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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:53 pm 
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Prolijo.........

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Prolijo wrote:
....These various countries have declared public health emergencies not because we have an actual pandemic, but rather out of an abundance of caution to PREVENT that from happening.

I am going to disagree. "Swine" flu is NOT your common, run of the mill influenza and for good reason. It's generally much more virulent with a higher mortality rate taking young adults in their 20's and 30's.


As of today there is no pandemic. My disagreement is with WHY various countries have declared public health emergencies. It's because of the specific disease itself and the human to human transmission. That is almost impossible to contain and the WHO has now made a statement similar to that in that efforts should be to mitigate the disease because containment is impossible. My additional comments were FYI to all readers.

24 to 72 hours and I predict the WHO will raise the level to 5... pandemic stage.

Berk....

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:40 pm 
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That's right. The reason why these various countries have declared public health emergencies is because of an abundance of caution to PREVENT an actual pandemic from happening. And the reason an actual pandemic is POSSIBLE and thus needs to be prevented is because of the virus's ability to transmit from human to human. Duh, I don't really see the disagreement there. If this virus was still only at the stage of animal to human transmission or human to immediate caregiver transmission, we'd still be at Level 2 or 3 and probably wouldn't even be discussing this.

But where we still seem to disagree is where just because its now been OFFICIALLY determined it can spread more easily between humans (as had been expected even before that announcement) still doesn't mean that it is INEVITABLE that it will progress to Regional Pandemic (Level 5) or Global Pandemic (Level 6). And I'm betting that most disease experts would tell you that making such predictions EITHER way with something like the flu is really impossible to do. But maybe you'll get "lucky" and, by chance, it will turn out like you expect.

For it to go to Level 5 there will have to be human to human transmission in more than one country within a region. It is already a “community-level outbreak” in Mexico, but there are no reasons to DEFINITIVELY predict that will happen in another country in the region like the US. As of now, the latest update at the CDC website has 40 diagnosed cases in the US. I heard that there were 3 more diagnosed today in TX and I'm sure that number will go up, but for now and the foreseeable future it is still really small. More significantly, to the best of my knowledge, ALL of those cases were of people who had contracted it during trips to Mexico. As far as I know, NONE have been transmitted human-to-human WITHIN the US. And that would be the critical step to happen, either here or in some country in this region (other than Mexico), for it to go to Level 5.

I'm NOT saying that definitely WON'T happen, but I think there are a number of reasons to be hopeful that it won't, at least not in any really significant numbers. In fact, I think there are several factors making it much LESS likely that it will spread here like it has in Mexico:

1) First of all, unlike with Mexico, we've all been made well aware of the danger BEFORE it has become widespread here. In Mexico, a potential carrier could be anyone in your neighborhood. In the US, any one who has been in Mexico recently and is experiencing any flu-like symptoms is going to be on heightened alert for it and likely will go to AND be able to go into a medical facility where they can get it checked and treated early, BEFORE they've had as much chance to spread it to anyone else. In Mexico, so many people are having symptoms or are fearful of it that the already weak medical system is being overloaded and people are actually being turned away from the hospitals.

2) Now that we're alert to the threat, we'll all be much more careful not to catch it, first of all by NOT going to Mexico, and as the extent of the threat is more evident by avoiding crowds, washing hands more regularly, covering our mouths when we cough, and possibly wearing masks if it really gets that bad and it comes to that. In Mexico, it came to that before the public was even aware that a new more dangerous swine flu was even out there.

3) The relatively few cases in the US are MUCH less severe than the cases in Mexico. In Mexico, most of the so far diagnosed cases are in ICU (while many suspected cases are left untested walking the streets and possibly spreading the disease to others). In the US, only 1 of the diagnosed cases have even needed to be admitted to a hospital. In Mexico, the doctor quoted by you earlier said "that anti-viral treatments and vaccines are not expected to have any effect, even at high doses." With the cases in the US, the CDC website says "Laboratory testing has found the swine influenza A (H1N1) virus susceptible to the prescription antiviral drugs oseltamivir and zanamivir." (Tamiflu & Relenza)

4) I don't know what type of medicine that Mexican doctor was talking about or had available to him, but it may not of been the right ones and even if they were he probably wouldn't have had enough to treat all the people he needed to. From what I understand, the US has a 50 million dose supply of Tamiflu (and, btw, would have had even more if it hadn't been cut out of the stimulus bill by the Repubs). Selective use of that supply only on people who are known to have some form of flu and for caregivers should be more than enough to cover all but the worst possible outbreak of these disease. In fact, there is a debate of whether we should release some of that plentiful supply to help our neighbors across the border.

5) We have a much better public health care system than Mexico, better sanitation, etc. Diseases like this spread more readily in developing countries like Haiti (HIV), Vietnam (Avian Flu) and Mexico than it does in countries like the US with greater resources to fight it and stamp it out before it becomes a large community threat.

Some other important things to realize. This is not the first time swine flu has presented a pandemic threat. The last time was in 1976. By the time it passed, over 400 people had died in the US - one person from the disease itself and all the rest from complications from the vaccine that was administered in response to it. For all of our current government's faults I still have faith that they have learned a lot from the past (and Homeland Security simulations and training relating to disease outbreaks) and should do better than that this time around.

Four hundred deaths from this round of swine flu would still be bad but compare that to the 35,000 deaths we have each year from the regular and much more widespread flu. What about MDR-TB, XDR-TB or UDR-TB? Look how quickly the threats of those much more widespread, deadly and even less easily treatable diseases faded from the headlines after they were all the rage 2 summers ago when Andrew Speaker boarded a plane with one of those forms of TB. Estimates are that there are still 40,000 people infected annually with XDR-TB, and there are as many as 50 million existing cases worldwide. In 2003, there were similar concerns that SARS, a form of atypical pneumonia, would become a global pandemic since it was even more highly contagious than this swine flu we're talking about now. Concerted action by world health organizations successfully averted that, but the disease has not been totally eradicated and there is still the possibility that it could mutate and re-emerge as a global threat. The last example that I'll give is the Avian Flu which first emerged in Vietnam in 2004(?). That has been and still is at this Level 4. In fact, the CDC webpage on that pandemic threat provides a good explanation of all the different threat levels: http://www.who.int/csr/disease/avian_influenza/phase/en/index.html


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:55 pm 
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From what I have gathered is the symptons seem to be the everyday flu with the shitts :oops: I dunno, I have left pecker tracks in several countries, that and being a Plumbing Contractor, I think it would take a bus to take me out 8)

Phuck it! I'm going :D

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:11 am 
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Hey.....at least it's not an EBOLA outbreak...


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:12 am 
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My question is how are the girls dealing with it in CR? are there less BBBJs due to it? This swine flu :roll: can mess up a dudes agenda down there!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:58 am 
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Superman,

Now I think that's an interesting question. Of course, this flu is respiratory and passes by infected people coughing and others breathing in directly the virus, or infected people oughing on things and passing it on to others who touch those things. Last I checked, we don't cough through our dicks and the swine flu is not considered an STI. If chicas were really concerned about catching swine flu through BJ's the more logical precaution would to wash the area that they'd be putting in their mouth first and of course we should already be washing off our dicks after we receive a BBBJ. But all that being said, people don't always react logically and I could definitely see chicas reacting in the way that you describe.

But I'll give you some other ways this may affect us short of any of us actually coming down with this ourselves. Are chicas going to want into crowd situations with all this going on. Going to an MP with a handful of chicas is one thing, but going to the BM means hundreds of chicas and gringos (who may have recently passed through airports where there were travelers from Mexico) all packed tightly into a fairly confined space may not be the best idea right now. On a busy night they pack em into the bar area there like sardines. Will that mean less chicas show up for work and/or will it mean less gringos show up for mongering there? For that matter, will this whole thing, on top of the on-going financial crisis, mean that fewer gringos choose to travel to CR in general and what impact will all those things have on the pricing those who do travel to CR get?

Regardless, of what everyone else is doing is this really the time for us individually to be travelling and putting ourselves into crowded and cramped planes that may be carrying infected passengers? Hopefully, those who are symptomatic will be intelligent and considerate enough to realize that they shouldn't be travelling themselves when they are in that sort of state but there will always be those who will travel sick rather than change their plans or lose out on the money they may have already deposited. Fortunately, the airlines are loosening their rules for refunds for people who had been scheduled to fly to Mexico? Does that also apply to flights to CR or will it eventually if this thing spreads like it is suspected it might?

Finally, whether we get sick ourselves or not or how severe or treatable that sickness turns out to be, this could have some serious impact worldwide.

Mexican tourism was already reeling from security concerns. I've always thought those fears were overblown for the tourist since nearly all the violence down there was between drug gang members or, collaterally, those who live in their neighborhoods, however catching a disease is something that knows fewer such boundaries. This is going to completely kill tourism to Mexico until this thing completely abates and, apart from drugs (and oil which is down in price), Mexico relies heavily on tourism for its revenue. The recession in the US had been causing many illegals back to Mexico but increasing desperation in Mexico could reverse that flow yet again.

How will a more widespread swine flu epidemic (even a mostly non-fatal one) in the US effect our economic recovery? Will it keep even more people out of stores and absent from work or will the fact that most people were already shopping less and many people were already out of work mean that the flu won't spread as much as it would have done?

I think there are a lot of interesting questions one could ask about this swine flu thang.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:25 pm 
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First case of the swine flu has been detected in San Jose Costa Rica. It turns out a young women just arrived from Mexico and started to get flu like symptoms. She has tested positive for the Swine Flu and is currently in stable condition. She arrived on a flight with 92 other people from Mexico.

This virus is quick and deadly, so keep clean and stay home as much as possible.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:14 pm 
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Canadian tour operators cancel tours to Mexico:

http://www.healthzone.ca/health/article/625739

13 confirmed cases in Canada per the article. Westjet, a good alternative to the major airlines has no plans to cancel their flights to/from Mexico.

From the article:

Quote:
There have so far been no deaths related to swine flu reported outside of Mexico, which has been the epicentre of the virus and where 1,900 people are sick and as many as 150 deaths have been linked to the virus.

On Monday, the Public Health Agency of Canada issued a travel advisory for Mexico, warning against all non-essential travel to the country.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:18 pm 
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Swine flu fears this summer coupled with the rainy season will reduce air fair costs to Latin America and Mongering costs as well. Mark my words. Buy your tickets and take tamiflu with you.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:39 am 
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I fly standby so I welcome the swine flu scare. Maybe the plane will have available seating and the girls will accept something less then cein. Health scares are not all bad, depends on your perspective.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:48 am 
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Richards wrote:
I fly standby so I welcome the swine flu scare. Maybe the plane will have available seating and the girls will accept something less then cein. Health scares are not all bad, depends on your perspective.


What we have is a little more than a "health scare", but I do understand your point. I think I'll go to Delta and American's website and check to see how many open seats there are on flights to Mexico City today.

Berk....

P.S. I checked American...... today and tomorrow they are loaded with open seats at 90 bucks one way out of DFW.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:47 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:05 am 
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Costa Rica now has two confirmed cases. One in San Jose and one in Heredia. Both individuals have recently returned from Mexico.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:57 am 
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Thanks ID, Two cases. Both returned from Mexico. NY has cases, just returned from Mexico. Canada has cases. Just returned from Mexico. Damm, this shit has got to be wide spread in Mexico. 18 month old baby in Texas just died. I am glad baby's go straight to heaven.

I ain't got nothing against Mexico. But I sure would not fly there now. I might drive across the border. But not no crowded airport. I hope we Gringo's step up to the plate and help our North American neibors and friends to the south.

The American Red Cross I hope sets up a fund where we can help.

God Bless North America. CR is in North America even if the tags say central.

I got the swine flu shot at a public school about 30 some years ago. Got sick for two days afterwards. Does anybody know if that would make me immune now?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:22 pm 
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Redman69 wrote:
I am glad baby's go straight to heaven.


Only if they have been baptized. :shock: :lol:

Redman69 wrote:

I got the swine flu shot at a public school about 30 some years ago. Got sick for two days afterwards. Does anybody know if that would make me immune now?


According to what I have read the answer is unfortunately NO. This is a totally new strain which has never been seen before so prior vaccinations do not offer any immunity. :cry:

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