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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 11:43 am 
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Steven1 wrote:
... The largest concern I think I have is riding in the airplanes because the air exchange systems are pretty useless on planes and are well known for spreading disease. Ya won't get sick from the air of wherever you go to or be....but you're exposure takes quantum leaps for each flight you take. ...
Steven,
Did you even actually read the article you just cited? Basically it said that the perception that the air exchange systems on planes are pretty useless and are well known for spreading disease is all just a bunch of hoohah. The article looked at the perceptions vs. the facts about aircraft cabin air quality in 4 specific areas including the spreading of disease.

First the perception:
Quote:
Perception
A persistent perception is that there is a spread of disease on modern airplanes due to the recirculation system.

A documented study used to support this perception was the occurrence of an outbreak of infectious disease among passengers of an airplane, following a three-hour delay without the ventilation system operating. In 1979, because of an engine malfunction, an airliner with 54 persons on board was delayed on the ground for three hours, during which time the airplane ventilation system was turned off. The airplane had a 100 percent outside air system, with no recirculation. Within three days of the incident, 72 percent of the passengers became ill with influenza. One passenger (the index case) was ill while the airplane was delayed.
(bolding added by me for emphasis)

Next the facts:
So this urban legend dates back to one unusual incident where the plane's environmental control system (ECS) was not even operating. Given today's climate of heightened concern about the transmission of swine flu, even in the unlikely event that a similar equipment breakdown will occur, it would still seem even less likely that any airline would allow its passengers to be confined in such an environment on the runway for anywhere near that long. Also, if an engine malfunction caused the ECS to shut down while you were already up in the air, you'd probably have much larger concerns than simply catching the flu (like staying up in the air without engine power).

Quote:
Three hours on an airplane with the ventilation system shut off does not reflect proper use of the cabin environmental control systems. Boeing believes that had the ventilation system been operating during the delay, the possibility of other passengers becoming ill would have been minimal. ...

To remove particulates and biological particles from the recirculated air, filter assemblies installed on all current Boeing airplanes contain a high efficiency particulate air type filter (HEPA-type) that has a minimum efficiency of 94-99.97% D.O.P. as measured by MIL-STD-282. A HEPA-type filter is rated using 0.3 micron size particles. To get an idea of this size, the width of a human hair averages 70 microns in diameter. A filter’s efficiency increases over time as particulates become trapped by the filter. ...

The efficiency of the filter to remove .003 micron particles from the air is in excess of 99.9+ percent. Most bacteria (99percent) are larger than 1 micron. Viruses are approximately.003 to .05 microns in size. Test results of a DOT study conducted on 92 randomly selected flights showed that bacteria and fungi levels measured in the airplane cabin are similar to or lower than those found in the common home. These very low microbial contaminant levels are due to the large quantity of outside airflow and high filtration capability of the recirculation system.The recirculation filters used on current Boeing airplanes are similar to filters used in critical wards of hospitals, such as organ transplant and burn units, and to those used inindustrial “clean” rooms. By comparison, filtration systems in typical buildings are not capable of removing microbial contaminants, including bacteria and viruses, from the recirculated air.
(again, bold added for me for emphasis)

Finally the article makes these overall conclusions:
Quote:
Conclusion
The symptoms experienced by flight attendants, such as fatigue, headaches, tiredness, nausea and illness—often attributed to cabin air quality—are more likely due to an interaction of factors that include cabin altitude, flight duration, jet lag, turbulence, noise, work levels, dehydration, an individual’s health and stress. ...

As many recent air quality studies have shown, the cabin is a healthful environment, meeting all applicable safety and health regulations and standards.

This whole issue of aircraft air quality came up after a recent intemperate off-the-cuff comment by VP Joe Biden (what else is new?) which elicited howls of complaints by the airline industry, corrective information by medical experts and others and eventually backpeddling by the VP and others in the Obama administration. To be honest, until I had read about all this incident, the responses to it and began researching the facts, I also shared the same fears and misperceptions as you, the VP and others. Anyway, rather than offer more quotes, I'll close with a link to an article on the "Joe Biden incident" and the responses to it. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=7470281&page=1


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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 6:33 pm 
Masters Degree in Mongering!
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Some people seemed to have missed my point. When I started this thread I said I did not think this virus would be a big international problem. Sure enough most recent reports say it is winding down.

My worry was the panic it might cause.I am taking trips to LV, the DR and CR. I want to be able to get close to many people on these trips. I see many guys have taken the attitude that the virus is not worth talking about so we shouldn't. It is after all a difficult thing to talk about. But as always the panic seems to be real.

On another site (ISG) a guy reported that he heard the HDR was really slow last night and they have received many cancellations. A tica he called up told him to cancel his upcoming trip. This is the thing that I don't want to hear. If this is a trend I might as well cancel myself. That's why I want to know what is going on down there. Yes, the virus dosen't look like a threat as most people didn't expect it to. Put if the panic sets in there might as well be a threat.


Last edited by Lomo on Sat May 02, 2009 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 7:02 pm 
PHD From Del Rey University!
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Prolijo wrote:
Steven,
Did you even actually read the article you just cited?


Yeah, I read it and all I needed to see was the reality the air is "...filtered and recirculated...". That's enuff for me to know that the air quality sux. I already knew it, by the way. And yes, recirculation has been around forever. However, the introduction of "state of the art" is something our wonderful airline industry is not known for here in the USA.

Check out the two authors....they're shills for the industry as is IATA.

I am guilty of not posting a better link....I can't do all the research around here.....and most of the studies are rather dated. Irrespective, here you go:

http://www.aerias.org/DesktopDefault.as ... 5&tabid=81 (and then you need to look to the right hand margin and click on the Airplane Cabin IAQ link...it won't copy directly that I can see....). An excerpt from the data notes:

"As the new planes with recycled air ventilation systems were being phased in, flight attendants' unions began complaining that their members were suffering from allergies and respiratory troubles caused by not getting enough fresh air. When airplanes practice recirculation, there is a higher risk of infectious diseases being spread such as colds and the flu. The number of people actually getting sick from flying in airplanes is rarely noticed because passengers go their own way when they get off the plane. If they do get sick, they feel they are just an isolated case and may not make the link between their illness and the plane trip."

It continues, rather in depth...Prolijo style:

"Bacteria and viruses that get into the air are some of the biggest hazards in airplanes. Passengers are packed close together on planes, which increases their chance of catching a disease from a fellow traveler. A full, narrow-bodied plane fitted with the maximum number of seats may provide as little as 1.5 cubic yards of interior space per person. By comparison, a sold-out indoor auditorium has about 5 cubic yards of space per person. In 1999, a typical flight had 93 passengers and 5 crewmembers. On the average, about five of the passengers had a cold or flu. In an aircraft with seats that are six across, there is a better than 50 percent chance that someone who is sick will be sitting within one row of you...". ETC.



I'll wager the air filtration system I have in one of my homes (electrostatic precipitator +) is better than the best the airline industry has installed.

I'll take the one that is in AirForce 1.....I suspect it's a tad bit better than what Continental's fleet has.....

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." (Benjamin Disraeli). The statement refers to the persuasive power of numbers, the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments, and the tendency of people to disparage statistics that do not support their positions.

Pro...it just makes sense that if you're sitting in a controlled air environment with people for 4 hours or such....you're going to be sharing.....

Oh....and I don't like going into hospitals, doctor's offices, hotels, blah, blah.....I'm anxiety laden....!! :P :P

PS: The above excludes the diesel fumes of downtown San Jose....

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"Actual happiness always looks pretty squalid in comparison with the over-compensations for misery. And, of course, stability isn't nearly so spectacular as instability. And being contented has none of the glamour of a good fight against misfortune, none of the picturesqueness of a struggle with temptation, or a fatal overthrow by passion or doubt. Happiness is never grand."
- Aldous Huxley, Brave New World, Ch. 16


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 9:01 am 
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[/quote]
The CDC has not issued any travel bans. What they have done is recommend that U.S. travelers avoid all nonessential travel to Mexico. [/quote]

I am coming in July. If the same statement was issued for travel to CR, I would still go. I would just consider my trip to be extremely essential for my mental well-being. I think I am going to go out and buy a nurses outfit for a chica and pretend I have swine flu. Symptoms will most definately include extreme erections which can only be remedied by the saliva of a tica (orally administered, of course). She can nurse me back to health.

_________________
my first wingman sent me this, how true

" most of the girls down here, lie as a self defense mechanism and to not have to face the truth, thinking most men couldn't accept them knowing the whole truth. Simpler, they may just want men to think they are as perfect as they want to appear to them, trying to hide what they consider to be the ugly truth about themselves. And I may be reading more into it than is there, but I do believe they consider the basis of the lies to be justified."


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