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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:09 am 
PHD From Del Rey University!
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Location: NFM--Geezers, cowpokes and the working poor--yeeha!
Redistribution of wealth does not mean you chop off the mountain tops entire to fill in the valleys, to create a smooth field. It does mean having a social safety net for those who need it AND at the same time doing what you can to obviate the conditions that keep people down which in many cases are the downtrodden themselves--for evidence look at the failed effort to radically reform and upgrade the DC school system. It does mean not allowing the intensely smart AND greedy to so completely game the system as has happened in the US--for example why is it that hedge-fund managers pay Federal taxes at a lesser rate than the manager of a K-mart? Because we have the best system of government that money can buy, that's why. Our middle income folks have steadily lost ground in nominal wages and purchasing power since the middle '70's with that money flowing predominantly to the top, and the social safety net for the permanent underclass being under permanently under assault even by the presumed centrists. There is class warfare being waged in the US and it's by the smart/and/greedy against all the rest of us. The poor aren't my classes enemy; it's the system-gamers at the top who are. The poor are just an easy target, just as undocumented aliens are.
Who's fantasy is "One World Order"? Certainly not mine--I celebrate diversity true enough but take comfort in my own culture and ethnicity. No, the "The OWO's" are the leaders of the transnationals who give a rat's ass less where the money comes from as long as they get and keep the majority of it. To believe otherwise is to indulge oneself in the sheerest fantasy--they live in a world that's completely different from ours.
Nobody but nobody I respect wants a 1-class society. And I agree that envy often replaces thought and effective action. The question is, how do we lead those folks into belief and action to improve their lives and society? I don't have an answer, do you?
Michael Jackson was a semi-talented Ch*ld molester who's entire solo career was owed to Quincy Jones. Period. Paragraph.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:43 am 
JazzboCR wrote:
Redistribution of wealth does not mean you chop off the mountain tops entire to fill in the valleys, to create a smooth field. It does mean having a social safety net for those who need it AND at the same time doing what you can to obviate the conditions that keep people down which in many cases are the downtrodden themselves--for evidence look at the failed effort to radically reform and upgrade the DC school system. It does mean not allowing the intensely smart AND greedy to so completely game the system as has happened in the US--for example why is it that hedge-fund managers pay Federal taxes at a lesser rate than the manager of a K-mart? Because we have the best system of government that money can buy, that's why. Our middle income folks have steadily lost ground in nominal wages and purchasing power since the middle '70's with that money flowing predominantly to the top, and the social safety net for the permanent underclass being under permanently under assault even by the presumed centrists. There is class warfare being waged in the US and it's by the smart/and/greedy against all the rest of us. The poor aren't my classes enemy; it's the system-gamers at the top who are. The poor are just an easy target, just as undocumented aliens are.
Who's fantasy is "One World Order"? Certainly not mine--I celebrate diversity true enough but take comfort in my own culture and ethnicity. No, the "The OWO's" are the leaders of the transnationals who give a rat's ass less where the money comes from as long as they get and keep the majority of it. To believe otherwise is to indulge oneself in the sheerest fantasy--they live in a world that's completely different from ours.
Nobody but nobody I respect wants a 1-class society. And I agree that envy often replaces thought and effective action. The question is, how do we lead those folks into belief and action to improve their lives and society? I don't have an answer, do you?
Michael Jackson was a semi-talented Ch*ld molester who's entire solo career was owed to Quincy Jones. Period. Paragraph.

:| :| is this your opinion, or a culmulative report culled on "facts" from the WSJ :| :|


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:32 am 
Srilm wrote:
Jazz,

You make some excellent points. Wealth distribution (my opinion) should be guided by 2 principles.

1. Provide incentives for people to work hard that reward them with scads of cash.
2. Provide a safety net for those who truly, truly need it.

Yes, a 5 billion person "honor system". No wonder it can't work. All it takes is one jacked-up, pole-smoking, selfish jackass to screw it up -- and we got millions.

SR

+1, and must of them are members of this board :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:35 am 
Masters Degree in Mongering!
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I always try to remember the huge role luck has played in my being in the comfortable position in life that I enjoy.

Yes, I've worked hard, but I was born in the world's richest country, in a working class family during a period in our history when upward mobility was more easily obtainable than it is now. The town I grew up in offered a lot of support for a young man with a little bit of natural intelligence and occasional drive. I had the good fortune of several encouraging mentors growing up. I didn't get arrested on several occasions when justice would have placed me behind bars. Luck placed a couple of highly unlikely opportunities so directly in my path that I virtually stumbled into good fortune. I've benefited from a number of government incentives and tax benefits that were not available to those of lesser means. I have been blessed with good health. Despite having been divorced twice, my ex-wives have not really cost me anything.

I think that most people who are fortunate and honest can make similar inventories of things beyond their control that contributed to their well-being in major ways. "There, but for the grace of God, go I."

According to the World Bank, in 1960 the richest 20% of humanity had thirty times as much as the poorest 20%. In 1990 that figure had increased to seventy times. In 2000 the gap was ninety times. We don't yet know the 2010 disparity.

We shouldn't feel guilty about our good fortune, but common humanity dictates action to alleviate the suffering of others--through individual action, through community action and through governmental action.

As far as mongering is concerned, there doesn't seem like there will be any change in the availability of venues for years to come. The specific locations will change. Perhaps the bigger threat will be that with the increasingly improvished middle class in the U.S., the future cohorts of mongers will be more exclusively the truly wealthy who don't give a damn about driving up prices in the various local markets.

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Last edited by El Tranquilo on Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:57 am 
PHD From Del Rey University!
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To continue:

As JazzboCR stated England had a middle-class Spain did not. That middle-class was the excess goods and services I was speaking of. There is much more to the story of England and Spain. The Spanish crown spent most of their money on building an army. And there is the fact that being a very religious country the church was in control of most things. Example who do you think it was who was in charge of distributing the wealth from Central America. Yes that would be the church. Want to guess what the largest some of that money went for. Sorry if that sounds a little political and not economical.

As for investing in pitchforks and torches I'm shortly to become primarily a consumer and no longer a contributor to the economy. It's referred to as retirement. But fortunately I have enough gold buried in the backyard to carry me through my conceivable end.


A real simplified economic model would have the upper class primarily consumers. The lower class the exploited. The middle-class consumers and contributors. A thriving economy would have an overwhelming number of middle-class participants. Our current economic model is definitely top-heavy. Trust me I am no expert just an interested observer but I see that topping out soon and more economic activity moving back to the middle. Wages are stagnant, inflation is nonexistent and the unused labor market is huge. Interest rates are low although loans are still difficult to get. In short a really good time to start a business.

As always just a humble opinion.

Lee

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:20 am 
PHD From Del Rey University!
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Changes are coming, if it is because of wealth or other factors, there will be changes. One thing that I often pointed out about in China and India not being very stable countries in the long run was pointed out in a article in the NY times, For different reason most of our locations will also be affected the the shortage of woman due to changing economics ( no need for large families if you are not working on the farm any more,and other things) , the questions is who among us will still be alive or playing the game in 10-20 years to be affected

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... obal_aging

” Asia will also be plagued by a chronic shortage of women in the coming decades, which could leave the most populous region on Earth with the same skewed sex ratios as the early American West. Due to selective abortion, China has about 16 percent more boys than girls, which many predict will lead to instability as tens of millions of "unmarriageable" men find other outlets for their excess libido..............." this also applies to the rest of south east Asia also, but caused for different reasons, and for other reasons the rest of the third world is also being affected with a shortage of people.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:59 am 
Ticas ask me for advice!
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If they want to equalize the economies of the world, they better hurry cause the end of the world is only a little over 2 years away... :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:02 am 
PHD From Del Rey University!
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if you don't give people a way to make it on their own they will always rely on handouts.
redistributing others hard earned money only makes then situation worse because typically those having their money redistributed are the job providers.
no such thing as a free ride and the very rich will soon be fleeing the US entirely for tax havens.
while the rest of those with anything get burned at the stake. its already happening.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:15 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!

Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 9:33 pm
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Location: Tampa / St. Pete
LaDiablo wrote:
if you don't give people a way to make it on their own they will always rely on handouts.
redistributing others hard earned money only makes then situation worse because typically those having their money redistributed are the job providers.
no such thing as a free ride and the very rich will soon be fleeing the US entirely for tax havens.
while the rest of those with anything get burned at the stake. its already happening.


Yeah, the trouble with socialism is sooner or later you run out of other people's money to spend. :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:33 pm 
Ticas ask me for advice!

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:10 am
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LocoHombre wrote:
Srilm wrote:
Jazz,

You make some excellent points. Wealth distribution (my opinion) should be guided by 2 principles.

1. Provide incentives for people to work hard that reward them with scads of cash.
2. Provide a safety net for those who truly, truly need it.

Yes, a 5 billion person "honor system". No wonder it can't work. All it takes is one jacked-up, pole-smoking, selfish jackass to screw it up -- and we got millions.

SR

+1, and must of them are members of this board :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Takes one to know one :lol: :P

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