www.CostaRicaTicas.com

Good book on the subject is:

http://www.amazon.com/Pan-American-Drea ... 0813334705

Could have been titled "Why are most Catholic and Islamic countries poor while most Protestant countries are rich.

A brilliant book on the same vein:

http://www.amazon.com/Guns-Germs-Steel- ... 0393317552

Could have been titled " Why did Europe invade the Americas instead of the other way around?" The answers of course in the title, but why did they get the Guns Germs and Steel before the rest .

Late to the discussion, but interesting exchanges. One point of comment, maybe contention...



While I like most of us grew up in the USA in a WASP town and neighborhood, reading and accepting all the textbooks taught us, and believing everything i heard from the pulpit of my church...as I grew up I was able to travel, go to college, and get outside of the box I grew up in. I learned that there were many different viewpoints and additional factors to the world and US history than I had been taught in my little society. The hardest parts always were admitting when the new information I learned or observed didnt add up to the preconceptions I had as a Ch*ld or young adult. As I have aged, my worldview has changed or adapted many times to new information. Unfortunately, I find that most of the worlds masses never have or taken the opportunity to travel, get outside their little worlds and examine the bigger picture. Therefore, MOST are ruled by simplistic absolutes that they have never and probably WILL never question. Much of this is hooked into nationalistic, racist or bigoted thinking that in my experience tends to rule the masses. And when many of us start facing the avalanche of questions or doubts about our previously held absolutes, we go numb and retreat into all manner of behaviors...sometimes escapist...sometimes harmful addictions, etc.

My current biggest heartache is going back to my USA roots and facing all the false bravado and simpleton thinking that most people back there, even loved ones, live out on a daily basis. The core concepts are always US and THEM...we the whites and those blacks, coloreds, arabs, jews, wops, japs, on and on...we CHristians versus Muslims, Jews, and atheists...we Americans versus "the world". This isolationist/protectionistic thinking is also now mainstage in our treatment of immigration, terrorism, world religions, and yes...capitalism versus communism or socialism.

The myths to be shattered are that whites are not neccessarily more honest and righteous than any other race in the worlds history has been. As 50Strokes and others have alluded, our white european forefathers were not angels, nor great "Christian" men. They came and destroyed previous civilizations in this hemisphere based on imperialist and religious justifications. Any one we came across who werent educated, Christian, or clothed like we were primarily deemed heathens and infidels, not worthy of human dignity and respect. These same forefathers brought the black slaves to this whole hemisphere in a very short period of conquest. If it were not for the Indians and original natives of the Caribbean being initially hospitable and open...which was usually their human trait...those first whites would have starved, frozen to death etc etc. Instead...once we learned what we needed to survive in the "New World" from these natives, we quickly used our guns and diseases to kill the by the Millions throughout the hemisphere. Then we always found a way to rationalize what we had done in the name of our "God", our government, our King.

Gentlemen...these same traits still rule our world I am sorry to say. Power hungry wolves who want to rule over the sheep still control the guns, money, media and religions that continue the conflict of one mans supremecy over another. Hundreds of years of bitterness and revenge is still in the hearts and minds of people throughout the world...and there is no soon end to the conflict or madness. The Quran, The Bible, THe Torah and other more contemporary writings are still guiding the fight of ideas and ideals that will never come to a common place of understanding and peace.

This will go on until reasonable and rational people can stand as individuals accepting equally all other human individuals of difference. WHen we can seek to understand difference versus trying to convince the other to believe or act just like us...we might BEGIN to have a chance to ease the pain and conflict in our world. We might BEGIN to be at peace even in these Latin cultures where things arent done "our way", but we adjust and blend with those we love around us. We might learn the basic truth of freedom and sovereinty that one mans rights end where another mans rights begin.

Finally...the only answer to this that is rational to me...is to support open trade and boundaries between countries and cultures. Only in this way will plows be more valuable than swords, and the riches of the world have a chance to be distributed more equally and fairly. When people arent starving or living day to day just to protect themselves from their enemies (real and imaginary)...they just might have a chance to make a better life...and live in better understanding of ALL their fellow men.

Yea...I know...I'm dreaming...

PS. Key book for learned reading on some of these topics..."Lies My Teacher Told Me"...by James Loewen.
http://www.amazon.com/Lies-My-Teacher-T ... 656&sr=8-2

_________________
All that a man achieves and all that he fails to achieve is the direct result of his own thoughts...

I love the study of sociology and how different places and peoples developed. It is also the hardest subject to let go of pre-dispositions and be objective. Not sur eit is even possible.

I have lived in many places and cultures bith inside the US and out. I try first to identify the differences. This is the easier part. Then I try to understand their evolution (extremely difficult).

After 16 months I am just getting started on CR vs US.

One concept that comes up is that in general life in CR for the first settlers was relatively easy (compared to other locations) Weather is good, food grows year round, abundant water and not so many pesky natives to fight off. The land was not conducive to large plantations and therefore was farmed by smaller "family farms". This seems to have led to a laid back, life is easy so why try too hard way of life.

I do find a lot of passive aggresiveness in Ticos and I am not sure where it comes from. Perhaps the necessity of fitting in and avoiding conflict builds a reservoir of steam that manifests itself through passive aggression acts like Driving.


Anyway, a few thoughts. Unbeleivably complicated subject.

BKTUNA
I am never going home

I agree with this 100%.

I am not one to advocate reparations for descendents of slaves in the US and other such hand-outs but I wish more people in the USA would understand that our wealth, elevated above those of most any other country, is largely due to exploiting others in the past 400 years. From pushing the natives off their land, taking slaves, paying the desperate immigrants slave wages for difficult and dangerous work, the present economy of this great country was built by taking advantage of the less fortunate.

In my short lifetime I have seen China and India rise to the next up-and-coming world powers. As communications and travel technology improves and makes our world smaller THERE WILL BE A TREND TOWARDS DECREASING AVERAGE WEALTH OF THE AVERAGE RESIDENT OF THE USA. I don’t see how this can be avoided. We can’t keep this up forever.

I don’t forecast gloom, doom, and ruin for this great country but I do feel as if we hit our high point economically already – perhaps in the 1980s – and we will now start to feel a gradual trend towards a leveling of worldwide average incomes – and since we are at the top of the scale (except a few oil-rich states) in terms of income, we will feel this trend more than most. Think about it. The US Dollar is at par with the Canadian Dollar for the first time in 30 years. By my observation, the US Dollar will continue to decline relative to other currencies. Of course the Chinese have billions of US $ in their trade reserves for the sole purpose of propping up the Dollar to keep up the US demand for Chinese goods.

Traveling really opened my eyes to the world and has given me perspective. It is one thing to see the poverty in many parts of the world, but even more powerful to me has been visiting the more affluent countries. The UK for example…They look like us, talk a lot like us, they like the same things we like and are generally a lot like us. Looking a littler deeper, you see public/government building heated only to 59 degrees (F). You see smaller homes, a scarcity of fast food joints, smaller cars, people who WALK…Holy Phuck people WALK places???? In a short trip to the UK (and my family is from Scotland, emigrated to the USA in the 1940s) I realized that if we lived like our UK counterparts did, we’d spend only about 40% of our current cost of living.

Think about it. If you make $100k/year in the USA and have a big house, 2 nice cars, some toys, etc. you will consume that $100k/year pretty quickly. If you commit to live on 40% of that income, you give up the snowmobiles and the motorcycles, live in a 1200 square foot house rather than 3,000 SF, turn the heat and AC down a little, walk to work once in awhile, avoid fast food, and keep the spending under control you can EASILY cut your expenses in half without feeling much of a setback.

We waste A LOT of money in the USA, and it is SAD. The empire that is the USA was founded in 1776. We are barely 200 years old. We are a young empire. More powerful and more established empires have failed. Why do so many Americans assume the longevity of the USA?

Having worked extensively in the UK and Germany we also work a lot harder than they do with a lot less vacation. There is a serious price for all the toys and square footage. On the other hand the Koreans make us look like we are sleeping on the job.

BKTUNA
I am never going home

I am not ready to write off the US just yet.

We are still the place where the best and the brightest from all over the world want to come and to live and work and pursue opportunities. As long as that is the case, we will be king of the hill. I personally think the growth around the world is great.

China has serious political and legal problems, their banking system is a joke. They are great at making junk to sell at Wal Mart, but until they start showing some respect for intellectual properties, there is only so far they are going to be able to go.

India has many ineffeciencies and internal problems.

Europeans just don't want to work like we do.

Crookercr...great observations. Historically, most "empires" and or democracies have had a lifespan of...about 200 years. Most of them in one way or another went through similar gyrations of the USA...conquering and expanding land, adoption of other civilizations to their domain, economic growth and consolidation...leading to laziness and consumerism...leading to weakness and lack of awareness...leading to their demise (OK...so that is a little over simplified ). Many of us I think see this happening in our own lifetimes in first world countries. Obviously, England, Spain and France' powers and influence were cut back severely this past 200 years because they got overextended and lost control. I'm afraid we are now seeing the same cycle in the USA as the world starts pushing back against our influence and empire building. Just the cost of policing the world based on our ambitions is breaking the federal reserve. This cannot and will not last forever. History does repeat itself.

Hopefully we North Americans will wake up and participate more in global opportunities, including better inclusion of "others" into our national and cultural identity. If we continue to retreat to isolationism or protectionist trade...we will find ourselves on the downside of the global economic roller coaster I'm afraid.

_________________
All that a man achieves and all that he fails to achieve is the direct result of his own thoughts...

Some observations:

China and India have more people than anyone else in the world (mas o menos).

China produces many, many products that are sold in this country. To call it all "junk" is not accurate. Much of it is non-technical. Wal-Mart is the largest retailer in the world. As our buying power lessons places like Wal-Mart will only get stronger as people continue to turn to less expensive good. See the connection?

China is a big player in the US economy. They are the ones who are buying up our government bonds. Soon they may OWN the USA.

India is producing more IT and medical people EVERY DAY. They are flooding the USA. IT controls almost everything. Medical personnel are going to be in even more demand as the baby boomers retire.

Individually they are nice people but I am surrounded by them (and personally I'm getting tired of the situation). The corporation I work for hires more Indian contractors than American employees.

They come here with their new wives and immediately start reproducing. When their visas expire they take their money and experience and return to India (if they ever leave. I've worked with some for over 10 years). My situation might not be the norm but I have a feeling it's pretty accurate.

What does all of this mean?
Where are we going as a country and a society?
I don't know but I'm moving south (way south) as soon as I can figure out a way to live and work there. I figure I need to work at least another 6 years. As soon as I can put a plan together I AM OUTTA HERE!

Wit

Come on down Wit...

_________________
All that a man achieves and all that he fails to achieve is the direct result of his own thoughts...

At the turn of the 1900 90% of the job in the US were agricultural. During the industrial revolution of the 1900s all that changed. Now agricultural jobs are nothing jobs that no one one wants.

We are going through a simular transformation now with industrial jobs. If you are educated then you don't want those jobs, they are shit jobs. Manufacturing jobs are going the way of agricultural jobs.

Jobs associated with Manufacturing Consumer products (what I call junk) are low value jobs now. There is more money spent in marketing and advertising (US Jobs) than there is in actually producing the product. Look at Nike. They pay $8 to manufacture the shoe, the marketing, advertising, sales and distribution jobs all associated with bringing that product to market are ALL better jobs than actually manufacturing the product. People are missing that. The value of the product is in the concept and the design, not the assembly. US dominates in that, period!!!

Yes there is a lot of IT jobs going to India, but guess what, all of the companies producing all of the big IT products are in the US. The best and the brightest are all coming here. If you were a brilliant IT professional would you rather live in Bombay to Silicone Valley? Come on, we are still the center of the IT revolution. All of the creativity and new products come from the US.

Yes, China is buying up our bonds. I see that as a GOOD thing. The more they buy, the more invested they are in supporting our economy. If our economy fails, the bonds are worthless and they have no market for the junk their produce (no one but the US is buying that stuff because the rest of the world is not into consumer products like we are).

Has anyone looked at the stock charts for Boeing, Caterpiller, and Cummings lately. We still are the ones that build the big stuff, the stuff that requires the highly skilled employees. Who are we selling that stuff to? China and India and rest of the emerging markets. It is a little know secrect that US exports are at an all time high. Because everyone is using our currency the rest of the world has an investment in support our economy.

By FAR, US workers are the most productive in the world. We produce more dollar value per person that anywhere else, period. As long as that is the case, we are king of the hill.

People talk about how Great Brittan and France aren't what they used to be. So what? Things aren't so bad for the people living there today. I don't understand all this gloom and doom. So what if we aren't the big dog anymore anyway. That does not mean our daily lives are going to change that much. Nobody seems to worry that Costa Rica is not a world power.

To think that England once was the big world power. They had their little island, India, parts of the middle east and North Africa, Australia, portions of the Carribbean, the eastern half of the USA, Canada, Hong Kong....the English just about ruled 1/2 of the world.

Now the Brits are confined to their small island - oh there was the deal with the Falkland Islands a teenager's life ago....

But you see the point.

Too many people in the USA assume the longevity of this great nation.

I don't.

The economy of the Europen Union is bigger than the US. China is keeping US dollars in their foreign trade reserves - ENOUGH TO RUN THE US FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR ABOUT SIX MONTHS !!!

The USA is quickly becoming a little fish. I think it is time to return to the isolationist policy of the pre-WWI days. We simply are no longer head and shoulders above the rest and it is time we quit acting like we are in control.

20 years ago when the US president was referred to as the "leader of the free world" that meant something. There is no phucking way I would agree to that statement today.

Cummings? Sorry but I don't know that name nor could I find a stock listing for them.

Regardless of whomever they are, these three companies together don't really have that much of an impact on the global economy. It's just too big and it's slipping away from us.

The big problem to deal with in the future...OIL! It's going to get ugly out there.

Note to Tman: Get me a job and I'll calm down!

Could it be Cummins? as in the diesel engine manufacturer?

Cummins, yep, that must be it:

Cummins Signs MoU With Vietnam Motors Industry To Create Diesel Engine Joint Venture In Vietnam - Quick Facts
Friday September 28, 2007 11:50:00 EDT

(RTTNews) - Cummins Inc. (CMI) on Friday revealed the signing ofa Memorandum of Understanding with Vietnam Motors Industry Corp. for establishing a 50-50 joint venture to produce on-highway diesel engines in Vietnam. The company noted that the joint venture is contingent on the satisfactory results of a feasibility study, which is expected to be completed in January 2008. Financial terms of the deal were not disclosed.

As per the terms of the MoU, Under the terms of the MOU, the joint venture would take a phased approach to producing Cummins-designed engines in Vietnam. The company noted that, initially, engine kits would be imported for assembly and distribution in Vietnam with local components ultimately being used in production as the supply base in Vietnam develops.

For 99.9999% of the people that live in England, what does it matter?

We get hung up on this stuff and for the vast majority it has no effect on our ability to pay our morgage and put our K*ds in college. Sure England is not a world power any more, but does that really effect the man on the street much one way or the other? Answer: NO!!!!

In the US we are so powerful and so rich, and yet we spend so much time worrying about this stuff and in the big scheme of things what does it really matter? We have an unprecedented level of wealth and a standard of living that has never before been achieved anywhere in world history and we worry about countries these countries that have massive inefficiencies and an uneducated underclass that is larger than our entire population.