www.CostaRicaTicas.com

I know what I want, I would throw away my mongering career ,and
future,for a woman who is great with Ch*ldren, great company, and will
let me come in her mouth.

_________________
I came... I saw... I came

Wit -- good view into that world, thanks. I wouldn't cancel the trip. Sometimes the variety factor that we might feel guilty about wanting is actually an education into the surrounding culture and life of any particular chica we're more interested in. Paradoxical but maybe you need to experience the "many" to appreciate the "one". At least, going into a new place. And maybe there's a balance there, to keep you from doing anything really stupid.

Like we observe in US marriages and divorces: a lot of them rushed into it, not really knowing each other or having had enough experience dating around. And that's in your own language/culture! I would think that "dating around" should be a strong pre-requisite to committing a lot of your life to someone from another culture.

And a chica who's been working in termas for money hasn't got much basis for jealousy of someone going after variety for a different reason, though of course everyone usually takes whatever opportunity they can conjure up to lash out at the other in an attempt to control.

I find the timespan between visits, which is vexing on its own when you have so many "goodbye" nights that become a regular feature with its own traditions, but time between gives opportunities like we're having here to "weather" the sharp emotions of the relationship, and add some realities to your views you might be too snowed by her to see if you were with her daily, and also (in my case) to see what it is I do on my own, in my head.

And also to process some of the disconnects I saw while there, things the romance head want to rationalize away or forget.

And a pattern over 20 years of "distance" romances, then moving there to discover the full realities -- which usually don't include the relationship continuing for very long -- but the place is interesting enough to stick around, no matter what! So that's why I'm not so worried about CR (RIO would be a challenge!) as a retirement goal.

Your post can be mine and many others. Theses women all have their demons. My friend met a Tica here and fell in to the burning ring of fire. In love and this is different. Met her at Key Largo. Of course he gave her money to 'help her out". When it wasnt enough she asked for more and more. Well, I happened to see her with another guy and another. I told him to wise up and be careful. Last night we talked now hes heading back to states heart broken. She apparently played him for some serious money and he regretes this now.. she wont even accept his call and she moved to Jaco until he leaves tomorrow....... gringos please you cannot make a relationship over a 2 week period and at the Key Largo what are you thinking..

Thanks Rusty, We need to hear the truth some times.

Diego writes:


I put that very notion to the test on this last trip. I visited a girl in Belo Horizonte and stayed at her apartment for 3 nights before going on to Rio for 10 days. Keep in mind I met this girl programming in Rio a year ago, and since we've become tight. She wondered aloud why I was staying only 3 nights with her, but going to Rio for 10 nights?

She said, "You don't like that I work at Crystals (strip club) in Belo Horizonte, or that I go a few times a year to Help (7 hour bus ride), but I'm just working. You go with girls because you're safado (horny/promiscuous)." Of course, I denied everything.

I told her not to come to Rio while I was there, I would be busy with "work", and I couldn't take seeing her with another man, for whatever reason. She came anyway, I saw her with another man and when the next day she asked why I was so jealous, I said it was she who was jealous, as I showed her naked pics of other garotas. Of course, I said the two girls I showed her were the result of me seeing her with another man.

HOLY SHIT, DID IT RAIN FURY, OR WHAT? After she got ahold of herself after a 10 minute tirade, she was INCENSED I would compare what she does to what I did. She maintained when with me, it's nothing like the others; that with them it's bam, bam, thank you gringo, and she's off. Me, she invited to her house, talked about a normal life, even about having my baby (right), that I RUINED IT!

I think she came to Rio to see what I was doing (duh) and of course, it was a money-maker during Christmas. But she had ZERO tolerence, both for my inability to understand she had to work, was alone and supported herself (actually bought a condo with cash), and that I would give money to other program girls and phuck around on her - like, why didn't you give the money to me and phuck around with me, you slime ball.

I admit there are degrees of "hard-core-ness" and she's tilting on the deep end, but I don't think it would be any different with a semi-pro. Actually, it'd probably be worse.

_________________
"Don't never trust a woman, till she's dead and deep....One day she'll say she loves you, next day she'll throw you on the street."

"...and if men didn't have this unquenchable desire to have sex with women, then they wouldn't have anything to do with women at all. I certainly wouldn't..."

Oh yeah............. A woman scorned.
Not a pretty sight.......

_________________
You ALWAYS have an option ....... "NEXT" !!!

There is a lot of heavy sh*t in these postings...details of recent "loves" gone wrong...reminds me of an old BJ Thomas song I sang in pianobars MANY years ago...



Not to come off insensitive to my friends feelings on this thread...but...when you hook up with someone, whether in or out of the program...you are combining each participants pain or happiness, emptiness or fulfillment, hate or love for self and others...and in these instances playing in social circles that are not accepted in the norms of either;s cultures/societies. So...we should be surprised when things spin out of control?

After just a few months living in San Jose, I made a firm decision I would never seriously involve myself emotionally with a "working woman". Its probably a barrier similar to race that many experience...we may like/love someone of an opposite race but MOST would not marry "on the other side" because of primarily the difficulty of social acceptance amongst our peers. In this discussion, we are cutting to the very soul of what sex, love and committment means...and from previous experience on these threads, we will probably never get to the bottom of it. Its probably a mixture of simple and complicated that we can never line up with a clean grasp on. Personally I think this is the meaning of our (mens) continual pursuits, flirtations and outright mongering. We are just stretching to understand our own personal selves in relationship to the opposite sex, pursuing passion and meaning. What we always have to ask ourselves is...is this a totally selfish exercise, or do we think or WANT to think we are caring and helpful to the woman we happen to be with at the moment?

The motivations of each party in a relationship is a matter much like "faith". We BELIEVE we know why the other person is with us (love, money, security, other...), but we never truly know because we cannot totally read the mind or past lives of those we are currently involved with. In my limited experience, it takes a long test of time before we really know the motivations or expectations our partner has of us. There may be LAYERS of these that neither party can fully fathom at the time....but some of it comes out in "feelings", Emotions and/or sex itself which are impossible to express verbally. As the old verse goes..."who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men (and women...my add)".

In summary, each of us are imperfect, sometimes selfish, sometimes loving. Our humanity is constantly evolving and it is hard if not impossible to find a love that meets our passion for life every moment of every day. So, some of us settle for the closest relationship we can find to meet our expectations, while others choose to pursue a variety of relationships at all levels without committing to any ONE person. What is the best way to go? Who am I to say. All I can tell you is what works or is working for me...at the moment. Who knows...tomorrow it might change. Without being able to tell you ALL the reasons why...that person for me will not be a known working girl. I just choose NOT to handle the baggage even though the girl may be a beautiful and generally good person. I've tried, I've tasted, and I've moved on...

That's funny -- in the back of my mind, I felt Tman listening in, getting ready to tie a lot of our thoughts together.

One of the questions I asked my cabbie on the way to the airport last trip, How many of the women of San Jose have "worked"? And he thought it was about 7%. I think I asked "of the beautiful" ones, but not sure he answered that or the general population.

What I'm trying to learn in my first year here is whether the casual attitude there in CR, and maybe the ease of sliding in and out of "The Life" there (the 18-year-old in from the countryside for the weekend -- whew! Still steaming here...) makes less of an attitude shift necessary when they decide to "leave the life."

In other words, the "everybody does it" option makes it less of an either/or thing, which might be leading to becoming hardcore and no way back.

Yes, I would be on alert for a long, long time -- it's all about building up trust, mutually -- but -- as I've said before, we haven't done all that well with the ones in our culture who supposedly share all the language/cultural "bridges to understanding" each other.

I guess at this stage, the larger barrier is language and culture (and my tendency to fill in my own imaginings rather than wait for the data) rather than assume the barrier is that someone is "ruined for life" for ever going with Gringos.

I guess I would need to spend more time there, to get to know more who would NEVER go to "work", never think of it under any circumstance, or is it all due to family economics? If you're middle class, you don't take a chance on the status drop? We have very little insight into the feeling of spending your life in complete poverty, and watching big money pass by you so close.

I do wonder how much it does soak in, that life, and maybe never leave. That's part of the conversation I have with the local ladies (benefit of English) when possible, the ones who are bright enough to share thoughts with. I'm not sure they know, either, but of course, they're still in it. And I've never felt that continuing interest to explore with the gringa provider. Maybe the draw of the "exotic Latina" is still pulling hard at me?

I did explore the question once in CR "how do you feel this has changed you?" but it didn't go very far. I think that's why I envisioned getting to know someone all over again, after it's certain there's no more "programming", and maybe going rea-a-a-a-l slow until you really know what you're looking at then.

And yes, I'll bet that throughout history of women and men, the "I want to get out of this life" has been used as an appeal to pry more money out of the simpatico client.

Hard enough figuring things out with any woman, more so in a new culture, country, language, so sifting the "ex-working girl" attitudes out of that soup might be tough. Your advice is probably a good guideline to keep in the forefront of thinking.

Of course, by then, I'm practically living there, and I'll know so much more about the options that you see as a mostly-resident. (Like I said, a big part of it is me falling in love with my potential life in a new place. I've done that before, and I was mostly right to do it in the States. -- I did pass on New Zealand, however )

Y'know what that leaves me with? Enjoy my moods and fantasies as they pass through my life -- the recent ex has been Tica-obliterated from those parts of my memory! -- Make sure the fantasy doesn't cost extravagantly, nothing I can't be proud of doing, in the light of day. Keep an eye open for variety, and enjoy the hell out of whatever moments I have with someone who inspires those other dimensions of feeling.

A chance to understand what I did with so much of my life before, and CR offers the whole spectrum of possibilities for the rest of my life.

I ran across a chica dictionary the other day:

client - A man who pays her each time for sex.

novio - A man who pays her and sometimes gets sex.

esposo - A man who pays her and never gets sex.

_________________
Tonka. (Still Alive and kicking.)

The thing that bothered me about the way this thing ended was the fact that she wouldn't even talk to me. We had agreed that if for any reason we were not going to continue we could just tell the other person and that would be the end of it.

She could have yelled at me when I called. She could have sent an email and told me off.

If Jazz hadn't gotten hold of her I might STILL not know what pissed her off.

On the day we talked about her being so mad at men she mentioned that she had considered a couple times about telling me she didn't want to talk to me anymore. This told me it was probably only a matter of time. She has way too much baggage when it comes to men.

Personally I think she was afraid of getting hurt again and was actually fearful of letting herself fall for a "nice guy". The whole routine about getting upset when I asked about her parents was just a convenient way to end it.

I have 3 ex-wives and I am still on very friendly terms with all 3. This woman wouldn't even talk to me because I asked about her parents?

Strange, very strange.

But I'm OK. Thanks to Jazz, Diego and Tman for your views.

Now where will I travel in 2006? Costa Rica, Colombia, Rio, Philippines? Maybe all four.
Stay tuned.

There's a girl in Rio I've known since the first day I set foot on Brazilian soil. She used to programa but has a German guy sending her money, so she now gets by fine with a part-time regular job, and also doing tour guiding and translations. She also goes to school.

She's been a most valuable asset over the last couple of years, translating my emails, but more importantly, casting perspective on situations and helping me to see how garotas think. She's been there, done that, and offers me advice I can use. I've learned a lot from her.

One thing I've learned is described in one of her favorite sayings; " Girls suck, but so do guys." The underlying theme being, people do what's going to be most beneficial to them, and in the process, hurt others. I sometimes complain how insensitive and two-faced girls can be, and she reminds me the guys are too. Trust? That's a nice concept, but the venue at Help, the BM, and other hot spots, is not conducive. Lie, lie, lie. That's what it's all about. She also points out my way of "hedging my bets" with many girls at once, with the lame justification that it's a way to prevent any one girl from hurting me, is just that; lame.

Girls are constantly being told, "I love you, I love you, te amo, eu te amo", etc. THEY DON'T BELIEVE THE SHIT AND WHO CAN BLAME THEM? Many of the guys are serial liars, sex addicts (like me), two-timers, offering less money... what are they supposed to believe? We're good? Good at what?

Tman, you make good points (as usual), but what if civilian girls had the same rules about dating "players"? First, you'd be out and would HAVE to date hookers, because nobody else would go out with you; second, you'd be lumped in with the worst of your "ilk", even though you're not the worst (are you?) Similarly when you paint a broad stroke and say all women who except money are equal, from the semi'est of girls to the most hardened, you may be passing up a girl who is desirable AND capable of love.

Wit, I feel your pain. Just maybe you should cry in your beer a few days more and then make that plane reservation. VB's approach may be simplistic but he may have a point. Try phucking 10 more, then look for another steady. What else can you do?

Jazz

_________________
"Don't never trust a woman, till she's dead and deep....One day she'll say she loves you, next day she'll throw you on the street."

"...and if men didn't have this unquenchable desire to have sex with women, then they wouldn't have anything to do with women at all. I certainly wouldn't..."

phucking 10 more?

Hell, ONE would be a step in the right direction but it's going to be awhile.

This weekend I purchased an email address off the internet for a beauty in Medellin.

Not only did I NOT get a response but today she had her profile removed from the website!

(as Rodney Dangerfield) "I tell 'ya, I get no respect!"

I'll add one thought, after absorbing Tman's admonitions, and having cleared most of my thoughts out of the cobwebby upstairs (I'm midway between trips -- 3 weeks to SJO -- can ya tell?)

We read early on about the positive Latina attitude toward men, compared with gringas. The appreciation, the good treatment, wanting you to act like a Man and rewarding you for it. The generally unspoiled overall relation that seems closer to our original natures (and yes, we read all the exceptions to that, but they still seem to be basing off the same playbook.)

So WHY latch onto ANYONE who's even partway back toward gringa-hood? She's had the taste of money, had the exposure to Gringos, learned some manipulative tactics, etc etc, you fill in the rest...

We're still so accustomed to the old gringa treatment, that we might not even notice that someone we want to continue on with is feeding us her version of some of that.

And with ANY woman, learned I the hard way you betcha, if you don't PUT A STOP to Bad Behavior FROM THE START, you've got a hard paddle back upstream from where you started with her to get the treatment you want.

So the benefit in T******* is you're starting with that sweetness, with the good ones, and if YOU don't bring in the Spoiledness, she won't catch it anytime soon.

So why trouble with any of 'em with ATTITUDE problems? Put a stop to it fast, walk, go down your phone number list to the next one.

I think that's what Tman probably kept his focus on, and if I remember conversations with him, it proved out for him. The great thing about being there is that WALKING is so easy; you've got so much more leverage if you let yourself keep it, rather than falling into those descending categories that Tonka listed...

Diego...very valid post and observation. To me it is heavily about control...not controlling someone else or even a chica...but controlling what I want and when. If my girls needs were not met, I would not expect her to remain with me. ALL relationships are a 2 way street, and heavily dependent that the couples needs are compatible...in everything from sex to money, romance, what activities you share in common...everything. I have been fortunate to have 3 years now with a Colombiana that gives me MOST everything I want. Hopefully I do the same for her. And if either of us needs more or different, EACH has the freedom and right to pursue it.

I think some of the problems our brethren on this board have at times is...they are too focused on self and what THEY want...or they are lap dogs for what the female in their life wants. Its hard to strike the balance between the two...but it IS póssible. Sometimes when we are in between or without relationships, we all (girls and guys) do too much comprimising so as not to be ALONE. Personally I believe if you cannot bear or learn to be ALONE, you cannot have a truly healthy, actualilized relationship. Normally relationships would then be dependent, or co-dependent (OK, my old psyche classes are coming through here)...with too much fear of loss and rejection to have honest open communication. I think the strongest relationships are those where both parties could walk tomorrow without huge personal devastation...where being together is a welcome daily choice. Marriage and opther forms of committed relationships dont allow much for this.

As for Jazz point on rules for PLAYERS, I understand the point totally. BUT, there is still a big difference in MY mind between PAYING for sex or being PAID for sex. It also DEPENDS on where you emotions lie. I personally have no problem with consensual sex between 2 parties just for sex...if I want it. That doesnt have to affect my regular relationship neccesarily...UNLESS...I feel guilty about it...and if SHE finds out and feels bad about it. Just like we dont tell our loved ones every thought and temptation that comes through our human minds, I dont think it neccessary to share every detail of your personal intimate life with someone you are involved with. Its OK to have some secrets...as long as the intention or long term affect is not to purposely harm another person. This may all sound very rationalized...but hey, isnt that what the mind is for ?

Oh, one more point I wanted to make before...I LOVE the rationale of friends of mine who say I HAVE NEVER PAID FOR SEX. These guys pay more than the rest of us mongers without knowing...dates, buying presents, and in the case of married guys...the emotional baggage of having a mistress or fling on the side is much more dangerous than P4P in my opinion.

OK...over and out for now.

Well put Tman!

_________________
You ALWAYS have an option ....... "NEXT" !!!