical Greek word commonly translated as 'happiness'. Etymologically, it consists of the word "eu" ("good" or "well being") and "daimōn" ("spirit" or "minor deity", used by extension to mean one's lot or fortune). Although popular usage of the term happiness refers to a state of mind, related to joy or pleasure, eudaimonia rarely has such connotations, and the less subjective "human flourishing" is often preferred as a translation

Aristotle was born in 384 B.C..

http://philosophy.lander.edu/ethics/aristotle1.html

Aristotle's Ethics

Abstract: Aristotle's ethics is a common sense ethics built on naturalism and self-realization. Of all the classical theories considered here, his is the farthest from an ethics of self-interest.
I. With respect to the good, right, happiness, the good is not a disposition. The good involves a teleological system that involves actions.
A. Good is that which all things aim. Something is good if it performs its proper function. E.g., a good coffee cup or a good red oak.
1. A right action is that which is conducive to the good, and different goods correspond to the differing sciences and arts.
2. "The god" or best good is that which is desired for its own sake and for the sake which we desire all other ends or goods. For human beings, eudaimonia is activity of the soul in accordance with areté (excellence, virtue, or what it's good for). Eudaimonia is living well and doing well in the affairs of the world.
B. The good of human beings cannot be answered with the exactitude of a mathematical problem since mathematics starts with general principles and argues to conclusions.
1. Ethics starts with actual moral judgments before the formulation of general principles.
2. Aristotle presupposes natural tendencies in people.
C. Aristotle distinguishes between happiness (eudaimonia) and moral virtue:
1. Moral virtue is not the end of life for it can go with inactivity, misery, and unhappiness.
2. Happiness, the end of life, that of which is life's aim, is activity in accordance with reason (reason is the areté or peculiar excellence of persons).
a. Happiness is an activity involving both moral and intellectual areté.
b. Some external goods are necessary in order to exercise that activity.
II. The Good Character.
A. People have a natural capacity for good character, and it is developed through practice. The capacity does not come first--it's developed through practice.


1. The sequence of human behavior raises the question of which is preeminent--acts or dispositions. Their interaction is broken by Aristotle's distinction between acts which create good dispositions and acts which flow from the good disposition once it has been created.
2. Areté is a disposition developed out of a capacity by the proper exercise of that capacity.
3. Habits are developed through acting; a person's character is the structure of habits and is formed by what we do.
B. Virtue, areté, or excellence is defined as a mean between two extremes of excess and defect in regard to a feeling or action as the practically wise person would determine it. The mean cannot be calculated a priori.
1. The mean is relative to the individual and circumstances. For example, consider the following traits:
Defect Mean Excess
cowardliness courage rashness
humility pride vanity
frugal giving liberal
2. The level of courage necessary is different for a philosophy teacher, a commando, and a systems programmer.
3. Phronesis or practical wisdom is the ability to see the right thing to do in the circumstances. Notice, especially, Aristotle's theory does not imply ethical relativism because there are appropriate standards.
4. In the ontological dimension, virtue is a mean; in the axiological dimension, it is an extreme or excellence. E.g., Hartmann's Diagram:


5. Pleasure and pain are powerful determinants of our actions.
III. Pleasure is the natural accompaniment of unimpeded activity. Pleasure, as such, is neither good nor bad.
A. Even so, pleasure is something positive and its effect is to perfect the exercise of activity. Everything from playing chess to making love is improved with skill.
B. Pleasure cannot be directly sought--it is the side-product of activity. It is only an element of happiness.
C. The good person, the one who has attained eudaimonia, is the standard as to what is truly pleasant or unpleasant.
IV. Friendship: a person's relationship to a friend is the same as the relation to oneself. The friend can be thought of as a second self.
A. In friendship a person loves himself (egoism) not as one seeks money for himself, but as he gives his money away to receive honor.
B. The kinds of friendship:
1. Utility--acquaintance
2. Pleasure
3. The Good--endures as long as both retain their character.
V. The Contemplative Faculty--the exercise of perfect happiness in intellectual or philosophic activity.
A. Reason is the highest faculty of human beings. We can engage in it longer than other activities.
B. Philosophy is loved as an end-in-itself, and so eudaimonia implies leisure and self-sufficiency as an environment for contemplation

Iggy... :P


Last edited by Igualmente on Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:27 pm 
Ticas ask me for advice!

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Image.... :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

:shock: ..Ig


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:32 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
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This entire thread is so phucked up! Can anyone tell me the meaning of life ?!?!?! :shock: :?:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:45 pm 
Ticas ask me for advice!

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Eudaimonia is simply an activity of understanding the world as it is and its most basic principles of Life.

One of those Principles of Life is PLEASURE.....

There must be a balance of pleasure in one's life to find fulfillment….

See, it’s just that easy…..


Iggy... :P


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:57 pm 
Ticas ask me for advice!

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:lol::lol::lol::):lol::lol::lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okCTgsbu ... re=related

Now that's enjoying one's own pleaure... 8)

Or you could say...One's own Eudaimonia... :wink:

Iggy... :P


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:30 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
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Location: Referred to the OIG by Mucho Gusto after mysterious fire at his gay night club.
Mucho Gusto wrote:
This entire thread is so phucked up! Can anyone tell me the meaning of life ?!?!?! :shock: :?:


It's 42. Damn, don't you know anything?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:53 pm 
Ticas ask me for advice!

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Spanky wrote:
Mucho Gusto wrote:
This entire thread is so phucked up! Can anyone tell me the meaning of life ?!?!?! :shock: :?:


It's 42. Damn, don't you know anything?


Yes but more important is to know the question:
"what is 6 times 7?" I had to read two DA books to find that out.

That was the most bizarre thread yet. Sounds as if Drama enjoys large words that most people don't choose to communicate with day in and day out. So I dont think he is trying to convey anything to us..... hes just rambling in his monologue(just like Johnny Drama often does). I bet that fine language worked wonders on the putas, only they can truly appreciate it. :shock: :shock: :shock:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:13 pm 
Ticas ask me for advice!

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Whilom whence there was a juvenile drama whom upon arriving home from his latin class quickly descended into his moms basement and started to type on CRT. With the help of his thesaurus and latin book he quickly assembled verbiage that no one could comprehend yet it looked mighty fine he thought, and what the hell afterwards he could lament that he is just misunderstood. Or better yet after mom yelled that he better come get dinner or get the wooden spoon then he signed off that..."fine I'm never to be seen again or post again you indigent puerile plebes".


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:44 pm 
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Hoy doy, what a sweep of vanity comes this way that were to enlard his fat already pride, the whoreson cullionly barbermonger. I will chastise this high minded strumpet! Go rate thy minions, proud insulting boy. Weed this wormwood from your fruitful brain for he is a dreamer, let us say "farewell sour annoy". :lol:


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